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Ash Dieback Disease (Chalara fraxinea) in Ireland

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 931 ✭✭✭periodictable


    Six more UK counties

    http://www.defra.gov.uk/news/2012/11/07/ash-disease-in-six-further-counties/

    so who's going to carry the can for the spread in Ireland? I seem to remember a time when Diarmuid mcAree boasted of burning consignments of lumber on the Drogheda docks if even a little bark was found.
    Why and who has allowed our plant health inspections to become so lax?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,907 ✭✭✭✭CJhaughey


    Its not just plant health, its every aspect of the non-existent biosecurity here.
    This time its Chalara, ten years ago it was Foot and Mouth.
    Whats it going to be next?
    Ask the Dept why it took them 9mths to find it here when the first case was reported in February in the UK?
    Plant material was imported from the same Dutch nurseries...
    Its just the EU thinking it is one big homogenous state and not having any kind of responsibility when it comes to individual states biosecurity measures.
    You can be sure if anyone had tried to ban imports they would have a hard time before the shíte hit the fan.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    smccarrick wrote: »
    Sorry, the hyperlink got stripped somehow.

    www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/1107/1224326240854.html

    In addition to the 10 cases yesterday, another 4 this morning..........

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/1107/1224326240854.html

    "Minister of State for Forestry Shane McEntee said no trace of the disease had been found in the remaining seven sites. However, plants on all 11 sites were destroyed as a safety measure and a further 20,000 plants adjacent to those plants were also destroyed."

    you had me quaking in my boots, ;)

    it appears to be still only the initial site and three others (from the same consignment of dutch trees) giving a total of 4 infected sites in total, so far.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    CJhaughey wrote: »
    Its not just plant health, its every aspect of the non-existent biosecurity here.
    This time its Chalara, ten years ago it was Foot and Mouth.
    Whats it going to be next?
    Ask the Dept why it took them 9mths to find it here when the first case was reported in February in the UK?
    Plant material was imported from the same Dutch nurseries...
    Its just the EU thinking it is one big homogenous state and not having any kind of responsibility when it comes to individual states biosecurity measures.
    You can be sure if anyone had tried to ban imports they would have a hard time before the shíte hit the fan.

    agreed totally, there are some important issues that are outside of the homogenous state idea for the EU. Our ash has a unique makeup now, after all unique things like cheese get protection:

    Protected Designation of Origin (PDO) and Protected Geographical Indication (PGI)http://ec.europa.eu/agriculture/quality/

    The departments tree health addressed here:

    http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/forestservice/foresthealthandseeds/


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,034 ✭✭✭tabby aspreme


    I planted 10,000 ash, mostly Dutch imports, in 2010, I wonder will dept forester be around to check them, does anyone know which nursery supplied the infected ones, probably best not to mention names on here, a PM would be fine, thanks


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    if I were you I would get on to your local forestry inspector to get a definitive answer and test pdq.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    just noticed these nuggets:

    "In October 2012, Fera scientists confirmed a small number of cases in East Anglia in ash trees which do not appear to have any association with recently supplied nursery stock."

    and

    "C. fraxinea is being treated as a quarantine pest under national emergency measures"

    "Thanks to everyone who is out surveying sites across the UK this weekend for signs of ash dieback"

    http://www.forestry.gov.uk/chalara

    "Confirmed findings:

    Nursery sites - 15
    Recently planted sites - 39
    Wider environment - 61"


    extrapolating from those figures of:

    1 infected nursery site to 2 infected recent plantings to 4 infected wider environment sites

    to what we have here with 4 infected recent plantings

    means we could have 8 infected wider environment sites!!!!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,121 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    Just looking through some of my Ash, and am wondering how does one distinguish leaf death due to Chalara infection from normal leaf death due to Autumnal Fall?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Its crown die-back you're looking for, not normal leaf fall. Several related fungus are endemic on ash and spread via leaf litter- but do not cause crown die-back in the way Chalara does.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 39 treefan


    its so depressing..
    got a field of 5 year old ash and they are growing so well and look amazing:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,121 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    smccarrick wrote: »
    Its crown die-back you're looking for, not normal leaf fall. Several related fungus are endemic on ash and spread via leaf litter- but do not cause crown die-back in the way Chalara does.

    Doesn't answer my question..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    Good question as its easy to spot in the summer, less obvious to spot at this time of year with leaf fall compounding the problem.

    I compiled details of known symptoms from further up this thread that may help us, but I'm sure more details need to be added:

    The mushrooms should now be gone due to frosts. To my eye the leaves of infected plants look a bit more contorted, curled and twisted than normally shed leaves, but I would not rely on that alone for diagnosis as it would be too easy to make a mistake. I think I would be looking more for combinations of more progressed symptoms of the disease such as dieback of the twigs, the diamond shaped mark on the stem at branch junctions and wood discolouration.

    pictures of symptoms here:

    page 9 infected twig detail
    page 10 stem damage
    page 12 wood discolouration

    http://www.teagasc.ie/publications/2012/1121/Heinrich_Loesing.pdf

    and detailed symptom videos to watch:





    I get the impression (rightly/wrongly) that the dept are not relying on these symptoms alone and are doing lab tests to comfirm diagnosis (I hope)


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    Oldtree wrote: »
    Good question as its easy to spot in the summer, less obvious to spot at this time of year with leaf fall compounding the problem.

    I compiled details of known symptoms from further up this thread that may help us, but I'm sure more details need to be added:

    The mushrooms should now be gone due to frosts. To my eye the leaves of infected plants look a bit more contorted, curled and twisted than normally shed leaves, but I would not rely on that alone for diagnosis as it would be too easy to make a mistake. I think I would be looking more for combinations of more progressed symptoms of the disease such as dieback of the twigs, the diamond shaped mark on the stem at branch junctions and wood discolouration.

    pictures of symptoms here:

    page 9 infected twig detail
    page 10 stem damage
    page 12 wood discolouration

    http://www.teagasc.ie/publications/2012/1121/Heinrich_Loesing.pdf

    and detailed symptom videos to watch:





    I get the impression (rightly/wrongly) that the dept are not relying on these symptoms alone and are doing lab tests to comfirm diagnosis (I hope)

    Portable DNA tests are possible. I hope our gov invest in these.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20229813

    Northern Ireland is being searched for the fungus.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 231 ✭✭ucdperson


    It is notable from the BBC link posted by robp above that the border can be easily spotted on a plot of ash trees, reflecting different forestry policies?

    _64019185_ash_tree_6245nov.gif


  • Registered Users Posts: 380 ✭✭manjou


    There was a man on bbc morning programme from uk department today.He said that they probably wont persist with slash and burn and just have to live with it and breed from the ash that survive as 1% appear immune to diease.He also said it spreads at abbout 12 miles a year so should reach me in 2 or 3 years from leitrim.


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    The press release yesterday also stated that they don't intend to destroy any mature ash- that only juvenile stands would be targeted, and best practices would be studied to try to encourage identification of those specimens who have relative genetic immunity to the disease.

    Asiatic ash is now considered immune- so even if its a 1% level of immunity- which sounds low- its probably sufficient to recreate our native ash, particularly given the diverse nature of it in informal uses all over the country.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,167 ✭✭✭TopTec


    Yeah, I watched that expert on the Beeb this morning. very depressing listening to him. He clearly knew his subject and is the first I have heard admit there is nothing that can be done and we will have to let the disease run it's course.

    Interestingly, he thinks we should not cut down diseased trees as they are habitats for masses of other creepy crawlies. Just let nature run its course.

    I don't look forward to a gradually rotting and bare summer landscape though.


    TT


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    robp wrote: »
    Portable DNA tests are possible. I hope our gov invest in these.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20229813

    Northern Ireland is being searched for the fungus.

    see pages 4 and 5 in this PDF for full details of the machines being used, a Smartcycler Genie II:

    http://www.fera.defra.gov.uk/news/documents/feraSolutions4.pdf

    and Michael Viney speaks again, eloquent as ever:

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2012/1110/1224326387712.html


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭Oldtree




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    ucdperson wrote: »
    It is notable from the BBC link posted by robp above that the border can be easily spotted on a plot of ash trees, reflecting different forestry policies?

    _64019185_ash_tree_6245nov.gif

    It may not be policy that has caused this, more that the land owner is going for short term rewards ie sitka. Could you imagine eg. oak forests being planted on a large scale in ireland? That requires a mindset change to rewarding your great grandchildren.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    Here's another video about ash dieback this time it's someone from Nottingham University
    http://youtu.be/DaYPjQE3Wtw
    TopTec wrote: »
    Yeah, I watched that expert on the Beeb this morning. very depressing listening to him. He clearly knew his subject and is the first I have heard admit there is nothing that can be done and we will have to let the disease run it's course.

    yellowlabrador's youtube link posted earlier is worth a look as the video seems to suggest that there is nothing we can do and just accept what is happening as this is part of a natural cycle, albeit augmented by our own lack of bio security, but perhaps also helped by the wind as they are seeming to point to in the UK for infections occuring nowhere near recent plantings.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,121 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    smccarrick wrote: »
    Asiatic ash is now considered immune- so even if its a 1% level of immunity- which sounds low- its probably sufficient to recreate our native ash, particularly given the diverse nature of it in informal uses all over the country.

    What is the particular Ash variety or genus or whatever that is native to IE? I am seeing so many Latin names at the moment and would like to know what is likely to be the hedgerow Ash of ancient Hurley fame.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    TomOnBoard wrote: »
    What is the particular Ash variety or genus or whatever that is native to IE? I am seeing so many Latin names at the moment and would like to know what is likely to be the hedgerow Ash of ancient Hurley fame.

    Ireland's native ash tree is known in Latin as-

    Fraxinus excelsior L.

    Its commonly known as the European Ash- and is the same ash as you'll find in a range going all the way across the UK, France, Holland, Germany, Poland, and across up into the Nordic countries. This is known as a range for a species- and where in the range a particular grouping is found, is the provenance. Trees in a particular area (provenance) while genetically similar to trees hundreds or even thousands of miles away- will have adaptations associated with where they are found- climatic/site or otherwise.

    Fraxinus is the umbrella family name for the various ash members
    excelsior is the subfamily
    L. is the guy who put together the naming structures for animals and plants (a Swedish guy called Linnaeus)

    There are submembers of the Fraxinus Excelsior grouping- which may not be native to Ireland at all (such as the Fraxinus excelsior 'jaspidea' that you'll find in many garden centres- colloquailly known as the 'golden ash'- its an ornamental ash with beautiful colourings, very forgiving of exposed sites, unlike our Irish ash, which has a logarithmic reduction in annual incremental growth associated with the site exposure rating).

    There are other cousins of the Fraxinus excelsior not native to Ireland, but here nonetheless-

    Fraxinus olaceae (the olive tree native to Spain/Portugal/Italy etc)
    Fraxinus americana- native to the East Coast in the US
    Fraxinus japonica- the ornamental Japanese ash etc etc etc

    There isn't a single Asiatic ash- there are over 20 different distinct branches of the family- some of which aren't even trees (the lilac family- are also close relatives).

    All members of the Fraxinus umbrella encompassing many many different types of trees and plants, appear to either be susceptible to Chalara, or to have been susceptible to it at some stage in the past and have developed a resistance to it subsequently.

    There is a good Wikipedia article on the various ash families (with some glaring inaccuracies) here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraxinus

    Soooo- Irish ash- is the same as the ash you'll find in Poland/Germany/Sweden and elsewhere in Europe- only there will be very minor variations, often not detectable even genetically, associated with how they have adapted to a particular environment and used natural selection towards this end over a period of time.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    The below link put it very well with regard to native Tree planting and gives an outline of the notion of Local Provenance.

    http://www.nativetrees.org.uk/native-trees/planting_natve_trees_for_bio_diversity.php

    A definitive map of the UK as to how LP is divided up around the country for seed collection, map on page 2 here

    http://www.forestry.gov.uk/pdf/seedsourcefcfc151.pdf/$FILE/seedsourcefcfc151.pdf

    Some guidlines already used in the collection of wild plants that sound like a very good idea to start with (but based on UK FC rules):

    http://www.wildflowers.ie/technical_wild_flower/conservation/floralocale/seed_growers_pledge.htm

    Provenance is covered here in the Forestry Schemes manual.

    http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/forestry/grantandpremiumschemes/schemecirculars/ForestrySchemesManual21122011.pdf

    From page 5 FC Choosing Provenance in Broadleaved Trees:

    For example, a trial in Holstein, Germany, found that two local provenances (sycamore) growing only 50 km apart were dramatically different. This geographically patchy performance may be due to the fact that sycamore is insect-pollinated which will reduce gene flow through pollen transfer relative to wind-pollinated species. Under conditions of lower gene flow there would be greater local adaptation compared with wind-pollinated species such as birch, ash or oak.

    also interesting bit on Ash on page 4

    http://www.forestry.gov.uk/pdf/fcin082.pdf/$FILE/fcin082.pdf

    From what I have read, here in Ireland it seems to be the nearest certified stand means local provenance.

    I had understood that the definition of local provenance was less than 20 miles away and of a similar altitude/site.

    What I am trying to say is that there is quite a lot of difference between populations of ash on the continent and ash here on this island, and even within the ash population on this island, so repopulating with ash from elsewhere will never have the same local adaption as growing from our own local provenence stock (within 20 miles), which I think is very important point with regard to bio diversity.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    intesting article on ash provenance


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    up to 135 sites in the UK now and a suggestion of a possible link to other plants in the same family acting as vectors:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/9670462/Could-the-privet-hedge-be-spreading-ash-dieback.html

    and this is a very interesting read too:

    http://www.tree-care.info/uktc/archive/2012/msg07131


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    argument over the distance of wind spread of spores/infection:

    maby 20-30km, maby more, maby from europe if wind conditions are right

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/nov/12/ash-dieback-ministers-accused

    http://www.forestry.gov.uk/forestry/INFD-8ZSS7U

    and from:
    http://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=2012-11-12a.49.1&m=40498

    Mr Heath said: "Perhaps it would be helpful to the House if I said that as of today the results of that survey show 155 cases of ash dieback caused by Chalara across Great Britain, 15 of these are in nursery stock, 55 are in recently planted sites and 85 are in the wider environment."

    Tom Harris said "confirmed in 155 sites, including 15 nurseries that had imported infected plants and 55 plantations that had received young trees. Most worryingly, it has now been found in 65 established woodland sites. Scientific opinion is, sadly, now unanimous: trying to stop the disease is a lost cause."


    good pictures of symptoms here:

    http://www.ashridgetrees.co.uk/blog/uk-ash-tree-die-back-viewpoint-infection-of-ash-trees-chalara-fraxinea-fungus/2/


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    Thursday 15 November 2012

    Dáil Éireann

    Order of Business

    12.30 p.m.

    Statements on the discovery of Chalara fraxinea (Ash dieback disease) in the context of the importance of the forestry and forestry products industry
    [Minister of State for Food Safety, Forestry and Horticulture]

    http://www.politicalworld.org/showthread.php?t=13181

    I can't wait... :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    the below attached map from: http://www.forestry.gov.uk/chalara
    showing the 155 infected sites in the UK.

    It shows that confirmed infections in the wider environment are mainly along the east coast, mainly to the south east but also on the north east coast, with a serious cluster to the south east where it is only a stones throw to mainland Europe, with other recently planted infected sites being mainly inland.

    That would lead me to believe that the infection was coming in a natural way from the east and that the wind blown spores from europe is a logical conclusion. Maby heavy winds (maby any sort of breeze with thermals) in the June to September spore producing time from Europe is enough to get the spores there. Therefore no matter what it is just a matter of time before it arrives here on the wind from either Europe or the UK, if it hasnt already.

    The prevaling wind in this area of the UK is from the South West just like here
    http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/ee/
    so cant rely on that for protection.

    UK DEFRA plan of action to slow spread of disease across UK:

    http://www.defra.gov.uk/news/2012/11/09/action-ash-tree-disease/

    Following an unprecedented effort across Britain to identify areas where Chalara has infected trees in the wider environment, the Government this week brought together scientists, campaigners, charitable groups and woodland agencies to discuss what action should be taken.

    I wonder where our unprecedented effort is???
    I haven't seen a centralised call for all of us (interested parties amatuer and professional) to contribute to an "effort"! maby the Department in its wisdom knows best :rolleyes:

    If anyone from the Department is reading this, step up and ask us for help.
    No point in writing to the minister (as a previous poster did) who will reply with "the minister shares your concerns" but knows best so FO.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    Oldtree wrote: »
    Thursday 15 November 2012
    Dáil Éireann
    Order of Business
    12.30 p.m.
    Statements on the discovery of Chalara fraxinea (Ash dieback disease) in the context of the importance of the forestry and forestry products industry
    [Minister of State for Food Safety, Forestry and Horticulture]
    http://www.politicalworld.org/showthread.php?t=13181
    I can't wait... :rolleyes:

    Listen to the pearls of wisdom live here:

    http://www.oireachtas.ie/ViewDoc.asp?fn=/documents/livewebcast/Web-Live.htm&CatID=83&m=o

    Seanad Éireann
    Order of Business
    12.30 p.m.

    Statements on the discovery of Chalara fraxinea (Ash dieback disease) in the context of the importance of the forestry and forestry products industry
    [Minister of State for Food Safety, Forestry and Horticulture]

    http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=22111&&CatID=60


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    short summary of speech, my comments in bold:

    most likely method of infection is imported plants??

    what about wind

    cutting of trees then burn????

    what about regrow from roots

    still quoting areas known to have disease or known to be free of disease to be the guideline???

    what about currently unknown areas of infection

    extensive survey to happen with inspectors

    what about the wider public to help in co-ordinated effort

    Poster with winter symptoms to be distributed

    will it become a collecters item, stained wood and diamond shaped cankers I think

    self sustainability not until 2020, local nurserys collect seed or certified stands, coillte to up production

    about time

    he mentioned fraxback eu research

    http://www.fraxback.eu/

    just finished and no mention of the Smartcycler Genie II!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,570 ✭✭✭Rovi


    There's going to be an item about this in tonight's episode of Ear To The Ground, RTE1, at 8:30.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 931 ✭✭✭periodictable


    So is it fair to assume tha tthe container loads of ash firewood from Poland have been coming from dead Polish ash forests? If so, it's time heads rolled at the Forest Service, starting with the Chief Inspector, and the Forest Protection head. Of course, that doesn't happen on this little island, but perhaps if the minister had any balls he's send the boys out on inventory for a couple of years.
    Through all its various incarnations, the Forest Service built up a great forest base in this state, only to have the main (native) broadleaf sections face the threat of extermination. Hang your head in shame, Seamus Dunne and Gerard Cahalane.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    Rovi wrote: »
    There's going to be an item about this in tonight's episode of Ear To The Ground, RTE1, at 8:30.

    just watched it and I'm gobsmacked:

    the minister says (in an agressive manner)
    its not here now as we've destroyed it! :eek:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,996 ✭✭✭two wheels good


    Oldtree wrote: »
    just watched it and I'm gobsmacked:

    the minister says (in an agressive manner)
    its not here now as we've destroyed it! :eek:

    He seemed misguided and unconvincing.
    His other bons mots: "I'm not a fool" and "I'm from a farming background".


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Oldtree wrote: »
    just watched it and I'm gobsmacked:

    the minister says (in an agressive manner)
    its not here now as we've destroyed it! :eek:

    Someone really needs to rebalance that interview with an interview with an Irish plant pathology Prof- Kevin Clancy sounds like a good candidate. How can you make a statement like that?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    I'm more convinced that if we want to slow this thing down a complete and outright ban is the only thing that may have some effect, closely followed with the checking of all of our ash stock to get a true picture.

    We can't stop the wind from Europe or the UK,
    We can't prevent the spread of spores from as yet unknown infected sites here,
    We didn't prevent the spread of spores from infected sites here for the last 3 years,
    We arn't preventing import of the disease by allowing imports of wood from lands that may be infected but not showing symptoms yet,
    We arn't getting everyone involved running all over the place with Smartcycler Genie II,

    did I miss anything?
    Are they hiding somthing or an agenda or what? (or am I being paranoid??)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 931 ✭✭✭periodictable


    No you're not being paranoid.
    I've been reading that UK scientists believe that spores travel 20-30km at most, but that the real problem is infected planting stock. Ergo, we need to ban all ash transplant imports for starters.
    Kevin Clancy would be a great guy to interview-calls it as he sees it.
    Who wants to bet the Forest Service inspectorate isn't trying to cover its collective ass?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    I think that the spores only going 20-30km is now in the wind so to speak, :D
    esp with that cluster in the SE of the uk on the map i put up earlier showing infected wild sites, probably infected from europe. With good travel, weather and thermal conditions and starting from the top of a tall tree I think the distance covered by the spores could be very large.

    Even if it was 20-30 km that would be on land and the annual distance covered, a couple of years would see it uk coast to uk coast easy, then a short hop across the irish sea, probably having done it already across the channel from france to the uk.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 315 ✭✭Black Smoke


    As a non expert and non forrester, I would like to ask a few questions.
    With the news of this potential disaster looming, I took a walk around the farm last Sunday, to count the number of ash trees we have on the land.
    Sum total 41. Mostly large mature trees, but some at various stages also.

    Is there anything we should or could be doing to mitigate the situation?

    Should we be collecting and planting seeds this fall, for instance?

    I would absolutely hate to lose everthing for ever more!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    I'm not sure how paranoid we need to be at this juncture, but we need to do what we can to protect our trees:

    The main thing I can think of is not to buy in any ash seedling stock or collect ash seedling stock from outside your own lands, thus preventing the movement of any ash trees, somewhat like the foot and mouth, that way you can prevent one possible path of ingress to your trees.

    And also along those lines I would not visit other ash woodlands, and if you have to I would take precautions like cleaning the boots before going into and coming out of those woodlands. It may also be worth ensuring you take the same precautions at home with visitors and even yourself if you leave and return to the farm. Same for tools.

    I will be continuing with my plans to plant out my own ash seedlings collected on my own land.

    Familiarise yourself with the symptoms and keep an eye out and report it asap should you suspect or find an infection.

    Good pictures of symptoms here from Jersey gov publication:

    http://www.gov.je/SiteCollectionDocuments/Environment%20and%20greener%20living/ID%20Ash%20Chalara%20Dept%20leaflet%20NOV%202012%20(size%20268kb)%2015112012%20DM.pdf

    Disease now found Guernsey and total ban in Jersey:

    http://www.thisisjersey.com/news/2012/11/15/ash-tree-disease-found-in-guernsey/

    I too have a number of mature ash. I understand that an Ash can live for up to 300 years, with a life cycle of 100 years to grow 100 years to mature and 100 years to die. One of mine is in decline and I would estimate it to be about 250 years old, but that may be wishful thinking.

    Other diminuitive banzai'ed ash of mine are about 100-120 years old. See this thread for a description and photo of these little beauties:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056525292

    The below Ash tree (with the huge cavities) just outside Ballinrobe, you can just about see in the middle of this google streetview map, is an unbelievable tree to behold. It is hollow and the cambium has turned around on itself to form stilts. It has an enormous girth an could easily be over 300 years old. I'll try to get a better photo.

    http://maps.google.ie/maps?hl=en&ll=53.617628,-9.228456&spn=0.000003,0.002012&t=h&layer=c&cbll=53.617628,-9.228456&panoid=ZhxIiWQcjJDfbNc5AnA39A&cbp=12,81.16,,1,-2.01&z=19

    Uk now up to 184 cases:

    http://www.forestry.gov.uk/chalara

    but "its not here"!!!!! see no evil........speak no evil


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 931 ✭✭✭periodictable




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    in Down and Antrim:

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1117/ash-dieback-ni.html

    on the North Antrim coastline “There are an estimated 3.5 hectares affected at Runkerry, right beside the Giant’s Causeway, World Heritage Site on land we acquired a few years ago. Around 2,000 young trees, planted in March this year,

    http://ntpressoffice.wordpress.com/2012/11/16/second-case-of-ash-dieback-chalara-fraxinea-confirmed-on-national-trust-land-in-northern-ireland/

    Uk to 200 cases http://www.forestry.gov.uk/chalara

    looks like its still in newly planted sites on this island or is just that noone here checking the wider environment?

    Where's our dedicated bit of the Dept website for this disease?
    Where's the list of nurseries and distributers that the infected plants have come from, both europe and here, to help us trace any other infected plants?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    Maby this will help get the point across, given that imported infected plants have been here to spread spores for over 3 years and at a possible natural spread rate of 20-30km per year.

    Infected Counties in Ireland:

    229001.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 931 ✭✭✭periodictable


    So people call Minister Mc Entee's office

    Shane McEntee TD
    Contact Details

    Department of Agriculture, Agriculture House, Kildare Street, Dublin 2
    Telephone: 01-6072977
    Email

    shane.mcentee@agriculture.gov.ie
    Constituency

    Meath East
    Constituency Details

    No.3 Copper Beech, Duleek, Co. Meath
    Telephone: 041-9882727
    Fax: 041-9882477
    Web: http://www.agriculture.gov.ie

    also

    Seamus Dunne and Gerard Cahalane, Forest Service Inspectors

    Séamus Dunne, Senior Inspector

    Forest Service
    Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine,
    Agriculture House, 3 West
    Kildare Street
    Dublin 2
    Tel: 01 6072275 / 087 2515524
    Fax: 01 6072545
    Email: seamus.dunne@agriculture.gov.ie

    Gerard Cahalane, Forest Protection/ Forest Reproductive Material and ISPM No. 15

    Forest Service
    Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine,
    Agriculture House, 3 West
    Kildare Street
    Dublin 2
    Tel: 01 6072268 / 087 6697106
    Fax: 01 6072545
    Email: gerard.cahalane@agriculture.gov.ie


  • Registered Users Posts: 380 ✭✭manjou


    If you add in all the timber that is flying around on lorries at moment . Also these sites are only young so people would have been spraying in them etc and moving to next site.Next spring will tell the tale as people are aware and will notice ash trees dying and looking sick as before they may have put it down to losses now they will put it down to ash dieback.I have been looking alot closer at my ash lately so will see next spring.Only have a few acres of ash but it was going to be my heating source in fyture so it would cost more than first thought as will have to replace with something else.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    manjou wrote: »
    If you add in all the timber that is flying around on lorries at moment . Also these sites are only young so people would have been spraying in them etc and moving to next site.Next spring will tell the tale as people are aware and will notice ash trees dying and looking sick as before they may have put it down to losses now they will put it down to ash dieback.I have been looking alot closer at my ash lately so will see next spring.Only have a few acres of ash but it was going to be my heating source in fyture so it would cost more than first thought as will have to replace with something else.

    You are right and I think we should have a national strategy to deal with what is going to come, no more kicking the can down the road as the can is about to kick back.

    About the firewood production, I had initially been worried about disease striking my willow copse that I was making (only in second year now) and decided to plant a few different varities so that if one variety got hit I would have others to rely on. I then extended idea a bit to plant poplar and ash. I grow the poplar and willow from my own cuttings that I have collected over the years as well as some chance seedlings that grew in the garden. I collect my own Ash seedlings. I have loads of sycamore seedlings too which up to now I have avoided using but may have to include in the mix from now on. I do not spray off the grass only go round in autumn to push the grass down around the plants as I do not consider nutrient competition a serious threat but during winter snow on grass leaning on the plants can break them when they are smaller.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    So people call Minister Mc Entee's office

    I watched the debate in the Senate and the following showed an interest in this so email him too: (I have no political affiliations)

    Thomas.Byrne@oireachtas.ie


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