DCM 2012 Graduates - the next step

blockic

Sorry to drag this back into the dirt, but feel like I need to clarify a few things here following false accusations.

menoscemo wrote: »

I totally disagree with you categorizing people by their Marathon targets…..
Sessions might look tough but everyone does them at their own pace.

I totally agree with meno here, categorising by marathon targets for this plan is madness as everyone does things at their own pace as said above. I think the bigger item to consider is that the individual has a solid running base starting off and would not be ideal for someone who has not been running at all the last few months…

Big Logger wrote: »

Lets also point out hes a healthy 25 year old male who probably did lots of mileage in secrecy

Once again another foundationless comment that has no purpose other than trying to stir ****. What’s new :rolleyes:

This will be the last time I will be entertaining such posts as there are not worth the time or effort but I feel that these constant mischievous remarks and blindside comments are becoming boring. What the obsession is I have no idea. I’m aware there is a wink in there but there is no doubt in my mind that there is always a purpose behind all these sly comments.

I can clarify that I followed HHN2 for Dublin last year, while adding a mile or two to the later LSRs, no more, no less.

Totalled 428 miles for 18 weeks (started in July) which averages just under 24 miles a week.

Interestingly while I was looking this up, the previous 6 months before starting the plan I ran a grand total of 35 miles! :eek:

There was nothing done in secrecy, why I would want to do that I have no idea. How it would even come into someone’s mind is another thing altogether. Horses for courses I guess.

Anyway, moving on. Best of luck to everyone starting the training for DCM on here! Although I won’t be racing Dublin I’ll be still on a marathon schedule a couple of weeks ahead so I can still feel a part of the gang!

Meno has put together a great plan and has put a lot of effort in for this 2012 class so I would like to personally thank him for that! No doubt the “meno tab” will be open in McGrattan’s bar on October 28th!

Big Logger

blockic wrote: »

Sorry to drag this back into the dirt, but feel like I need to clarify a few things here following false accusations.



I totally agree with meno here, categorising by marathon targets for this plan is madness as everyone does things at their own pace as said above. I think the bigger item to consider is that the individual has a solid running base starting off and would not be ideal for someone who has not been running at all the last few months…



Once again another foundationless comment that has no purpose other than trying to stir ****. What’s new :rolleyes:

This will be the last time I will be entertaining such posts as there are not worth the time or effort but I feel that these constant mischievous remarks and blindside comments are becoming boring. What the obsession is I have no idea. I’m aware there is a wink in there but there is no doubt in my mind that there is always a purpose behind all these sly comments.



There was nothing done in secrecy, why I would want to do that I have no idea. How it would even come into someone’s mind is another thing altogether. Horses for courses I guess.

Doing a bit of sh*t stirring yourself there Blocky.
Don't be acting the twit, you seen the wink after I made that comment.

Big Logger

Runchick wrote: »

Are you hoping to run DCM yourself this year BL?

I would love to do it Runchick if I thought I would beat my time from last year but I'm not sure about my ankle or if I can commit myself to it yet. I will follow the schedule 2 plan in The Irish Runner if I do.

ecoli

Mod: A Gentle reminder to keep things civil people.

HelenAnne

DOCO12 wrote: »

It's 8K, its our local one so the pressure is on to do well in it. An easy mile week for me on the roads it is so I do often wonder how the people who seem to race every week get all their training in around it.

I usually race every week during my club's summer and winter leagues and I often do a parkrun on Saturdays too. I can still usually manage to get mileage in around them (36ish average this year). I'm not really training properly for anything so that makes it easier, but I suppose if I do a 2-mile race, with a 2 mile warmup and a 2 mile cooldown, that's 6 midweek, and similar on a Saturday for a parkrun, so with a mid week mid length run, and a long run and maybe a lunchtime run, it adds up.

but probably if I was doing hard sessions / speed sessions etc i couldn't do it.

Murph_D

Looking forward to doing these meno sessions.

As I won't be running these on a track, does anyone have any tips on using a Garmin (410) to assist in this kind of thing?

KillianByrne

murphd77 wrote: »

Looking forward to doing these meno sessions.

As I won't be running these on a track, does anyone have any tips on using a Garmin (410) to assist in this kind of thing?

You can devise an interval session on the garmin connect website (where your runs are logged) and then download this to your watch. You can start with a warm up (by time or distance) then the session, a rest and so on; you put in as many sessions/rests you want, then add in a warm down.

Download it to your watch and it is in your 'training' menu

Page 15 of the 410 manual - link to a PDF here - http://static.garmincdn.com/pumac/Forerunner410_OM_EN.pdf

menoscemo

murphd77 wrote: »

Looking forward to doing these meno sessions.

As I won't be running these on a track, does anyone have any tips on using a Garmin (410) to assist in this kind of thing?

Simple way to do it...set up autloaps to 0.5 mile or 0.8km. Run your interval and when it bleeps for a first lap stop....wait one minute and run back. Before starting to run the secon rep press 'lap' to register that the time for the second 0.5 mile starts now. You should know where you are running to (as you startted there the last time) but keep running until the watch bleeps. Stop and repeat x 10.

That's how I would do it.
If you want to measure the rest periods accurately and are not carrying a second watch set the 'time' field to 'time-lap'. That way when you complete the first 800m rep the time will restart at 0:00:00 and you can measure your minute...

Murph_D

Very useful, Killian and Meno, thanks.

DOCO12

HelenAnne wrote: »

I usually race every week during my club's summer and winter leagues and I often do a parkrun on Saturdays too. I can still usually manage to get mileage in around them (36ish average this year). I'm not really training properly for anything so that makes it easier, but I suppose if I do a 2-mile race, with a 2 mile warmup and a 2 mile cooldown, that's 6 midweek, and similar on a Saturday for a parkrun, so with a mid week mid length run, and a long run and maybe a lunchtime run, it adds up.

but probably if I was doing hard sessions / speed sessions etc i couldn't do it.

Thanks a mill HelenAnne it's good to hear what other people do.

HelenAnne

DOCO12 wrote: »

Thanks a mill HelenAnne it's good to hear what other people do.

I run for fun, really. I mean, we all like to improve, but mainly I just enjoy running as often as I can fit it in, and I like racing. I think if you're trying to train properly / training for a goal race etc then following a plan / doing structured speed training etc is probably better than doing a lot of races. I just like them! I like racing, and meeting up with friends and I like the tea and biscuits afterwards!

elPadrino

Looking forward to getting started with this interval session tomorrow. Sounds fairly tough. I kept changing my mind about whether to go with the P & D plan or Meno's and I've finally settled on this. Thanks for going to the effort Meno. One quick question. Don't really want to jump ahead here but Im signed up for the Clontarf Marathon on 13th. I won't be racing it but rather will be running with a friend doing his first. He's aiming for around 1:45 and by PB is 1:36. How will this fit in with week 2 of the plan?

Things have been going fairly well for me lately, setting PBs at 5k (18:35)and 5 miles (31:47). Looking forward to getting back into the longer stuff.

I was keeping a training log here but I've abandoned it in favour of a slightly fancier looking one at http://dcm13.blogspot.ie/
I've also abandoned my ill-fated attempt to convert to mileage. I couldn't really get my head around it.

Anyway, best of luck to all 2012 graduates taking this on.

menoscemo

elPadrino wrote: »

Looking forward to getting started with this interval session tomorrow. Sounds fairly tough. I kept changing my mind about whether to go with the P & D plan or Meno's and I've finally settled on this. Thanks for going to the effort Meno. One quick question. Don't really want to jump ahead here but Im signed up for the Clontarf Marathon on 13th. I won't be racing it but rather will be running with a friend doing his first. He's aiming for around 1:45 and by PB is 1:36. How will this fit in with week 2 of the plan?

For the Interval session, it's as tough as you make it. If you go out and do the first few intervals way faster than your 5k pace, it is going to be very tough. I would advise starting closer to your 5 mile pace and pick it up at the end. Make sure there would be 1 or two more intervals in you if you had to.

R.E. Clontarf; since you are pacing a friend you are committing yourself to run way below your own abilities; so go for it and treat it as your LSR.

Alanm

menoscemo wrote: »

For the Interval session, it's as tough as you make it. If you go out and do the first few intervals way faster than your 5k pace, it is going to be very tough. I would advise starting closer to your 5 mile pace and pick it up at the end. Make sure there would be 1 or two more intervals in you if you had to.

I possibly should've read this before I went out and did the session this evening (can't do tomorrow)! Thanks Killian for the tip on setting up the session on the Garmin web site - I really haven't used my watch to it's full potential and it was very handy to set the session up in advance and just follow the beeps!

I couldn't think of a suitable flat road to do the intervals on, so half of them were slightly downhill which made them easier - wasn't quite sure whether to try maintain effort or pace... (I went for pace so effort was higher for 1/2 the runs - forgot h/r monitor so no sure by how much)

My 5k PB is 20:45 (should be sub 20 but didn't get it due to a stitch while doing the docklands run recently), so I was roughly aiming to be at 4min/km pace.

Interval times (watch set to 800m):
03:06
03:04
03:22
03:24
03:23
03:16
03:21
03:16
03:19
03:01
By the end of the second interval I realised that the pace was too quick so slowed down. Last one was pretty close to flat out but certainly could've kept going for a few more if I had to! Overall, I was really happy with the session and enjoyed it (thanks Meno!).

menoscemo

Alanm wrote: »

Interval times (watch set to 800m):
03:06
03:04
03:22
03:24
03:23
03:16
03:21
03:16
03:19
03:01

Nice session. A little haphazard with the pacing but your last one was fastest which is good . Next time you'll have a better idea how to pace them and I think this can also help a lot in races (avoiding going out too fast).
Looks like your average was about 3:16? I think you would get a little faster average with even pacing, maybe 3:10....Thats 8km of quality work though so well done...

statss

Hey Meno

I opted for the club workout tonight (1200 x 4, 300 x 4) instead of your 800's (always easier in a group), times are in my log...6k of hard work done all the same. Will be dipping in and out of your schedule as the weeks go by, but will be making sure to get the prescribed miles done one way or the other. Appreciate the time spent posting these schedules.

overpronator

10x800 session for me tonight too. The plan was to keep it in and around 5k pace but I wasn't overly fussed as I was really hoping to mainly keep the splits consistent.
2 mile warmup.
Splits were
3.17
3.08
3.16
3.11
3.14
3.12
3.13
3.13
3.18
3.14

Im new to these types of sessions and i have to say i really enjoyed it. I was working hard and suffered a wee bit in the middle of the session but as the reps slipped by i could feel my legs dialling into the pace and i finished feeling good, but tired. Few miles cool down for about 10 miles running. I actually thought I'd only done 8 reps, my calf was starting to tighten so I called it a day, was delighted when I came home to see unbeknownst to myself I'd done the 10, the old head gets suprisingly fuzzy trying to remember the numbers, good job I didn't do the 12! Cheers for the session suggestion Meno, its one I'll enjoy doing in the future.

DOCO12

Well done everyone who did Menos session, good work all around. Even tough I'm meant to be taking it easy this week I opted to do a bit of a session of my own and did 5 x 1K, with 1min recovery between reps. The plan was to do it roughly at 6.50pace. I only did a one mile warmup (bad idea usually do two). My reps were:
1: 4.15(6.52/mile)
2: 4.14 (6.50/mile)
3: 4.14 (6.50/mile)
4: 4.12 (6.48/mile)
5: 4.09 (6.43/mile)
Followed by a two mile cool down. Legs still not feeling very heavy so am debating to rest until race at weekend? Go for recovery run this eve? Or recovery run in the morning? Tough decisions all around

overpronator

I just realised that the midweek session was the famed Yasso 800s that I have heard so much about. What are peoples thoughts on these as an indicator of marathon fitness. 5k pace repeats in the anaerobic zone seem quite an arbitrary comparison to me in a similar way to using Mcmillan to predict marathon time from a 5k race, obviously not reading anything into the session just gone as were so far out, just curious what people think of them.
Naturally enough I assume they would be a better indicator if you do them 4 weeks out from a marathon on tired legs with little HR fluctuation from first rep to last? What do you guys reckon?

shels4ever

overpronator wrote: »

I just realised that the midweek session was the famed Yasso 800s that I have heard so much about. What are peoples thoughts on these as an indicator of marathon fitness. 5k pace repeats in the anaerobic zone seem quite an arbitrary comparison to me in a similar way to using Mcmillan to predict marathon time from a 5k race, obviously not reading anything into the session just gone as were so far out, just curious what people think of them.
Naturally enough I assume they would be a better indicator if you do them 4 weeks out from a marathon on tired legs with little HR fluctuation from first rep to last? What do you guys reckon?

I would think that these are a good session to do, but not an amaxing for predicting your marathon time,they can be used as a guide, some people would find this a lot easier with a better base speed, other will find it hard but would have better endurance . It should prob be used with a good few other factors to decide on a marathon time.

menoscemo

overpronator wrote: »

I just realised that the midweek session was the famed Yasso 800s that I have heard so much about. What are peoples thoughts on these as an indicator of marathon fitness. 5k pace repeats in the anaerobic zone seem quite an arbitrary comparison to me in a similar way to using Mcmillan to predict marathon time from a 5k race, obviously not reading anything into the session just gone as were so far out, just curious what people think of them.
Naturally enough I assume they would be a better indicator if you do them 4 weeks out from a marathon on tired legs with little HR fluctuation from first rep to last? What do you guys reckon?

It's not a definitive indicator; but it should give you confidence to know you are well on target for your 3:30 goal...in fact it might be a little soft
The beauty of this session is that we can repeat it later in the programme and you will get an idea of how much our fitness has improved.

For those of you with no idea what Yasso 800's are, have a read and watch of this:
http://www.runnersworld.com/race-training/yasso-800s

I didn't want to reveal this before your workouts as in some ways it might be a self fulfilling prophecy....rather the idea was to have everyone run their best and see what you get. Basically your average time for the 800's (in minutes and seconds) should be approximately your marathon time (in hours and minutes). In other words OP is in 3:13 marathon shape

Obviously they are meant to be done a few weeks out from goal marathon after doing all the appropriate long runs etc; so we will do this session again 2-3 weeks out from Marathon to see how things are going.

overpronator

menoscemo wrote: »

In other words OP is in 3:13 marathon shape

Haha pipe down or there will be lads in white coats looking for you!

menoscemo

overpronator wrote: »

Haha pipe down or there will be lads in white coats looking for you!

Well you have the basic speed to do that. Once you get all the Long runs and MP miles and tune up races done, you may be prepared to change your tune. Time will tell.

Murph_D

First "Meno Session" done. Splits as follows:

3:42
3:43
3:49
3:51
3:44
3:45
3:52
3:49
3:56
3:46

I paced this off the watch at 8k pace. Didn't want to go any harder having raced at the weekend. Found it tough enough, but probably could have reeled off one or two more if I had to. Warm up and cool down brought the evening's total to about 11.5k.

menoscemo

murphd77 wrote: »

First "Meno Session" done. Splits as follows:

3:42
3:43
3:49
3:51
3:44
3:45
3:52
3:49
3:56
3:46

I paced this off the watch at 8k pace. Didn't want to go any harder having raced at the weekend. Found it tough enough, but probably could have reeled off one or two more if I had to. Warm up and cool down brought the evening's total to about 11.5k.

Not far off muprh. in 14 weeks we'll get them all under 3:45

pconn062

10x800m @ 5k pace?? :eek: Meno, you're a cruel taskmaster, wouldn't fancy that one myself!

menoscemo

pconn062 wrote: »

10x800m @ 5k pace?? :eek: Meno, you're a cruel taskmaster, wouldn't fancy that one myself!

I never mentioned 5k pace.... Best pace you can do them consistently...

pconn062

menoscemo wrote: »

I never mentioned 5k pace.... Best pace you can do them consistently...

Great session, good for strength.

RedRunner

Attempted Meno's session tonight but result was an EPIC FAIL:mad:

Never did a session like this before, in fact never did a session of any kind before so not surprising I made a balls of it. Long story short, paced them all wrong and could only manage 7 reps in the end.Didn't attempt any more than that for fear of a) Dying or b)Risking injury.

My current 5k PB is 22:15 and 5 mile is 36:33.First time using this function on watch and found it tricky not being able to see my pace to control it.Did you other guys have a second watch for this??

Anyhow here were the reps I managed to do

Time Avg pace
3:34 7:10
3:28 6:58
3:26 6:52
3:24 6:49
3:19 6:39
3:15 6:30
3:17 6:35

Followed by a good oul wretch!

Avg HR:150
Max HR: 172

Sorry for letting the side down guys. This was definitely a big change from my usual easy or progression runs so the learning curve is steep at the moment but hopefully I can learn something by tonight.

All in all I suppose it was still a good workout .2.5 mile warmup + 3.66mile session + 1.02 gives total of 7.18 miles

Better next time folks, I promise.

Willie42

Results of Memo's session:

3:58
3:54
3:53
3:55
3:54
3:52
3:58
3:56
3:55
3:52

Did 1.5 mile warm up - .5 cool down blisters on feet raw at that stage, got hubby to pick me up. Tried to keep pace even, probably spent too much time looking at watch instead of running, didn't want to do them too fast and not be able to finish them. Have bought every running sock on the market to no avail - maybe running box in trainers is too big hence the friction:(