Black economy/ fake goods/ dole cheats & reporting

relax carry on

Can't really speak from a DSP point of view but do people honestly believe that Revenue and the DSP know everything about everyone in the country at all times?
Both have checks and balances in their respective systems to tackle fraud and the Black Economy but they aren't perfect. Both also have limited resources so any assistance is appreciated.

Reporting a suspected case of fraud etc is just that. You are just "reporting". You aren't making the decision to investigate the matter; Revenue or the DSP do that.
For example, while reports made to Revenue have to be followed up, they are not looked at in isolation. Revenue uses a scoring system to determine your risk using multiple sources of information. If they didn't they'd be pretty much in the dark.

We as a society really have to get past this childish notion of "sticking it to the man" and "don't rat" If we accept that as a society that all must pay their share, from the smallest to the largest, then if you suspect something, then report it.

Madam_X

If someone is e.g. an electrician and work has dried up/theyve lost their job so they need to claim social welfare, and the occasional nixer is made available to them, they'd be foolish not to take it IMO. Same people who'd criticise that would be the ones saying they're a drain sitting at home all day.

miss_shadow

Every single person I know who is on the dole is scamming it. Not one person is not going by the rules...
I'm Working away to pay for the childminder who also claims!
My mate has two kids with her fella, he lives with her but gets rent allowance to rent a flat which is not used so they can both claim!

Tombi!

Stop going about ratting; we're not 10 years old in school. If you don't think you should report anyone ever, fine.
I could be wrong about reporting and the likes but if someone is already declaring the work their doing and stuff, the dole won't tell you and even when they investigate the welfare still won't let you know what happened.
The only way to find out is to ask the person directly. So those of you saying "I know she/he doesn't report it", did you actually get proof from the person themselves?

Anyway, I know a delivery driver (not personally) that has a kid, pays child support and works. He doesn't tell the dole he works. He actually said that he doesn't tell them he works because it'd be mean less money for nights out. Would I report him if I knew his name and all? I dunno. Maybe.

But when people are so blatant about being able to get so much stuff from the welfare through lying and so on, yeah, report them in an instant.
If you're trying to get more things that you don't deserve and you're openly bragging about it then you really don't deserve it.

flutered

many seem to forget that many unemployed cannot get the dole, for instance if their other halfs earn more than 400 a week, so because someone is unemployed and gets a nixer does not automatically mean that they are guilty of fraud.

Truley

A few of my friends who are unemployed or on CE schemes that sometimes sell art and crafts at farmer's markets on the side. They pay so much to hire the market stalls more often than not they're making féck all anyway. I would never begrudge someone doing something skilful and productive and the few bob they might get from it. The tax office would probably penalise me for wasting their time with my petty complaints.

Rabidlamb

The black economy means I can pay my unemployed neighbour €200 a week to mind my kids instead of the €320 a week the creche were quoting.
This means I can afford to go to work & pay taxes.
It means that she can keep paying her mortgage.

It's an Irish solution to an Irish problem.

Madam_X

Oh and the people in comfortable jobs and with no financial worries who say they'd go through all the hassle of declaring for a bit of cash work here and there on top of their dole if they fell on hard times... are big huge liars.

srsly78

Rabidlamb wrote: »

The black economy means I can pay my unemployed neighbour €200 a week to mind my kids instead of the €320 a week the creche were quoting.
This means I can afford to go to work & pay taxes.
It means that she can keep paying her mortgage.

It's an Irish solution to an Irish problem.

It 's a short-sighted selfish solution, look at Greece to see where this line of thinking leads.

Fighting Irish

HeyThereDeliah wrote: »

Everyone tries to justify it but fraud, dole cheats, minding kids not declaring it, single mothers etc its all wrong regardless of how anyone tries to justify it, those of us who are working are paying tax etc and have to manage on what we earn.

but but tbu what about bertie ahern!!!!!1

d9oiu2wk07blr5

Truley wrote: »

A few of my friends who are unemployed or on CE schemes that sometimes sell art and crafts at farmer's markets on the side. They pay so much to hire the market stalls more often than not they're making féck all anyway. I would never begrudge someone doing something skilful and productive and the few bob they might get from it. The tax office would probably penalise me for wasting their time with my petty complaints.

The rules allow CE participants to engage in other part-time work....they are doing nothing wrong.

burgermasters

people are just trying to survive in most cases and should be left alone its the state that put them there at the end of the day can't stand it when people get reported for the sake of trying to survive these so called reporters need to get a life and not say so much attention to other peoples life's.

keithclancy

Rabidlamb wrote: »

The black economy means I can pay my unemployed neighbour €200 a week to mind my kids instead of the €320 a week the creche were quoting.
This means I can afford to go to work & pay taxes.
It means that she can keep paying her mortgage.

It's an Irish solution to an Irish problem.

Your just paying your 'unemployed' neighbour twice.

1. With the 200 euros / week they get minus the service rate of VAT (Which your paying again through your wages.

2. With the Social Welfare money and benefits that your neighbour gets.

Your neighbour is more than likely better off than you as they get 200 quid a week cash in hand, dole money, medical card and don't have any requirement for liability insurance or VAT.

Nice.

Rabidlamb

srsly78 wrote: »

It 's a short-sighted selfish solution, look at Greece to see where this line of thinking leads.

Selfish ? . . . . yes
Illegal ? . . . . not my end, it's up to her to declare

but in a country of zero enforcement you have only your morals to guide you.
Play it straight & you're taken for a chump.

In a country where none of the architects of our downfall have seen the inside of a prison I feel no shame for my actions.

Relatively speaking our arrangement is positive on the state coffers.

SEPT 23 1989

Rabidlamb wrote: »

Selfish ? . . . . yes
Illegal ? . . . . not my end, it's up to her to declare

but in a country of zero enforcement you have only your morals to guide you.
Play it straight & you're taken for a chump.

In a country where none of the architects of our downfall have seen the inside of a prison I feel no shame for my actions.

Relatively speaking our arrangement is positive on the state coffers.

here here

Ray Palmer

pmcmahon wrote: »

I know a Lad and his dad who sell newspapers out of their boot outside my local church where i buy the sunday papers every week. The father is on social welfare and the son is in college.They stand there sleet,rain or snow freezing their balls off for 5 hours every sunday morning for what the father describes as "tax for the car" and the student "lunch for the week".

If these are the type of people who should be reported then fook the lot of you to be frank.

Great I am sure the local newsagent sees it exactly the same too. I mean he pays rent, insurance, tax etc... Some guy funding his child's education is fair enough newsagents are notorious for having no living expenses or children.
Nixers are great too. No insurance for the person working in your house. It isn't like they could sue you. Child minding is great too as kids never have accidents. Businesses are only charging you tax not any other expenses that protect you.
Fake goods are grand too they don't use unsafe materials or treat their employees badly. Children are good at fine detail due to their little hands.

Any extra from sw is fine it goes back into the economy when I buy fake goods off friends. Getting some selected items from the shops at a discount from my friend who has a bit of a habit.

Don't let reality impact on the belief nobody gets hurt by your own choices in life.

RainyDay

Anyone wrote: »

The one most common tax/welfare cheat I detest is single mothers who are actually living with their partner. I dont report them, but I am very tempted to.

I detest a social welfare system that incentivises people to stay separate, rather than forming a logical family unit.

northernpower wrote: »

A girl lives beside my parents, my parents own their house but hers is council, all paid for. She has 2 children to different fathers, the father of the youngest lives with her but isn't on the residency so his income isn't considered when she is getting her allowances for housing, children, unemployment etc..

I'm curious as to how you have such exact detail of her social welfare claims. Have you seen her forms, or what?

pmcmahon wrote: »

I know a Lad and his dad who sell newspapers out of their boot outside my local church where i buy the sunday papers every week. The father is on social welfare and the son is in college.They stand there sleet,rain or snow freezing their balls off for 5 hours every sunday morning for what the father describes as "tax for the car" and the student "lunch for the week".

And you genuinely believe what they tell you about "tax for the car" and the student "lunch for the week"

keithclancy wrote: »

Your just paying your 'unemployed' neighbour twice.

1. With the 200 euros / week they get minus the service rate of VAT (Which your paying again through your wages.

2. With the Social Welfare money and benefits that your neighbour gets.

Your neighbour is more than likely better off than you as they get 200 quid a week cash in hand, dole money, medical card and don't have any requirement for liability insurance or VAT.

Nice.

Indeed, and he is also making it much more difficult for the honest creche owner to survive.

UDP

davet82 wrote: »

when they start at the top, i'll report from the bottom.

This attitude is everything that is wrong in this country.

davet82

UDP wrote: »

This attitude is everything that is wrong in this country.

i disagree :P

Red_Wake

davet82 wrote: »

i disagree :P

And you'd be completely wrong.

You're holding others to higher standards than you hold yourself.

Not unique to Ireland, but common here, and not just amongst the ruling classes.

davet82

Red_Wake wrote: »

And you'd be completely wrong.

You're holding others to higher standards than you hold yourself.

Not unique to Ireland, but common here, and not just amongst the ruling classes.

of course there of a higher standard, sure isn't that why they get paid more, get more leniency in our courts and so on... monkey see monkey do

Celly Smunt

RainyDay wrote: »

And you genuinely believe what they tell you about "tax for the car" and the student "lunch for the week"

well considering they have **** all papers in the back of the car and sell one day a week,they'd be lucky to get about 30 euro each,so yes.

SEPT 23 1989

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Its takes a special breed to pick up the phone and rat & squeal on their fellow citizens:D

Fair play to those that do some of these parasites are what is ruining our country.

Celly Smunt

Deleted User wrote: »

Fair play to those that do some of these parasites are what is ruining our country.

Ever hear of divide and conquer?

SEPT 23 1989

Deleted User wrote: »

Fair play to those that do some of these parasites are what is ruining our country.

This country has been ruined but not by single mothers and blokes doing nixers

keithclancy

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

This country has been ruined but not by single mothers and blokes doing nixers

Ah sure why not just commit insurance fraud too, sure that doesn't hurt anyone and the bankers did far worse.

UDP

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

This country has been ruined but not by single mothers and blokes doing nixers

Everyone should be held to the same standard no matter who they are or how much they earn. Its the "ah sure, what harm." attitude that has ruined this country and constantly holds it back.

Celly Smunt

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Great I am sure the local newsagent sees it exactly the same too. I mean he pays rent, insurance, tax etc... Some guy funding his child's education is fair enough newsagents are notorious for having no living expenses or children.


.

well considering the local newsagents is a 15 minute walk off,he wouldn't get the business anyway due to the majority of the customers being elderly.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

The "Black Economy"... lol.

Nixers are fine to be honest, have been around forever and I wouldn't have an issue with anybody doing a nixer. Social welfare fraud is another thing, and I don't mean cohabiting either.

How can you be expect the citizens of Ireland to abide by the law when the leaders themselves are neck deep in corruption. Start at the top I say, don't be bullying the little man making an extra few pound.

keithclancy

Alexandra Disgusting Treeless wrote: »

How can you be expect the citizens of Ireland to abide by the law when the leaders themselves are neck deep in corruption. Start at the top I say, don't be bullying the little man making an extra few pound.

Corruption ... b

Visit anywhere in Asia, Africa, now thats corrupt.

I know someone that went into the bank in Italy and they said "What savings" ... they were just 'gone'

Not lost in an investment or something .. just disappeared