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Celtic Gladiator VI "Day of War"

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    #92
    El Guapo!
    Registered Users Posts: 12,433 ✭✭✭✭El Guapo!


    Midleton Thai wrote: »

    To put another slant on that, it could also be used to the advantage of the mma community as a whole - work with the media and let them know that clubs etc will not work with or support this promotion as a result of them supporting having this particular fighter on their show.

    In an ideal world that would be how it'd work. But you know what the media are like. There's no way they'll put a positive spin on this. They'll do anything to tear the sport to pieces with negative, inaccurate journalism filled with outright lies and baseless "facts" about injuries and deaths in the sport.
    The Joe Duffy brigade will have a field day with this.


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    #93
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Dean09 wrote: »
    In an ideal world that would be how it'd work. But you know what the media are like. There's no way they'll put a positive spin on this. They'll do anything to tear the sport to pieces with negative, inaccurate journalism filled with outright lies and baseless "facts" about injuries and deaths in the sport.
    The Joe Duffy brigade will have a field day with this.

    I know, unfortunately, that's true, but that is exactly why the rest of the community need to come together and take a stand against the fighter and promotion (who seem hell bent on bringing him over despite the vast majority of peoples feelings on it).


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    #94
    GRMA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    I understand people are having some success in contacting the hotel, bit more pressure and they will pull the plug I reckon


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    #95
    GRMA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    Don't forget to contact city west guys


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    #96
    nino1
    Registered Users Posts: 826 ✭✭✭nino1


    I rang citywest hotel to voice my concerns and they are also concerned.
    I'd say a few more calls and they might do something about it


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    #97
    00benski
    Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭00benski


    The guy shouldn't even be allowed into the country never mind fight here. And this organisation who have him on the card seem to be a bunch of fffing cowboys..


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    #98
    pablohoney87
    Registered Users Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭pablohoney87


    00benski wrote: »
    The guy shouldn't even be allowed into the country never mind fight here..
    Your basis for this?


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    #99
    RoboRat
    Registered Users Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭RoboRat


    Great to see that there are so many people who have never made mistakes - must be nice to be perfect

    I don't know the bloke, nor do I know much about Neo Nazism to be honest, but he has apologised for his past and his tattoos plus he has offered to wear a rashie if people so wish. He has publicly distanced himself and more importantly renounced the Neo Nazi movement so I can only take that at face value.

    I know that I have made mistakes in my past but people have been kind and considerate enough to look past them and see that they were mistakes and errors in judgement, hence why I am willing to look beyond his past and take his word at face value that he is no longer affiliated with Neo Naziism.

    I also personally don't think there is any place on this forum for this thread. MMA is a sport and this forum should only deal with the sport. Political or religious viewpoints should be kept as a separate matter and in their respective forums.


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    #100
    pablohoney87
    Registered Users Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭pablohoney87


    I mean you cant ban someone from entering the country simply because of their political views. Does anyone else see the irony here?


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    #101
    Tom.D.BJJ
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,387 ✭✭✭Tom.D.BJJ


    pablohoney87 wrote: »
    I mean you cant ban someone from entering the country simply because of their political views. Does anyone else see the irony here?

    Are you sure? The constitution protects freedom of expression, but only to a point. There is also the Prohibition of Incitement To Hatred Act.


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    #102
    bjj-fighter
    Registered Users Posts: 863 ✭✭✭bjj-fighter


    It's not just entering the country, it's giving him a public platform, with tattoos like his, and to earn money in our MMA community. It's legitimizing a movement like theirs! The man is clearly lying in his statement, he is a still a prominent member of the Neo-Nazi scene in Europe judging by the pictures that AFA have released.


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    #103
    RoboRat
    Registered Users Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭RoboRat


    Are you sure? The constitution protects freedom of expression, but only to a point. There is also the Prohibition of Incitement To Hatred Act.

    He could be fined or at worst detained. I am nearly positive he cant be stopped from entering the country as he is an EU citizen. If he wasn't and required a visa then it may be different.


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    #104
    pablohoney87
    Registered Users Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭pablohoney87


    Tom.D.BJJ wrote: »
    Are you sure? The constitution protects freedom of expression, but only to a point. There is also the Prohibition of Incitement To Hatred Act.
    So you suggest arresting him the second he sets foot on Irish soil for have some tattoos which he has agreed to have covered while he fights?
    Dont get me wrong I definintely wont be going to watch him fight and if he is on the show it will be an even longer time before I attend a celtic gladiator show. But until he announces his beliefs/intentions of hatred in public he is still an EU citizen perfectly entitled to enter and work in the country.


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    #105
    Tom.D.BJJ
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,387 ✭✭✭Tom.D.BJJ


    pablohoney87 wrote: »
    So you suggest arresting him the second he sets foot on Irish soil for have some tattoos which he has agreed to have covered while he fights?.

    I didnt suggest that. I am merely pointing out that freedom of expression in Ireland is a falsehood.


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    #106
    GRMA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    look at the pictures, he has not disassociated with it, he has not apologized, he has not covered his tats, his letter basically said he never meant to offend anyone

    Seen as you say you are not familiar with neo nazism I get where you are coming from and I believe that if you do a bit of research about it you will be of the same opinion as myself.


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    #107
    pablohoney87
    Registered Users Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭pablohoney87


    Tom.D.BJJ wrote: »
    I didnt suggest that. I am merely pointing out that freedom of expression in Ireland is a falsehood.
    Sorry for the leading question. Allow me to rephrase it.
    What do you suggest the authorities do about it then? As the promoter doesnt seem to have any issues with him bein on the card.


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    #108
    Tom.D.BJJ
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,387 ✭✭✭Tom.D.BJJ


    pablohoney87 wrote: »
    Sorry for the leading question. Allow me to rephrase it.
    What do you suggest the authorities do about it then? As the promoter doesnt seem to have any issues with him bein on the card.

    I don't think there is anything the authorities can do. However i think the pressure being put on the venue will either lead to the event being cancelled or the fighter in question removed from the card. It's a sad state of affairs that Celtic Gladiator need to be forced to do the right thing here.

    I dont agree with the no harm, no foul attitude some are taking. Through various pics the fighter has clearly been shown as still supporting the Nazi ideals which he claims he no longer holds.


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    #109
    pablohoney87
    Registered Users Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭pablohoney87


    Tom.D.BJJ wrote: »
    I don't think there is anything the authorities can do.
    Which was the point I was making when it was said he shouldnt be allowed into the country.
    Wasnt me who brought the constitution into it :P


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    #110
    RoboRat
    Registered Users Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭RoboRat


    I have looked at the photo's and they all are uploaded and labelled by AFA. If I am to take the AFA at their word as to when the photo's were taken, then being fair I must also take Puhakka at his word.

    I am not arguing that he seems to associate or have associated in bad circles but I would think that publicly denouncing Neo Nazism would not be the safest thing to do so I have to take him at his word.


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    #111
    GRMA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    RoboRat wrote: »
    I have looked at the photo's and they all are uploaded and labelled by AFA. If I am to take the AFA at their word as to when the photo's were taken, then being fair I must also take Puhakka at his word.

    I am not arguing that he seems to associate or have associated in bad circles but I would think that publicly denouncing Neo Nazism would not be the safest thing to do so I have to take him at his word.
    Why would AFA lie?
    AFA like people who have renounced neo nazism.

    Plus they tell you were they got the pics from, its clear cut that they are not fibbing about the dates


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    #112
    pablohoney87
    Registered Users Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭pablohoney87


    GRMA wrote: »
    Why would AFA lie?
    AFA like people who have renounced neo nazism.

    Plus they tell you were they got the pics from, its clear cut that they are not fibbing about the dates
    Not accusing them of lying. But they certainly havent had a great record of getting their facts straight.
    Like when they posted up powerhouse mma's contact info with regards to celtic gladiator


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    #113
    cowzerp
    Registered Users Posts: 10,549 ✭✭✭✭cowzerp


    To add my 2 cents, the fact public opinion does not bother them is worrying

    I think it's to late now to win over the fans by removing him now, they've messed up this 1 and underestimate public outrage.

    Rush Boxing club and Rush Martial Arts head coach.



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    #114
    Tom.D.BJJ
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,387 ✭✭✭Tom.D.BJJ


    pablohoney87 wrote: »
    Not accusing them of lying. But they certainly havent had a great record of getting their facts straight.
    Like when they posted up powerhouse mma's contact info with regards to celtic gladiator

    Or the web designers details. They need to direct the arguments at the right place, rather than spraying everyone wildly.


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    #115
    TF1975
    Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭TF1975


    Tom.D.BJJ wrote: »
    Or the web designers details. They need to direct the arguments at the right place, rather than spraying everyone wildly.

    AFA didn't post the web designers details. Someone posted it as a comment on a thread on AFA's page. Big difference. They've since been removed.


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    #116
    RoboRat
    Registered Users Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭RoboRat


    GRMA wrote: »
    Why would AFA lie?
    AFA like people who have renounced neo nazism.

    Plus they tell you were they got the pics from, its clear cut that they are not fibbing about the dates

    I have looked at the photo's and there are photo's of him singing onstage wearing a blood and honour vest (looking hammered), drinking in a bar beside a guy wearing a white power band t-shirt, modeling MMA gear and also in a gym with a load of other lads, one of whom is a Neo Nazi... the rest of the photos are of that said individual.

    One of the photo's says July 2012 and seems to be from the exact same night as another which says Nov 2012. The rest of the photo's IMO don't show him engaging in Neo Nazi activities he might have ended up at a gig or maybe he is a Neo Nazi and went there... I don't know the bloke so I can't comment but I think that we all make mistakes and he has stood up and denounced Neo Nazism publicly.


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    #117
    TF1975
    Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭TF1975


    pablohoney87 wrote: »
    Not accusing them of lying. But they certainly havent had a great record of getting their facts straight.
    Like when they posted up powerhouse mma's contact info with regards to celtic gladiator

    Posting the Powerhouse MMA contact info was an unfortunate error. It was up for a few hours, removed immediately when the mistake was realised and AFA since apologised to Powerhouse MMA for the genuine misunderstanding.

    AFA have been active for 21 years and have done great work, working in communities, workplaces and in the music and sports scenes, helping to stem the rise of casual racism and the far-right. I would say that around 95% of the time they get their facts right (everyone is human after all), so I think they do have an pretty good 'record' in that regard.


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    #118
    TF1975
    Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭TF1975


    More pictures of him have surfaced. This time doing security for a gig with high-profile Swedish Nazi band Saga back in 2010:

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=470948939632094&set=a.193798284013829.50214.192377537489237&type=1&theater

    One thing that AFA do, in fairness, is always post all the relevant links and facts so you can check yourself i.e. in this regard the video that the screngrab was taken from:

    http://www.youtube.com/verify_controversy?next_url=/watch%3Fv%3Dgu4InfZJkmI


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    #119
    cowzerp
    Registered Users Posts: 10,549 ✭✭✭✭cowzerp


    I've merged the 2 threads as they're both about the same thing, Personally I don't want him to have his own thread anyway which gives him publicity-Any talk about him which relates to this event keep it on here.

    Rush Boxing club and Rush Martial Arts head coach.



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    #120
    TF1975
    Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭TF1975


    RoboRat wrote: »
    One of the photo's says July 2012 and seems to be from the exact same night as another which says Nov 2012. The rest of the photo's IMO don't show him engaging in Neo Nazi activities he might have ended up at a gig or maybe he is a Neo Nazi and went there... I don't know the bloke so I can't comment but I think that we all make mistakes and he has stood up and denounced Neo Nazism publicly.

    To be fair - AFA said the second photo was uploaded onto Youtube in Nov 2012 (they gave the link) but it looks like it was taken the same night as the one in July 2012.

    "Picture of Puhakka sharing the stage with Polish neo-Nazi band Obłęd. The video (from which this screenshot was taken) was uploaded onto Youtube on Nov 26, 2012, less than three months ago but it is likely that the snap was taken in July 2012 (see next picture)"

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=470897982970523&set=a.470001299726858.108568.192377537489237&type=1


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    #121
    GRMA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    RoboRat wrote: »
    I have looked at the photo's and there are photo's of him singing onstage wearing a blood and honour vest (looking hammered), drinking in a bar beside a guy wearing a white power band t-shirt, modeling MMA gear and also in a gym with a load of other lads, one of whom is a Neo Nazi... the rest of the photos are of that said individual.

    One of the photo's says July 2012 and seems to be from the exact same night as another which says Nov 2012. The rest of the photo's IMO don't show him engaging in Neo Nazi activities he might have ended up at a gig or maybe he is a Neo Nazi and went there... I don't know the bloke so I can't comment but I think that we all make mistakes and he has stood up and denounced Neo Nazism publicly.

    No he has not.


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