Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Ash Dieback Disease (Chalara fraxinea) in Ireland

Options
24567…26

Comments

  • Options
    #32
    treefan
    Registered Users Posts: 39 ✭treefan


    from BBC:
    Ash dieback: Government Cobra meeting to tackle disease

    The government's emergency committee Cobra is meeting to discuss the fungal threat to the nation's ash trees.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-20176720


  • Options
    #33
    TomOnBoard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,109 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    It's here. Be in no doubt. Now, say you have 10 Hectares of Ash and it's found to be infected. You'll be served with a notice to destroy. Who Pays?

    See this from England yesterday:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2226069/Homeowners-face-1-000-infected-ash-trees-cut-insurers-government-refuse-compensation.html

    How much would it cost to cut and destroy your 10 Hectares? And "Destroy" won't mean you can build a woodpile and burn the infected stuff over a 5 year timeframe. Gone in 60-seconds will be more the regimen. :-(


  • Options
    #34
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,280 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    What is the story with destroying it btw?
    Its an airborne pathogen.
    Its all well and good muttering about spores on leaf matter and debris on the ground- however, it is in its most virulent form, an airborne disease (which is partially how fast its managed to conquer the continent). We have cases of it- unfortunately, which means its here.

    What they seem to be working on in Poland and Denmark, is looking at provenances/families that have a greater degree of tolerance to the fungus than do others (basing their research on the manner in which this was first found in Japan in a related cousin of the ash- and how their ash are now immune to Chalara).

    We may not be as badly affected as in the UK- because we don't use ash as extensively in Irish forestry as they do, however thats damn small comfort for any of us who have planted it (ourselves included).

    Personally- I'd expect to see some cooperation programmes on immune gene pools to emerge imminently between ourselves and the UK in particular- and I imagine that this is the direction that is going to eventually relegate Chalara to a background annoyance.


  • Options
    #35
    manjou
    Registered Users Posts: 377 ✭✭manjou


    Then there is the cost of replanting the land.It could be very expensive to get rid of the diease. Trouble is by the time most people realise they have infected trees it could have spread further than there plantation so destroying there trees could be a waste of time as it has spread away to next place. Probably only way to stop is to do similiar to foot and mouth and destroy all ash trees within 10 km radius and we dont have money for that.


  • Options
    #36
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,280 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    The issue with simply destroying the stand- is first off- its unlikely to eradicate the disease, and secondly- its ignoring the fact that its an airborne pathogen- burning the stand is likely to cause it to spread even faster.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #37
    Ellis Dee
    Registered Users Posts: 2,512 ✭✭✭Ellis Dee


    It might be best to just let the disease run its course, rather like myxomatosis, which looked like it would make rabbits extinct, but didn't. Some trees are likely to prove immune and in the fullness of time the genes that defy the fungus are likely to come out on top. Here's an article about Swedish experts and their experience of ash dieback:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/9652599/Trees-that-thrive-amid-killer-fungus-hold-secret-to-saving-threatened-ash.html

    Extract: " The Swedish study suggests that attempts to contain the disease by burning trees could be counterproductive. If resistant trees can grow alongside dying ones, burning all trees will 'throw the baby out with the bath water', leading to the eradication of native ash.

    Prof Stenlid suggests a more cautious approach. 'You should at least wait to find which ones are best off and then try to build a future from the ones that are not suffering so badly,' he says. 'Otherwise you will remove the possibility of preserving the tree species because you will cut down the resistant ones.'    ”


  • Options
    #38
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,280 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Sounds like sensible advice to me- and alongside the Swedish studies- we have the fact on the ground that the Asiatic ash- is now immune to Chalara, which is where it originated from in the first instance. We do have to remember that we're looking at the long term here- it could be 20-30 years before we have a relative degree of resistance built up in native woodlands, its not going to be 'cured' in the course of a couple of years.

    I wonder whats going to happen to the olives of Spain/Portugal/Italy- tests show they're equally as susceptible, as is Fraxinus excelsior.


  • Options
    #39
    TopTec
    Registered Users Posts: 1,167 ✭✭✭TopTec


    Looking out of my west facing kitchen window I probably have 60 odd mature ash trees within 500 yards. I have a winter view of Nephin through the trees, (which is snow capped this morning!)

    I wonder what the view will like in 10 years?

    TT


  • Options
    #40
    manjou
    Registered Users Posts: 377 ✭✭manjou


    Maybe the same will happen as with elm trees started taking notice at elm trees and am amazed at amount of small elm trees that are growing around the place.Maybe they will catch elm diease again or maybe they have become immune dont know but they are growing again.Nature has a way of sorting itself out and maybe this will happen with the ash aswell and ash will develop an immunity only time will tell.


  • Options
    #41
    treefan
    Registered Users Posts: 39 ✭treefan


    from BBC:

    Ash dieback: Government faces possible legal action:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-20201708


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #42
    Oldtree
    Registered Users Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    Raises the idea for legal action here by the inaction of the department since 2008!!!


  • Options
    #43
    periodictable
    Closed Accounts Posts: 931 ✭✭✭periodictable


    robp wrote: »
    The dept is issuing a ban in importation from all infected areas. Is this enough? Should there be an outright total ban?
    Total outright ban should be in place. Can anyone imagine an animal infected with a debilitating illness like foot and mouth being allowed into the country? Or any other disease for that matter? It just would not happen.
    I'd like the head of the Forest Service and any subordinate in the plant protection unit to be hauled before a Dail committee and made to explain why they have not implemented an immediate ban on the import of ash plants when they first became aware of the problem.
    One is dealing with at best some feeble minds, obviously more concerned at playing politics and moving up the greasy pole, than doing the job for which they are more than generously compensated and with precious little vision of what forestry can be in this state. Time for outside people to be brought into the Forest Service, in order to light a fire under the rear ends the closed club of UCD graduate pals whose singular achievement is the perfection of mutual back scratching.


  • Options
    #44
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,280 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Oldtree wrote: »
    Raises the idea for legal action here by the inaction of the department since 2008!!!

    Given that the Swedish researchers were convinced it was actually a variant of Armilaria (what we'd normally associate with honey fungus on conifers), and were attributing crown cankers to this up to late 2009, I'd be interested in seeing how/what the rationale for the 2008 date is.

    What is the current Irish tally- are we still at two stands, or has it increased- and if so, whats the distribution, and is there any apparent infection pattern?

    The Swedish seemed convinced that only younger (under 20 year old) stands were transport vectors for this- is this summation still accurate? They also suggested that good silvicultural practice could in itself, assist in developing a relative degree of immunity from crown dieback (they weren't attributing it to Chalara of course).

    The British Forestry Commission paper circulated by SIF is a very good first port of call- but its out of date despite its recent publication.


  • Options
    #45
    Oldtree
    Registered Users Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    smccarrick wrote: »
    Given that the Swedish researchers were convinced it was actually a variant of Armilaria (what we'd normally associate with honey fungus on conifers), and were attributing crown cankers to this up to late 2009, I'd be interested in seeing how/what the rationale for the 2008 date is.

    What is the current Irish tally- are we still at two stands, or has it increased- and if so, whats the distribution, and is there any apparent infection pattern?

    The Swedish seemed convinced that only younger (under 20 year old) stands were transport vectors for this- is this summation still accurate? They also suggested that good silvicultural practice could in itself, assist in developing a relative degree of immunity from crown dieback (they weren't attributing it to Chalara of course).

    The British Forestry Commission paper circulated by SIF is a very good first port of call- but its out of date despite its recent publication.

    do you mean from the departments 2008? The disease was fully described in 2006 from what I've read.

    I will read the full article in a minute but the summary says that the "the disease was associated with symptoms of Armillaria gallica", does that not mean that the 2 diseases worked togeather or had similar symptoms or one followed the other into weakened trees or initially misdiagnosed? They also seem to be focused on stands rather than woodland or hedgerows where the age of the trees would be much older and more variable than stands.

    With an airborne pathogen like this I would be very suprised if young trees are the main vectors, perhaps they are more susseptable for some reason and thus are an easier victim, or it just takes longer for older trees to show symptoms as their reactions to the diseases may be more combatitive for the disease? But I would not doubt that a mature tree could pass this on in a big way given the height it could launch the disease from.

    I thought we had one confirmed site, but the 33,000 plants associated with that site were planted on another 11 sites that were destroyed. That was planted in 2009 so at least 3 years to show symptoms on a visible scale, so we will have at least 3 years to discover all the other infected sites in ireland and will probably have to wait till next summer before the next case.


  • Options
    #46
    Rovi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,570 ✭✭✭Rovi


    Meath, Monaghan, and Galway, according to De Minister on Morning Ireland (RTE Radio 1) this morning:
    http://www.rte.ie/news/morningireland/player.html?20121106,3429308,3429308,flash,257

    The man does not inspire confidence in me, to be honest :(


  • Options
    #47
    Oldtree
    Registered Users Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    talk about draging blood from a stone, 3 plants infected turned into 3 sites....

    spread by leaf litter alone, I think not. Still trying to minimise the situation by gi=ving the impression that the spread will be slow and easily contained. What about if the mushrooms develop on a leaf stalk that hasnt yet parted from the mature tree or is caught up in the tree then it is spread by wind high up in the canopy.

    no, the bumbling does not inspire confidence not does the continued use of "no importing from infected areas". As I mentioned the possibility of 3 years to see visible symptoms unless you do a test on every tree, so we could be importing from as yet clean "infected areas" as well as having already spread it for the last 3 years ourselves. I also wonder if it could come on the wind from the UK?

    why can't I stop shaking my head??? :(


  • Options
    #48
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,280 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Breaking news- Chalara fraxinea confirmed at 10 further sites, including sites in Monaghan, Meath and Galway.


  • Options
    #49
    zetecescort
    Registered Users Posts: 5,076 ✭✭✭zetecescort


    Its here and it looks like all we can do ride out the storm and hope for the best. the government certainly won't do much.


  • Options
    #50
    Oldtree
    Registered Users Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    smccarrick wrote: »
    Breaking news- Chalara fraxinea confirmed at 10 further sites, including sites in Monaghan, Meath and Galway.

    can you link please to info, thanks


  • Options
    #51
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,280 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Oldtree wrote: »

    can you link please to info, thanks

    Sorry, the hyperlink got stripped somehow.

    www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/1107/1224326240854.html

    In addition to the 10 cases yesterday, another 4 this morning..........


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #52
    periodictable
    Closed Accounts Posts: 931 ✭✭✭periodictable


    Six more UK counties

    http://www.defra.gov.uk/news/2012/11/07/ash-disease-in-six-further-counties/

    so who's going to carry the can for the spread in Ireland? I seem to remember a time when Diarmuid mcAree boasted of burning consignments of lumber on the Drogheda docks if even a little bark was found.
    Why and who has allowed our plant health inspections to become so lax?


  • Options
    #53
    CJhaughey
    Registered Users Posts: 14,906 ✭✭✭✭CJhaughey


    Its not just plant health, its every aspect of the non-existent biosecurity here.
    This time its Chalara, ten years ago it was Foot and Mouth.
    Whats it going to be next?
    Ask the Dept why it took them 9mths to find it here when the first case was reported in February in the UK?
    Plant material was imported from the same Dutch nurseries...
    Its just the EU thinking it is one big homogenous state and not having any kind of responsibility when it comes to individual states biosecurity measures.
    You can be sure if anyone had tried to ban imports they would have a hard time before the shíte hit the fan.


  • Options
    #54
    Oldtree
    Registered Users Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    smccarrick wrote: »
    Sorry, the hyperlink got stripped somehow.

    www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/1107/1224326240854.html

    In addition to the 10 cases yesterday, another 4 this morning..........

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/1107/1224326240854.html

    "Minister of State for Forestry Shane McEntee said no trace of the disease had been found in the remaining seven sites. However, plants on all 11 sites were destroyed as a safety measure and a further 20,000 plants adjacent to those plants were also destroyed."

    you had me quaking in my boots, ;)

    it appears to be still only the initial site and three others (from the same consignment of dutch trees) giving a total of 4 infected sites in total, so far.


  • Options
    #55
    Oldtree
    Registered Users Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    CJhaughey wrote: »
    Its not just plant health, its every aspect of the non-existent biosecurity here.
    This time its Chalara, ten years ago it was Foot and Mouth.
    Whats it going to be next?
    Ask the Dept why it took them 9mths to find it here when the first case was reported in February in the UK?
    Plant material was imported from the same Dutch nurseries...
    Its just the EU thinking it is one big homogenous state and not having any kind of responsibility when it comes to individual states biosecurity measures.
    You can be sure if anyone had tried to ban imports they would have a hard time before the shíte hit the fan.

    agreed totally, there are some important issues that are outside of the homogenous state idea for the EU. Our ash has a unique makeup now, after all unique things like cheese get protection:

    Protected Designation of Origin (PDO) and Protected Geographical Indication (PGI)http://ec.europa.eu/agriculture/quality/

    The departments tree health addressed here:

    http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/forestservice/foresthealthandseeds/


  • Options
    #56
    tabby aspreme
    Registered Users Posts: 3,883 ✭✭✭tabby aspreme


    I planted 10,000 ash, mostly Dutch imports, in 2010, I wonder will dept forester be around to check them, does anyone know which nursery supplied the infected ones, probably best not to mention names on here, a PM would be fine, thanks


  • Options
    #57
    Oldtree
    Registered Users Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    if I were you I would get on to your local forestry inspector to get a definitive answer and test pdq.


  • Options
    #58
    Oldtree
    Registered Users Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    just noticed these nuggets:

    "In October 2012, Fera scientists confirmed a small number of cases in East Anglia in ash trees which do not appear to have any association with recently supplied nursery stock."

    and

    "C. fraxinea is being treated as a quarantine pest under national emergency measures"

    "Thanks to everyone who is out surveying sites across the UK this weekend for signs of ash dieback"

    http://www.forestry.gov.uk/chalara

    "Confirmed findings:

    Nursery sites - 15
    Recently planted sites - 39
    Wider environment - 61"

    extrapolating from those figures of:

    1 infected nursery site to 2 infected recent plantings to 4 infected wider environment sites

    to what we have here with 4 infected recent plantings

    means we could have 8 infected wider environment sites!!!!!


  • Options
    #59
    TomOnBoard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,109 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    Just looking through some of my Ash, and am wondering how does one distinguish leaf death due to Chalara infection from normal leaf death due to Autumnal Fall?


  • Options
    #60
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,280 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Its crown die-back you're looking for, not normal leaf fall. Several related fungus are endemic on ash and spread via leaf litter- but do not cause crown die-back in the way Chalara does.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #61
    treefan
    Registered Users Posts: 39 ✭treefan


    its so depressing..
    got a field of 5 year old ash and they are growing so well and look amazing:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(


Advertisement