Changed to Raw :-)

toadfly

FINALLY Lexi got her first raw meal this morning. She got an oyster leg and some veg (cooked spud, carrot&broccoli). This evening she is getting a chick drumstick and veg. In a week or so I will introduce some fish and then some liver or kidney. Don't want to go too varied yet. Fingers crossed it works for her.

Thanks to tk123 & dogsfirst for the info and help.

Edit: it cost €5 for 8days worth of meat :-)

tk123

haha well done!! I'm doing up my veg for the month atm - I'll post up some pics of the "burgers" when I portion them out! :P

toadfly

Haha do! I done the veg only enough for 9 days while I was waiting for my breakfast to cook this morning so really isn't too much hassle.

DBB

Oooh, well done Tillygirl, it does take a little bit of extra work but it feels nice knowing exactly what's going into your dog.
I know my own crew here took a while to get into eating their meat raw (I know... it seems so weird, you'd think they'd dive in!), so at first I very lightly cooked the meat, and gradually eased them towards raw.
I think this diet is great for dogs generally, but for me, it really comes into its own when the dog gets older. I think dogs fed dry food start to crock up earlier than fresh fed dogs. I think commercial foods give their liver and kidneys too much work to do over their lifetime, resulting in problems with these major organs earlier than you'd expect.
Not only that, but the fresh diet, especially when you add fish, has been proven to prevent and reverse mental ageing/dementia in older dogs.
Happy days!
Good luck with it, keep us posted how you get on!:)

tk123

Here's our veg I freeze them in sheets like that first then divide the lot into a couple of freezer bags - the more space in the freeze the bigger the bags lol. I was very pleased with myself when I realized a portion was the same size as the sections in the muffin tray!

DBB

LOL, stick a couple of Bundies around them with a squirt of tomato ketchup, and you could open up a stall

tk123

DBB wrote: »

LOL, stick a couple of Bundies around them with a squirt of tomato ketchup, and you could open up a stall

I'll give pet expo a call tomorrow and see if they have any left! :p

toadfly

DBB wrote: »

Oooh, well done Tillygirl, it does take a little bit of extra work but it feels nice knowing exactly what's going into your dog.

It really does, I was quite proud of myself this morning feeding her the 4 ingredients! There's no problem with her eating, she will literally eat anything. It looks like such a tiny amount of food though, did ye think that when ye changed?

I was supplementing her dry food with cooked spud and white fish and that had to be done every three days for the last few months because I was using frozen fish and didn't like re-freezing so this is nothing!

Good plan TK, my little balls of veg arent as professional looking!

ekevosu

Do ye get the recipes off dogsfirst or make them yourselves? If so please share the recipes, they look great.

Zapperzy

Your veg burgers look good TK. Still haven't had the time to take the plunge here yet.

Ms Tootsie

TillyGirl wrote: »

It looks like such a tiny amount of food though, did ye think that when ye changed?

I thought the exact same TillyGirl when I switched over but I guess when they are getting the nutrients they need that is all that matters. To put it not so politely we give our guy an extra chicken thigh with breakfast one morning as we left two out my mistake. He also had some left over meat from the sausages we had from dinner the day before, so all in all it almost doubled his portion. It turned out he pooped 5 times that day instead of his normal 2 with all the extra food! Lesson learned, we stick to the portions now and he gets treats with training and a pigs ear on either a Friday or Saturday night as a super treat.

I have been following the recipes at a link Dogs First provided as well and we just had our guy at the groomer for the first time since we switched him off dry food and she was singing his praises for the condition of his coat! She said it was so healthy and shiny and I explained the change in diet which she then attributed the healthy coat to.

I still am working on switching entirely to raw, he still turns his nose up at the odd raw meat. Raw chicken and bacon he loves but raw liver and mince beef not so much so I boil them for 3-4 minutes and then I boil his rice in that water to make sure he gets all the goodness of it.

I am managing to feed him on about 5 euro a week - I got chatty with the butcher in my local area and I now get all our meat there, including the dogs, he then throws in a huge bag of scraps every time, so I spend the 5euro on chicken, mince, liver or pork and then mix them up with the scraps, add in the veg and rice, freeze them and then take them out to defrost every morning as needed - Frodo loves it!!

littlebug

Anyone else's dog not react well to RAW at the start? I gave mine one chicken wing yesterday for the first time and lets just say things weren't 100% at both ends today. I'm reluctant to try again to be honest based on todays...eh.. results

tk123

littlebug wrote: »

Anyone else's dog not react well to RAW at the start? I gave mine one chicken wing yesterday for the first time and lets just say things weren't 100% at both ends today. I'm reluctant to try again to be honest based on todays...eh.. results

It can happen at first like a detox but we had no problems. You could maybe try some chicken or turkey mince with rice or potato - keep it simple and easy to digest at first?

DBB

littlebug wrote: »

Anyone else's dog not react well to RAW at the start? I gave mine one chicken wing yesterday for the first time and lets just say things weren't 100% at both ends today. I'm reluctant to try again to be honest based on todays...eh.. results

I've had a couple of reactions like this. There's a chance she's allergic/intolerant of chicken, though you can test this by simply giving her some raw chicken meat.
But it's quite possibly the bone... Could be too much too soon for her. The couple of dogs of mine that puked up following their first bone, both GSDs, were then given just the wing tips, or the cartilage-y bit of the breastbone (that's the scientific name for it ;-) ), just to get them used to it all. No problems now, entire chicken carcasses are devoured with gusto!
You could also try feeding her some Naturediet, or meat that's been minced with bone in it, to gradually get her system on track.

littlebug

She's fine with cooked chicken so maybe it is the bone. I'll wait a few days and maybe try just wing tips and see how that goes.

tk123 your vege burgers look great. I can't see myself going to that much effort

tk123

littlebug wrote: »

She's fine with cooked chicken so maybe it is the bone. I'll wait a few days and maybe try just wing tips and see how that goes.

tk123 your vege burgers look great. I can't see myself going to that much effort

It's easy - throw it all thru the mincer, mix in salmon oil, portion it out with a measuring spoon and freeze.

TooManyDogs

DBB wrote: »

but for me, it really comes into its own when the dog gets older. I think dogs fed dry food start to crock up earlier than fresh fed dogs. I think commercial foods give their liver and kidneys too much work to do over their lifetime, resulting in problems with these major organs earlier than you'd expect.

I totally agree with this. I have been raw feeding for 4 years now and my 14 year old pain-in-the-rear-escape-artist-dog has baffled vets with her blood test results, they just can't believe that her results are all well within normal ranges. He just kept shaking his head and saying it was astonishing that none of them reflected her age.

Added to that the damn dog still has the energy and muscle tone to run for miles a day, normally those miles are when she ditches me with a big doggy grin and middle finger held firmly in the air! Only difference in the last year is that she doesn't like to come biking with us, and refuses to walk early in the morning now. Other than that will happily come jogging with us, any number of walks, climb anything and occasionally comes agility training (won't do the weaves anymore though). I firmly believe she wouldnt be able for all this and be this well if she was on commercial food.

boomerang

The veggie patties look brillo! What veggies do you put in them? That could work beautifully for my dog as I like to give her a little bit of veg every day - mostly green veg.

Totally agree that the benefits of feeding a raw or home-prepared diet come into their own as you dog enters old age.

My lady can only have beef rarely as it makes her mildly itchy. Apparently that's not too uncommon. I empathise because too many tomatoes give me hives

tk123

boomerang wrote: »

The veggie patties look brillo! What veggies do you put in them? That could work beautifully for my dog as I like to give her a little bit of veg every day - mostly green veg.

Green beans, carrots, apples, potato and salmon oil. (I was using Lupoderm oil from Zooplus but decided to try salmon oil for a change).

bluecherry74

Has anyone tried this yet?

http://www.petbliss.ie/acatalog/gRaw_Fresh_Meat_Dog_Food.html

I just ordered a box. I usually use Prize Choice for my dogs' evening feed (chicken legs for brekkie) and this is a tad more expensive, but I like that it has liver and kidneys already mixed in so I won't have to weigh everything separately. The packaging sounds like it won't take up much space in the freezer too. (I'm getting a small chest freezer soon though as I have NO space in the freezer for my own food! :mad: )

tk123

bluecherry74 wrote: »

Has anyone tried this yet?

http://www.petbliss.ie/acatalog/gRaw_Fresh_Meat_Dog_Food.html

I just ordered a box. I usually use Prize Choice for my dogs' evening feed (chicken legs for brekkie) and this is a tad more expensive, but I like that it has liver and kidneys already mixed in so I won't have to weigh everything separately. The packaging sounds like it won't take up much space in the freezer too. (I'm getting a small chest freezer soon though as I have NO space in the freezer for my own food! :mad: )

Check out the pet expo thread - they were giving samples and a few people have ordered it so might be able to give a review.

DBB

bluecherry74 wrote: »

Has anyone tried this yet?

http://www.petbliss.ie/acatalog/gRaw_Fresh_Meat_Dog_Food.html

I just ordered a box. I usually use Prize Choice for my dogs' evening feed (chicken legs for brekkie) and this is a tad more expensive, but I like that it has liver and kidneys already mixed in so I won't have to weigh everything separately. The packaging sounds like it won't take up much space in the freezer too. (I'm getting a small chest freezer soon though as I have NO space in the freezer for my own food! :mad: )

I ordered a 12kg box of the beefy chickeny food, and a 12kg box of the fish last Thursday, hoping it'll arrive tomorrow! That's a month's worth of food for the 60kg of canine flesh living here, to be stored in the dog freezer, because there's a dog freezer and a human freezer here, very handy!
I was also using Prize Choice, but I have to go to a bit of trouble to get it, and I'm a little worried about where the meat in it actually comes from, geographically, and therefore ethically.
As you say, the fact that the offal is already included is great, but I also like that there's veg and herbs in it too, so although a wee bit more expensive than buying the ingredients individually, it'll presumably save time prepping the veg.
But, but, but, it could spell the end of tk's veggie burgers :-o

tk123

DBB wrote: »

But, but, but, it could spell the end of tk's veggie burgers :-o

NEVER!! God maybe I should just set up shop lol 'TK's Best'- it'd save me a lot of work-related stress! :pac:

bluecherry74

DBB wrote: »

I ordered a 12kg box of the beefy chickeny food, and a 12kg box of the fish last Thursday, hoping it'll arrive tomorrow! That's a month's worth of food for the 60kg of canine flesh living here, to be stored in the dog freezer, because there's a dog freezer and a human freezer here, very handy!
I was also using Prize Choice, but I have to go to a bit of trouble to get it, and I'm a little worried about where the meat in it actually comes from, geographically, and therefore ethically.
As you say, the fact that the offal is already included is great, but I also like that there's veg and herbs in it too, so although a wee bit more expensive than buying the ingredients individually, it'll presumably save time prepping the veg.
But, but, but, it could spell the end of tk's veggie burgers :-o

Yep, I love the fact that it's all Irish sourced. The Prize Choice packets are rather vague on that. I ordered the chicken/beef box but I'd love to know how you get on with the fish one. My two aren't keen on raw oily fish and I'm not sure if it's a texture or flavour thing. They'll eat the prize choice minced white fish and cooked canned sardines/mackerel, but they're reluctant to eat raw herring or mackerel. I want to vary their diet as much as possible though.

Dinner time is going to be so much simpler from now on! No more chopping offal or steaming veggies

toadfly

Is it ok to feed tinned sardines with raw? Do any of ye notice your dogs don't drink much water on the raw diet? Lexi literally doesn't drink water now at all. Even after walks.

bluecherry74

My dogs don't drink much on raw either. When I first noticed I panicked before remembering that fresh food has such a high moisture content. They literally drank their bowls dry several times a day when they were on dry food. Now the only time the have a great big drink is after they've been chewing on something like a cows ear.

I feed tinned sardines a couple of times a week and it's fine, I also give them an egg each a couple of times a week (shell included) and a dollop of natural probiotic yogurt occasionally too.

toadfly

Ya I figured it was because of the water in fresh meat but haven't seen her drink in weeks. She seems fine!

BullBauld

Can someone tell me how to calculate how much I feed on a raw diet.

Whats the formula for working out amount of grams needed.

Thanks
Bull

juniord

approx 2.5% of preferred weight, if your dog needs to put on weight add a bit, if a weight loss is desired feed a bit less , after a while you will know by looking at the dog how much to feed

fatmammycat

Totally agree about the water. My fellow used to guzzle water down, now he doesn't drink a quater of what he did on dry food. His poo though, that was a revelation, my god he used to poo so much and such volume, now he poos small hard nuggets and maybe once a day. Another thing I notice is that his breath doesn't smell and he doen't fart ( I know this post seems really scatological, forgive me).
The only downside- for me- is handling offal. I mixed mince and lamb liver and blood into his bowl last week, with an egg on top and smooshed it all together. Gross. He was watching me, drooling. And that's another thing, he is SO into his food now, where as before I was constantly trying to think of things to mix into his dry food to get him to eat it, now he wolfs everything down and best of all he doesn't scrounge when we're eating any more, so I think he's feeling quite satisfied.
Tillygirl, I find him mackeral and/or sardines 3 times a week too.

stevoman

I feed my two working springer spaniels the sarf diet (species appropriate raw food). I never feed my dogs any veg at all and rely completely on raw meats. 75% of my dogs diet consists of pure green raw tripe. Nothing is better for dogs than than real unwashed or tampered with tripe and my god to the dogs mow it down. The only other meats i give them is raw chicken carcasses, minced meat, rabbit carcasses, any raw fish and fleshy bones. I give them an egg up and down, the odd drop of olive oil and the odd drop of apple cider vinegar also. My dogs are shining and conditioned perfectly.

From what research i did into it i dont bother with veg, my thinking and the thinking of the people behind the sarf diet is of course you dont see wolves or wild dogs eating veg in the wild so why give it to them.

tk123

stevoman wrote: »

you dont see wolves or wild dogs eating veg in the wild so why give it to them.

My dog will drop what he's doing including eating a bone and run to the kitchen when he hears the masher being taken out which is why I give him potato lol! He begs for the other veg too so a little of what he fancies lol! :P

DBB

I think the idea behind giving them a wee bit of veg is to substitute what they're missing out on from not eating all the bits of carcasses that are generally taken out before we get to feed them to our dogs? Glands, spleens, pancreases (is that the plural of pancreas? ) and other bits n pieces. The veg bit isn't essential, it just adds an extra bit of oomph.
My understanding is that green tripe already contains many of the elements of veg in the green bit... that's why you give it to them green and unwashed. The green bit of it being from the vegetation the animal has been eating.. I think? Gotta say, the crew here just adore tripe! And as already posted above, they're just beside themselves with excitement about being fed now. Dry food never got them so enthused!

DogsFirst

Watch your tripe this time of year!!

After a very wet summer, you can expect a surge in fluke and worm infestations in ruminants. Fluke spend their intermediate stage in a little snail that lives in the grass. These snails love / need wet ground. The wetter the better. Fluke look like tiny little pink slugs, about the size of a match head. Normally populating the liver, a separate sub species called Rumen Fluke can be found on rumen / tripe. See attached photo. Please check your green tripe this time of year and contact your supplier should you detect any. While lots of raw feeders simply wash them off, believing, correctly, that a raw fed dog has a much stronger constitution than a dry fed dog, it should be noted that worming your dog in Autumn / Winter is advised. Common juniper is great for fluke control though wormwood is by far the most successful natural wormer out there. Also good is pumpkin seed, simmer 500g of pumpkin seed in a pot for a period, reduce and filter mixture, drop on their food.

stevoman

I never even considered fluke. My tripe come from the factory so im hoping that the fluke would be spotted. Any good wormers out there to also prevent? I generally use the stuff in the yellow box, cant think of the name now.

DogsFirst

Always try natural versions above first. If infested, go chemical. And there's never a time to use neuro-toxic flea drops. Better they have the fleas!

DBB

DogsFirst wrote: »

Always try natural versions above first. If infested, go chemical. And there's never a time to use neuro-toxic flea drops. Better they have the fleas!

Hmmm, whilst I'm delighted to see the raw food message gaining ground, I think the above is going to be a step too far for most owners tbh!

DogsFirst

Fair point!!

Papillon!

changed over to some tinned food (i know >:( ) for two days there as i wasnt able to get to the shop for veggies and chicken. THE SMELL off my puppies breath:eek:. Never again, its all pure muck.

straight back on chicken, rice , veggies etc

toadfly

Im such a bad person! Never took food out of the freezer for lexi last nite and nothing in the fridge I could give her. So no breakfast for her this morning!

stevoman

TillyGirl wrote: »

Im such a bad person! Never took food out of the freezer for lexi last nite and nothing in the fridge I could give her. So no breakfast for her this morning!

Leave it in a bucket of boiling water for a few minutes!

bluecherry74

TillyGirl wrote: »

Im such a bad person! Never took food out of the freezer for lexi last nite and nothing in the fridge I could give her. So no breakfast for her this morning!

I used to do that all the time when I first started. Now I just make sure that there are always sardines in the cupboard and eggs in the fridge so they at least have something in their bellies.

Inexile

Tilly girl what breed is Lexi. Im getting more interested in RAW feeding but am looking at cost (I know it shouldnt be about that but ....) I think you said you paid about €5 per week but Im not sure what size dog you are feeding.

I have dipped my toe in water of RAW feeding by testing some K9 Nature food - its a dried raw food. The dogs loved it so have ordered some more but not sure if the price will be prohibitive to sustain it.

DogsFirst

There's a few raw meat suppliers around now.You shouldn't be spending much more than €1.60/kg on fresh chicken / fish for your diet. As veg (in Lidl, €1.25/kg for green beans, peas, carrots) and a bit of whatever is lying around is much cheaper than that, your food bill for a 35kg dog should be around €1.40 a day. You just need to get your supply sorted. Get a chest freezer 15th hand and buy in bulk, <snip> fill it up with chicken, tripe, organs and fish, carcass (free), meaty bones (free), have tins of sardines around (39c) etc.

Mod note: promotion of your own services removed from post, as per the forum charter.
Thanks,
DBB

toadfly

Inexile wrote: »

Tilly girl what breed is Lexi. Im getting more interested in RAW feeding but am looking at cost (I know it shouldnt be about that but ....) I think you said you paid about €5 per week but Im not sure what size dog you are feeding.

She is a 14kg Staffie cross but I am trying to get a bit of weight on her so am feeding a little more, which isnt working by the way!

DogsFirst wrote: »

You shouldn't be spending much more than €1.60/kg on fresh chicken / fish for your diet.

I dont have the room or money to buy a chest freezer so Aldi/Tesco is my only choice at the minute. Anywhere in Connaught I could buy it even slightly cheaper? Where do you get your sardines? I pay 55c in Tesco!

DogsFirst

People are throwing out chest freezers when they move home. I've picked up three smaller ones for clients for under €30! Then filled them full of food and delivered them!!! Keep a close eye on done deal for house moves etc.

Lidl or Aldi for sardines - 39c! In tomato!!

Buckets of chicken for the staffie to bulk, fish won't do it at all! It's a great maintenance food, filler etc but for bulk you want to go a bit more heavy duty!

toadfly

She gets mainly chicken with a fillet of white fish every second day. Can't seem to find oily fish cheap enough.

nala2012

Re the sardines in tomato. I've always bought the ones in sunflower oil because i thought tomatoes were toxic for dogs?

juniord

TillyGirl wrote: »

She gets mainly chicken with a fillet of white fish every second day. Can't seem to find oily fish cheap enough.

i notice your in galway , go to the docks and ask any of the trawlermen if they have spare fish to sell, i was in galway in july i went to thedocks and got 80 mackerel for free

DogsFirst

Small amounts are fine, like garlic etc. Studies done on those foods are on high dose. Omega 6 in veg oil cancels all the goodness of the omega 3 in dogs. Makes them itchy. They have enough omega 6 from all the plant ingredients that they are eating in dry food plant ingredients. If you're trying to boost omega 3 (oily fish) you need to reduce omega 6 (plant oil). In water would be best but they're not available. Even brine is better (1% salt but that's still less than dry food salt inclusions)

fifib

just been reading this thread and finding it very interesting and something i would like to start with my dog. can anyone recommend where i can find more information on this and I guess I should consult with my vet about switching to raw food also?