Ash Dieback Disease (Chalara fraxinea) in Ireland

Pat McArdle

So Ash Dieback has been found in Ireland.

http://bit.ly/TmdGhU

Please, will everyone observe the voluntary moratorium on importing Ash? I'd hate to lose all our beautiful Ash trees. Dutch Elm Disease was annihilation enough for one lifetime.

mountainy man

This is really bad news, we all should be checking the origin of any trees we plant.

I am of the generation that has never seen a mature elm.

TopTec

More information on symptoms here....

http://www.woodlandtrust.org.uk/en/about-us/faqs/your-woods/Documents/ash-fcalert.pdf

TT

robp

Should there be a thread on this topic pinned to the top of the forum?

Why on earth are we importing ash trees? If ever there was a tree that we should be exporting, not importing, its ash. Coals to Newcastle. Are the Dutch (or whoever) really so efficient?

robp

Deleted User wrote: »

Why on earth are we importing ash trees? If ever there was a tree that we should be exporting, not importing, its ash. Coals to Newcastle. Are the Dutch (or whoever) really so efficient?

They probably have a benefit of scale. Initially I would have suggested they would have lower labour costs but after checking some stats I don't think this is the case.

The governments report suggested only 10% of planted stock is imported. Maybe, if its that low stopping further imports would be fairly doable.

periodictable

Pat McArdle wrote: »

So Ash Dieback has been found in Ireland.

http://bit.ly/TmdGhU

Please, will everyone observe the voluntary moratorium on importing Ash? I'd hate to lose all our beautiful Ash trees. Dutch Elm Disease was annihilation enough for one lifetime.

The horse has bolted yet more imported stock can come in. I'd like to see the Forest Service take decisive action on something important and impose an outright ban on the import of ash transplants. For the last number of years it has been more concerned with setback distances from roads and penalising plantation owners for the odd overlooked planting bag. It this is the best that it can do it should be named what it has become which is the "Forest Disservice".

Oldtree

oh bugger!

"voluntary moratorium" what a load of rubbish, where's the outright immediate ban?

No mention in the press release of the endemic ash in the countryside, no doubt to underestimate the size of the problem.

Too little too late, Leitrim is a deep penetration into the country. helpin the imports along was Coilltes decision to stop selling local stock to the public a few years back. Also the high quality of imported european stock put the isish producers to shame, as well as being cheaper.

Oldtree

repeating info I know But the pictures and info on this pdf are too important not to be pushed on all threads about this ash disease, (from page 6 on)

http://www.teagasc.ie/publications/2012/1121/Heinrich_Loesing.pdf

Oldtree

more from the DOA today:

"ash plants used from the same imported consignment related to the outbreak are currently being destroyed"

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/press/pressreleases/2012/october/title,67023,en.html

Looks like its not gone native yet, here's hoping....

Oldtree

more from the DOA yesterday:

they were given a scientific presentation on the recent history and evolution of the disease on the continent

Wouldnt be a bad thing to put this presentation online :rolleyes:

"will be strengthened by the introduction of legal measures in accordance with the relevant EU legislation"

well hurry up then...:rolleyes:

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/press/pressreleases/2012/october/title,67050,en.html

a DOA/Teagasc pdf with pictures:

http://www.teagasc.ie/forestry/docs/advice/InfoNote_Chalarafraxinea_121012.pdf

crackcrack30

Afraid i'm putting this years plans on hold for a while to see how this pans out....:(

Pete_Cavan

We really need to tighten our control and possibly even ban imports in order to protect our forestry and trees in general. Our government should be working with their counterparts in the North to ensure no such diseases reach our shores. As an island we have a huge advantage in that we can ensure our forestry remains a premium product which will not be effected by diseases present on the continent.

I am sure there are EU laws which will not allow us to ban imports but allowing us to do so would also benefit the EU as they would have access to quality, disease free stock, grown in its native environment, with which to reintroduce such species onto the mainland in the future. The EU hasnt many options in terms of islands on which to grow these trees in a disease free environment. Surely our climate, our soils and the fact that we are an island will present major opportunities for us in the future? This dependant on us guaranteeing the disease-free status of this island.

Oldtree

Agreed, but the porported thing stoping a ban on imports is the EU law against a outright ban on imports from other EU countries.

The big "but" here I feel is:

Who is going to take us to court for implementing an outright ban on Ash plants for the reason of national security of our own native stock???

I would doubt anybody would do so, or even if we were taken to court would there be a fine in this case of more than a cent and a slight repremand.

Just ban ash imports (certified or otherwise) now before it gets too late and the problem gets out of hand.

Our native stock is already being diluted with the brown budded ash, angustifolia

http://www.coford.ie/researchprogramme/thematicareaestablishingandgrowingforests/ashgen/

Unless the genetics of each tree planted is checked we could already have sown the demise of our native ash tree, in hybridisation terms.

Michael Viney speaks out too:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2012/1020/1224325490188.html

CJhaughey

I don't understand the difference between importing animals (which need vet clearances for diseases etc) and importing plants.
If you think logically plant imports should be subject to the same restrictions as animals but they seem to not be?
Any country with half an ounce of sense would be immediately putting restrictions on any imported plant material to try and prevent this.
Foot and mouth showed it can be done.
Biosecurity is a state of mind, it can be done but need political will.

Yi Harr

The Society of Irish Foresters sent out a circular yesterday with some links in it. Worth the watch/read even if you haven't got ash as it may help you identify it when out and about.


A FERA video on identification of the disease. Youtube

A training presentation document.

Web site dedicated to the disease with useful images.

Oldtree

fantastic video giving us exactly what to look out for.

Training presentation link dosnt work, but this one does

http://www.fera.defra.gov.uk/plants/plantHealth/pestsDiseases/documents/ashDiebackTrainingPresentation.pdf

This was on tha same site about "Q&A if GB legislation is introduced on Chalara":

http://www.fera.defra.gov.uk/plants/plantHealth/pestsDiseases/chalaraQAs.cfm

"Information pertaining to ash-dieback (Chalara fraxinea) work at Fera"

http://www.fera.defra.gov.uk/plants/plantHealth/pestsDiseases/chalaraInfo.cfm

From the Farmers Journal on the 20th Oct it appears that the imported infected trees have been here since 2009, that means that the wind borne disease has had 4 years to spread:

http://www.farmersjournal.ie/site/farming-Forest-Service-detect-ash-dieback-in-Leitrim-15851.html

also this page from the Forestry Commission updated yesterday:

http://www.forestry.gov.uk/chalara

Oldtree

"Ash dieback disease discovered in mature woodland in East Anglia: Chalara fraxinea found on Woodland Trust land"
"Morgan said the trees found with the disease could have been infected some time ago, and that further tests were needed."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/oct/24/ash-dieback-disease-east-anglia

oh bugger x2

two wheels good

This could turn into a real catastrophe for forestry in Ireland. An immediate ban on imports must be put in place.

Please take the time to email the minister or Dept of Ag. with your concerns

Email Addrs for:
Dept of Ag
Minister Simon Coveney

TopTec

Just watched the news on BBc which carried a pice on the outbreak in the UK. They have banned any further imports. The guys from the Forestry Commision and the Woodland Trust are not hopefull about eradicating the fungus.

90% of ash has gone in Denmark alone.

TT

Oldtree

ban from monday in the UK, 8 months after they knew about it! Very quick there too.
One option for containing the disease being considered by the Forestry Commission is destroying trees for over a thousand sq km next to infected sites.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/oct/26/ash-dieback-imports-banned

already id'ed in Buckinghamshire, Leicestershire, Yorkshire, Norfolk and Suffolk.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/georgemonbiot/2012/oct/25/ash-dieback-cameron
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/oct/24/ash-dieback-disease-east-anglia?newsfeed=true

robp

Oldtree wrote: »

ban from monday in the UK, 8 months after they knew about it! Very quick there too.
One option for containing the disease being considered by the Forestry Commission is destroying trees for over a thousand sq km next to infected sites.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/oct/26/ash-dieback-imports-banned

already id'ed in Buckinghamshire, Leicestershire, Yorkshire, Norfolk and Suffolk.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/georgemonbiot/2012/oct/25/ash-dieback-cameron
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/oct/24/ash-dieback-disease-east-anglia?newsfeed=true

The dept is issuing a ban in importation from all infected areas. Is this enough? Should there be an outright total ban?

Oldtree

there should have been an outright ban within the EU on any movement of ash between countries years ago. But yet again the fools have left it too long.

Oldtree

following from what robp says above:

from yesterday "announced the introduction of legal measures to prohibit the importation into Ireland of plant material from ash dieback infected areas.

and:

The measures will make it an offence to import ash plants and seed from areas within the EU that are known to have the disease."

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/press/pressreleases/2012/october/title,67308,en.html

so it is still ok to import ash from other areas not known to be affected by the disease yet, but the plants could still be infected unbeknown to the powers that be. Are they trying to kill off our ash, I have to ask what the agenda behind the importation of ash is all about.

IMO we have to have a outright total ban now, say goodbye to a few years of ash planting and establish guranteed disease free native ash stock for planting in the years to come otherwise its the end of the story for ash here.

The_Conductor

So, we've identified stands in Leitrim thus far- is this the extent of it- and are we planning any of the clearances like the Forestry Commission have underway in Buckinghamshire? I'll see if I can dig out the official notices for SIF and the British Forestry Commission from last week- and I'll post them here (it'll be tomorrow).

The big problem in the UK seems to have been that it was on forestry nurseries- who in turn transported it all over the country- so what could have been a localised problem- all of a sudden became a national one.

Which other species are susceptible to CF? Its 100% definitely not limited to ash........?

Oldtree

I dont think its the last we will hear about it, by a long shot. It has had plenty of time to disperse from both know and unknown sites of infection within this island.

Did you notice under the "Notes for Editors" here

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/press/pressreleases/2012/october/title,67308,en.html

Active surveillance, in place since 2008 is continuing by Department Forestry Inspectorate staff across ash plantations.

The pretence of it, I'm gonna explode......

As I linked to before plants here since 2009:

http://www.farmersjournal.ie/site/farming-Forest-Service-detect-ash-dieback-in-Leitrim-15851.html

Oldtree

smccarrick wrote: »

Which other species are susceptible to CF? Its 100% definitely not limited to ash........?

cant find any references of it going onto any other species other than other ash's, have you any links pl?

yellowlabrador

Here's another video about ash dieback this time it's someone from Nottingham University
http://youtu.be/DaYPjQE3Wtw

Oldtree

North South chat on the situation:

"the situation in relation to the single incidence of the disease is now under control."

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/press/pressreleases/2012/november/title,67393,en.html

now theres an understatement again minimising the potential of the situation. I wonder where the leaf litter has gone from the last 3 winters since the infected trees were planted? Did they steralise the surrounding area to further prevent ingress into our lovely isle????

Perhaps the potential sale of harvests to China is having an influence on the minimising by the DOF of the potential impact of this disease?

''We are examining the option of selling the harvesting rights to the Coillte forests for a period of up to 70 to 80 years"

http://www.farmersjournal.ie/site/farming-Sale-of-harvesting-rights-to-Coillte-forests-an-option-Coveney-14319.html

two wheels good

I had a reply from Minister Coveney's office. (In pdf format - see attached). It mentions the Leitrim infected consignment was planted in 11 other areas. Very worrying!

As already posted allowing any imports means they could be coming from area that may unknowingly harbor the disease

Here's an interesting detail from the UK experience:

"The reality [of importing a prolific native plant such as ash] is even crazier. The Woodland Trust has been busy with its largest ever tree-planting campaign to create the 460-acre Jubilee Forest in Leicestershire. Like other foresters, the charity asks nurseries for ash from native seeds. Its suppliers comply but some send seeds to the Netherlands to be grown before saplings are returned for planting. Austin Brady, the trust's head of conservation, admits that the charity may have unknowingly bought trees from nurseries that grew British seeds abroad."
Extract from here

mountainy man

More cases in Scotland.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/ash-disease-found-at-new-woodlands.19300655

treefan

from BBC:
Ash dieback: Government Cobra meeting to tackle disease

The government's emergency committee Cobra is meeting to discuss the fungal threat to the nation's ash trees.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-20176720

TomOnBoard

It's here. Be in no doubt. Now, say you have 10 Hectares of Ash and it's found to be infected. You'll be served with a notice to destroy. Who Pays?

See this from England yesterday:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2226069/Homeowners-face-1-000-infected-ash-trees-cut-insurers-government-refuse-compensation.html

How much would it cost to cut and destroy your 10 Hectares? And "Destroy" won't mean you can build a woodpile and burn the infected stuff over a 5 year timeframe. Gone in 60-seconds will be more the regimen. :-(

The_Conductor

What is the story with destroying it btw?
Its an airborne pathogen.
Its all well and good muttering about spores on leaf matter and debris on the ground- however, it is in its most virulent form, an airborne disease (which is partially how fast its managed to conquer the continent). We have cases of it- unfortunately, which means its here.

What they seem to be working on in Poland and Denmark, is looking at provenances/families that have a greater degree of tolerance to the fungus than do others (basing their research on the manner in which this was first found in Japan in a related cousin of the ash- and how their ash are now immune to Chalara).

We may not be as badly affected as in the UK- because we don't use ash as extensively in Irish forestry as they do, however thats damn small comfort for any of us who have planted it (ourselves included).

Personally- I'd expect to see some cooperation programmes on immune gene pools to emerge imminently between ourselves and the UK in particular- and I imagine that this is the direction that is going to eventually relegate Chalara to a background annoyance.

manjou

Then there is the cost of replanting the land.It could be very expensive to get rid of the diease. Trouble is by the time most people realise they have infected trees it could have spread further than there plantation so destroying there trees could be a waste of time as it has spread away to next place. Probably only way to stop is to do similiar to foot and mouth and destroy all ash trees within 10 km radius and we dont have money for that.

The_Conductor

The issue with simply destroying the stand- is first off- its unlikely to eradicate the disease, and secondly- its ignoring the fact that its an airborne pathogen- burning the stand is likely to cause it to spread even faster.

Ellis Dee

It might be best to just let the disease run its course, rather like myxomatosis, which looked like it would make rabbits extinct, but didn't. Some trees are likely to prove immune and in the fullness of time the genes that defy the fungus are likely to come out on top. Here's an article about Swedish experts and their experience of ash dieback:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/9652599/Trees-that-thrive-amid-killer-fungus-hold-secret-to-saving-threatened-ash.html

Extract: " The Swedish study suggests that attempts to contain the disease by burning trees could be counterproductive. If resistant trees can grow alongside dying ones, burning all trees will 'throw the baby out with the bath water', leading to the eradication of native ash.

Prof Stenlid suggests a more cautious approach. 'You should at least wait to find which ones are best off and then try to build a future from the ones that are not suffering so badly,' he says. 'Otherwise you will remove the possibility of preserving the tree species because you will cut down the resistant ones.'”

The_Conductor

Sounds like sensible advice to me- and alongside the Swedish studies- we have the fact on the ground that the Asiatic ash- is now immune to Chalara, which is where it originated from in the first instance. We do have to remember that we're looking at the long term here- it could be 20-30 years before we have a relative degree of resistance built up in native woodlands, its not going to be 'cured' in the course of a couple of years.

I wonder whats going to happen to the olives of Spain/Portugal/Italy- tests show they're equally as susceptible, as is Fraxinus excelsior.

TopTec

Looking out of my west facing kitchen window I probably have 60 odd mature ash trees within 500 yards. I have a winter view of Nephin through the trees, (which is snow capped this morning!)

I wonder what the view will like in 10 years?

TT

manjou

Maybe the same will happen as with elm trees started taking notice at elm trees and am amazed at amount of small elm trees that are growing around the place.Maybe they will catch elm diease again or maybe they have become immune dont know but they are growing again.Nature has a way of sorting itself out and maybe this will happen with the ash aswell and ash will develop an immunity only time will tell.

treefan

from BBC:

Ash dieback: Government faces possible legal action:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-20201708

Oldtree

Raises the idea for legal action here by the inaction of the department since 2008!!!

periodictable

robp wrote: »

The dept is issuing a ban in importation from all infected areas. Is this enough? Should there be an outright total ban?

Total outright ban should be in place. Can anyone imagine an animal infected with a debilitating illness like foot and mouth being allowed into the country? Or any other disease for that matter? It just would not happen.
I'd like the head of the Forest Service and any subordinate in the plant protection unit to be hauled before a Dail committee and made to explain why they have not implemented an immediate ban on the import of ash plants when they first became aware of the problem.
One is dealing with at best some feeble minds, obviously more concerned at playing politics and moving up the greasy pole, than doing the job for which they are more than generously compensated and with precious little vision of what forestry can be in this state. Time for outside people to be brought into the Forest Service, in order to light a fire under the rear ends the closed club of UCD graduate pals whose singular achievement is the perfection of mutual back scratching.

The_Conductor

Oldtree wrote: »

Raises the idea for legal action here by the inaction of the department since 2008!!!

Given that the Swedish researchers were convinced it was actually a variant of Armilaria (what we'd normally associate with honey fungus on conifers), and were attributing crown cankers to this up to late 2009, I'd be interested in seeing how/what the rationale for the 2008 date is.

What is the current Irish tally- are we still at two stands, or has it increased- and if so, whats the distribution, and is there any apparent infection pattern?

The Swedish seemed convinced that only younger (under 20 year old) stands were transport vectors for this- is this summation still accurate? They also suggested that good silvicultural practice could in itself, assist in developing a relative degree of immunity from crown dieback (they weren't attributing it to Chalara of course).

The British Forestry Commission paper circulated by SIF is a very good first port of call- but its out of date despite its recent publication.

Oldtree

smccarrick wrote: »

Given that the Swedish researchers were convinced it was actually a variant of Armilaria (what we'd normally associate with honey fungus on conifers), and were attributing crown cankers to this up to late 2009, I'd be interested in seeing how/what the rationale for the 2008 date is.

What is the current Irish tally- are we still at two stands, or has it increased- and if so, whats the distribution, and is there any apparent infection pattern?

The Swedish seemed convinced that only younger (under 20 year old) stands were transport vectors for this- is this summation still accurate? They also suggested that good silvicultural practice could in itself, assist in developing a relative degree of immunity from crown dieback (they weren't attributing it to Chalara of course).

The British Forestry Commission paper circulated by SIF is a very good first port of call- but its out of date despite its recent publication.

do you mean from the departments 2008? The disease was fully described in 2006 from what I've read.

I will read the full article in a minute but the summary says that the "the disease was associated with symptoms of Armillaria gallica", does that not mean that the 2 diseases worked togeather or had similar symptoms or one followed the other into weakened trees or initially misdiagnosed? They also seem to be focused on stands rather than woodland or hedgerows where the age of the trees would be much older and more variable than stands.

With an airborne pathogen like this I would be very suprised if young trees are the main vectors, perhaps they are more susseptable for some reason and thus are an easier victim, or it just takes longer for older trees to show symptoms as their reactions to the diseases may be more combatitive for the disease? But I would not doubt that a mature tree could pass this on in a big way given the height it could launch the disease from.

I thought we had one confirmed site, but the 33,000 plants associated with that site were planted on another 11 sites that were destroyed. That was planted in 2009 so at least 3 years to show symptoms on a visible scale, so we will have at least 3 years to discover all the other infected sites in ireland and will probably have to wait till next summer before the next case.

Rovi

Meath, Monaghan, and Galway, according to De Minister on Morning Ireland (RTE Radio 1) this morning:
http://www.rte.ie/news/morningireland/player.html?20121106,3429308,3429308,flash,257

The man does not inspire confidence in me, to be honest

Oldtree

talk about draging blood from a stone, 3 plants infected turned into 3 sites....

spread by leaf litter alone, I think not. Still trying to minimise the situation by gi=ving the impression that the spread will be slow and easily contained. What about if the mushrooms develop on a leaf stalk that hasnt yet parted from the mature tree or is caught up in the tree then it is spread by wind high up in the canopy.

no, the bumbling does not inspire confidence not does the continued use of "no importing from infected areas". As I mentioned the possibility of 3 years to see visible symptoms unless you do a test on every tree, so we could be importing from as yet clean "infected areas" as well as having already spread it for the last 3 years ourselves. I also wonder if it could come on the wind from the UK?

why can't I stop shaking my head???

The_Conductor

Breaking news- Chalara fraxinea confirmed at 10 further sites, including sites in Monaghan, Meath and Galway.

zetecescort

Its here and it looks like all we can do ride out the storm and hope for the best. the government certainly won't do much.

Oldtree

smccarrick wrote: »

Breaking news- Chalara fraxinea confirmed at 10 further sites, including sites in Monaghan, Meath and Galway.

can you link please to info, thanks

The_Conductor

Oldtree wrote: »

can you link please to info, thanks

Sorry, the hyperlink got stripped somehow.

www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/1107/1224326240854.html

In addition to the 10 cases yesterday, another 4 this morning..........