Changed to Raw :-)

DBB

I would be very much inclined to make sure the dog is getting bone and cartilage, for the life of the dog but particularly whilst he's growing. It doesn't have to be entire.. The raw meats from Slaney, and I'm assuming the Carnivore Kelly's meats and chubs, have bone minced into them.

tk123

DBB wrote: »

I would be very much inclined to make sure the dog is getting bone and cartilage, for the life of the dog but particularly whilst he's growing. It doesn't have to be entire.. The raw meats from Slaney, and I'm assuming the Carnivore Kelly's meats and chubs, have bone minced into them.

Slaney definitely do but some of the kellys minces are just meat... I even had a rabbits eye in the mince last week(!) :eek::pac:
Personally I'd stick to minces for the first few weeks to give the dog's stomach time to get used to it and the right level of acids etc to build up before giving actual bones which is what I assumed Dubs1990 was asking about. Lucy swallowed her first duck neck whole too as she was a gulper as a pup. (it stayed down thank god lo!l)

PrincipessaBox

I wonder do the minces on the dog raw food market include cartilage which is necessary for joint support? Although I give my dog joint supplement I would prefer raw food rich in cartilage,ligaments... Joint bones and not just "bones" ,its not the same. My dog is arthritic and had cruciate ligament knee surgery year ago, so I am trying to minimise developing arthritic changes in future.
This is what I already new before but I will try to explain that with explanation from one BARF manufacturer from Germany and his beef mince, and this would be key points:
The secret of healthy ingredients from the bones are actually joints. The tubular part of the bone contains fibrous proteins that are absolutely non-digestible and marrow, which is the fat of that dog can get diarrhea. The healthiest part of the bone is cartilage and everything in and around the joint. The healthiest part of long bones are only the tops, pieces of ribs, throats and almost the entire pelvis - pelvis and breastbone that operate inside the spongy, contain minerals (calcium and phosphorus, primarily) and joint bone chondroitin and glucosamine.

So I actually tried to give my dog only beef joint bone but she can't eat it, she just plays with it,its to big, so I would really like to find BARF with grounded bones which would "do the job" like lubricating and protection of joints, hips...
Puppies, whose bones are developing, especially large breeds, would benefit a lot from this kind of BARF, and possibly could avoid joint&hip problems in future.

DBB

I'd be pretty sure that the ones I mentioned above include the cartilage in the bone content... no reason why it wouldn't, as their minced meats (the ones that don't specifically state "meat only" comes from entire chunks of what's left over after the usable meat has been removed for human consumption... bones, joints, mesentery, meat, the lot!
If you're in any doubt, drop them an email to ask!

tk123

PrincipessaBox wrote: »

I wonder do the minces on the dog raw food market include cartilage which is necessary for joint support? Although I give my dog joint supplement I would prefer raw food rich in cartilage,ligaments... Joint bones and not just "bones" ,its not the same. My dog is arthritic and had cruciate ligament knee surgery year ago, so I am trying to minimise developing arthritic changes in future.
This is what I already new before but I will try to explain that with explanation from one BARF manufacturer from Germany and his beef mince, and this would be key points:
The secret of healthy ingredients from the bones are actually joints. The tubular part of the bone contains fibrous proteins that are absolutely non-digestible and marrow, which is the fat of that dog can get diarrhea. The healthiest part of the bone is cartilage and everything in and around the joint. The healthiest part of long bones are only the tops, pieces of ribs, throats and almost the entire pelvis - pelvis and breastbone that operate inside the spongy, contain minerals (calcium and phosphorus, primarily) and joint bone chondroitin and glucosamine.

So I actually tried to give my dog only beef joint bone but she can't eat it, she just plays with it,its to big, so I would really like to find BARF with grounded bones which would "do the job" like lubricating and protection of joints, hips...
Puppies, whose bones are developing, especially large breeds, would benefit a lot from this kind of BARF, and possibly could avoid joint&hip problems in future.

Chicken/duck/turkey feet would be a cheap option since they're all cartilage

Email but do your own research would be my advise - like the German retailer's attitude - the manufacturers (as opposed to re-sellers) will give the same kind of spiel as to why their product is the supposedly the best and everyone else's is crap! :rolleyes:

DBB

Email but do your own research would be my advise - like the German retailer's attitude - the manufacturers (as opposed to re-sellers) will give the same kind of spiel as to why their product is the supposedly the best and everyone else's is crap! :rolleyes:

Lol, that probably very much depends on who you get talking to

PrincipessaBox

tk123 wrote: »

Chicken/duck/turkey feet would be a cheap option since they're all cartilage

Email but do your own research would be my advise - like the German retailer's attitude - the manufacturers (as opposed to re-sellers) will give the same kind of spiel as to why their product is the supposedly the best and everyone else's is crap! :rolleyes:

I am pretty sure he wanted to emphasize the importance of joint bones in raw food rather than saying other BARF product is crap
For example, I am feeding with Nutriment at the moment, and the Beef formula doesn't contain bone at all, it is stated on the web and on the box.
Also, I am looking for chest freezer, do you guys have one for BARF? Which size should I look for? I suppose 60l is too small? Any advice?

tk123

I went for an upright freezer over a chest one on advise from other people - it's easier to organise things and see what I have. I tried out some chest freezers in DID etc and found I had to stand on my tippy-toes to reach down to the bottom so knew it'd be a pain lol! No problems with the upright one at all. I went for a frost free one and it's brilliant - I wish our house freezer was frost free too - can't wait for the bloody thing to break and replace it lol! Go for Beko if you plan to have it in a shed at any stage. I went from 1 drawer in the house freezer -> under counter freezer -> shed with under counter freezer and upright freezer


My dog had pretty major surgery on his legs btw and I've supplemented since as well as feeding raw. It's a small price to pay for me because he's so healthy and pain free.

PrincipessaBox

Yeah, I am sure upright are much more handy, thanks for advise.
I am planing to fill it up with lots of different stuff, now I am forced to only necessary because I don't have enough space, but once I get freezer, I will get chicken feet, necks, fish,oxtail and also try again with bones, but smaller one:) I saw Slaney has great range of treats and bones, hope they are not too big. Next time I will order beef trachea stuffed with chicken, OMG, I was so happy when I saw it in range, but unfortunately its out of stock..
It is not the topic, but after my dog had knee TTA surgery, she recovered well, but recently she started to limp after running/swimming on the other rear leg, I am afraid its happening what happens in 70%; when dogs tears one ligament, soon the same thing happens with the opposite leg.
I am searching for great orthophedic vet./surgeon in ROI, who will examine and do RTG, and determine if she candidate for surgery (again)

tk123

PrincipessaBox wrote: »

Yee leg.
I am searching for great orthophedic vet./surgeon in ROI, who will examine and do RTG, and determine if she candidate for surgery (again)

Shane Guerin in Gilabbey vets in Cork is the best in Ireland - he did Bailey's operations.

Selfheal

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nala2012 wrote: »

Anyone feeding their cats raw? My cat is indoor only and getting a bit fat so trying to be careful about how much she eats. She was getting one pouch of natures menu and some meowing heads dry food. Last night i gave her a chicken wing it took her a while but eventually she ate it all. Just wondering how many she can have a week and should i give them instead of the pouches?

We've been feeding our cat 50% raw since we got her aged five months. She is eight years old now. In the morning she gets one scoop of the Hills nuts from the Vet, and for dinner she gets either roughly chopped turkey or chicken breast. Her coat is so shiny it actually glistens, and she has always been very healthy thank goodness. Occasionally if she gets bored with her diet we will hive her a small Tesco can of wet food. She wont touch pouches, of any variety...

Millem

I hope I am posting in the right place! I have 2 labs 30kg and 35kg. I looked at "dogsfirst" site and it suggests the girls need 600g and 700g each day. They had links to a shop in clondalkin. So could I just buy something like this https://carnivorekellys.myshopify.com/collections/famous-meat-mix-chubs/products/new-chicken-beef-plus
Does that have everything it in?
Also please excuse my ignorance but everything goes in the freezer and then I defrost in fridge the night before?

DBB

That is a complete food, but variety is the spice of life, so throw in the odd egg, tin of fish, yogurt, or whatever meat and veg leftovers you have yourself. There are also supplements that raw feeders use, just in case you're missing out on anything nutritionally, you've got that safety net.
You may have to tinker with the amounts.. If I feed my 40kg GSD to 2% of her body weight, she gains weight. She's not an overly active dog so doesn't burn it off.

Millem

DBB wrote: »

That is a complete food, but variety is the spice of life, so throw in the odd egg, tin of fish, yogurt, or whatever meat and veg leftovers you have yourself. There are also supplements that raw feeders use, just in case you're missing out on anything nutritionally, you've got that safety net.
You may have to tinker with the amounts.. If I feed my 40kg GSD to 2% of her body weight, she gains weight. She's not an overly active dog so doesn't burn it off.

Dbb I always thought I would have to make my own so delighted I found a ready made one! I had visions of me with mincers etc! Is that complete food very expensive compared to making it myself?
It seems I feed much more than dry food?

DBB

You do feed more because there's a lot more water in wet food.
Unless you've got a way of buying meat cheaply, the chubs are a wee bit more pricey than buying meat over the counter... But they're very handy too! If they're the same size as they used to be, you'll fit about 12kg of chubs into one freezer drawer. And yes, defrost them before feeding them!
I'm assuming your dogs, being labs, will hoover anything up? I have found my dogs go through spells of not wanting to eat raw, but they will eat it cooked. You may find you have to do this at first to entice the girls, but maybe not, if they're typical labs

Millem

DBB wrote: »

You do feed more because there's a lot more water in wet food.
Unless you've got a way of buying meat cheaply, the chubs are a wee bit more pricey than buying meat over the counter... But they're very handy too! If they're the same size as they used to be, you'll fit about 12kg of chubs into one freezer drawer. And yes, defrost them before feeding them!
I'm assuming your dogs, being labs, will hoover anything up? I have found my dogs go through spells of not wanting to eat raw, but they will eat it cooked. You may find you have to do this at first to entice the girls, but maybe not, if they're typical labs

Oh gosh I never thought about freezer space! We just have 1 fridge freezer! The smaller lab will eat anything and I mean anything even tries to eat dirty nappies :eek: the older one is the biggest fusspot you will ever meet!
If I ever give them cooked (if my dog food hasn't arrived) I see the carrots in their poo? Should I avoid carrots

tk123

Doesn't that 'plus' chubb have extra fat in it or something so you feed less or for higher energy dogs? I don't buy the chubs because they're too expensive ....or anything from Kellys any more for various reasons - I find Slaney better for variety/service/value because I'm on his route for his meat runs He even dropped an order to me on a Saturday one time when I'd missed the FB post saying he was doing a run and he was going to be at a show in Cloughran.
You could always start with something like chicken legs - you don't HAVE to get minces.

Millem

tk123 wrote: »

Doesn't that 'plus' chubb have extra fat in it or something so you feed less or for higher energy dogs? I don't buy the chubs because they're too expensive ....or anything from Kellys any more for various reasons - I find Slaney better for variety/service/value because I'm on his route for his meat runs He even dropped an order to me on a Saturday one time when I'd missed the FB post saying he was doing a run and he was going to be at a show in Cloughran.
You could always start with something like chicken legs - you don't HAVE to get minces.

Tk I don't have a clue about raw tbh. I just thought that ready made stuff would have everything in all the right proportions! I don't have a lot of time or storage space. I know this is probably a stupid question but Do the dogs eat the bones? I don't want to give them bones that would take long to eat as they will fight and WW3 will break out :eek:

tk123

Millem wrote: »

Tk I don't have a clue about raw tbh. I just thought that ready made stuff would have everything in all the right proportions! I don't have a lot of time or storage space. I know this is probably a stupid question but Do the dogs eat the bones? I don't want to give them bones that would take long to eat as they will fight and WW3 will break out :eek:

Yep they eat the bones and chicken bones are quite soft so won't last long enough to have a fight over! I used to separate my two eating when Lucy was a pup but they sit out now beside each other eating their bones.

DBB

One of the advantages to both the chubs, and the Slaney minced foods, is that there's bone mashed up into the mince, so your dog gets the nutritional value out of them without eating them the traditional way!
If you're short of freezer space, then combining raw with Rocco (or similar) is a good comprise... Hell, even combining it with a good quality dry food isn't a bad compromise either!
Another suggestion, if it's an option that's open to you, is to make space in shed for a cheap freezer, maybe a 2nd hand one? Like tk, it didn't take long at all for me to resign myself to having a freezer for us, and a freezer for the dogs

Millem

DBB wrote: »

One of the advantages to both the chubs, and the Slaney minced foods, is that there's bone mashed up into the mince, so your dog gets the nutritional value out of them without eating them the traditional way!
If you're short of freezer space, then combining raw with Rocco (or similar) is a good comprise... Hell, even combining it with a good quality dry food isn't a bad compromise either!
Another suggestion, if it's an option that's open to you, is to make space in shed for a cheap freezer, maybe a 2nd hand one? Like tk, it didn't take long at all for me to resign myself to having a freezer for us, and a freezer for the dogs

We designed a big special press in the kitchen for them to fit those curver 20kg dog food bins. Maybe a small freezer would fit there? Our shed is not wired
We are going on hols next week so won't be changing until the following week at the earliest. Was thinking of switching to totw or wold of the wilderness but they have seem to have many ingredients in them compared to burns as younger dog is very sensitive. I am just aware that burns doesn't have a lot of meat in comparison. Could I in theory just say give them potatoes, veg and raw meat (chicken wings) from fridge (not defrosted)? Or does it all need to be mashed and mixed?

tk123

Millem wrote: »

Could I in theory just say give them potatoes, veg and raw meat (chicken wings) from fridge (not defrosted)? Or does it all need to be mashed and mixed?

Yeah that's fine! Although I find chicken wings too small - I've had whole bones come out so feed duck wings instead and all good. Some people say they don't need veg blah blah - well Bailey LOVES it and asks for help if there's veg stuck and he needs help with his bowl lol Their tummies will mix it for you would be my motto! Today my 2 are getting duck wings, tripe, rabbit, kefir and veg for Bailey - I don't give it to Lucy because it can make their ears yeasty and she's had problems in the past. Any leftover veg goes in their bowls too. There's rarely any leftover meat untill somebody ie my mum has saved them something

Millem

Gosh I need to do lots of research on it for quantities! I do my food shopping on tesco online. I presume tesco is not good value? I wouldn't mind just making potatoes, veg and then raw meat to start me off!

DBB

Chicken legs are also a good size for labs too.
Amounts... 70% meat and offal (don't forget the offal!), 20% veg, 10% spuds.