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Criminalise Bullying
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One of the reasons Bullies bully, is because they can always get away with it.
Beating seven shades out of them is not even a solution anymore, as you'll then be charged with assault and then taken to the civil court by bully to claim compensation money.
Bullies have free reign in Ireland, especially in schools and workplaces. Most bystanders in Ireland are cowardly and turn a blind eye to them, and pretend its not bullying in order to make sure they are not targeted as well.
To be honest I think the reason that bullies get away with it is that people dont knock lumps out of them anymore. Teachers are powerless to do anything anymore. Young kid's lives have been ended over this. Action needs to be taken imediatly if someone is being bullied and I really dont have a problem with people being beaten to a pulp if it saves a life.0 -
steddyeddy wrote: »To be honest I think the reason that bullies get away with it is that people dont knock lumps out of them anymore. Teachers are powerless to do anything anymore. Young kid's lives have been ended over this. Action needs to be taken imediatly if someone is being bullied and I really dont have a problem with people being beaten to a pulp if it saves a life.
100% agree, we are far too soft on kids who bully these days, the teachers cant do a thing and the stupid mothers are precious and have their "poor Bill" under some stupid made-up condition like Attention Defecit Disorder (didnt exist until recent times when people had an excuse for everything, it was just called being a pr!ck in my day), so the cycle continues. I know adult bullying is more complex but for kids a few slaps to the head and a few digs would sort most of the scum out.0 -
You deny that bullying actually happens then?
No, I'm not denying that bullying actually happens.
But I am skeptical of the extent to which it exists. Bullying has been getting a lot of media attention lately, but I haven't seen any measures that would suggest it's actually increasing (I found a report from the djei that claims it's increasing, but doesn't explain how it determined that, but it was written back in 05); in fact if you look at teen suicide rates, it would seem it's actually declining.
I'm also skeptical that additional laws would help. If you look at something like Brodie's Law in Australia (http://www.justice.vic.gov.au/home/crime/brodies+law/)Why Do We Need Brodie's Law
The introduction of Brodie’s Law means that the criminal justice system is now able to appropriately respond to the most serious examples of bullying in our community.
But there were already laws that the perpetrates of her 'bullying' violated. It wasn't that it's legal to spit on someone, hold them down, and pour oil on them in Australia. I don't think the problem was a lack of legislation against that behavior.
And I'm very much against vague laws, as a mater of principal. A law that says what I can or can't do, that's fair enough. But a law that says I can't do something if it makes someone else feel a certain way? That's pretty hard for me to support the potential for abuse is huge.
Look at this website: http://www.lawstuff.org.au/act_law/topics/bullying/workplace-bullyingWorkplace bullying can also include behaviour that is hurtful but is less obvious. For example:
Deliberately excluding you from normal workplace activities.
Setting timelines that are very difficult to achieve, or constantly changing deadlines.
Refusing to let you take leave even though you are entitled to it.
Seriously? People think this is a good idea?0 -
The problem is that people's current suggestions to deal with bullying is to...bully the bully.
Recent quotes from here:I know adult bullying is more complex but for kids a few slaps to the head and a few digs would sort most of the scum out.I really dont have a problem with people being beaten to a pulp if it saves a life.
Really? Beating children to a pulp? Giving them the power to beat each other up?
When you consider that most bullying comes from people who were bullied to begin with, is that not exactly what's happening already?!? And people really think it's a viable solution?! The mind boggles...
Fantastic research from UCDVet which shows that additional legislation for bullying is a real non-goer. And yet anyone crying out for legislation can't seem to come up with any alternative research that suggests it would be a good idea.0 -
even the uk police have had to rewrite their rules on social media abuse to lessen the chance they'll get involved because its taking up too much of their time0
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I assure you that I know what bullying is. Like I said, schools bring me in to help teach their students what it is and how we can stop it. I didn't just Wikipedia a definition and go on boards for a rant where I postured as if I was going to enact an unworkable campaign.
From your previous examples you made it quite clear that you did not know how bullying is defined. Fyi I did not just "wikipedia" a definition. The definition I gave is the Health and Safety Authorities own definition that is used in their employment guidelines. I am very surprised you are not aware of this. It is you opinion that this is unworkable - many other including the Minister of Justice believe otherwisePlease don't deliberately take my words out of context again. To do so is just to be stubborn and detract from when you don't like your argument being questioned; so you put a different, malicious context on my words. The next time you do it, it'll be reported. I never said that bullying victims had poor social skills. Never. And shame on you for implying that I did, what a horrible thing to do.
Regarding words out of context claim by yourself - this is from your previous postHow do you prove that someone is being excluded deliberately, and doesn't just have poor social skills in ingratiating themselves with others?
That is exactly what you said in response to those that are bullied and making a finding of bullying behavior. I took the meaning of this from the context of what was being discussed. You can threaten to report all you like but to me this interpretation was quite clear and the statement quite abhorrent imo.My question that you could not answer was how do you prove when someone is deliberately being excluded from a group? You can't, and for a bullying victim to take it through the courts could worsen their experience by having horrible things questioned about them (such as whether it was all in their head etc). It would likely be a traumatic experience for someone who has already been through that ordeal.
Yes this is possible to prove - bullying is where such behavior is deliberate, repeated and inappropriate - blaming a persons differences if any as the reason for encouraging or facilitating bullying behavior is looking at the wrong end of the microscope and attempts to excuse such bullying behavior.
It is not the person who is bullied behavior that is in question here -it is the bully. Do you honestly believe in that seeking redress what victims have already gone through would be worse than be provided with an opportunity to seek justice? Individuals can still make that decision - that is their right.
Giving evidence and cross examination happens every day in all the different courts across the country - I fail to see how you would deny victims of bullying such justice on the basis that they will have to give evidence. Yes this may be upsetting but individuals do it - they do it to seek redress and justice for themselves and othersYou're not thinking of these multiple scenarios because, unfortunately, it's you who doesn't see them coming because of your lack of understanding of what you're saying. And now you're just being stubborn and unable to admit that it's a bad idea.
You appear to be a great promoter of recurrent jibes regarding "lack of understanding" Are you claiming that because you were a bully - you somehow have the sole and unique insight into how a longterm victim of bullying actually feels? I have experience in this area and I believe passionately what I am saying And I do not agree with your Bully Centric approach whatsoever.The reason I'm bully-centric on the issue is the same reason the media is Adam Lanza-centric on the Newtown traged.
Glad you cleared that up anywayYou see you spend paragraph after paragraph going on about how bullying makes people feel. The thing is, while it's relevant, we all know how it makes people feel. I know how it does...I was bullied. But that's like trying to drum up discussion about how do we stop mass murders in the US and talking about how murder makes people feel instead of gun control laws: we know murder devastates families. It goes without saying. It doesn't actually help anyone to talk about how the families and friends feel after a murder. It's like writing at length about how someone gets wet when they walk in rain: we get it.
You have ignored the victims of bullying feelings of powerlessness and hopelessness in the current situation and yet you yourself go on at length how the bully may feel aggrieved. That is clearly a case of being blind to the damage that bullying behavior can do and is continuing to doso in the face of no legal redress to stop such behavior.Whereas if you actually look into the head of the people that are behind these various tragedies, you may actually figure out a way to stop it happening again. See also: bullies.
Again - bullying like physical assault is always going to be with us - what we urgently need is a way for victims of this behavior to know that they can seek a means to stop such behavior and that those that do bully will face censure for their actions.Do you have children? Because these laws wouldn't make them 1% safer from bullies. They wouldn't make them 0.01% safer.
Hmm statistics - where did you pull that particlular one from? Bullying behaviour is endemic in this country both in schools, places of employment and elsewhere. It needs to be regarded with the same seriousness as actual assault - only then will there be something that can be done about this form of abuse that destroys lives both children and adults.Why? Because if you understood the nature of bullying, you'd understand that nobody behind it considers their actions as bullying when they're carrying them out. It's only afterwards when they're framed in a certain context that a bully may see it as the rest of the world does (and even then, they may still be in denial).
more of the deep understanding of the bully ( and I do acknowledge you claim you have been bullied too - but one does not excuse the other in my opinion) Those that bully deliberately, persistently and inappropriately are fully aware of their actions. The parent that beats their child may claim they were not fully aware of their actions or may even may be in denial - it does not mean they should not be held criminally responsibleSo what CAN we do? We can get to the bullies and stop it happening to begin with, instead of going your way and LETTING it happen, then just putting more people in over-crowded prisons (which, again, just won't happen).
As I said previously education may have its place here - however where bullying has been determined then the victim needs to know that there is such behavior will be stopped and the persecutor brought to justice.So for all of your posturing about how you want to help bully victims, continue along this path and you still won't have done so. You'll have just wasted your time. Bullying victims will go through the same pain, the laws will be ineffective because the nuances of them (which would need to be proven undeniably) cannot be proved in court, and everything will continue as beforehand.
I again will leave the snide remarks aside. Would you deny justice to those that are physically attacked or hurt? Their are no 'nuances' in bullying or its determination. The opportunity is out there for fair and equitable laws to be passed that will offer victims of bullying recourse to justice. Btw most judgments are not based on being "proven undeniably" but on the balance of probability.Now, if you do choose to reply, please ensure that you reply to the points ACTUALLY made and don't put some horrible, malicious words in my mouth again. That's a disgusting thing to do, given the gravity of the subject and the fact that I, like you, just want to help. Thank you.
I have shown how I interpreted your comments in context of what was being discused. I note that this is an area that you are being employed in and I will suggest that as an ex bully your interpretation and opinions of bullying are blindly skewed towards looking after those that bully.
I personally hope that the victims of bullying will have a sea change in this matter in the form of clear and expert legislation that makes proven bullying behaviour an offence against the person
I really dont believe disgusing this matter or the posting of jibes will help any further understanding with you is going to help tb. What I do see however is that the victims of bullying still have a long way to go before a real understanding of this issue will emerge.0 -
Thbe problem is that people's current suggestions to deal with bullying is to...bully the bully.
Recent quotes from here:
Really? Beating children to a pulp? Giving them the power to beat each other up?
When you consider that most bullying comes from people who were bullied to begin with, is that not exactly what's happening already?!? And people really think it's a viable solution?! The mind boggles...
Fantastic research from UCDVet which shows that additional legislation for bullying is a real non-goer. And yet anyone crying out for legislation can't seem to come up with any alternative research that suggests it would be a good idea.
In my experience bullying stopped when I fought back. A beaten up bully is better than a dead bullying victim.in my view.0 -
steddyeddy wrote: »To be honest I think the reason that bullies get away with it is that people dont knock lumps out of them anymore. Teachers are powerless to do anything anymore. Young kid's lives have been ended over this. Action needs to be taken imediatly if someone is being bullied and I really dont have a problem with people being beaten to a pulp if it saves a life.Wanderer2010 wrote: »100% agree, we are far too soft on kids who bully these days, the teachers cant do a thing and the stupid mothers are precious and have their "poor Bill" under some stupid made-up condition like Attention Defecit Disorder (didnt exist until recent times when people had an excuse for everything, it was just called being a pr!ck in my day), so the cycle continues. I know adult bullying is more complex but for kids a few slaps to the head and a few digs would sort most of the scum out.
:rolleyes:
You both talk about Bullying as if its this new phenomenon. Its been around probably since time began and if anything victims probably received no sympathy during that era from even their own parents if truth be told. If people took your outdated simplistic view then bullying would be far worse today, certainly not better. The era you describe is when a teacher or a priest could beat the sh*t out of a child and not be answerable to no one. You want that to return? You dont think thats bullying?
In order to combat bullying there needs to be consistent monitoring but the facts is the amount of fights that used take place on my old secondary school grounds that teachers were unaware of is just one alarming example of what goes on without people knowing or even being bothered enough to prevent long before it happens0 -
tipp_Gunner wrote: »
:rolleyes:
You both talk about Bullying as if its this new phenomenon. Its been around probably since time began and if anything victims probably received no sympathy during that era from even their own parents if truth be told. If people took your outdated simplistic view then bullying would be far worse today, certainly not better. The era you describe is when a teacher or a priest could beat the sh*t out of a child and not be answerable to no one. You want that to return? You dont think thats bullying?
In order to combat bullying there needs to be consistent monitoring but the facts is the amount of fights that used take place on my old secondary school grounds that teachers were unaware of is just one alarming example of what goes on without people knowing or even being bothered enough to prevent long before it happens
Im actually talking about the victim or victims friends or brother dealing with the bully if possible. I dont think an adult should beat a child.0 -
steddyeddy wrote: »In my experience bullying stopped when I fought back. A beaten up bully is better than a dead bullying victim.in my view.
Bullying comes in many forms. Some bullies can psychologically manipulate the victim to make them feel like the wrong doer and its not just with adults. What if its a girl bullying a guy? You still think beat the sh*t out of her would solve the issue or perhaps the poor male victim should man up maybe thats more in line with your outdated view?0 -
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tipp_Gunner wrote: »
Bullying comes in many forms. Some bullies can psychologically manipulate the victim to make them feel like the wrong doer and its not just with adults. What if its a girl bullying a guy? You still think beat the sh*t out of her would solve the issue or perhaps the poor male victim should man up maybe thats more in line with your outdated view?
I'm saying what worked for me.0 -
steddyeddy wrote: »Im actually talking about the victim or victims friends or brother dealing with the bully if possible. I dont think an adult should beat a child.
Still illogical tbh. What if the victim or his brother are powerless to stop it? Bullying takes place in so many forms that you cant put the answer to the problem down simply to 'giving a few digs back'.
When i say about Adults beating children what i can also mean was that this was the example set to children in times gone by that people can be coerced to do what you want them to by the use violence. If the adults send that message out then the children are bound to think it justifiable and perhaps they even go on to inflict it on their own children because they dont know any better. Then those children perhaps go on to inflict it in schoolyard. You see the cycle created?0 -
steddyeddy wrote: »I'm saying what worked for me.
Fair enough in that scenario it worked but in the greater societal problem the battle is more psychological then physical.0 -
I think in order to conquer bullying, as a society we need to get up of our arses and actually try and figure out what makes each person we deal with on a daily basis tick. We also need to be aware more importantly of what makes us tick on an individual level. That's the only and fairest way we can stop the rot in the future. Perhaps 'a good clip' might work but not in every scenario. The only way fully to know why one person bullies another is to get inside both their heads. Why is the bully being a bully and why is the victim feeling inclined to be a victim?0
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@gozunda:
Here you go again. You can't debate the argument at hand, so you invent an argument on my behalf and look to argue with that instead. I'm looking to deny bullying victims justice now, am I? You're erring on the side of libelous, at this stage.
There is no way to prove the distinction between, say, excluding someone and someone not ingratiating themselves into the group because...again...the nature of bullying is that these actions will be done so very subtly so they cannot be proven, unless you were to somehow read a bully's mind.
The REASON all of the effects that you quote are so powerful is because the bully is capable of making the bullied feel as if they are somehow responsible for their consequences. THIS is what devastates them. THIS is what depresses them. THIS is what causes suicides to happen.
The nuances in between are completely loose and open to interpretation. With physical assault, you punch someone and you've assaulted them. With bullying, you can do any number of actions to someone and have it affect them any number of ways, not all intentional (a bully often won't understand the effect their words have on someone else; they'll be too concerned with their own problems). I could say something to you, not intending to offend, and it wouldn't. But I could say the same thing to someone else and their life experience, tolerance and sensitivity could cause them great distress. If the bully didn't cause A, before saying B, are the effects completely down to the bully? How do you dish out that punishment? Do you punish neglectful parents who caused the child to be passive and short of self-esteem in the first place? Do you punish teachers for not having high enough powers of perception that they didn't realise when a student was left to sit on their own in class?
And if that distinction makes no sense to you, then you are simply not in a position to be commenting or lobbying for any proposals to solve the problem, since you don't have a deep enough understanding of the problems at hand. Your stubbornness and persistence only serves to stagnate any viable solution. That isn't intended as an insult, that's just fact; in the same sense that if you knew nothing about cars, you wouldn't be qualified to be a mechanic.
I am not looking to deny anyone justice. What I seek to do is stop bullying happening in the first instance and, when it does persist, educate bystanders and authorities about the nature of bullying that they can effectively do something about it.
Your plans would not work. They would not help anyone. And, if you do care about the problem moreso than your simply persisting with this debate, you will accept that and not distract anyone from getting behind a REALISTIC solution.0 -
steddyeddy wrote: »To be honest I think the reason that bullies get away with it is that people dont knock lumps out of them anymore. Teachers are powerless to do anything anymore. Young kid's lives have been ended over this. Action needs to be taken imediatly if someone is being bullied and I really dont have a problem with people being beaten to a pulp if it saves a life.steddyeddy wrote: »In my experience bullying stopped when I fought back. A beaten up bully is better than a dead bullying victim.in my view.
Beating them into a pulp is only a possible solution if you get away with it, unfortunately, the shrewd ones (i.e. the one that are most dangerous) will take you to the civil court for doing so, and to the cleaners. Try beating a shrewd manipulating behind the scenes workplace bully to a pulp to teach them a lesson and see how that works out.0 -
@gozunda:
Here you go again. You can't debate the argument at hand, so you invent an argument on my behalf and look to argue with that instead. I'm looking to deny bullying victims justice now, am I? You're erring on the side of libelous, at this stage.
No "here we do not go again"! I took what was said in context. I have given a current definition of bullying so that we can be clear what we are talking about.There is no way to prove the distinction between, say, excluding someone and someone not ingratiating themselves into the group because...again...the nature of bullying is that these actions will be done so very subtly so they cannot be proven, unless you were to somehow read a bully's mind.
Like all offences - witnesses, evidence and testimony are all used to prove that an offence on the balance of probability has or has not been committed. There is no need to read a bullys mind - the courts will decide.The REASON all of the effects that you quote are so powerful is because the bully is capable of making the bullied feel as if they are somehow responsible for their consequences. THIS is what devastates them. THIS is what depresses them. THIS is what causes suicides to happen.
No I completely disagree - and there are many case histories that will show this - those that are the victims of bullying bevahiour feel they have no other avenue of escape, they have no recourse to justice, they have no real means of stopping the bullying behaviour. That is where their helplessness and despair come from. That is why bullying must be made an offence against the person because that is exactly what it isThe nuances in between are completely loose and open to interpretation. With physical assault, you punch someone and you've assaulted them. With bullying, you can do any number of actions to someone and have it affect them any number of ways, not all intentional (a bully often won't understand the effect their words have on someone else; they'll be too concerned with their own problems). I could say something to you, not intending to offend, and it wouldn't. But I could say the same thing to someone else and their life experience, tolerance and sensitivity could cause them great distress. If the bully didn't cause A, before saying B, are the effects completely down to the bully? How do you dish out that punishment? Do you punish neglectful parents who caused the child to be passive and short of self-esteem in the first place? Do you punish teachers for not having high enough powers of perception that they didn't realise when a student was left to sit on their own in class?
Bullying behaviour has already been defined. It is that which is repeated, inapproproiate and deliberate. It is not 'nuances' as you refer to them. A once off saying something is not bullying as has been defined previously. If a person is stabbed in the street and they were on the street because they didn't have a place to live - are you going to claim that them being stabbed was because they didn't previously have a place to live? No - such precursers are specifically excluded in law - so they are immaterial to a person being the deliberate, repeated and inappropriate target of bullying. It is not up to us to determine the punishments - that will be up to the court, the severity of the crime and the impact on the victim. No one but the bully are responsible for their actions - seeking to deny that they do not know what they are doing is disingenuous at best.And if that distinction makes no sense to you, then you are simply not in a position to be commenting or lobbying for any proposals to solve the problem, since you don't have a deep enough understanding of the problems at hand. Your stubbornness and persistence only serves to stagnate any viable solution. That isn't intended as an insult, that's just fact; in the same sense that if you knew nothing about cars, you wouldn't be qualified to be a mechanic.
There you go with that "Understanding" that is uniquely yours because you have been a bully. This somehow qualifies you to give the last word? That is not a valid argument no mater how you put it. Your self proclaimed expertise and denial of any other point of view is risible tbh.I am not looking to deny anyone justice. What I seek to do is stop bullying happening in the first instance and, when it does persist, educate bystanders and authorities about the nature of bullying that they can effectively do something about it.
And what will happen to the victims of bullying whose lives are destroyed through deliberate, repeated and inappropriate bullying? Will we just let them out to dry and pretend they do not exist - well guess what that is what is happening at the moment. Education may have a roll to play - but it will not stop bullying happening.Your plans would not work. They would not help anyone. And, if you do care about the problem moreso than your simply persisting with this debate, you will accept that and not distract anyone from getting behind a REALISTIC solution.
They are not just my ideas - this is under discussion at government level. I am obliged to take "your reality" and replace it one that will hopefully give the victims of bullying redress to prevent bullying from continuing and also to act as a deterent to those that choose to use it to destroy others lives0 -
Can someone define what bullying is?0
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tipp_Gunner wrote: »I think in order to conquer bullying, as a society we need to get up of our arses and actually try and figure out what makes each person we deal with on a daily basis tick. We also need to be aware more importantly of what makes us tick on an individual level. That's the only and fairest way we can stop the rot in the future. Perhaps 'a good clip' might work but not in every scenario. The only way fully to know why one person bullies another is to get inside both their heads. Why is the bully being a bully and why is the victim feeling inclined to be a victim?
Think about the following scenarios in this matter.
Why would a person physically injure another person in an unprovoked attack
Would that victim 'feel inclined' to be a victim of such a crime
Why would a person attempt to rape another
Would that victim attempt 'feel inclined to a victim' of such a crime
Why are the victims of bullying / psychlogical assault / abuse seen as being anymore responsible for the harm that is inflicted upon them than the victims of any other types of actual harm?
We need to make psychological abuse equatable to other similar offences against the person such as that of actual assault. Only then will bullies face the consequences of their actions0 -
Think about the following scenarios in this matter.
Why would a person physically another person in an unprovoked attack
Would that victim 'feel inclined' to be a victim of such a crime
Why would a person attempt to rape another
Would that victim attempt 'feel inclined to a victim' of such a crime
Why are the victims of bullying / psychlogical assault seen as being anymore responsible for the harm that is inflicted upon them than the victims of any other types of actual harm?
We need to make psychological abuse equatable to other similar offences against the person such as that of actual assault. Only then will bullies face the consequences of their actions
Define psychological abuse.0 -
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Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »
Define psychological abuse.
Pychological abuse is synonymous with the term bullying and is now considered to be a more definitive term to describe the behaviours exhibited by those that use 'bullying behaviour' towards others.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_abuse
If you don't like wiki as a source (it is the most concise one out there) - there are many more detailed academic papers on this available0 -
So far, the only links you are providing is Wikipedia, though. Where are all these 'studies' you speak of? Where is your solid research and analysis as a basis for asserting that this is a good way of tackling the bullying problem? You can't provide anything that anyone here could with a 2-3 minute Google search...which leads me to believe that that's all the research you've put into it.
I don't believe I have a 'unique' understanding. Let me make this very clear: I believe that you Gozunda, specifically, don't understand the problem. Like I said, trying to assert yourself as an authority is like someone who doesn't drive trying to be a mechanic. It's laughable and you're embarrassing yourself with each Wiki source you cite.
There are thousands of people out there who do understand this problem. From schools to psychologists to those working in the government to those who've personally experienced it on both sides (not just read articles in the paper and heard second-hand stories).
The people that I deal and have dealt with throughout the course of my work on the matter agree: the punishment model we have is reaping no reward. Right now, schools generally suspend offenders. That doesn't stop them, even my own personal experience backs that up. Why do they struggle? Because it's nigh-on impossible to prove conclusively in many cases. Because they can't understand why this behaviour happens, because there's not the information out there. Not every case falls conveniently into the definition you've Googled, Gozunda. In fact, most don't. Hence, nuances. Bullying cases are each unique with regard to bully and bullied. It's not like assault in that you can prove it as soon as a scar is left. The scars here aren't visible.
So what everyone out there wants (including the bullying victims, especially the victims) is for it just to stop, or at least to have a chance to stop it. This way offers a chance at that. Yours offers more dead weight to a system that has already proved ineffective. And nothing on Wikipedia will tell you otherwise.0 -
Beating them into a pulp is only a possible solution if you get away with it, unfortunately, the shrewd ones (i.e. the one that are most dangerous) will take you to the civil court for doing so, and to the cleaners. Try beating a shrewd manipulating behind the scenes workplace bully to a pulp to teach them a lesson and see how that works out.
This is happening, though. This is what bullying is!
The difference is that those bullied are made to feel so weak and vulnerable by their initial bully, that the victims tend to lash out on those they perceive as weaker than them. This gives them the sense of empowerment they were missing when picked on.
Your solution to bullying is only to continue the cycle of bullying. Well done.0 -
Like most things in life I believe bullying occurs because there is a reward to it. I think it makes bullies feel better to bully for a variety of possible reasons. One possible one is that it raises their social status amongst their peers to bully, another could be that they simply find it fun to annoy people.0
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Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »Can someone define what bullying is?
From the The Health and Safety Authority Website
http://www.hsa.ie/eng/Topics/Bullying_at_Work/#WhatisBullying
"What is Bullying?
Bullying in the workplace has been described in various ways. The Health and Safety Authority’s definition is that it is:
"repeated inappropriate behaviour, direct or indirect, whether verbal, physical or otherwise, conducted by one or more persons against another or others, at the place of work and/or in the course of employment, which could reasonably be regarded as undermining the individual‘s right to dignity at work."
An isolated incident of the behaviour described in this definition may be an affront to dignity at work but as a once off incident is not considered to be bullying.
Detailed information is given in the Code of Practice for Employers and Employees on the Prevention and Resolution of Bullying at Work 2007"
Examples of behaviour that may constitute bullying are as follows:
Purposely undermining someone;
Targeting someone for special negative treatment;
Manipulation of an individual‘s reputation;
Social exclusion or isolation;
Intimidation;
Aggressive or obscene language;
Jokes that are obviously offensive to one individual by spoken word or email;
Intrusion by pestering, spying and stalking;
Unreasonable assignments to duties which are obviously unfavourable to one individual;
Repeated requests with impossible deadline or impossible tasks0 -
Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »Like most things in life I believe bullying occurs because there is a reward to it. I think it makes bullies feel better to bully for a variety of possible reasons. One possible one is that it raises their social status amongst their peers to bully, another could be that they simply find it fun to annoy people.
In the workplace, the purpose of bullying is to hide the incompetence of the bully.
Jealousy (of relationships and perceived exclusion therefrom) and envy (of talents, abilities, circumstances or possessions) are strong motivators of bullying.0 -
So far, the only links you are providing is Wikipedia, though. Where are all these 'studies' you speak of? Where is your solid research and analysis as a basis for asserting that this is a good way of tackling the bullying problem? You can't provide anything that anyone here could with a 2-3 minute Google search...which leads me to believe that that's all the research you've put into it.
That link was for a poster in reply to a general query on what was psychological abuse - you got a problem with that?I don't believe I have a 'unique' understanding. Let me make this very clear: I believe that you Gozunda, specifically, don't understand the problem. Like I said, trying to assert yourself as an authority is like someone who doesn't drive trying to be a mechanic. It's laughable and you're embarrassing yourself with each Wiki source you cite.
Yeah I get it - no one understand this problem except yourself and your unique insight because you were a bully. FYI there was one wiki ref to another poster - I referred you to the HSA whom you apparently had never heard off. You have used that rather daft mechanic analogy before - so you are saying you are the mechanic and no one else is - give it a break. Your opinions on bullying appear to be deeply flawed and insulting to those who have been victims of such abuse. At least try and understand that. Or do I detect more than just simple disagreement here.There are thousands of people out there who do understand this problem. From schools to psychologists to those working in the government to those who've personally experienced it on both sides (not just read articles in the paper and heard second-hand stories).
thank you - I am we'll aware of such expertise in this area. Btw you have already given your cv and explained how you were a bully and were somehow wronged by this, are now employed to explain how you once bullied others. It does not make your opinions all encompassing. I have experience in this field, have talked with researchers and legal people and have direct experience With victims of bullying. But I have not been a self proclaimed bully so I presume you are therefore saying that I am not therefore qualified to make representations in these matters. This bizarre logic is so twisted - it is not even worth commenting on.The people that I deal and have dealt with throughout the course of my work on the matter agree: the punishment model we have is reaping no reward. Right now, schools generally suspend offenders. That doesn't stop them, even my own personal experience backs that up. Why do they struggle? Because it's nigh-on impossible to prove conclusively in many cases. Because they can't understand why this behaviour happens, because there's not the information out there. Not every case falls conveniently into the definition you've Googled, Gozunda. In fact, most don't. Hence, nuances. Bullying cases are each unique with regard to bully and bullied. It's not like assault in that you can prove it as soon as a scar is left. The scars here aren't visible.
Btw I am interested in the victims of all types of bullying including in education, employment and other areas. There are you with your strange 'nuances' again. I have explained how these are immaterial to proving that psychological abuse has taken place. bullying is alrady provable in civil actions so the prodecures are already there. Ignore this if that is your wish. However If you are going to continue to go on and deny the victims of such abuse the right to justice then you clearly have no concern for those have been bullied. You also you show a lack of any real comprehension as to the nature if bullying with such reference to 'scars' - The scars of psychological abuse are all to obvious to those that work and live with the victims of such abuse. I realise you have no wish to listen to any other reasoning but your own - best of luck with that.So what everyone out there wants (including the bullying victims, especially the victims) is for it just to stop, or at least to have a chance to stop it. This way offers a chance at that. Yours offers more dead weight to a system that has already proved ineffective. And nothing on Wikipedia will tell you otherwise.
It is the present system that has failed victims of psychological abuse. The advocated softly softly approach that ignores the damage done to those that are bullied. It is now time for this to stop
That's is why we need urgent legislation to prevent this behaviour and provide redress to those who have already been damaged by the lack of recognition this abuse has caused.0 -
You seem to be getting increasingly agitated, to the point that you're suggesting that I'm somehow still a bully (HUH?!?).
The wheels have come off your argument with this paragraph anyway, where you say that the nuances of bullying are 'immaterial' and that the scars are 'obvious' to those around victims. I wonder if Erin Gallagher's parents would have said that the scars were obvious to them? Usually the only time those around bullying victims learn of it is when things are either too late or getting towards that stage.There are you with your 'nuances' again. I have explained how these are immaterial to proving that psychological abuse has taken place. If you wish to continue to harp on - do and best of luck. But you show a lack of any comprehension as to the nature if bullying with such reference to scars. The scars of psychological abuse are all to obvious to those that work and live with the victims of such abuse
After this blip, I believe it's clear for all to see that you don't understand the subject well enough to be any kind of an authority on it. Not wanting to agitate you any further, as your personal attacks are increasing and this isn't the place for any petty attacks of that nature, I'll leave it there. I've made my point.0 -
You seem to be getting increasingly agitated, to the point that you're suggesting that I'm somehow still a bully ..,
The wheels have come off your argument with this paragraph anyway, where you say that the nuances of bullying are 'immaterial' and that the scars are 'obvious' to those around victims. I wonder if Erin Gallagher's parents would have said that the scars were obvious to them? Usually the only time those around bullying victims learn of it is when things are either too late or getting towards that stage.
After this blip, I believe it's clear for all to see that you don't understand the subject well enough to be any kind of an authority on it. Not wanting to agitate you any further, as your personal attacks are increasing and this isn't the place for any petty attacks of that nature, I'll leave it there. I've made my point.
Again leaving your jibes and the snide comnents aside - how about just giving it a break. You evidently see bullying as a niusence at best. Imo You have shown little or no concern for the victims of bullying in your opinion but have decried at length about how bullies are badly treated. So yes I get what you are saying. I have avoided the trap of your snide attacks and dubious comments regarding mechanics, nuances and special 'understanding' because you have stated you were previoudly a bully. That's all lovely but it does not give you the authority to disregard all other possible direction.
At the end of the day what is important is that the legislation on these issues is already been looked at government level.
I would suggest that you leave your own experience as a bully aside and take some time to find out about some of the real experiences of those that have been suffered abuse at the hands of bullies and what they would like to change.0 -
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You evidently see bullying as a niusence at best. Imo You have shown little or no concern for the victims of bullying in your opinion but have decried at length about how bullies are badly treated.
Huh?! How does writing articles, doing interviews, helping with research and going to schools to do anti-bullying work all in my spare time suggest to you that I see all of this as a 'nuisance'?
It's insane how you would get everything you've just said from everything I've said. You don't seem to even understand my perspective, much less the subject on a broader scale. Had you read it, you would also understand that I am also a bullying victim, so also know exactly what goes through their minds. Again, not a subject that you can Wikipedia.
Let's leave it, yeah? You seem to be losing the plot a bit now.0
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