Celtic Gladiator VI "Day of War"

cowzerp

GRMA wrote: »

What a shameful attitude. This guy applauds mass murder and even takes sick trips to extermination camps. He hasn't renounced his views or gotten rid of his tats. In late November he was wearing nazi t shirts.

If the promoters don't pull him the event will be picketed and they will receive further bad press

Shamefull, why because it differs from yours?!

I'm against his beliefs but you can be sure many fighters you or others watch are not the nicest people around, once they keep their views seperate I see no issue.

I'm not even supporting the event-simple answer is dont go if you feel that's the right thing to do. Vote with your feet.

CuriousG

I will be honest and say I have not seen any of the facebook stuff (will look in a sec) but I have been a fan of this fighter for a while now, and I don't see why he should be judged for something he has apologised for.

If we judged every sports person/fighter/ athlete in the world by their past, there would be next to none left!!

Leave the man alone, he is human too. I'm not justifying anything, but at the same time, there are a lot of people interested in seeing him fight from a sporting point of view. If you don't support him, don't go!

I would understand if it was some sort of political event, but it isn't, it is an MMA fight.

For people that rant on about equality so much, surely he should be given the equal opportunity to fight like any other fighter should?

It is unfair to say he should be pulled over something that is completely personal and to be honest, should not be anyone elses business. The only way you are making it your business is if you spend the money to support him, easily avoided imo.

Mr. CooL ICE

I generally judge people on what they have done rather than what they think. I don't know much about what Niko's past aside from what's been discussed here.

If this man has neo-nazi views, well, that's his set of opinions on the world and as bigoted, unethical and backward as they are, he is entitled to them. If however, he went around lynching people, throwing burning crosses on front lawns (or whatever shenanigans neo-nazis get up to), that's a different thing.

On the other hand, Matt Hughes has admitted to torturing and mutilating farm animals, skipped friends' funerals to get drunk and assaulting multiple people including his parents, wife (whom he cheated on multiple times), colleagues and various others. And he tries to justify it all because he is a born again christian. That, in my opinion, is far worse than hating jews.

dreadskin

Shameful. Because it dances on the graves of millions of Nazi victims. Sometimes being the silentmajority gets u nowhere. Sometimes collective action against something that is WRONG is the only logical way to do it. If this fighter won't be pulled after reasoned discussion then the show will not go ahead one way or another. And i don't mean by using violence like that Nazi besterd and his ilk generally do...

GRMA

cowzerp wrote: »

Shamefull, why because it differs from yours?!

I'm against his beliefs but you can be sure many fighters you or others watch are not the nicest people around, once they keep their views seperate I see no issue.

I'm not even supporting the event-simple answer is dont go if you feel that's the right thing to do. Vote with your feet.

Yes it is shameful.

With his tatoos giving him any platform is spreading the hate and giving succor to scum like blood and honour


I doubt the event will be going ahead with this man on the card anyway.

dreadskin

he is part of a world wide network opposed to everything we hold dear in this society. their type hate everyone in their way. they incite violence against the weakest in society.

he hasnt changed his views, he is still very active. he is a legend in his scene. here is an example from last year 2012. on stage. singing along with a neo-nazi band. no one gets on stage at any gig with out being 'one of the ladz'

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=470377069689281&set=a.193798284013829.50214.192377537489237&type=1&theater

dreadskin

and again:


https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=470013853058936&set=a.470001299726858.108568.192377537489237&type=1&theater

dreadskin

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=470013853058936&set=a.470001299726858.108568.192377537489237&type=1&theater


https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=470013853058936&set=a.470001299726858.108568.192377537489237&type=1&theater


from july 2012. this man is still deeply imbedded with the violent extreme right. ie... a Neo-Nazi

dreadskin

oh i, whos organisation blood and honour, have connections with and have fundraised for.. the LVF...


does that put it in context for you?

Stillweak

dreadskin wrote: »

oh i, whos organisation blood and honour, have connections with and have fundraised for.. the LVF...


does that put it in context for you?

Yes. Yes it does. Can you elaborate please?

dreadskin

Stillweak wrote: »

Yes. Yes it does. Can you elaborate please?

Blood and honour are the music playing, fund raising, hate spreading arm of groups like combat 18 and their European and American equivalents. Its like a neo Nazi franchise. They do lots of fundraising for groups they idolise. Ie those shooting people. There were many gigs and fundraising events done in honor of The lvf . This is who we are letting into our Irish mma scene. It MUST be stopped!

TF1975

LordChessington wrote: »

I generally judge people on what they have done rather than what they think. I don't know much about what Niko's past aside from what's been discussed here.

If this man has neo-nazi views, well, that's his set of opinions on the world and as bigoted, unethical and backward as they are, he is entitled to them. If however, he went around lynching people, throwing burning crosses on front lawns (or whatever shenanigans neo-nazis get up to), that's a different thing.

The problem is though that you are helping to legitimise his views by allowing him to partake in tournaments like this.

In my mind, people with neo-Nazi tattoos, who do security for neo-Nazi organisations, who sing with neo-Nazi bands and like to pose with neo-Nazis at concentration camps (like Puhakka) shouldn't be treated like everyone else. His politics are poisonous and creep into scenes (whether it's sport or music) when people sit back and do nothing.

It's ridiculous to talk about burning crosses and lyncing. Did you watch Mississippi Burning last night or something? We're not in the Deep South. The far-right is a very real and growing threat right now in Europe. It may not be relevant to your daily life (or any of us in Ireland for that matter) but violent neo-Nazi and Fascist gangs are extremely active in countries like Russia, Poland, Greece and Germany right now. Puhakka is a key player in this European neo-Nazi movement and, as such, should be shunned by the MMA community.

Some examples of recent neo-Nazi terrorism:

2000-2006: German Nazis murdered nine immigrants (eight Turkish and one Greek) and were involved in two bombings.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_Underground

2009-2009: Swedish racist shoots two and wounds 12 people of immigrant origin
http://www.thelocal.se/44606/20121123/#.UOoOvLYW7XU

2011: Italian Nazi shoots dead two traders from Senegal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Florence_shootings

Every weekend (if not day), Nazis associated with Puhakka in Poland or Russia are behind vicious attacks on immigrants, homosexuals and others.

In terms of an Irish context, Puhakka was one of Blood & Honour Finland's top security members. As well as having a B&H tattoo, only last year he was pictured wearing one of their vests at a Polish Fascist gig. B&H in Finland and other connected groups were heavily involved in fundraising campaigns for Loyalist terror gangs especially the Loyalist Volunteer Force. Blood and Honour and their friends in Combat 18 were behind numerous attacks on Irish parades in Britain.

MMA is a growing popular sport in Ireland. I think it will be really damaging if people see that European neo-Nazis are tolerated in the scene.

TF1975

cowzerp wrote: »

Shamefull, why because it differs from yours?!

I'm against his beliefs but you can be sure many fighters you or others watch are not the nicest people around, once they keep their views seperate I see no issue.

I'm not even supporting the event-simple answer is dont go if you feel that's the right thing to do. Vote with your feet.

How can someone keep their views separate when they have a SS Deaths Head and Life Rune tattooed prominently on their body?

This guy was pictured on stage with a leading Polish neo-Nazi band last year and with a Finnish band the year before that. I can only imagine the stuff he's been to where photos haven't surfaced yet.

Not wanting a neo-Nazi partake in a MMA tournament in your city is the same as not wanting a neo-Nazi band play here or a neo-Nazi politician speak here. It's all about reducing the oxygen that these guys need to grow. If you ignore them, they will grow. Before long, they will be too strong and organised to confront successfully.

dreadskin

Like greece...

riffmongous

I'm all for giving second chances but that facebook photo of him wearing a Blood and Honour vest is pretty damning in my opinion. If you were really ashamed of your past would you wear something that associates you with it so closely? If you were ashamed of your neo-nazi past how the hell could you wear a vest that's sponsoring such vile ideas??

Pride Fighter

Fascists have no place in this country. Or any country for that matter. He should be pulled from the card. If I am free the night of the event, I'll help place a picket on the event.

I heard Celtic Gladiator is a Polish ran MMA org in Ireland. Shocking they would allow him fight for them considering what Fascists like Puhakka did to Poland in the recent past.

pablohoney87

Look whether we like it or not the man has beliefs. F*cked up beliefs but he has the right to them.
All we can really do is be of the attitude, don't like him don't go to/fight at the event. If you are the activist type you're also free to hold a demonsration at the event. (A right defended under the same principles as his to be a facist a-hole)

nino1

cowzerp wrote: »

Neo Nazi or not he's coming to fight not promote anything

No offence Paul but that's one of the most ignorant comments I've read in a long time.
How can someone sporting clearly visible neo nazi tattoo's not be promoting anything.

This is not a case of a guy with nazi views who keeps it to himself, he has his views outrageously tattooed on his body. He is a hero and s legend for Neo Nazi's. Can you not see that a guy like this who is in the public eye can act as a recruitment tool for Neo Nazi. All it takes is for impressionable young fans to idolise him and then end up sharing his views.

When BAMMA pulled him from their event they sent out a message that they don't support Neo Nazi's or their views.
Celtic Gladiators are clearly supporting them if they don't pull him from the card.

What a pathetic letter and what a pathetic response from Celtic gladiators. He says he "never meant to offend anyone" with his tattoo's!!! How can Neo Nazi tattoos not offend anyone?

I agree with a previous post that celtic gladiators are either sympathisers with Neo nazism or they just have no moral code whatsoever.

nino1

I call on a complete boycott of this event and a boycott on the events sponsors until this fighter is pulled from the card.

I am going to send an email to
Black Energy Drink
Frugo
4move isotonic drinks
and Mroz

to let them know exactly what they are sponsoring and I call on others to email them too to show your dissatisfaction.

El Guapo!

There's also a major problem with contacting the newspapers though.
The media will always try to put a vicious spin on anything they can and this will be no exception. They'll jump on the chance to get their claws into this, an their main victim will be the sport of mma.
They'll go down the route of branding this sport as the usual "human cock-fighting" and they'll try to say all its fighters and fans are neo-nazi skinheads that like to torture bunny rabbits in their spare time.
It'll be way too damaging to the sport to highlight this to the media. The best thing to do would be to appeal to the promotion to drop the fighter, and also to the sponsors to pull their sponsorship unless the guy is dropped from the card. I think the best method of dealing with this is to keep it as "in-house" as possible.

Clive

The media already know all about it.

El Guapo!

Clive wrote: »

The media already kniw all about it.

Have they dived on the story yet?

Teferi

rounders123 wrote: »

The holocaust is a bit far fetched in my book.

Why is the holocaust a bit far fetched?

Xlami

At fighthounds and it was mentioned on the powerhouse Facebook it's a shame the likes of The Star and The Herald only get in contact with you about this sort of controversy and not about the achievements of Norman and Conor.

This may be a bit off the point but say for example Rovers were playing in Europe Against a team with a 'Neo nazi' there'd be no protests against him playing at Tallaght. The media will obsess over this fella because he's a 'cage fighter'

darced

This post has been deleted.

Dean09

Dean09 wrote: »

There's also a major problem with contacting the newspapers though.
The media will always try to put a vicious spin on anything they can and this will be no exception. They'll jump on the chance to get their claws into this, an their main victim will be the sport of mma.
They'll go down the route of branding this sport as the usual "human cock-fighting" and they'll try to say all its fighters and fans are neo-nazi skinheads that like to torture bunny rabbits in their spare time.
It'll be way too damaging to the sport to highlight this to the media. The best thing to do would be to appeal to the promotion to drop the fighter, and also to the sponsors to pull their sponsorship unless the guy is dropped from the card. I think the best method of dealing with this is to keep it as "in-house" as possible.

To put another slant on that, it could also be used to the advantage of the mma community as a whole - work with the media and let them know that clubs etc will not work with or support this promotion as a result of them supporting having this particular fighter on their show.

TF1975

Xlami wrote: »

This may be a bit off the point but say for example Rovers were playing in Europe Against a team with a 'Neo nazi' there'd be no protests against him playing at Tallaght.

Of course there would be. SRFC Ultras and their other Ultras group the Boardwalk Bloc are well known for their anti-Racist displays and progressive politics.

It's unfair to compare one neo-Nazi in a football squad of say 22 (plus trainers etc.) and a single neo-Nazi coming over to fight with a trainer or two.

Anyone in a squad of 22 may be overlooked because it's a large group of people. It would be very hard for him to influence people with his politics. On the other hand, Puhakka, with his prominent neo-Nazi tattoos has this chance. It completely legitimises his vile politics if he's allowed to partake in major tournaments like the one happening in Saggart next month.

If similar tournaments in England and Poland decided to drop him for this very reason, shouldn't Ireland too?

TF1975

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

There's already been known Irish neo-Nazis, one based in Cork and one based in Wexford, prominently debating on the Celtic Gladiator Facebook page and lending their support that Puhakka should be allowed to partake in the tournament.

Of course it's going to give these people a moral boost if they see that a key and much respected player in the neo-Nazi scene in Europe fights in Ireland. I wouldn't be surprised that many might travel to the fight just to see him fight and use it as a social event to network.

The far-right in Ireland is week and fragmented. They don't have any major local role models (bands, sports people etc.). Celtic Gladiator and others, whether intentionally or not, are potentially giving Fascists in Ireland a major little "pick-me-up" by allowing this guy to partake.

darced

This post has been deleted.

darced

This post has been deleted.