Formula 1 2013: General Discussion Thread

Rascasse

Jenson's problem is that he doesn't have the pace of HAM/ALO/VET so his McLaren will need to be at least 2 tenths faster than he Red Bull & Ferrari to have a level playing field where he can exploit his consistency and tyre management.

Can't really see past VET or ALO for next year's title. Kimi or Jenson's have a chance if their teams pull something out of the hat car wise.

kartincolin

Rascasse wrote: »

Jenson's problem is that he doesn't have the pace of HAM/ALO/VET so his McLaren will need to be at least 2 tenths faster than he Red Bull & Ferrari to have a level playing field where he can exploit his consistency and tyre management.

Can't really see past VET or ALO for next year's title. Kimi or Jenson's have a chance if their teams pull something out of the hat car wise.

In regards to Kimi, if Lotus give the equipment, he could definitely be a dark horse for the title.

SilverScreen

kartincolin wrote: »

In regards to Kimi, if Lotus give the equipment, he could definitely be a dark horse for the title.

I'd love to see Kimi and Lotus have a good shot at the title myself, I don't think I could bear to see another year of Vettel/Red Bull domination. However I'd absolutely LOVE to see Hamilton win the title next year for Mercedes, just to take everyone by surprise and shut a load of people up.

kartincolin

Zero1986 wrote: »

I'd love to see Kimi and Lotus have a good shot at the title myself, I don't think I could bear to see another year of Vettel/Red Bull domination. However I'd absolutely LOVE to see Hamilton win the title next year for Mercedes, just to take everyone by surprise and shut a load of people up.

If Hamilton can maintain his motivation in what we all believe will be an uncompetitive car, then I`m sure that he will put in some stellar performances. But who knows, perhaps Mercedes may get their act together over the winter and give Hammy a front running car.

Also, this finally gives the world the chance to finally judge how good Nico Rosberg is.

mickdw

kartincolin wrote: »

...... this finally gives the world the chance to finally judge how good Nico Rosberg is.

and if rosberg is anywhere near hamilton, someone will have to tempt schumi out of retirement again:D

kartincolin

mickdw wrote: »

and if rosberg is anywhere near hamilton, someone will have to tempt schumi out of retirement again:D

Would be hilarious if Rosberg destroyed Hamilton and it turned that Michael`s second comeback was a massive success!

the culture of deference

I watched the Sky F1 season review, it is excellent, Damon, Martin and Johnny chatting for over an hour with about 30 mins of footage from the year, well worth watching.

Hard to believe Alonso was 39 points ahead of Seb with 7 races to go. Seb dug deep, 2 of the last 3 races must have pushed him beyond the limits, how he finished the Brazilian GP I will never know.

kartincolin wrote: »

In saying that, he needs to show that he has got the speed and talent necessary to be a McLaren driver, as Hulkenberg is lurking in the background!

This year is gonna be super.

Sergio is going for the champ, he has no doubts in his mind. Buttons racing is better than his qual. He is so smooth.

Webber V Vettel.
Mark blew the 2010 champ, Seb will be at the top of his game. Marks last chance.

a drained Alonso V resurgent Massa, we know how quick massa can be

kimi and grojean, they must be in with a shout

Hulk and Maldonado are my favourites for good things this year,

How do you pick

kartincolin wrote: »

Would be hilarious if Rosberg destroyed Hamilton and it turned that Michael`s second comeback was a massive success!

Wishful thinking. Lewis is a stunning driver.

But if it did happen then we finally put to bed the "MS needs a dogsbody for a team mate" line.

To come out of a 3 year retirement, with no testing, against a highly regarded team mate, into his team, at 40 years of age, and then matching him in your 2nd year and beating him in your 3rd is simply stunning.

What could MS have done in the Lotus or the Sauber

kartincolin

the culture of deference wrote: »

This year is gonna be super.

Sergio is going for the champ, he has no doubts in his mind. Buttons racing is better than his qual. He is so smooth.

Webber V Vettel.
Mark blew the 2010 champ, Seb will be at the top of his game. Marks last chance.

a drained Alonso V resurgent Massa, we know how quick massa can be

kimi and grojean, they must be in with a shout

Hulk and Maldonado are my favourites for good things this year,

How do you pick


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I back Grosjean to shine next year. Everybody overlooks Romain, but his raw speed is phenomenal, and if the boys at Enstone can provide him with the right equipment, he will win races, of that I have no doubt whatsoever. So glad that they have persisted with him, a far better alternative than Kovalainen, although Valsecchi deserves a race seat, far more worthy than Max Chilton.

Tea 1000

kartincolin wrote: »

If Hamilton can maintain his motivation in what we all believe will be an uncompetitive car, then I`m sure that he will put in some stellar performances. But who knows, perhaps Mercedes may get their act together over the winter and give Hammy a front running car.

Also, this finally gives the world the chance to finally judge how good Nico Rosberg is.

I wonder, given that the Mercedes fell even further behind in the last few races, did Ross Brawn just start concentrating on this year's car instead? Maybe they have a gem in the lineup and Hamilton will go and win the first GP? Brawn doesn't sit too long with a bad car.

kartincolin

Tea 1000 wrote: »

I wonder, given that the Mercedes fell even further behind in the last few races, did Ross Brawn just start concentrating on this year's car instead? Maybe they have a gem in the lineup and Hamilton will go and win the first GP? Brawn doesn't sit too long with a bad car.

Not to forget the all-star team of designers that Mercedes have in Aldo Costa and the other 2 who I cant remember :P

Myrddin

Tea 1000 wrote: »

I wonder, given that the Mercedes fell even further behind in the last few races, did Ross Brawn just start concentrating on this year's car instead? Maybe they have a gem in the lineup and Hamilton will go and win the first GP? Brawn doesn't sit too long with a bad car.

I'd say that happened even earlier than we think, hopefully this season its a consistently competitive car.

kartincolin

EnterNow wrote: »

I'd say that happened even earlier than we think, hopefully this season its a consistently competitive car.

I`m sure that 99% of the people hoping that Mercedes produce a competitive car are hoping so because of their allegiance to Hamilton, but I personally think that Rosberg could do well in a consistently competitive car. Admittedly, he squandered good chances before, like Singapore 2009, but I`m sure he could challenge for regular podiums, although I would be highly sceptical about his ability to mount a title challenge.

Myrddin

kartincolin wrote: »

I`m sure that 99% of the people hoping that Mercedes produce a competitive car are hoping so because of their allegiance to Hamilton

Its bizarre how feeling it better to have more competitive teams & cars means your a Hamilton fan

I must be of the 1% who just thinks it would be just more exciting having not just Ferrari & McLaren challenging Red Bull...but Mercedes too. If I had my way Williams, Sauber & Lotus would be pushing for consistent winning ability too

mickdw

Tea 1000 wrote: »

I wonder, given that the Mercedes fell even further behind in the last few races, did Ross Brawn just start concentrating on this year's car instead? Maybe they have a gem in the lineup and Hamilton will go and win the first GP? Brawn doesn't sit too long with a bad car.

Its interesting to look at Ross Brawns history and see that after 3 or so seasons, he wins without exception!

Jordan 199

kartincolin wrote: »

Not to forget the all-star team of designers that Mercedes have in Aldo Costa and the other 2 who I cant remember :P

Bob Bell and Geoff Willis.

SnowDrifts

EnterNow wrote: »

I'd say that happened even earlier than we think, hopefully this season its a consistently competitive car.

I really hope they don't. I'm not sure I could stand the British media and the uneducated saying things like "Hamilton turned the team around".

Myrddin

SnowDrifts wrote: »

I really hope they don't. I'm not sure I could stand the British media and the uneducated saying things like "Hamilton turned the team around".

Yeah I know, it'd be a kicker to see Merc have a decent car in the wake of Schumachers departure...but still, the more cars fighting for wins the better it is on the armchair

SnowDrifts

EnterNow wrote: »

Yeah I know, it'd be a kicker to see Merc have a decent car in the wake of Schumachers departure...but still, the more cars fighting for wins the better it is on the armchair

That is true. Would love Lotus to hit the ground running too and be up there from the get go.

kartincolin

EnterNow wrote: »

Its bizarre how feeling it better to have more competitive teams & cars means your a Hamilton fan

I must be of the 1% who just thinks it would be just more exciting having not just Ferrari & McLaren challenging Red Bull...but Mercedes too. If I had my way Williams, Sauber & Lotus would be pushing for consistent winning ability too

Well, as unusual as the concept might seem, a lot of people who watch F1 have an allegiance to one particular driver. It may bot make you a Hamilton fan, but his name is coming up a damn sight more than Rosberg`s name in these forums.

I wholeheartedly agree with what you are saying about the smaller teams occasionally toppling the might of the top teams, but unfortunately money is unquestionably the biggest factor in modern F1, and motorsport in general.

Myrddin

kartincolin wrote: »

Well, as unusual as the concept might seem, a lot of people who watch F1 have an allegiance to one particular driver. It may bot make you a Hamilton fan, but his name is coming up a damn sight more than Rosberg`s name in these forums.

A driver with a sole win to his name being mentioned less than a former world champion who can stick it to the best of them provided his car holds together? Nothing odd about that, fan or no fan. A lot of other drivers names get mentioned more than Rosberg...I find he's extremely average on race day, so its got nothing to do with being a Hamilton fan {of which I must confess I do think he's got great talent}

I wholeheartedly agree with what you are saying about the smaller teams occasionally toppling the might of the top teams, but unfortunately money is unquestionably the biggest factor in modern F1, and motorsport in general.

I do agree money is a huge part of it, but not necessarily the be all end all. If it were solely down to money, Ferrari would surely hold all the cards. You need special drivers like Vettel, Alonso, Hamilton, & Kimi, you need people who can continually think outside the box & give you the edge {Newey, Brawn etc}, you need someone who can hold it all together {Horner, Dennis etc} & you need the run of the baize as a Snooker player might say.

Red Bull, are the only ones who have been able to tick all the boxes for the last three years, & the results show. Three times driver champion & three times constructors. Ferrari & Merc can throw all the money in the world at it, but until there's harmony like RB have, it won't pay off.

kartincolin

EnterNow wrote: »

Red Bull, are the only ones who have been able to tick all the boxes for the last three years, & the results show. Three times driver champion & three times constructors. Ferrari & Merc can throw all the money in the world at it, but until there's harmony like RB have, it won't pay off.

Correct if I am wrong, but Red Bull have spent the most money over the past 2-3 seasons? Anyway, I know the point that you are making. I think Adrian`s role is SLIGHTLY over exaggerated as most people tend to forget that he is backed by a team of some of the best designers in the business. I do not want to come across as being ignorant and cynical, but what gets you the magic drivers (Alonso, Vettel, Hamilton), the magic designers (Newey, Brawn) and the best rate of development? Money. It may not be a guarantee of success, but it`s a very good start.

smellslikeshoes

With Mercedes I think a lot of people are forgetting how competitive they were at the start of the season, the 2012 car was a good car it just wasn't developed. With better luck they would have been right up there in the constructors in the first half of the season. I can already imagine the British commentators singing Hamilton's praises when Mercedes builds another good car this year, the real test is if they will still be competitive coming into August/September.

Jordan 199

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

With Mercedes I think a lot of people are forgetting how competitive they were at the start of the season, the 2012 car was a good car it just wasn't developed. With better luck they would have been right up there in the constructors in the first half of the season. I can already imagine the British commentators singing Hamilton's praises when Mercedes builds another good car this year, the real test is if they will still be competitive coming into August/September.

That's right. Nico Rosberg had a very good first half to the season, scored points in 8 out of 11 races including the win in China and the 2nd place finish in Monaco.

I read here on Autosport that mid season changes in the aero department were behind the teams slump in the second half of the season.

Jordan 199

2013 car launch dates so far:

McLaren: 31st January.

Force India: 1st February.

Sauber: 2nd February.


2013: pre season testing:

Jerez: 5th to 8th February.

Barcelona: 19th to 22nd February.

Barcelona: 28th February to 3rd March.

SilverScreen

Jordan 191 wrote: »

2012 car launch dates so far:

McLaren: 31st January.

Force India: 1st February.

Sauber: 2nd February.


2012: pre season testing:

Jerez: 5th to 8th February.

Barcelona: 19th to 22nd February.

Barcelona: 28th February to 3rd March.

What about this year?

Jordan 199

Zero1986 wrote: »

What about this year?

Lol, sorted now. Still think I'm in 2012

mickdw

Anyone been to a test day? Worth while or not?

mbutler2007

I am looking to go to F1 race this year. What is the best race in Europe, i am on a bit of a budget but would need some were i can get some were to sleep at a good price and a ticket, i would like to sit in a section were the hard core race fans sit. I was think Belgium mybe ?

Dravokivich

Belgium is often mentioned here as the best when it comes to low budget and value for money.

the culture of deference

Couple of interesting interviews this week.

Helmut Marko has hit out at Sebastian Vettel's critics, accused Fernando Alonso of being involved in "politics" and believes Mark Webber struggles when the pressure is on.



"There is a lot of nonsense being said," he said. "'Vettel can't overtake.' Ridiculous; just look at Abu Dhabi and Brazil. 'He is only able to win because he's sitting in a Newey car.' We have two Newey cars, so why aren't we clinching one-two at every race?



"Then the comment of the great Jackie Stewart that Vettel must go to another team to prove himself. This is said by someone who scored all his greatest successes in just one team, Tyrrell.



"I can't take it seriously. We at Red Bull Racing are not just a bunch of civil servants.


When asked how Ferrari founder Enzo Ferrari would feel about being beaten by a "drinks manufacturer" he replied: "There is no way Enzo would have liked such defeat, but he would acknowledge the performance of the opposition - and then would whip his boys accordingly so they'd do everything to beat us. But not with such actions as we have recently experienced.



"Alonso is constantly involved in politics. I believe we saw the stress he was under towards the end of the season. Saying things like, 'I'm competing against Hamilton, not Vettel,' and 'I'm up against Newey,' these psychological skirmishes. We said, 'Just ignore him.'"





Marko feels the veteran struggles when there's a bit of pressure on him to deliver while Vettel thrives in difficult situations.
"It seems to me that Webber has on average two races per year where he is unbeatable, but he can't maintain this form throughout the year," he said. "And as soon as his prospects start to look good in the World Championship, he has a little trouble with the pressure that this creates.



"In comparison with Seb's rising form, it seems to me that Mark's form somehow flattens out. Then, if some technical mishap occurs, like with the alternator for example, he falls relatively easily into a downward spiral. No driver remains unaffected by this, because the tension is palpable.



"In 2010, it was particularly extreme. Webber headed into the final race with better chances than Vettel, and he probably carried the disappointment of his defeat into the 2011 season, which is so easy to understand.


Mark was never in a top team, but he was always regarded as a high flyer if he only could get into the right team. "Then Red Bull puts him in a car - a possible winner - and suddenly along comes this young kid and he snatches the booty from under Mark's nose. Psychologically it's not easy, of course; this would gnaw away at anyone's confidence. It's more than understandable."




Sir Jackie Stewart has hit out at Formula One, saying there needs to be more consistency as highlighted by the "disorganised function" at the title decider.

Stewart believes one of the problems is Formula One's stewards' policy and - not for the first time - has called for the sport to have at least one permanent steward.



"How can you possibly have four different stewards at every grand prix? Why have you not got one professional?"
The triple World Champion says the solution is for "one man who goes to every race who is going to make consistent judgements and has got authority."