Celtic Gladiator VI "Day of War"

RoboRat

Couldnt be arsed in fairness. Took a look at some of their stuff and they remind me of youth defense placing facist where abortion would be.

You're right Pablo, I wish I didn't.

But I find it incredibly ironic that a group who's main profile pic has a load of people wearing balaclavas sitting on a wall which they have destroyed with graffiti calling people who partake in MMA brain dead thugs?!

Roar

You almost have to admire the bollocks printed in that star article above

"scores of teens who make up the core of Ireland's MMA Fans".

Oh right, yeah. MMA is just a fad for teenagers. Cheers for clearing that up.

Tom.D.BJJ

I've been thinking about my stance on this issue and to be perfectly honest I'm still not sure. I would support the right to freedom of expression, but not to the point where that can be used as a shield to allow displays of hatred. I guess it all comes down to if his fighting can be seen as a display of hatred. I now don't think it can, but i'm also aware that his fighting could have been a beacon of sorts to similar types.

Stuck between a rock and a hard place, but i think the right decision was to pulll the fight.

RoboRat

I've been thinking about my stance on this issue and to be perfectly honest I'm still not sure. I would support the right to freedom of expression, but not to the point where that can be used as a shield to allow displays of hatred. I guess it all comes down to if his fighting can be seen as a display of hatred. I now don't think it can, but i'm also aware that his fighting could have been a beacon of sorts to similar types.

Stuck between a rock and a hard place, but i think the right decision was to pulll the fight.

Have to say that I am of a like mind to you Tom. I abhor racism and fascism but I also cannot stand keyboard warriors and the PC brigade.

Life if life and you cant believe in freedom of expression, just as long as it doesn't differ from your beliefs. I also believe in second chances and that people can do things that they regret.

I don't know much about this bloke but I keep seeing pics of his old tatts being posted yet none seem to be posted of them since the reworking. A lot of the pics IMO seem to be really trying their best to affiliate him to Neo Nazism - working as security at a Neo Nazi gig/ doing a seminar that involved a known Neo Nazi/ drinking with a guy who is a member of a Neo Nazi band. Don't get me wrong, they are damning and will cause aspersions to his character and rightly so, but its not enough for me personally to make a definitive judgement on his character as say that he is a Neo Nazi. Yes there are other pictures of him onstage that are a bit more sinister but yet it keeps gnawing at me that Irish people will sing IRA songs and people will listen to openly racist rappers but it doesn't make them a terrorist or a racist.

I think he really needs to sit down and make a decision, if his past is behind him then he needs to openly reject Neo Nazism, distance himself from anything remotely involved with it and completely cover the tatts.

In saying all that anyone who is a racist, fascist, homophobic etc can piss off and cop themselves on.

darced

This post has been deleted.

riffmongous

RoboRat wrote: »

You're right Pablo, I wish I didn't.

But I find it incredibly ironic that a group who's main profile pic has a load of people wearing balaclavas sitting on a wall which they have destroyed with graffiti calling people who partake in MMA brain dead thugs?!

I'm not an AFA fan (I originally had them liked on facebook but I removed it after I read a bit more about how they operate) but as far as I gathered (you can check their website) the point of the graffiti is to cover up rascist or neo-nazi graffiti that was already there, not to destroy the wall.

RoboRat

I'm not an AFA fan (I originally had them liked on facebook but I removed it after I read a bit more about how they operate) but as far as I gathered (you can check their website) the point of the graffiti is to cover up rascist or neo-nazi graffiti that was already there, not to destroy the wall.

Just saying... like.

riffmongous

RoboRat wrote: »

Just saying... like.

I know but the grafitti was there already there, their point was to cover up the offending graffiti while they wait for it to be cleared off, I dont agree with a lot of their things, fighting thugish behaviour with more thugish behaviour is definitely not the right way to go about things, but in this case I at least recognise their intentions.

To try to stay on topic, re Puhakka, if he really is serious about getting away from his past then that's what he needs to, I don't think you can ask for 2nd chances while wearing tshirts of a band that take their name from a Hitler Youth slogan.

CuriousG

Tom.D.BJJ wrote: »

i'm also aware that his fighting could have been a beacon of sorts to similar types.

In all fairness though, I agree with what most people have said specifically robo rat, but if there are as many of these 'types' that afa ireland page is leading to believe (I'm not sure either way, just going by what I looked at) surely, if a meeting of these types was wanted that bad it would happen regardless of this fight???


A lot of people love Niko and do not even think twice about politics or do now know or care about them.

I would love to know AFA opinion on a fighter such as Muhammad Ali, who has openly declared he wants segregation between the races, or Jeff Monson for example, who also has controversial communist beliefs ( a regime and ideology ALSO responsible for deaths of millions, before anyone tries to defend it. You cannot condemn one and support the other, it is nonsensical) with displayed tattoos.

I don't see any heat around these people, rather they are praised by afa and others.

A bit hypocritical in my view, I don't know much about them, but I had a first look at their fb page and it isn't something I would 'like', in my opinion, seems very hypocritical that they hate judging etc yet will not let a man into the country based on them disagreeing with his beliefs.

DeadlyByDesign

Read some of their views on MMA. For such enlightened individuals there are some that are really narrow minded

CuriousG

DeadlyByDesign wrote: »

Read some of their views on MMA. For such enlightened individuals there are some that are really narrow minded

'It's good to see him banned, but the idea of promters of *cage fighting* being some kind of moral guardians is pretty ironic. They pay freaks to batter lumps out of each other for entertainment.

Still, I suppose there needs to be an outlet for *tough guys* who aren't gay AT ALL to get all hot and sweaty while grappling with other men.'

So tolerant and loving.

' we will physically oppose the far right in whatever guise they take'


Not sure what to question more about this whole thing, the hypocrisy, or the fact an OPENLY "MILITANT" organisation think they have, and are allowed have, the moral highground??????????? What is going wrong with this world?




'Would you lay the same insult at a boxer or wrestler? Also your comment about not "being gay at all", I presume you are in fact 12, and are jumping on the anti facism bandwagon so you can appear cool in front of your mates. Seems to you it is ok to bandy about homophobic terms but anything facist is a no no. That my friend is a load of bollox.'

This post sums up my newly found feelings for afa.

The first encounter and I already dislike them as a group. First impressions etc..

riffmongous

CuriousG wrote: »

'It's good to see him banned, but the idea of promters of *cage fighting* being some kind of moral guardians is pretty ironic. They pay freaks to batter lumps out of each other for entertainment.

Still, I suppose there needs to be an outlet for *tough guys* who aren't gay AT ALL to get all hot and sweaty while grappling with other men.'

So tolerant and loving.

' we will physically oppose the far right in whatever guise they take'


Not sure what to question more about this whole thing, the hypocrisy, or the fact an OPENLY "MILITANT" organisation think they have, and are allowed have, the moral highground??????????? What is going wrong with this world?




'Would you lay the same insult at a boxer or wrestler? Also your comment about not "being gay at all", I presume you are in fact 12, and are jumping on the anti facism bandwagon so you can appear cool in front of your mates. Seems to you it is ok to bandy about homophobic terms but anything facist is a no no. That my friend is a load of bollox.'

This post sums up my newly found feelings for afa.

The first encounter and I already dislike them as a group. First impressions etc..

There's at most 4 or 5 comments expressing negativity to mma on their page and AFA themselves have repeatedly said they have nothing against MMA, I asked them myself regarding the comment you quoted above, I think its a bit disingenuous to blame them for the comments of a few idiots on FB.

And surely everyone has the moral highground when it comes to nazism?

magicherbs

must be some grudge against celtic gladiator mma?

riffmongous

magicherbs wrote: »

must be some grudge against celtic gladiator mma?

Jeez I dont want to sound like an ambassador for AFA because I dont agree with almost everything else they did besides this but they said they were contact by people from Poland and have the emails to prove it

laoch na mona

CuriousG wrote: »

or Jeff Monson for example, who also has controversial communist beliefs ( a regime and not let a man into the country based on them disagreeing with his beliefs.

in think afa is anarchistic or at least anarchocomunist by communist i guess you mean Stalinism which was a very autocratic system in no way related to anarchist views
but thats off topic who do ye reckon would be a good opponent for murch now??

CuriousG

riffmongous wrote: »

I think its a bit disingenuous to blame them for the comments of a few idiots on FB.

And surely everyone has the moral highground when it comes to nazism?

That argument could come from both sides to be honest. AFA are kind of known (as an organisation) to pinpoint a few people and expose their details, do whatever they can to publicly shame them etc, based on the fact they don't agree. I have never seen (maybe I am wrong) that been done to them, every other normal person in this country just wants to live and let live. Niko did not come here screaming his views, he stated he renounced them and offered to cover all tattoos up. If that is not enough from a grown man who has the right to do what he wants IN HIS PRIVATE LIFE, then I don't know what to say.

No. Everyone has their own right to believe anything they want. That's life. It may not be right, but it's only fair.

In regard to above, judging by their facebook/website, I don't think they are even sure of what they are themselves. Much less anyone else.

The point of the matter is, anyone that doesn't agree with AFA is put on a witch-hunt (whether they are a 'fascist' or not). From what I gathered, anyone that has any views AT ALL leaning away from them and towards the right even slightly is a 'fascist'.

Richy06

Whatever about the AFA, I like how Peter Irving sums the situation up.

http://powerhousemma.ie/peter-irving-gives-his-reaction-to-the-niko-puhakka-fight-being-pulled/

Definitely covers the main points and pretty much reflects my own point of view on the whole situation. Definitely worth reading up on the likes of Blood & Honour also, I remember reading an expose that BloodyElbow did afew years back after someone noticed the Neo Nazi link in their images.

TF1975

RoboRat wrote: »

Anyhow, the fight is off but its worth taking a look at the AFA's page and what some of their 'supporters' think of people who watch or partake in MMA. For all their huff and puff they are quite narrow minded themselves.

AFA Ireland has nearly 8,000 'supporters' on FB. Obviously not everyone will like MMA.

There's active members and supporters of AFA (as opposed to keyboard supporters) active in MMA, Muay Thai, BJJ, Boxing in Dublin, Cork and London.

MMA/Martial Arts anti-fascist club in London (Black Rose):

http://xrayspectator.wordpress.com/2012/03/05/black-rose-martial-arts/
http://www.soundthealarm.org.uk/black-rose-martial-arts/

Italian MMA/Martial Arts anti-fascist club:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nc0TkowznMs

There's lots of MMA antifa clubs in Eastern Europe and Russia as well. They bloody need the training with so many violent attacks (and murders) by Nazis:

No Surrender (2010): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsB-boYMaQ4
Kiev 2011: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq88uebvg6Q

TF1975

CuriousG wrote: »

I would love to know AFA opinion on a fighter such as Muhammad Ali, who has openly declared he wants segregation between the races, or Jeff Monson for example, who also has controversial communist beliefs ( a regime and ideology ALSO responsible for deaths of millions, before anyone tries to defend it. You cannot condemn one and support the other, it is nonsensical) with displayed tattoos.

Wow, what an uneducated comments about Monson.

He's an libertarian socialist (i.e. anarchist) and very open about this.

http://news.infoshop.org/article.php?story=20060307113654831

http://www.freedompress.org.uk/news/2012/02/29/jeff-monson-anarchist-mma-uk-seminars/

Anyone with a basic understanding of (left-wing) politics knows the massive differences between libertarian socialism and state communism.

The USSR (as well as Nazi Germany) were involved in the crushing of the anarchist movement in their respective countries.

You can say what you like about anarchism or anarchists but they certainly were never involved in the "deaths of millions" and to link Monson with that is doing him (and his politics) a great disservice.

TF1975

RoboRat wrote: »

I wonder who tipped the AFA off about this fight and the fighter involved, its hardly main stream stuff? Could it have been someone from the MMA community? Surely not!

Last summer, Polish anti-Fascists with links to the MMA community got in contact with AFA first followed soon by an Irish contact who used to train MMA but now does BJJ.

TF1975

RoboRat wrote: »

But I find it incredibly ironic that a group who's main profile pic has a load of people wearing balaclavas sitting on a wall which they have destroyed with graffiti calling people who partake in MMA brain dead thugs?!

The AFA FB page nor anybody involved in the group said anything like that. Get your facts right.

TF1975

CuriousG wrote: »

'It's good to see him banned, but the idea of promters of *cage fighting* being some kind of moral guardians is pretty ironic. They pay freaks to batter lumps out of each other for entertainment.

Still, I suppose there needs to be an outlet for *tough guys* who aren't gay AT ALL to get all hot and sweaty while grappling with other men.'

So tolerant and loving.

' we will physically oppose the far right in whatever guise they take'


Not sure what to question more about this whole thing, the hypocrisy, or the fact an OPENLY "MILITANT" organisation think they have, and are allowed have, the moral highground??????????? What is going wrong with this world?




'Would you lay the same insult at a boxer or wrestler? Also your comment about not "being gay at all", I presume you are in fact 12, and are jumping on the anti facism bandwagon so you can appear cool in front of your mates. Seems to you it is ok to bandy about homophobic terms but anything facist is a no no. That my friend is a load of bollox.'

This post sums up my newly found feelings for afa.

The first encounter and I already dislike them as a group. First impressions etc..

That's like reading something on Boards.ie and disliking the forum because of what one person said on it.

There's over 7,900 'supporters' of AFA on FB. Of course you're not all of them are going to be MMA fans.

To reliterate, that quote is from an individual posting on their page not AFA. As expressed before, there are lots of active members and supporters of the group involved with MMA and other martial arts.

Yourwellcum

TF1975 wrote: »

Last summer, Polish anti-Fascists with links to the MMA community got in contact with AFA first followed soon by an Irish contact who used to train MMA but now does BJJ.

Well its funny that the anti-racism polish guys that I train with that ACTUALLY know this guy say that he is being wronged by what is said about him. This added to the guys own statement.

So do I believe guys that I know to be genuine people and that I trust or believe some website which seems to spout as much hatred as those it opposes.

Me thinks its an easy decision.

RoboRat

The AFA FB page nor anybody involved in the group said anything like that. Get your facts right.

Well they may not have said exactly that but there were several posts on their page insinuating such... and before you say that they are not AFA members, how would I know who is an AFA member or who isn't, they are posting on an AFA page.

Hardly credible seen as its on th star but i gues people who have a intrest in this sport this would the paer for them

It's good to see him banned, but the idea of promters of *cage fighting* being some kind of moral guardians is pretty ironic. They pay freaks to batter lumps out of each other for entertainment.

Still, I suppose there needs to be an outlet for *tough guys* who aren't gay AT ALL to get all hot and sweaty while grappling with other men.

These events are inviting to the type of people who would be attracted to Nazi thinking. MMA, UFC etc is inhumane, i worked at a couple of events before and was shocked at the hysteria people got themselves into at the sight of a man on the ground getting battered. Highly questionable why people are in to this in such high numbers.

Although there may be individual members from AFA who train in these sports I think Ciaran is referring to a broad section of the audience. There are definitely parallels with the blood-lust on show in a Roman Colosseum.

Who says the brains all get beat outta you if you fight for a living? This dude is proof of the lie, lol! Nice going, Mr. Irving!

regarding MMA - new gladiatorial bollox - but fair play to the bloke who told him to **** off-Nazis do not deserve recognition!!!

In fact I find an increasing ignorance amounts MMA practitioners these days.. If they truly want to experience Martial Arts, ways like Shaolin GongFu and QiGong is a good place to start the rest is incomplete and in this case corrupt!!

I think its ironic that some people who support the AFA think that we are thugs; at least we step into the ring with rules to fight and innocent bystanders are not caught in the crossfire. But then again, the AFA support 'activists' who go into a restaurant to start a pitched battle... I am not saying that they are wrong to fight the guys but there is a time and a place and innocent bystanders should never be put at risk: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/suburbs/tinley_park/chi-5-plead-guilty-in-antiracist-attack-at-tinley-park-restaurant-20130104,0,3711102.story

I think this pic says it all really

RoboRat

Last summer, Polish anti-Fascists with links to the MMA community got in contact with AFA first followed soon by an Irish contact who used to train MMA but now does BJJ.

Really? was his name Marty McFly or Doc Brown? The fight was only announced in November...

bjj-fighter

RoboRat wrote: »

Really? was his name Marty McFly or Doc Brown? The fight was only announced in November...

Did they not publicly sign him to a contract during the summer? I remember them putting up a picture signing with Niko long before the fight was announced, it was when I first found out about his Neo-Nazi connections. But I don't think there was a big deal made about it at all.

Richy06

bjj-fighter wrote: »

Did they not publicly sign him to a contract during the summer? I remember them putting up a picture signing with Niko long before the fight was announced, it was when I first found out about his Neo-Nazi connections. But I don't think there was a big deal made about it at all.

Yup. I remember me and you commenting on it at the time on FB that he has Neo Nazi ties, in fact.

TF1975

RoboRat wrote: »

Really? was his name Marty McFly or Doc Brown? The fight was only announced in November...

It was announced back in July 2012:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=433057316744863&set=a.104968779553720.2378.100001217956537&type=3&theater

Get your facts right!

Xlami

Any chance a moderator could please move this thread to the politics or spirituality section of the site please because it's had **** all to do with MMA for about two weeks now.

TF1975

RoboRat wrote: »

I think its ironic that some people who support the AFA think that we are thugs; at least we step into the ring with rules to fight and innocent bystanders are not caught in the crossfire. But then again, the AFA support 'activists' who go into a restaurant to start a pitched battle... I am not saying that they are wrong to fight the guys but there is a time and a place and innocent bystanders should never be put at risk:

I respect what you're saying, particularly in regard to not wanting to see innocent bystanders getting hurt in a direct action. No one in AFA would disagree with you. However, the fact remains that anti-Fascists in Chicago are facing severe jail time for that attack so AFA, in an appreciation behind the ideals of solidarity, offered them online support.

The comment about 'rules' and a good clean fight in a 'ring' are completely thrown out the window when to comes to fighting neo-Nazis. Everyone knows that.

Fascists, like bullies in the playground, look to the control the streets by violence and intimidation. In the last 20 years, they've been behind the murders of at least 23 anti-Racist activists in Denmark, Germany, Catalonia, USA, Sweden, Italy, Russia, Czech Republic, Spain and Brazil.

More:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.307615435965446.73622.192377537489237&type=3

That's not counting the hundreds of immigrants, gays, journalists etc. in those respective countries.

You can't fight 'fair' with Nazis or settle political differences with them in a ring.