WRH proposed downgrade - protest on Saturday the 23rd of Feb

Psychedelic

Deputy John Deasy has said that the senior consultants at WRH involved in the negotiations with the region's other hospitals are inept and are scapegoating politicians for their own failures. Deasy, who has been the most vocal public supporter of maintaining the regional hospital's status believes people who work at the regional hospital need to understand the background to the current situation and begin questioning the individuals who are responsible for representing WRH.

He said, "I have arranged meetings in the past with these senior consultants from Waterford along with the CEO and senior officials from the HSE and government TD's from the region. The performance of these senior consultants was underwhelming to say the least. They are the ones who needed to make the argument based on medical best practice and they failed miserably. In my opinion others from the regional hospital need to step in immediately to rescue this situation before its too late."

Deasy contends that the general issue of Waterford Regional Hospital and the South East hospital grouping is not as simple as it might seem. He maintains that some of the other consultants and hospitals within the South East Hospital group are leaning towards leaving the existing structure and creating partnerships with hospitals in Dublin where university hospital facilities are available.

He said, "That is their choice if the Hospital Trust structure goes ahead. The senior consultants at WRH have lost the debate with Kilkenny and are losing the debate with Wexford."

Deasy and the other Waterford TDs were heavily criticised for not attending a meeting last week about the future of Waterford Regional Hospital.

Deasy said, "I've never actually experienced anything like it in my political career. I had texted, emailed and spoke to some of the senior consultants in question and informed them that I wasn't available to attend the meeting. They accepted my apologies but for some reason chose not to pass that

http://www.waterford-today.ie/waterford-today-news/18226-deasy-condemns-wrh-senior-consultants-18226.html

Apparently the majority of consultants in Wexford have last night voted in favour of keeping the South East hospital network, so Deasy looks to be wrong on that point.

Max Powers

Psychedelic wrote: »

http://www.waterford-today.ie/waterford-today-news/18226-deasy-condemns-wrh-senior-consultants-18226.html

Apparently the majority of consultants in Wexford have last night voted in favour of keeping the South East hospital network, so Deasy looks to be wrong on that point.

Mattie McGrath was on WLR this morning, said south tipp polticians are behind WRH even though some services have already been cut from clonmel to WRH. I recognise the politicans and doctors are different but we need as much people on board inc TDs from all over the SE

Deise Tom

leopard trek wrote: »

but with the rest of them take full wage + expenses?

Sinn Fein can dress up or down what ever way they want, but the simple fact is that their councillors, TD's and Senators get EXACTLY the same as any other person in a similar job that is in any party. The only difference is that when they sign up to stand for the job they sign up to give the money they are due to the party and in return the party gives back a portion of it. Where there might be a difference between Sinn Fein and the rest is that they seldom if ever head off on junkets like others that are in a party.

Deise Tom

Baby4 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Spot on, John blamed everyone but himself for not turning up at the WIT. If he was interested in Waterford or seen to be interested in Waterford, he could easily have got out of the meeting in Dublin. Whether he was working away on the issue before or after the meeting has little or no relavance. Something new could easily have been brought up at the meeting and there was no TD at the meeting to answer the questions.

I think i might have asked this before and dont know if i got an answer or not, Does anyone know if City, Town and COunty Councillors got an invite to the meeting and how many if any showed up.

Psychedelic

That's it exactly Deise Tom. The fact that Deasy had those things to say on WLR gives even more reason to why he should have attended the meeting in WIT.

Someone said on here, or Twitter/Facebook, can't remember, that about half the City Councillors were at the meeting. I think there were some Co. Councillors at the meeting (Joe Conway from Tramore?). Don't know if Town & County Councillors were invited but you'd presume they were, or at the very least heard about it from someone else.

Dunmoreroader

This is what we're up against folks;
http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/local/new-plan-for-st-luke-s-hospital-1-4449210

Deise Tom

Psychedelic wrote: »

That's it exactly Deise Tom. The fact that Deasy had those things to say on WLR gives even more reason to why he should have attended the meeting in WIT.

Someone said on here, or Twitter/Facebook, can't remember, that about half the City Councillors were at the meeting. I think there were some Co. Councillors at the meeting (Joe Conway from Tramore?). Don't know if Town & County Councillors were invited but you'd presume they were, or at the very least heard about it from someone else.

If the County/City/Town Councillors were not invited, and by that I mean all of them as people from all areas of the county attend W.R.H. then it was a massive mistake by the organisers. In my view we have too many of them, but while we have them they should be invited to such events and be asked to lobby those in higher positions for the cause.

By the way did anybody hear Ciara Conway on the radio this morning. The fact that she did not resign the party whip if FG and Lab go ahead and pull the plug on what happens at WRH was not a surprize, but what was is that she said she did not know much about the march in Waterford on Saturday and said something about how she was waiting for them to get in contact with her or her office with the details. Where in the name of God has this woman been with the past week. Sometimes some of the stuff she comes out with absolutly amase me. Has she her ear on the ground at all or does she see herself above the rest of us and that she has to be check with to ensure that she can attend such events. Do the people of Waterford know what they actually voted for last February.

fuzzy dunlop

Dunmoreroader wrote: »

This is what we're up against folks;
http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/local/new-plan-for-st-luke-s-hospital-1-4449210

Surprisingly objective for the KK people I thought apart from the parochial dig. Big Phil strikes again I see.

Dunmoreroader

Are you kidding? I thought it was akin to The Phoenix writting the headlines in the News & Star!:)

fuzzy dunlop

Dunmoreroader wrote: »

Are you kidding? I thought it was akin to The Phoenix writting the headlines in the News & Star!:)

I take your point but phoenix is an op piece not headlines per se and despite being controversial for some at least goes on the right general direction regarding planning etc. The KK people on the other hand can be borderline bigoted.Check out their story on traveller numbers in KK a couple of weeks ago not to mention the infamous Hitler's henchmen articles

Swinng

Just reading that column it actually gives more reasons for St Luke's to stay within the South East and the only reason not too is so the consultants look good working within a University Hospital. So if WIT was upgraded to University they would be happy to stay within the structure.

Dunmoreroader

I like the Phoenix and agree with much of what he says. I was just making an analogy to show up the lack of separation between news and opinion in the KK People

fricatus

Swinng wrote: »

Just reading that column it actually gives more reasons for St Luke's to stay within the South East and the only reason not too is so the consultants look good working within a University Hospital. So if WIT was upgraded to University they would be happy to stay within the structure.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Upgrade WIT to University and WRH to University Hospital. Problem solved!

I really don't understand this attitude from St Luke's. I really don't. They don't like working with WRH and don't like playing second fiddle to Waterford. Fair enough, but the problem they face is that the only place where it's going to be the biggest hospital is Kilkenny! Or maybe Carlow-Kilkenny. Within any sort of region, it's going to be one of the smaller hospitals.

Do they think therefore that being part of a group with the Dublin hospitals (where it would be ranked somewhere between seventh and tenth behind Beaumont, Blanchardstown, the Mater, Crumlin, Vincent's, Tallaght, and maybe Naas, Navan and Drogheda) is better than being part of a SE group where it's the second-largest?

That's the argument from the point of view of the hospital's own self interest... the argument from the point of view of patients living in Kilkenny is even more cut and dried! Waterford is closer (to all parts of Kilkenny) than Dublin!

Do they think St Luke's would be upgraded as a result of throwing its hat in with Dublin? That's the only reasoning that makes sense to me, but I think if this all goes ahead, they're in for a nasty shock. They'll just be seen as an annoyance from down the country. Better the divil ye know lads!

Bards

fricatus wrote: »

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Upgrade WIT to University and WRH to University Hospital. Problem solved!

I really don't understand this attitude from St Luke's. I really don't. They don't like working with WRH and don't like playing second fiddle to Waterford. Fair enough, but the problem they face is that the only place where it's going to be the biggest hospital is Kilkenny! Or maybe Carlow-Kilkenny. Within any sort of region, it's going to be one of the smaller hospitals.

Do they think therefore that being part of a group with the Dublin hospitals (where it would be ranked somewhere between seventh and tenth behind Beaumont, Blanchardstown, the Mater, Crumlin, Vincent's, Tallaght, and maybe Naas, Navan and Drogheda) is better than being part of a SE group where it's the second-largest?

That's the argument from the point of view of the hospital's own self interest... the argument from the point of view of patients living in Kilkenny is even more cut and dried! Waterford is closer (to all parts of Kilkenny) than Dublin!

Do they think St Luke's would be upgraded as a result of throwing its hat in with Dublin? That's the only reasoning that makes sense to me, but I think if this all goes ahead, they're in for a nasty shock. They'll just be seen as an annoyance from down the country. Better the divil ye know lads!

.... or is it the fact that Consultants are paid more in Cork & Dublin than in WRH?.... or is it a case of looking after themselves first and their patients a distant 2nd

Sully

Seeing as this has become a second discussion on WRH, ill merge it with the original!

sparkling sea

Deise Tom wrote: »

Sinn Fein can dress up or down what ever way they want, but the simple fact is that their councillors, TD's and Senators get EXACTLY the same as any other person in a similar job that is in any party. The only difference is that when they sign up to stand for the job they sign up to give the money they are due to the party and in return the party gives back a portion of it.

No better party for spinning than SF

7upfree

fricatus wrote: »

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Upgrade WIT to University and WRH to University Hospital. Problem solved!

From March 14th, 2008. Still waiting.

http://www.munster-express.ie/local-news/fine-gaels-university-pledge/

Fine Gael nationally has finally, officially, pledged to join in the fight for a university for Waterford. And its Education Spokesman Brian Hayes promised this week not to drop the cudgel until it is delivered.

Sully

7upfree wrote: »

From March 14th, 2008. Still waiting.

http://www.munster-express.ie/local-news/fine-gaels-university-pledge/

Fine Gael nationally has finally, officially, pledged to join in the fight for a university for Waterford. And its Education Spokesman Brian Hayes promised this week not to drop the cudgel until it is delivered.

This discussion is not about WIT University Status and should not be dragged into such a discussion either. That issue has been addressed by our local reps and referred to and discussed in great detail in its own dedicated thread. The issue of WRH being downgraded is very serious and such discussions should not be hijacked for any other matter.

Any problems with this, please send me a PM instead of further derailing this thread.

Chiparus

jad2007 wrote: »

I heard it,

He made a few points

Firstly he said in relation to not attending the meeting he said that he had to be at the Public Accounts Committee hearing in Dublin. He said that he notified the consultants of this in advance but they failed to tell the meeting that he couldnt attend. He called this the "weirdest thing that ever happened to me in politics"

His next main point was that he had been working on this issue since last November and that basically some people were point scoring but trying to maintain none of the TD's were working on the issue.

He said that it was not up to the government to decide which hospitals were in which grouping and that consulatants in Kilkenny were in favour of leaving the group.

He then laid the blame for this at the feet of the consultants in Waterford and said they were impossible to deal with and had very high opinions of themselves. He also said that their performance in negotiations was "underwhelming"

It was announced at the meeting , he is just an idiot who Kenny hates and if closing WRH gets at Deasy , it will be closed.

Chiparus

Bards wrote: »

.... or is it the fact that Consultants are paid more in Cork & Dublin than in WRH?.... or is it a case of looking after themselves first and their patients a distant 2nd

Explain please, seeing as most consultants have homes in the south east, seeing as the consultants in Wexford waterford and south tip are fighting to keep services in Waterford??

Think about it.

Sully

Chiparus wrote: »

It was announced at the meeting , he is just an idiot who Kenny hates and if closing WRH gets at Deasy , it will be closed.

That's such a stupid statement to make. Kenny has nothing to do with the hospital being closed and you can be damn sure that he wont do something like this just for politics.

Deise Tom

Sully wrote: »

That's such a stupid statement to make. Kenny has nothing to do with the hospital being closed and you can be damn sure that he wont do something like this just for politics.

But he has. He could very easily issue a statement in person or through Deasy or Coffey or any of the other FG TD's in the South East telling the people of the region that they have nothing to fear. The HSE or who-ever could decide to close part of it, but the government could always overrule them.

Sully

Deise Tom wrote: »

But he has. He could very easily issue a statement in person or through Deasy or Coffey or any of the other FG TD's in the South East telling the people of the region that they have nothing to fear. The HSE or who-ever could decide to close part of it, but the government could always overrule them.

He hasn't as of yet, anyway. Kenny has nothing to do with this as it stands. James Reilly ordered the report and he doesn't know the contents or its recommendations. Its until he receives it and then goes to cabinet will Kenny know about it.

Chiparus

I actually believe decisions are made , then reports are commissioned to make findings to support the decision.

Morte

fricatus wrote: »

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Upgrade WIT to University and WRH to University Hospital. Problem solved!

I really don't understand this attitude from St Luke's. I really don't. They don't like working with WRH and don't like playing second fiddle to Waterford. Fair enough, but the problem they face is that the only place where it's going to be the biggest hospital is Kilkenny! Or maybe Carlow-Kilkenny. Within any sort of region, it's going to be one of the smaller hospitals.

Do they think therefore that being part of a group with the Dublin hospitals (where it would be ranked somewhere between seventh and tenth behind Beaumont, Blanchardstown, the Mater, Crumlin, Vincent's, Tallaght, and maybe Naas, Navan and Drogheda) is better than being part of a SE group where it's the second-largest?

That's the argument from the point of view of the hospital's own self interest... the argument from the point of view of patients living in Kilkenny is even more cut and dried! Waterford is closer (to all parts of Kilkenny) than Dublin!

Do they think St Luke's would be upgraded as a result of throwing its hat in with Dublin? That's the only reasoning that makes sense to me, but I think if this all goes ahead, they're in for a nasty shock. They'll just be seen as an annoyance from down the country. Better the divil ye know lads!

Given the greater distance between Kilkenny and Dublin than to Waterford there's presumably less scope to move operations to the main hospital. The Kilkenny consultants are maybe being pragmatic. They know they're going to be downsized but the loss is less by joining with Dublin rather than Waterford. Reading between the lines in Deasy's comments and one or two other pieces I wonder were there some Waterford consultants who were rather smug at the prospect of gobbling up Kilkenny. They now find themselves outmanouevred and the bigger fish of Cork and Dublin are happy to get an unexpected free lunch.

None of the above deals with patient welfare of course. To be honest I haven't a clue about that. I wouldn't rule out that concentrating services in Cork and Dublin might make sense. But it doesn't make sense to me if one of the biggest hospitals in the country gets gutted first while a lot of the micro hospitals are still open.

Max Powers

Chiparus wrote: »

I actually believe decisions are made , then reports are commissioned to make findings to support the decision.

second that. any fool can get a report to say what they want it to say.

dunphy3

wellboytoo wrote: »

Say's you , based on solid evidence, or blind loyalty to the FG party?

KK do not want to be associated with WRH for what they see as the future threat of them being subsumed into the Waterford area, as they have the head office for the southeastern region and any clear thinking ( sic) government will in a time of cutbacks put the management and frontline in the same place as should have been done day one, only parochial politics took centre stage again.

i will be at the protest on saturday,but yes there is always a but?? last year when it was mooted that kilkenny st lukes hospital be downgraded and some services transfered to wrh there was not a peep out of the waterford td councillers ect so now when kilkenny wants to join with a hopital in dublin everyone is against it .guestion where is the talks with kilkenny docters???????????????

Deise Tom

Sully wrote: »

He hasn't as of yet, anyway. Kenny has nothing to do with this as it stands. James Reilly ordered the report and he doesn't know the contents or its recommendations. Its until he receives it and then goes to cabinet will Kenny know about it.

Is that the same report that Billy McCarthy said on Deise AM that he saw with Maurice Cummins. If it is, then that is a very stupid statement from you. Its nearly as stupid as the one made by a FF minister in the last government, might have been Brian Cowan, who claimed he had not read some report and was making coments on it.

Sully

Deise Tom wrote: »

Is that the same report that Billy McCarthy said on Deise AM that he saw with Maurice Cummins. If it is, then that is a very stupid statement from you. Its nearly as stupid as the one made by a FF minister in the last government, might have been Brian Cowan, who claimed he had not read some report and was making coments on it.

I'm not sure I follow what your saying? Billy Mc had a copy of the report?

Premier

For such a hot topic, there not much feedback on the kilkenny forum or wexford forum regarding this serious matter,