Formula 1 2013: General Discussion Thread

the culture of deference

mbutler2007 wrote: »

I am looking to go to F1 race this year. What is the best race in Europe, i am on a bit of a budget but would need some were i can get some were to sleep at a good price and a ticket, i would like to sit in a section were the hard core race fans sit. I was think Belgium mybe ?

Wouldn't mind going to Spa. Only bad thing about going is that its only 40 + laps. German GP is 70+.

The last race I was at I had no idea what cars were leading or lapped, and by the end I was deaf (with ear plugs) AND DIDN'T CARE, the experience was brilliant. I would love to the trip that Frostie did and have that access.

Robbo

Perhaps it's time for a new thread, "The tired outbursts and continuing irrelevance of Jackie Stewart"?

the culture of deference

Robbo wrote: »

Perhaps it's time for a new thread, "The tired outbursts and continuing irrelevance of Jackie Stewart"?

He is right about the standard of making consistent judgements. There was a lot of inconsistent decisions made last year.

smellslikeshoes

With Jackie Stewart it's always best to ignore anything he says about individual drivers/teams especially since there is often a serious shade of jealousy in his opinions but when it comes to the sport in general/cars/tracks etc. he is usually absolutely spot on.

Stewards decisions have been an absolute farce the last few years. The decisions in general have been much too harsh for simple racing incidents and with no consistency whatsoever.

Myrddin

I think I'd watch an ad break rather than listen to Stewart...& I don't say that lightly.

Jordan 199

I wonder will Force India and Caterham announce their second seat drivers when they launch their cars for this season.

Daniel S

Jordan 191 wrote: »

I wonder will Force India and Caterham announce their second seat drivers when they launch their cars for this season.

Pull the cover off the car then the driver!

Jordan 199

Red Bull to launch their car on the 3rd of February.

2013 car launch dates so far:

McLaren: 31st January.

Force India: 1st February.

Sauber: 2nd February.

Red Bull: 3rd February.

Jordan 199

2014 Mercedes Benz 1.6 Litre V6 Turbo F1 Engine:



Article on Autosport about it.

SnowDrifts

Jordan 191 wrote: »

2014 Mercedes Benz 1.6 Litre V6 Turbo F1 Engine:

Article on Autosport about it.

Sigh. There's no replacement for displacement. Bring back the 3.0 V10s.

Daniel S

SnowDrifts wrote: »

Sigh. There's no replacement for displacement. Bring back the 3.0 V10s.

Away with you're American nonsense!!! :pac:

But yeah, bring back the 3.0 V10's and run them on hydrogen (taken from natural gas) but tell everyone the engines produce zero emissions and are environmentally friendly!

SnowDrifts

Daniel S wrote: »

Away with you're American nonsense!!! :pac:

But yeah, bring back the 3.0 V10's and run them on hydrogen (taken from natural gas) but tell everyone the engines produce zero emissions and are environmentally friendly!

I like it... may want to stand a few miles back if there is a crash though!

So to complete my wishlist...

>3.0 V10's (Hydrogen powered to keep the modernists and tree huggers happy)

>Bring back re-fueling

>Reduce aero downforce by 30-40%

If Carlsberg did.....................

SilverScreen

I want to see how these new turbos perform before I jump to wanting V10s back.

I also agree with bringing back re-fueling, would make the drivers push harder. Also, I'd love to see semi-automatic gears banned and a return to manual. Just to make it that little bit trickier for the drivers.

Jordan 199

SnowDrifts wrote: »

Sigh. There's no replacement for displacement. Bring back the 3.0 V10s.

I was reading that the BMW P83 3.0L V10 engine that Williams used 2003 had over 900bhp.

Article about it here.

SnowDrifts

Jordan 191 wrote: »

I was reading that the BMW P83 3.0L V10 engine that Williams used 2003 had over 900bhp.

Article about it here.

Cheers Jordan - some really great stats on that link.

The memories of hearing this unit in person ricocheting through the Ardenne forest brings a tear to the ear.

Jordan 199

I'd say if BMW kept on developing that 3 Litre V10 motor, it would have hit the 1000bhp mark.

Myrddin

I really hope the new donkeys have a distinctive F1'esque sound to them & isn't like listening to 20 odd Clio's going around a track. The big V10's sound unreal

Daniel S

EnterNow wrote: »

I really hope the new donkeys have a distinctive F1'esque sound to them & isn't like listening to 20 odd Clio's going around a track. The big V10's sound unreal

Well since they're turbo's they're probably not going to have that nice of an exhaust note.

In that case, I want a nice bit of turbo lag and a f**king sonic boom when it kicks in! And onboard footage of a test car going around a hairpin to a long straight!

What about anti-lag? Think that could be used in F1?

Jordan 199

LIGHTNING wrote: »

The BMW Turbo block in the 80`s was pushing 1600bhp in qualifying form. That said it only lasted a lap or two :pac:

Aye. Back then the boost would be turned up in qualifying, but when it came to race, the boost was reduced to stop the engines expiring during the race.

I read that those 4 cylinder BMW turbo motors had toluene mixed into the fuel to get more power out of the engine.

Kxiii

Jordan 191 wrote: »

Aye. Back then the boost would be turned up in qualifying, but when it came to race, the boost was reduced to stop the engines expiring during the race.

I read that those 4 cylinder BMW turbo motors had toluene mixed into the fuel to get more power out of the engine.

I remember reading somewhere that BMW would only use engine blocks that had come from road cars with 100,000 mile or more on them. The thinking was that if the block had survived that long without developing any flaws that it was good to race.

Daniel S

Kxiii wrote: »

I remember reading somewhere that BMW would only use engine blocks that had come from road cars with 100,000 mile or more on them. The thinking was that if the block had survived that long without developing any flaws that it was good to race.

Was definitely on YouTube somewhere, I'll try and find it!

EDIT: It was a Jeremy Clarkson job and apparently the workers would urinate on them for good luck haha!

the culture of deference

"The current KERS currently produces 80hp for 6.7 seconds per lap, while the new ERS will deliver 161 hp for 33.3 seconds per lap."

This is a major difference. Hows is it gonna work out.

mickdw

the culture of deference wrote: »

"The current KERS currently produces 80hp for 6.7 seconds per lap, while the new ERS will deliver 161 hp for 33.3 seconds per lap."

This is a major difference. Hows is it gonna work out.

I dont know but it should be interesting. Given what we used to hear about brake balance issues between when kers was harvesting energy and not, I think that they would surely need some intelligence built into the system to help stabilty given the major increase in energy being recovered.
Given the difficulty many teams had in packaging a suitable kers system, getting a system with maybe 10 times the energy running in a car should be a challenge even if the rules help.
Old kers was only working off the rear wheels. I guess they would need to have generators taking energy from front wheels too now at braking areas but I havent had a real look at the regs. If they do have energy recovery generators at the front, I figure it will be hard to stop the teams using this to create varying braking forces across the front axle which would be useful.

GarIT

mickdw wrote: »

I dont know but it should be interesting. Given what we used to hear about brake balance issues between when kers was harvesting energy and not, I think that they would surely need some intelligence built into the system to help stabilty given the major increase in energy being recovered.
Given the difficulty many teams had in packaging a suitable kers system, getting a system with maybe 10 times the energy running in a car should be a challenge even if the rules help.
Old kers was only working off the rear wheels. I guess they would need to have generators taking energy from front wheels too now at braking areas but I havent had a real look at the regs. If they do have energy recovery generators at the front, I figure it will be hard to stop the teams using this to create varying braking forces across the front axle which would be useful.

ERS and KERS aren't the same thing. Basically when you take away the K you take away it only happening when the car is braking. ERS is just Energy Recovery System rather then kinetic ERS which means it only recovers kenetic (movement) energy when the car is slowing down. I don't know what the rules are like but there are many ways to get electricity from a car, not just from braking.

mickdw

GarIT wrote: »

ERS and KERS aren'o the same thing. Basically when you take away the K you take away it only happening when the car is braking. ERS is just Energy Recovery System rather then kinetic ERS which means it only recovers kenetic (movement) energy when the car is slowing down. I don't know what the rules are like but there are many ways to get electricity from a car, not just from braking.

You are correct but I guess no matter how you seek to recover energy, if you dont do it during the braking/off power phase, you will pay for it with a performance drop. I suppose some energy couldbe recovered from heat sources. im thinking engine water, oil, exhaust and again even brakes. I guess spare engine power after throttle lift off could also be harnessed.

GarIT

mickdw wrote: »

You are correct but I guess no matter how you seek to recover energy, if you dont do it during the braking/off power phase, you will pay for it with a performance drop. I suppose some energy couldbe recovered from heat sources. im thinking engine water, oil, exhaust and again even brakes. I guess spare engine power after throttle lift off could also be harnessed.

Yeah, my point was that I don't think that it will affect braking any more than before because it seems to be implied that it's new technologies rather than using old ones more.

mickdw

GarIT wrote: »

Yeah, my point was that I don't think that it will affect braking any more than before because it seems to be implied that it's new technologies rather than using old ones more.

Ya true enough. I always though the old kers was a wasted opportunity anyway. I think it should have been left more open and allow the teams to recover as much energy as they could. It might have created some more variation between cars etc

brownacid

I think I remember reading something back when the turbo engines were first mooted that they were going to be harvesting heat energy as well as the brake energy. I agree though, it should be unrestricted with the amount of energy that can harvested s that we see a wider window between cars and also more reliability issues as the teams try to get more energy into the car

kartincolin

Anybody read the articles on Autosport`s website regarding the fact that Mercedes have released pictures of it`s 1.6 litre turbo engine for the first time. Selected journalists were also given a chance to HEAR the engine being simulated around a lap of Monza on the dyno. It is supposedly very good indeed!

Tea 1000

kartincolin wrote: »

Anybody read the articles on Autosport`s website regarding the fact that Mercedes have released pictures of it`s 1.6 litre turbo engine for the first time. Selected journalists were also given a chance to HEAR the engine being simulated around a lap of Monza on the dyno. It is supposedly very good indeed!

You'd wonder is 2013 going to be another poor year for Merc while 2014 will be their new era! Seems like that's where their attentions is focused.