Changed to Raw :-)

bluecherry74

TillyGirl wrote: »

Lexi's breakfast

He doesn't look too pleased about being breakfast!

I'm now the proud owner of a pig's head. It's in my freezer. I'm not too sure how I feel about it yet.

ISDW

nala2012 wrote: »

Does anybody know which foods are high in zinc?

Sorry, don't know the answer, but this is used by a lot of siberian husky owners, who can suffer from ZRD (zinc deficiency)

http://northolm.co.uk/zinc-gluconate-16oz?filter_name=zinc+gluconate

Whispered

We regularly use 2 butchers, neither of which sell anything but "dog mince". I don't think this gives me enough control over the type they're eating. How necessary is it for them to get raw chicken bones etc? Would it work for them to get the mince with veg, supplemented with some liver occasionally and the odd drumstick? Along with meaty bones of course because they always got these anyway.

One of them sells 80lbs of dog mince for €50, is that a good price?

tk123

Got some of this "sushi" from zooplus yesterday. Bailey LOVES it - its just fish skin but very crunchy and not stinky thank god!
http://www.zooplus.ie/shop/dogs/dog_treats_chews/natural_treats_fish/204579

toadfly

Do you have an Aldi/Lidl near you Whispered? I find Lidl better for variety, the Aldi near me anyway usually only has oyster legs and chicken legs. They dont usually have drumsticks and never wings.

Whispered

Yeah we do, I must go have another look. I've looked in Aldi but besides the drumsticks and whole chicken, most things seem to be breaded/battered/in sauce. I never noticed before! I'll try Lidl during the week.

toadfly

Whispered wrote: »

Yeah we do, I must go have another look. I've looked in Aldi but besides the drumsticks and whole chicken, most things seem to be breaded/battered/in sauce. I never noticed before! I'll try Lidl during the week.

Its mainly drumsticks and oyster thighs I feed. I only used chicken legs this week as thats all that was there when I was in last week. Find the legs are a little too big for Lex.

fatmammycat

Aldis is great for 4 packs of oyster legs - 2:19 Euros. And for tins of sardines and mackerel. They do sell drumstocks too, but not as often. Or at least my local doesn't.

toadfly

fatmammycat wrote: »

Aldis is great for 4 packs of oyster legs - 2:19 Euros. And for tins of sardines and mackerel. They do sell drumstocks too, but not as often. Or at least my local doesn't.

Ya I would get drumsticks an odd time there but never have the amount Lidl do. I can never find tins of sardines there either must ask next time I am in. I have enough for another 2 weeks in the freezer though.

tk123

TillyGirl wrote: »

Its mainly drumsticks and oyster thighs I feed. I only used chicken legs this week as thats all that was there when I was in last week. Find the legs are a little too big for Lex.

I found the aldi legs a bit too small so it messed up my easy portions! Switched back to getting them in our normal butchers because the legs are much bigger and works out slightly cheaper than having to double up or supplement the aldi ones. I got 2 packs of wings last week and minced them, added mince and some liver and ended up with 16 days meat for around a tenner! I minced the liver out of laziness - it was like something out of a horror movie lol!!! .

DogsFirst

nala2012 wrote: »

Does anybody know which foods are high in zinc?

Liver has lots of zinc in it. As do fresh bones. Also a little almond oil on their food (half a teaspoon twice a week). You can apply almond oil topically on to things like elbow crusts (zinc deficiency), run through dry coat etc. Excellent stuff.

Phytic acid (in wheat) and gluten (in wheat) block zinc absorbtion. Also zinc oxide (used in dry food) is a poorly absorbed form of zinc. Hence dry fed dogs having elbow crusts that lots of people thought was because they lay on hard ground.

If you're feeding dry and are adding good foods and want zinc absorbtion it needs to be on a wheat free kibble!

tk123

Couple of questions (my study today is going great :rolleyes: )

Wings - is say 1kg the same as 1kg of legs? I always thought that the legs were more meaty but some of the wings last week were huge and there's more of them so I'm wondering of they cancel out and are the same?...Or are the wings slightly better because there's more bone and cartilage (which is what we want to maintain/repair)???

Also mince - cheap as chips or better quality?

I'm going to try increasing Bailey's meals and see what happens. When we started out he still had some crate rest/cracker fat (you can use that DF lol ) on him and has started back at square one with hydro so I cut it back - I'm convinced he's half starved! His hydro is intense - around 20 mins now every week - so no fat on him at all - I think he could use some extra fuel to build more muscle!

DogsFirst

Cracker fat, like it, will take and use as my own!

The more meat on the wings the better, definitely. It's why I prefer backs, cheaper again, bits of organ hanging off for free, nice bit of meat, soft bones. Too many small wings can block them up (impaction can happen when people feed necks all day every day, or 2kg at a time. Too much for the poo factory!

I don't like cheap "pet" minces, particularly cheap beef and lamb. The lowest grade human mince (grade 3) is the very last bits they can gleam off the carcass. The maximum fat content permitted is 30% fat (the stuff in Lidl and Aldi at €3.50/kg). But thats a fresh weight measure. 60 - 65% of this water. So you're only getting 5 - 10% protein. Fatty dynamite. Pet minces begin after this. People love it, coming back to the age old saying "it puts the weight on them". Which it does but again its the wrong sort of weight, it's fat, not lean muscle mass (which is built from protein). In this way fatty beef minces are as bad as "putting the weight on" with carbohydrates (cereal laden dry food are now 50% carbs). These are the cheapest ways, certainly not the best, putting huge stress on many bio functions. We'll never endorse them as a result. Little bits are fine, damn tasty, but treat them like pizzas.

Some better minces exist, consisting of cheek and head meat etc. Harder to find and you're at the mercy of whoever grinds it up that what you have is good stuff. Problem is, they all look meaty due to blood content.

Tripe is lower in fat (circa 20 - 25% fat, and thats a Dry Matter weight, hence up to 60% protein). That costs a lot more these days though due to opening of polish market who take all our tripe. Slaughter houses no longer give this stuff out cheap and thanks to extremely stringent protocol, are not permitted to do so anyway. Cheap pork maybe? I've been using more and more of it as I can source it cheap, it's bad rep is ill deserved.

You're far better off buying the half price beef cuts in Tesco when the opportunity arises and "putting the weight on" with the cheapest chicken you can find (that hasn't been imported and therefore grown in a box).

Whatever you're giving him just give me loads more of it. As long as its all good stuff (chicken, fish, bit of veg etc) he won't put on the wrong weight, being a biologically appropriate high protein feed, he'll wee out the excess he doesn't use for lean muscle mass gain.

tk123

Thanks!! I'd be mincing the wings btw - he doesn't chew them enough so too risky to feed them whole. I'll stick to round/steak mince that we'd eat ourselves or keep an eye out for cuts in the supermarket! Keeping an eye out in the butchers for when they start selling turkey legs and wings too! I'll ask him about turkey carcases when I order the turkey this week. I really need to find somewhere in the house to squeeze a freezer in lol!!

EDIT - here's the mincer in action in case anyone is wondering what they're like - http://youtu.be/2XJT5v2g8tI (phone is propped up against the microwave lol)

Lemlin

Just wanted to run this past ye crew.

My labrador pup is now 7 months old. I got her when she was 2 months old and fed her on nuts (Taste of the Wild) and homemade RAW. She got the nuts in the morning and RAW in the evening when she was a pup. I generally follow the ingredients for the RAW from Dogsfirst which are:

2kg Veg (green beans, peas, carrots etc), steam for 20 mins approx. Remove veg, keep the water.
500 – 1kg Rice (brown is best) or potatoes, not necessary though.
1kg raw minced beef.
1kg raw organ meat (heart, liver, kidney, tripe whatever, but a good
mix if possible).
2kg raw, whole, free range chicken thighs/legs.
1kg whole oily fish (mackerel / herring / sardines) from frozen –
destroys fish parasites.

Except I'd generally add a bit more fish and meat because she was a pup. I took her off the nuts fully after she got to six months. Last week I got my hand on some tripe and, although she wasn't mad into it, she ate it on its own. Sometimes though I might have left the dish there for her to nibble away at during the day because she was slow to eat the tripe (I've heard it can be hard on a dog's stomach). I made more RAW on Sunday and went to give her the first of it last night. The thing is she normally wolfs it down but last night she took the chicken leg and ate a couple of small spuds but left the majority of the rice and veg. I took the food away and put it back into the lunchbox I have in the fridge as I don't want her getting into a habit of grazing.

She hasn't ate great in the last week. Before the tripe, I had some chicken fillets and those were largely left as well. I actualy noticed that she was burying the fillets because Saturday morning I had her for a long run and was then working in my garage and noticed her digging at a ditch beside the garden and discovered a chicken fillet buried.

Is it a case that maybe she has been getting too much food? It's just I'm worried as she's a pup and the last week she hasn't ate great. I also noticed that when I offered her some of my older dog's nuts she wolfed them down.

Is there anything I could maybe add to the RAW to make it more exciting? I usually add garlic, salmon oil and then add eggs throughout the month.

tk123

Could she be teething again and a bit sore?

toadfly

Gave Lex a heart for the first time yesterday and she ate it fine. No blood explosion it was very chewey but she was grand eating it.

DogsFirst

Up the meat content (include lots of tasty organs etc), drop the veg a bit. They're not necessary. That recipe was to show someone I could get my fresh dog food bill below €1.50 or something!!

My dog has been raw fed for half her life but still doesn't like chicken fillets. Think it's the texture. Feed smaller bits of chick on the bone!! Very tasty chicken skin etc.

It's hard to give a growing pup too much to be honest, especially a nice fresh meaty diet like that. Generally dogs can't get enough of those tasty ingredients! Especially greedy little pups!! Not sure what the cause of the inappetance is .....

Whispered

Got a big bag of "mixed bits" from a butcher today, feels heavy enough to last a least a week. Although I'll have to weigh it all out tomorrow of course to make sure. Lots of fatty bits and little ribs (:( little ribs) as well as chunks of meat. Delighted I got it.

Centra are doing a special offer on beef at the moment so I bought a few packets. I was away last night and came home to.... no beef. Apparently Kieran made himself a curry with one whole packet then gave another pack and a half to Harley. That would have been 3 days worth for him. haha, he must have been very happy with that!

Miller has decided he wants to eat raw too. So now the cat is being free fed kibble and gets a bit of fatty meat every now and again. He's turning into a monster, every time the fridge opens he runs in mewling. :rolleyes:

DogsFirst

Whispered wrote: »

Got a big bag of "mixed bits" from a butcher today, feels heavy enough to last a least a week. Although I'll have to weigh it all out tomorrow of course to make sure. Lots of fatty bits and little ribs (:( little ribs) as well as chunks of meat. Delighted I got it.

Centra are doing a special offer on beef at the moment so I bought a few packets. I was away last night and came home to.... no beef. Apparently Kieran made himself a curry with one whole packet then gave another pack and a half to Harley. That would have been 3 days worth for him. haha, he must have been very happy with that!

Miller has decided he wants to eat raw too. So now the cat is being free fed kibble and gets a bit of fatty meat every now and again. He's turning into a monster, every time the fridge opens he runs in mewling. :rolleyes:

Lovely. Cats need meat too, total and utter carnivores. Cheaper to feed them! Got some of that beef in centra. She hammered it in

Lemlin

DogsFirst wrote: »

Up the meat content (include lots of tasty organs etc), drop the veg a bit. They're not necessary. That recipe was to show someone I could get my fresh dog food bill below €1.50 or something!!

My dog has been raw fed for half her life but still doesn't like chicken fillets. Think it's the texture. Feed smaller bits of chick on the bone!! Very tasty chicken skin etc.

It's hard to give a growing pup too much to be honest, especially a nice fresh meaty diet like that. Generally dogs can't get enough of those tasty ingredients! Especially greedy little pups!! Not sure what the cause of the inappetance is .....

I generally wouldn't give chicken fillets but my brother got his hand on a few boxes for his dogs so he gave me one of them for my two.

I'm not sure about her liking the organs tbh. I managed to get a load of turkey guts off a neighbour (who will have plenty over the next few weeks luckily) so I'm going to try her on those but she didn't seem at all interested in the tripe. And she seems to like liver far less than fish or chicken.

This morning I gave her the last of that tripe I had, mixed through with liver, veg and rice, with an egg cracked on top. I gave her exactly 400 grams. She didn't seem at all interested in it when I was leaving for work. The breeder told me she's a field trial Labrador so will be smaller and quicker than the chunkier breed. He told me her final weight will be about 18kg so I was trying to feed her about 6kg a week (30% of her body weight) which is about 850 grams a day.

She seemed hungry because when I brought out the food, I put it on the back window sill and she was sniffing away trying to get at it but then when I put it down, she sniffed it and walked off.

I'll try to up the meat content a bit over the next few days with the turkey guts and see how she gets on.

One question I do have, what supplements do people add and where do they get them? I generally add garlic (get that in Tesco), a few tea spoons of salmon oil (get that from Zooplus) and some apples.

I'd be interesting in what supplements others add though and where they actually get them and the price?

tk123

Lemlin are you feeding white or green tripe?

Lemlin

tk123 wrote: »

Lemlin are you feeding white or green tripe?

I don't know tbh. Whatever type it is the smell is unreal.

I got it off a man who has greyhounds. I wasn't aware there were two different types. I was told the type I got is cow's stomach.

DogsFirst

It's invariably green tripe. It'll be green if it smells rotten, can look brown, the older the smellier. White stuff is washed clean, doesn't smell too bad, but not recommended.

EVERYONE CHECK YOUR TRIPE FOR FLUKE, THERE IS A SEROIUS ISSUE WITH THIS AT THE MOMENT. WE HAVE STOPPED USING IT DUE TO THREE CORRUPTED LOADS IN A ROW!!

Check earlier post here for pics of what the fluke look like. Or type in "rumen fluke" into boards and see how many farmers are having a problem with it. These can and do populate dogs, readily.

DogsFirst

Hey Lemlin, re supplements, kelp is brilliant, probably the best. Available all over web. There are two types, Laminaria (very good, real kelp) and Ascophyllum (not as good, regularly sold as kelp, great for cleaning their teeth though!!). Stuffed full of all the good stuff as well as a few polysaccharides that are only found in seaweed which are proven to have a variety of benefits including anti-oxidants, anti-tumour growth etc!!

Also great is gluten free brewers yeast (stuffed full of vitamins and trace elements).

Also bit of safflower oil if you can find it. Great for coats. Half a teaspoon twice a week.

Any herbs that are good for humans are brilliant for dogs too if you wanted to sneak them in now and again. Talk to natural shop, they're full of info.

Fresh / raw fed dogs don't really require all the extra stuff mind, but dry fed dogs with depleted vitamin levels absolutely do.

tk123

I've been playing that lidl scratchcard game thing on FB everyday in the hope of winning a €50 voucher to spend on meat lol!!

kam3qnwvebf4jh

Has anyone tried Slaneypetfoods yet?
22 euro for 20 pounds of chicken/beef sounds too good to be true ?

Lemlin

DogsFirst wrote: »

Hey Lemlin, re supplements, kelp is brilliant, probably the best. Available all over web. There are two types, Laminaria (very good, real kelp) and Ascophyllum (not as good, regularly sold as kelp, great for cleaning their teeth though!!). Stuffed full of all the good stuff as well as a few polysaccharides that are only found in seaweed which are proven to have a variety of benefits including anti-oxidants, anti-tumour growth etc!!

Also great is gluten free brewers yeast (stuffed full of vitamins and trace elements).

Also bit of safflower oil if you can find it. Great for coats. Half a teaspoon twice a week.

Any herbs that are good for humans are brilliant for dogs too if you wanted to sneak them in now and again. Talk to natural shop, they're full of info.

Fresh / raw fed dogs don't really require all the extra stuff mind, but dry fed dogs with depleted vitamin levels absolutely do.

Thanks for the info.
Is there anything you'd recommend as a natural repellent to worms/fleas that can be added to food?

DogsFirst

Lemlin wrote: »

Thanks for the info.
Is there anything you'd recommend as a natural repellent to worms/fleas that can be added to food?

Wormwood is an excellent herb for anti-worm in dogs. It is highly effective on intestinal parasites. Others include liquorice but to be honest a quick google will give you many more. Use a variety, you can't OD on small herb inclusions. If you suspect a worm issue, like you can see it in their poo, a dose of drontal may be required. After this I would immediately dose with natural anti-oxidants (available in any health food store) to purge the body of chemicals.

Neurotoxic flea drops are almost never recommended though some types are useful for mange etc. Lets assume your dog's not there yet. Fresh garlic and rosemary work well for flea repellents. Clean all bedding areas first. There are a number of coat washes you can make up, again google will give you what you need. Away from laptop at mo

juniord

diatomaceous earth is a good supplement for parasites , it can be put in the food for internal or dusted on the coat for external parasites