X-Men: Days of Future Past (Bryan Singer)

Bacchus

don ramo wrote: »

he didnt get out of prison, thats why the sentinels ended up destroying everything, wolverine was sent back to erase the future where he was sent back in the first place,

Nope, there are two timelines here. The original one and the one created when Wolverine is sent back (from the original timeline) to the 70's in DoFP.

In the original timeline, Magneto gets out (somehow) because we see him in the X-Men trilogy movies. We also must assume that the Sentinel program gets shut down (temporarily) at some point in the original timeline as we don't see them in it bar a reference to them in the training room in X3 (that actually links quite nicely with what we learn in DoFP).

don ramo wrote: »

so the actual question is, if the future has been altered and the sentinels didnt destroy everything, who went back to free magneto to stop the sentinels destroying everything :D

Different timelines. Wolverine is still sent back from the original timeline which ceased to exist once he 'woke up' - cementing the new timeline in place (the timeline where the sentinel program is shut down permanently).

If you want to start getting into the nitty gritty of time travel paradoxes, good luck to you, you'll never get the answers you want, only more questions. It's better to just accept the internal logic of the movie as the bible for how time travel works

pmasterson95

pixelburp wrote: »

I'm presuming the 10 minutes cut will involve

the previously reported scenes featuring a jailbreak of Rogue from one of the future prisons. All of the sub-plot involving her was cut, Anna Paquins character completely disappearing from the cinematic release (although you can see her in one of the early trailers)

Well it is called "The Rogue Cut" afaik......Ink would probably have appeared in those shots aswell. They showed him herded in at the very start.

don ramo

Bacchus wrote: »

Nope, there are two timelines here. The original one and the one created when Wolverine is sent back (from the original timeline) to the 70's in DoFP.

In the original timeline, Magneto gets out (somehow) because we see him in the X-Men trilogy movies. We also must assume that the Sentinel program gets shut down (temporarily) at some point in the original timeline as we don't see them in it bar a reference to them in the training room in X3 (that actually links quite nicely with what we learn in DoFP).



Different timelines. Wolverine is still sent back from the original timeline which ceased to exist once he 'woke up' - cementing the new timeline in place (the timeline where the sentinel program is shut down permanently).

If you want to start getting into the nitty gritty of time travel paradoxes, good luck to you, you'll never get the answers you want, only more questions. It's better to just accept the internal logic of the movie as the bible for how time travel works

well i was only making an observation on the question being asked, in that the wrong one was being asked

and also DOFP erased everything that happened in the original trilogy, thus why cyclops, who died in X3, was there at the end when logan was walking through the corridors,

singer reset the entire timeline with DOFP

Bacchus

don ramo wrote: »

well i was only making an observation on the question being asked, in that the wrong one was being asked

and also DOFP erased everything that happened in the original trilogy, thus why cyclops, who died in X3, was there at the end when logan was walking through the corridors,

singer reset the entire timeline with DOFP

Well I was only making an observation on your observation (which was incorrect - Magneto DID get out of prison, we see him in X-Men 1, 2 & 3). Both questions are valid too BTW, neither are the "wrong" question to ask. It's time travel! There's gonna be questions

The key thing here is that stuff happened with Magneto getting out of prison and the sentinel program stalling that we are never shown in the original timeline. Without Wolverine going back, we must assume Magneto got out by some other means. We must also assume, the original Sentinel program was packed away - all the while the newer Sentinels were being developed.

DOFP did not erase the original timeline exactly. All that stuff still happened but once Wolverine 'woke up' at the end of DOFP, everything that happened in the new timeline took hold. So, it's as if the original timeline never existed but the effects of going back in time from the original timeline were cemented in place simultaneously. It's really quite simple :P

With time travel it's always going to be easy to pick holes but I thought DOFP did it quite well, especially considering the inconsistencies that already exist throughout the X-Men movie universe.

don ramo

Bacchus wrote: »

Well I was only making an observation on your observation (which was incorrect - Magneto DID get out of prison, we see him in X-Men 1, 2 & 3). Both questions are valid too BTW, neither are the "wrong" question to ask. It's time travel! There's gonna be questions

DOFP did not erase the original timeline exactly. All that stuff still happened but once Wolverine 'woke up' at the end of DOFP, everything that happened in the new timeline took hold. So, it's as if the original timeline never existed but the effects of going back in time from the original timeline were cemented in place simultaneously. It's really quite simple :P

With time travel it's always going to be easy to pick holes but I thought DOFP did it quite well, especially considering the inconsistencies that already exist throughout the X-Men movie universe.

and cyclops just simply rose from the dead, as did xavier, who also died in X3 and was there even before the timeline was reset, also jean died, yet they all appeared in DOFP, so no, the original trilogy did not happen, some things here and there maybe, maybe 1 at best, cause jean became phoenix in 2, yet she was pretty happy at the end of DOFP walking to hall with cyclops,

so stop saying the same thing i already said, the timeline was reset, simple as

id love if they done the phoenix story again, but with singer on board, that retard rather made a complete balls of it, which is why id say singer reset the whole thing,

Nervous Wreck

don ramo wrote: »

and cyclops just simply rose from the dead, as did xavier, who also died in X3 and was there even before the timeline was reset, also jean died, yet they all appeared in DOFP, so no, the original trilogy did not happen, some things here and there maybe, maybe 1 at best, cause jean became phoenix in 2, yet she was pretty happy at the end of DOFP walking to hall with cyclops,

so stop saying the same thing i already said, the timeline was reset, simple as

id love if they done the phoenix story again, but with singer on board, that retard rather made a complete balls of it, which is why id say singer reset the whole thing,

Well, no, bacchus is correct; all of those things did happen, they've just been written over. The events of DOFP are made possible by Wolverine travelling back through time (kinda) and changing things. The existence of Wolverine from the original timeline and all his memories of that timeline, plus his knowledge of how to change events, compound the fact that the events of the original trilogy occurred. If they hadn't, Wolverine could never have had the knowledge to force change. What results are two possibilities: 1.) Wolverine's intervention has 'overwritten' the original trilogy (but not erased it, or he wouldn't have memories of it), or 2.) Wolverine's intervention has created a multiverse. Option 1 is obviously what Singer was going for cos it's more straightforward and brings the new DOFP timeline into canon.

pmasterson95

There isn't a reset. Just an alternate timeline. This is rather common with X-Men comics. Hell the character of Bishop is from a totally different timeline altogether in the comics. Think of it as Bishops future is the one that DOFP originates. Now they have reset into the 616 universe. Everything happened but it only happened to Wolverine. Colossus, Bishop, Jean Grey, Cyclops, Storm, Blink, Angel are all dead so obviously they can't remember the sentinels because the ones that exerienced the sentinel timeline are dead. The ones Wolverine meets at the end it never happened to these versions. Its just multiple universes.....plain and simple. If you find that complicated I would dissuade you from trying to follow the Summers-Grey family tree as at one stage Jean and Scott are joined by their children from alternate future timelines (including Rachel from DOFP timeline) who are barely younger than their own parents. This is one of the more simplistic timelines to follow.

Bacchus

don ramo wrote: »

and cyclops just simply rose from the dead, as did xavier, who also died in X3 and was there even before the timeline was reset, also jean died, yet they all appeared in DOFP, so no, the original trilogy did not happen, some things here and there maybe, maybe 1 at best, cause jean became phoenix in 2, yet she was pretty happy at the end of DOFP walking to hall with cyclops,

so stop saying the same thing i already said, the timeline was reset, simple as

id love if they done the phoenix story again, but with singer on board, that retard rather made a complete balls of it, which is why id say singer reset the whole thing,

Xavier was shown at the end of X3 to still be alive and was shown in the Wolverine movie alive and kicking. Both original timeline movies. Cyclops was not in the future of DOFP. Neither was Jean.

They returned at the end of DOFP because Wolverine went back and created the new timeline. A timeline in which, Jean and Cyclops do not die.

The original timeline did happen, but it ceased to exist. It's a very subtle difference to what you are saying (which is probably why you're confusing what I'm saying as "saying the same thing you are"). The events of the original timeline created the new timeline. In that regard, the original timeline DID exist. It just ceased to once Wolverine woke up. Also, Wolverines memories of the original timeline are preserved. There was no reset, a new timeline was created.

pmasterson95

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

Well, no, bacchus is correct; all of those things did happen, they've just been written over. The events of DOFP are made possible by Wolverine travelling back through time (kinda) and changing things. The existence of Wolverine from the original timeline and all his memories of that timeline, plus his knowledge of how to change events, compound the fact that the events of the original trilogy occurred. If they hadn't, Wolverine could never have had the knowledge to force change. What results are two possibilities: 1.) Wolverine's intervention has 'overwritten' the original trilogy (but not erased it, or he wouldn't have memories of it), or 2.) Wolverine's intervention has created a multiverse. Option 1 is obviously what Singer was going for cos it's more straightforward and brings the new DOFP timeline into canon.

I'd say 1 & 2 we have just switched to a different Universe from here on. The "original" still occurred, but we are now going to follow the revised timeline as our main "canon" timeline. Since X-Men isn't tied with Avengers/Iron Man etc. they can switch canonical timelines with no major issue.

pmasterson95

The others have explained better than me.



Worth noting tho in the Rogue we see at the end of DoFP has her white streak. She got that after the events of X-Men. So even in the new "revised" timeline the events or at least some of the events of X-Men may have still in fact happened to give her her white streak. Like Hank said "sometimes a ripple wont change the flow or current of the river." Scott and Jean obviously didn't die but I'd say that certain other events did occur even in this "revised" timeline that occured in the "original".

Bacchus

pmasterson95 wrote: »

The others have explained better than me.



Worth noting tho in the Rogue we see at the end of DoFP has her white streak. She got that after the events of X-Men. So even in the new "revised" timeline the events or at least some of the events of X-Men may have still in fact happened to give her her white streak. Like Hank said "sometimes a ripple wont change the flow or current of the river." Scott and Jean obviously didn't die but I'd say that certain other events did occur even in this "revised" timeline that occured in the "original".

It's actually one problem with that final scene in DOFP, they are now pigeon holed to ensure those characters are all alive and well in the year 2014. So, the adventures of McAvoy & Fassbender are constrained slightly. e.g. if they redo the Phoenix story, we know all those characters survive.

don ramo

overwritten, alternative timeline, reset, argument for arguments sake, either way some if not most of the events that we have witnessed in the original trilogy did not happen, as far as the end of DOFP say, no phoenix, no jean, cyclops or xavier deaths,

also Xavier did die at the end of X3, but he transferred his consciousness to another body,

don ramo

Bacchus wrote: »

It's actually one problem with that final scene in DOFP, they are now pigeon holed to ensure those characters are all alive and well in the year 2014. So, the adventures of McAvoy & Fassbender are constrained slightly. e.g. if they redo the Phoenix story, we know all those characters survive.

well mcavoy and fassbenders timeline hasnt changed, and seeing as who they play they will never die,

but you can set the phoenix storyline later, and have a different outcome, cyclops died cause yerman went of to make superman with singer, other than that he would have been in the film longer,

pmasterson95

Bacchus wrote: »

It's actually one problem with that final scene in DOFP, they are now pigeon holed to ensure those characters are all alive and well in the year 2014. So, the adventures of McAvoy & Fassbender are constrained slightly. e.g. if they redo the Phoenix story, we know all those characters survive.

They could swing that differently. One of the early theories was that X-Men Apocalypse could perhaps involve "Age of Apocalypse" timeline

Fan BingBing signed a 5 movie contract and from the comics Blink was best known from the AoA timeline. So while a long shot that could be a way to avoid it.

Alternatively they could technically use two Wolverines. The one who we have saw through all movies and remembers seeing Jean/Cyclops and co. die. Then of course theres this 1963 Wolverine that Mystique took out of the river. They could use this 1963 Wolverine and use that one and the 1963 timeline as the main continuity. Therefore as this timeline is different they could completely re-deal characters fates. This 1963 Wolverine has no adamantium yet. They could redraft his origins and if they do that

it would allow them to simultaneously alter the much maligned Deadpool origins that were created in Wolverine: Origins.

Bacchus

don ramo wrote: »

overwritten, alternative timeline, reset, argument for arguments sake, either way some if not most of the events that we have witnessed in the original trilogy did not happen, as far as the end of DOFP say, no phoenix, no jean, cyclops or xavier deaths,

also Xavier did die at the end of X3, but he transferred his consciousness to another body,

Not an argument for arguments sake. There is a subtle distinction between how you label it but it is important. Also, you are getting quite a few things wrong (e.g. saying Magneto never got out of prison in your first post that started this) and seem to be just ignoring the posts made disputing your claims that the original trilogy never happened.

What does "as far as the end of DOFP say, no phoenix, no jean, cyclops or xavier deaths" even mean? They died yes. Xavier came back. This is consistent in the future of DOFP. Once the new timeline takes hold and we jump to the present, yes those characters are all alive again. That does not mean the original timeline never happened.

don ramo wrote: »

well mcavoy and fassbenders timeline hasnt changed, and seeing as who they play they will never die,

but you can set the phoenix storyline later, and have a different outcome, cyclops died cause yerman went of to make superman with singer, other than that he would have been in the film longer,

I'm not just talking about those two though, in reference to the bit you quoted me, at the end of DOFP we see a lot of major characters alive and well. Considering that future X-Men movies are in essence prequels to this, we know that all these characters are safe. IMO, that limits the movies going forward. There is the freedom there now, thanks to DOFP, to tell all new stories of course. That's the great outcome of this movie. I just think that it may become a problem for them that they've shown all these characters in the future. It's like they all have a big 'immunity' sign over them now.

don ramo

Bacchus wrote: »

Not an argument for arguments sake. There is a subtle distinction between how you label it but it is important. Also, you are getting quite a few things wrong (e.g. saying Magneto never got out of prison in your first post that started this) and seem to be just ignoring the posts made disputing your claims that the original trilogy never happened.

What does "as far as the end of DOFP say, no phoenix, no jean, cyclops or xavier deaths" even mean? They died yes. Xavier came back. This is consistent in the future of DOFP. Once the new timeline takes hold and we jump to the present, yes those characters are all alive again. That does not mean the original timeline never happened.



I'm not just talking about those two though, in reference to the bit you quoted me, at the end of DOFP we see a lot of major characters alive and well. Considering that future X-Men movies are in essence prequels to this, we know that all these characters are safe. IMO, that limits the movies going forward. There is the freedom there now, thanks to DOFP, to tell all new stories of course. That's the great outcome of this movie. I just think that it may become a problem for them that they've shown all these characters in the future. It's like they all have a big 'immunity' sign over them now.

in my first post i said magneto didn't get out of prison cause the events with the sentinels happened, and he didn't get out to stop it from happening, which he didn't, he may have gotten out at some point, obviously, but he didn't get out the help stop that from happening in time, thus why the events in the film happened in the first place,

so jean being dead happened, yet here she is alive and well, happy out like the phoenix event never happened, which from my point of view seems the case, at the end of DOFP jean had not yet become phoenix,

how can them characters still be alive while also maintaining that the events of the orignal trilogy are to still apply going forward, that just sounds ridiculous, they have happened, but logan is the only one who can remember, those events have no place now going forward cause they have for the most part been rewritten,

and im not on about events within the universe being reset, im saying the franchise is being reset, there is no mention of alternative timelines in the film, its one affect effecting other events, within one timeline, singer has more or less reset the whole thing,

pah

IMO this is the same kind of alternate timeline that Abrahms has done with star trek. I believe they coexist in a multiverse environments.

Maybe that's the plan

Bacchus

don ramo wrote: »

in my first post i said magneto didn't get out of prison cause the events with the sentinels happened, and he didn't get out to stop it from happening, which he didn't, he may have gotten out at some point, obviously, but he didn't get out the help stop that from happening in time, thus why the events in the film happened in the first place,

Ok, you've elaborated a bit now on what you mean. In the first place, the other poster asked how did Magneto get out of prison if Wolverine never got sent back. You said he didn't get out of prison. I said he did cause you see him in the original X-Men trilogy, that we were just never shown how, it was irrelevant. Why could you not have just elaborated THEN that you only meant he did not get out for the events of this movie and saved us a lot of time!

Now that we're clear on that. Yes we've no idea how the events of the 1970s program played out without Wolverines intervention. I think it is safe to assume it was not a success but it was the platform for Trask industries to develop the super advanced one in secret until they launched a new Sentinel program some time after X-3. I'm pretty sure Xavier mentions in DOFP that the events at the Golden Gate bridge triggered this. This leads us to Wolverine needing to go back and create the new timeline.

don ramo wrote: »

so jean being dead happened, yet here she is alive and well, happy out like the phoenix event never happened, which from my point of view seems the case, at the end of DOFP jean had not yet become phoenix,

In the new timeline, Jean is clearly alive yes. That has no bearing on the original timeline though. Events in this new timeline played out differently. That is perfectly ok - though as I said already, they're kinda pigeon holed now to ensure she is alive at the end of the Phoenix story whenever they do it.

don ramo wrote: »

how can them characters still be alive while also maintaining that the events of the orignal trilogy are to still apply going forward, that just sounds ridiculous, they have happened, but logan is the only one who can remember, those events have no place now going forward cause they have for the most part been rewritten,

You're missing the point (or refusing to accept it because you even acknowledge Wolverine has the memories), the original timeline happened BUT it ceased to exist once Wolverine 'woke up' and the new timeline was cemented in place. It is explained in the movie before they send Wolverine back. Yes, it is a bit flimsy but that is the internal logic of the movie. That is how time travel works in DOFP.

Try think of it linearly...
Original Timeline:
Wolverine Origins -> X-Men First Class -> X1 -> X2 -> X3 -> The Wolverine -> DOFP (future scenes)

That is the original timeline with the final battle in DOFP being the conclusion of that timeline.

New Timeline...
Wolverine Origins -> X-Men First Class -> DOFP (1970's scenes) -> ...

The new timeline branches away from the original once Wolverine wakes up in the water bed with the girl. That cannot happen with the events in the original timeline taking place. The original timeline CREATED the new one, therefore it existed! It ceased to exist though so whatever happens now with McAvoy, Fassbender & co is up for grabs, they can rewrite events however they want.

don ramo wrote: »

and im not on about events within the universe being reset, im saying the franchise is being reset, there is no mention of alternative timelines in the film, its one affect effecting other events, within one timeline, singer has more or less reset the whole thing,

There is. It is explained to Wolverine before he goes back that both timelines (past and present) coexist until he wakes up and then the new timeline takes hold.

Ultimately this is a reset of the complicated continuity that X-3 created but it's not a straight up reset. You don't watch the original timeline movies and go "well none of that ever happened", cause it did and it led to DOFP where those characters took a final stand to try and fix the past.

pmasterson95

Actually Bacchus I doubt that Wolverine Origins is part of revised timeline? Revised timeline Wolverine has bone-claws. Not the adamantium he had at the end of origins.

Bacchus

pmasterson95 wrote: »

Actually Bacchus I doubt that Wolverine Origins is part of revised timeline? Revised timeline Wolverine has bone-claws. Not the adamantium he had at the end of origins.

Actually I think you're right, was that mostly set in the 70s/80s? That series of events will have changed since Stryker is actually Mystique in the new timeline.

don ramo

Bacchus wrote: »

There is. It is explained to Wolverine before he goes back that both timelines (past and present) coexist until he wakes up and then the new timeline takes hold.

so when he woke the old timeline is erased, so many of the events we have witnessed in X1-3 may no longer apply, even magneto being broke out of prison by logan could have completely changed the timeline,

cause as i said he got out eventually anyway, but the events of DOFP would unquestionably alter the timeline in massive ways that we dont know, which is why i said the whole thing could more or less be reset,

most time travel logic is that small changes may have little to no effect on the future, DOFP was a massive change, so the effects would be much larger also,

my main point is that in future films i think we can more or less forget the events of the original X1-3 films, mainly the 3rd one, because of what happened in this film,

Bacchus

don ramo wrote: »

so when he woke the old timeline is erased, so many of the events we have witnessed in X1-3 may no longer apply, even magneto being broke out of prison by logan could have completely changed the timeline,

cause as i said he got out eventually anyway, but the events of DOFP would unquestionably alter the timeline in massive ways that we dont know, which is why i said the whole thing could more or less be reset,

most time travel logic is that small changes may have little to no effect on the future, DOFP was a massive change, so the effects would be much larger also,

my main point is that in future films i think we can more or less forget the events of the original X1-3 films, mainly the 3rd one, because of what happened in this film,

You're nearly there. To say the original timeline is erased is ok as long you understand they still happened (something you've been refuting). This new timeline could not have come into being without the original. The actions of the characters in the original timeline dramatically changes the course of events in the past, creating the new timeline. Also, this is the X-Men, we could easily see the original timeline appear again

To be a pedant... I pointed out that Magneto got out eventually. You said he never got out and only after a couple of posts you retconned your stance. I never said either that events of DOFP would NOT alter the timeline at all, the opposite in fact - it created a whole NEW timeline!

If that was your main point all along, you did not do a good job expressing it. I mostly agree with what you say in this post but I don't think the events in the original X-Men movie (or Wolverine spin offs) can be forgotten about. Their story culminated in DOFP resulting the creation of a new timeline. A timeline in which any future X-Men movies are free to explore new stories not tied to the original timeline.

pmasterson95

Bacchus wrote: »

Actually I think you're right, was that mostly set in the 70s/80s? That series of events will have changed since Stryker is actually Mystique in the new timeline.

Not 100% sure but the claws indicate this is before his adamantium procedure. Maybe Mystique leaves him with Stryker and it happens again or my own theory

Wolverine gets equipped with the adamantium maybe from Apocalypse. Not dissimilar to how Angel became Archangel in the comics and Wolverine with adamantium becomes one of the Horsemen

I'd imagine Wolverine Origins will be almost completely re-done. Fox cant use any of the Avengers so will have to resort to other X-Men characters. The fact stand alone films for Gambit AND Deadpool (both of which appeared in Origins, except now Kitsch has been replaced by Tatum for Remy) are in the pipeline makes me think both characters will be totally re-done. Especially if they want Gambit to cameo in Apocalypse. And Deadpools origins were incredibly poorly recieved so if they really want the Deadpool movie to work they NEED to redo his background.


I'm not sure if the years match exactly right but for the studio it'd be best to exclude Wolverine Origins from the revised timeline as it then clears the deck for two fan favourites (Gambit & Deadpool) and showing Wolverine recieving his claws in a different manner would help solidify the whole timeline issues that are confusing some fans.

don ramo

Bacchus wrote: »

You're nearly there. To say the original timeline is erased is ok as long you understand they still happened (something you've been refuting). This new timeline could not have come into being without the original. The actions of the characters in the original timeline dramatically changes the course of events in the past, creating the new timeline. Also, this is the X-Men, we could easily see the original timeline appear again

To be a pedant... I pointed out that Magneto got out eventually. You said he never got out and only after a couple of posts you retconned your stance. I never said either that events of DOFP would NOT alter the timeline at all, the opposite in fact - it created a whole NEW timeline!

If that was your main point all along, you did not do a good job expressing it. I mostly agree with what you say in this post but I don't think the events in the original X-Men movie (or Wolverine spin offs) can be forgotten about. Their story culminated in DOFP resulting the creation of a new timeline. A timeline in which any future X-Men movies are free to explore new stories not tied to the original timeline.

well yeah they happened, i can go watch them now, the DVDs didnt disappear, its just for X-Men apocalypse there really is no need to remember what happened in them, cause due to what happened in DOFP they are now irrelevant in this new timeline,

not my fault you couldn't follow my broken logic;):D:D

Bacchus

don ramo wrote: »

well yeah they happened, i can go watch them now, the DVDs didnt disappear, its just for X-Men apocalypse there really is no need to remember what happened in them, cause due to what happened in DOFP they are now irrelevant in this new timeline,

not my fault you couldn't follow my broken logic;):D:D

It will be interesting to see if they do actually break completely from the original timeline. This is the X-Men after all so anything is possible, though for the movies I imagine they won't want to complicate things further by going back there. My guess would be though at the Apocalypse story (which never happened in the original timeline) will come about in the new timeline due to the events in DOFP (in the comics, alternate timelines were involved when Apocalypse choose to reveal himself).

JP Liz V1

Is Magneto Peter aka Quicksilver’s dad?

FunLover18

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Is Magneto Peter aka Quicksilver’s dad?

Yes

helimachoptor

Can anything kill the sentinels?

OwaynOTT

helimachoptor wrote: »

Can anything kill the sentinels?

They drop by the dozen in the cartoon. Heck even Jubilee can take them out.



On another note, there's a rogue cut being released in Jully of this. Apparently there's an extra 20 minutes or so of footage with Rogue.
Looking forward to it after watching the directors cut of Daredevil, which was vastly improved by the extra material.

Turtyturd

OwaynOTT wrote: »

They drop by the dozen in the cartoon. Heck even Jubilee can take them out.

Different Sentinel types, no?

The giant ones in the cartoon would have been Mark (gonna go with VI) while the ones in the film would have been based on the Nimrod types, which I don't think could be destroyed in the cartoon either.