Do you cringe when people use the C word?

Morag

This was in my newsfeed this morning.
It talks about the stress which women can feel when having to put up with sexist comments esp those related to vaginas.

I can understand how certain comments can piss me off and how repeated use of them can cause stress and dread if you are going to have to be in that sort environment, so much so it can make it feel hostile and so impact on work and study.

Have you had experiences were what people were saying and thier attitudes were such a turn off you found being there or being around them stressful?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/sep/02/vagina-a-new-biography-naomi-wolf

Vagina: A New Biography by Naomi Wolf

In an exclusive extract from her new book, the feminist writer explains how sexist language can wreck women's lives

Words, when deployed in relation to the vagina, are always more than "just words". Because of the subtlety of the mind-body connection, words about the vagina are also what philosopher John Austin, in his 1960 book How to Do Things with Words, calls "performative utterances", often used as a means of social control. A "performative utterance" is a word or phrase that actually accomplishes something in the real world. When a judge says "Guilty" to a defendant, or a groom says "I do", the words alter material reality.


Studies have shown that verbal threats or verbal admiration or reassurances can directly affect the sexual functioning of the vagina. One suggests that a stressful environment can negatively affect vaginal tissue itself. This "bad stress" can also, as it supports or inhibits orgasm, either raise or lower the levels of women's confidence, creativity and hopefulness overall. Women react strongly to male verbal abuse of their vaginas or to implied threats of rape, even when these are "just jokes", for these very reasons – though most of us are unaware of the science behind our gut reaction that this kind of abuse is bad for us.

Comedienne Roseanne Barr described male TV writers' behaviour when women made inroads into their profession: she noted that she hated going up to the writers' house because there would be a "stinky-pussy" joke within three minutes. When a woman faces a workplace in which her male peers want to show her she is unwelcome, similar words or images targeting or insulting the vagina will often surface: centrefolds with legs spread, for instance, and the face of the woman in question superimposed on the naked body, will appear in public.

Of course cultural and psychological motivations play a part in this form of harassment. But the role of manipulating female stress in targeting the vagina should not be ignored.

These acts are often impersonal and tactical – strategies for directing a kind of pressure at women that is not consciously understood, but may be widely intuited, and even survive in folk memory, as eliciting a wider neuropsychological "bad stress" response that actually debilitates women.

In 2010, male Yale students gathered at a "Take Back the Night" event, where their female classmates were marching in a group, protesting against sexual assault. The young men chanted at the protesters: "No means yes and yes means anal." Some of the young women brought a lawsuit against the university, arguing that tolerating such behaviour created an unequal educational environment. Ethically, they are in the right, and neurobiologically, they are right as well. Almost all young women who face a group of their male peers chanting such slogans are likely to feel instinctively slightly panicked. On some level they are getting the message that they may be in the presence of would-be rapists, making it impossible to shrug off immature comments, as women are often asked to do.

Sexually threatening stress releases cortisol into the bloodstream, which has been connected to abdominal fat in women, with its attendant risks of diabetes and cardiac problems; it also raises the likelihood of heart disease and stroke. If you sexually stress a woman enough, over time, other parts of her life are likely to go awry; she will have difficulty relaxing in bed, as well as in the classroom or in the office. This in turn will inhibit the dopamine boost she might otherwise receive, which would in turn prevent the release of the chemicals in her brain that otherwise would make her confident, creative, hopeful, focused – and effective, especially relevant if she is competing academically or professionally with you. With this dynamic in mind, the phrase "**** her up" takes on new meaning.

I experienced firsthand the powerful impact that the words used to communicate about the vagina can have on the female brain. This book had just been signed by a publisher, and I was euphoric, in creative terms, about the research and writing ahead.

At the same time, I was anxious about grappling with such a strong social taboo. At that point, a friend of a friend – an impresario whom I will call Alan, who has a complicated sense of humour and enjoys creating social spectacles that heighten tension – said he wanted to throw a party celebrating my book deal. The party became a topic of conversation among his friends, often with a ripple of amusement – with something oblique in it – as an undercurrent.

Alan told me that he was going to do a pasta party at which guests could make vagina-shaped pasta. I thought that was a funny and sort of charming idea, possibly a tribute to the subject matter, or, at the very least, not awful, though it was not a thematic twist I would have chosen myself.

When I arrived at the party, though, there was a slightly ominous, mischievous stir at the far end of the loft where the kitchen was located. Alan was in the kitchen, surrounded by a crowd of guests. I made my way there, with some trepidation. As I walked toward Alan, I passed the table where the pasta maker had been assembled. A group of people stood around it – fashioning, indeed, little handmade vulvas. The objects were rather sweet looking: like the real thing, the little pasta sculptures varied – each person's experience (or body, perhaps) informing his or her interpretation. There was an energy of respect and even would-be celebration from that table, from both the men and the women. So the platter of pasta resting on the table seemed to me to be assembled with a kind of love: flowery or feathery, fluted or fanned, each small sculpture was detailed and distinct: lovely little white objects against a hand-painted blue Italian ceramic tray.

Alan appeared at my side. "I call those 'cuntini'," he said, laughing, and my heart contracted. A flash of tension crossed the faces of many of the women present. The men's faces, which had been so open, and some so tender, became impassive. Something sweet and new, that had barely begun, was already closing down.

I heard a sizzling sound. I looked to the kitchen: the sound was coming from several dozen enormous sausages, ranged in iron skillets on the big industrial stove. I got it: ha, sausages, to go with the "cuntini". I noticed that the energy of the mixed-gender crowd was now not simple. The room had become more tense – the tension that I was familiar with by now, as I was recognising those moments when women feel demeaned but are expected to "go with it" and have a "sense of humour". My heart contracted further.

Finally, someone called my attention to the final featured item on the evening's menu. On the back burners of the stove, several immense salmon fillets were arranged on another platter. Again: I got it. I got the joke. Women are smelly. Fish-smelling. I flushed, with a kind of despair that was certainly psychological – depression that a friend would think this was funny – but which also felt physical.

But that was not what was really interesting to me about that night. I can deal with a misfired joke, if that was all that the event entailed. What is really interesting to me is that after the "cuntini" party, I could not type a word of the book – not even research notes – for six months, and I had never before suffered from writer's block. I felt – on both a creative and a physical level – that I had been punished for "going somewhere" that women are not supposed to go.

MHalberstram

I don't even know where to begin.

Morag

MHalberstram wrote: »

I don't even know where to begin.

Well you could begin with answering the question, not much chance of a discussion re the topic other wise.

Do you cringe when people use the C word or any other derogatory turn of phrase for the human female genitals?

If the answer is no the fair enough, if you think that people eps women don't get stressed out by people using such language then that fair enough as well.

Some women will get stressed over it some will not, but we do have laws about hostile work environments and many companies HR policies reflect them so it's not supposition pulled out of thin air.

I am really curious if there are ladies who post here who have felt stressed due to being in that sort of environment, esp when it's one like a work situation when it's just not possible to choose to walk away.

awec

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pickarooney

Is there a connection between the title and the content of the thread?

Morag

pickarooney wrote: »

Is there a connection between the title and the content of the thread?

Yes.

meeeeh

I never felt harassed as a woman in friendly male company (there was sexual harassment but from the people I didn't know). At one stage my parents had about 25 male auto mechanics working for them (is there a more stereotypical male sexist environment), I'd work with them and I never felt threatened. There might be more comments directed towards me than other girls because I was single and had no children but it was harmless banter and I mostly got on great with them. Sometimes people get insulted or hurt because they want to.

pickarooney

Well to answer the question itself: no.
Taking into account the loaded, hypocritical and disingenuous way in which it's expanded upon: still no.

awec

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Ellsbells

I cringe when I hear it but then I hate foul language in general. I think Irish people swear way too much and it lets them down. It sounds so bad in company. Funnily the c word sounds worse to me from a girls mouth than a mans.

krudler

awec wrote: »

Her writing style is absolutely awful (Naomi Wolf that is, not Sharrow! )

So abstract and broken, it doesn't convey intelligence which I can only assume is what she was aiming for. Painful to read.

Not just me then, I couldnt make out the point she was trying to convey at all, something about funnily named pasta meaning women should be full of dread, or something.

Stench Blossoms

No. It's a word. It's not going to kill you.

I'd prefer people actually used it instead of the '50 shades of grey' crowd who use 'down there'.

Saying the c-word is sexist now? I say it quite frequently, but rarely ever in a derogatory manner. I don't think I ever have.

I think Scroobius Pip puts it best in his song, Introdiction:

If I say 'f*ck' a lot well then I may gain more attention;
If I say 'c*nt' well then with some of you there will be tension.

I find this interesting 'cause in the end they are just words,
You give them power when you cower, man, it's so absurd.

meoklmrk91

No I don't because it is just a word and nobody should tip toe around it, so many women are happy to call men pricks or other swear words used for the penis but if the word **** is uttered then that is a completely different story.

I see no problem with it and I would use it myself on occasion, it is my favourite of all swear words, I just like how it sounds. Seriously nobody should give any word the power to make them wince, for instance I don't like the word pussy, I find it much more annoying and offensive than ****, but when someone says it I don't wince, because it is just a word.

krudler

meoklmrk91 wrote: »

No I don't because it is just a word and nobody should tip toe around it, so many women are happy to call men pricks or other swear words used for the penis but if the word **** is uttered then that is a completely different story.

I see no problem with it and I would use it myself on occasion, it is my favourite of all swear words, I just like how it sounds. Seriously nobody should give any word the power to make them wince, for instance I don't like the word pussy, I find it much more annoying and offensive than ****, but when someone says it I don't wince, because it is just a word.

Its a fantastic swear word tbh, there's no comeback to it.

Honey-ec

I find men use it almost exclusively refer to other men, tbh. It wouldn't be my favourite word but I don't faint on the spot whenever I hear it.

I don't think I've ever heard anyone use it to refer to an actual vagina.

And for what it's worth, Geebag is one of my favourite insults ever.

Ellsbells

krudler wrote: »

Its a fantastic swear word tbh, there's no comeback to it.

Yeah there is - 'knacker'

Morag

krudler wrote: »

Its a fantastic swear word tbh, there's no comeback to it.

Ever stop to think why that is?
Or the effect it can have on people?


This isn't just about the word it's about the impact of it and the repeated impact of it and other such terms.

krudler

Honey-ec wrote: »

I find men use it almost exclusively refer to other men, tbh. It wouldn't be my favourite word but I don't faint on the spot whenever I hear it.

I don't think I've ever heard anyone use it to refer to an actual vagina.

And for what it's worth, Geebag is one of my favourite insults ever.

Ironically yes, I'd call a guy that before a woman, or adapt it into something else "don't get cnuty" is a great way to tell someone to stop the drama lol

Stench Blossoms

Sharrow wrote: »

Ever stop to think why that is?
Or the effect it can have on people?


This isn't just about the word it's about the impact of it and the repeated impact of it and other such terms.

Oh come off it.

The effect it can have on someone? Seriously?

It's a word.

Morag

Stench Blossoms wrote: »

Oh come off it.

The effect it can have on someone? Seriously?

It's a word.

I've seen people wince and cringe, it can have an emotional impact which is why people use it and why it is so taboo and why it is not considered acceptable in most work places to use it.

awec

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Morag

krudler wrote: »

Ironically yes, I'd call a guy that before a woman, or adapt it into something else "don't get cnuty" is a great way to tell someone to stop the drama lol

So you insult a man by telling him he's nothing but a vagina and tell people to stop being dramatic by saying they are acting like a vagina or someone with one but it's not sexist, rigth suuuuure it's not.

Sharrow

Sharrow wrote: »

Ever stop to think why that is?
Or the effect it can have on people?


This isn't just about the word it's about the impact of it and the repeated impact of it and other such terms.

Anyone that has a massively negative effect to it is letting to - if you don't, then you realize that it is really is just a word. It's become one of my favourite words -

This c*nting weather, that exam was a c*nt, etc. etc.

awec

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Morag

Deleted User wrote: »

Anyone that has a massively negative effect to it is letting to - if you don't, then you realize that it is really is just a word. It's become one of my favourite words -

This c*nting weather, that exam was a c*nt, etc. etc.

That's nice but this thread wasn't aimed at you, it is aimed at people for whom it does have a negative impact on and was aimed at seeing if any of those people would have shared their experiences.

Which given how they have now all been told they are being stupid and to just get over it, I doubt is going to happen.

Cheers.

Honey-ec

Sharrow wrote: »

So you insult a man by telling him he's nothing but a vagina and tell people to stop being dramatic by saying they are acting like a vagina or someone with one but it's not sexist, rigth suuuuure it's not.

I would nearly guarantee that most people who use it aren't specifically thinking of it as a euphemism for vagina. It's just a curse word. Much like fcuk. I use that all the time, and I'm never going "I'm referring to sex here!"

Stench Blossoms

I'd actually love to hear from someone who it does have a negative impact on.

I'd be interested to hear how it impacts them.

Also, just to say.

Have you ever heard an Ozzie say it ? It sounds like 'can't'. I think it's just the Irish way that makes it em... more hostile?

Have you ever called a man a prick? Or a dick? Or said the word balls when you're around them?

The point is that if you get offended and cringe at a word, then you're giving it power. Hell, f*ck used to be a terrible word and now you hear it everywhere, thus pretty much negating its power. C*nt is just the buzz swear word right now - soon it'll be something else and c*nt will seem tame in comparison.

Morag

awec wrote: »

The people it has an effect on are the people who want it to have an effect on them.

:rolleyes:

awec wrote: »

All too happy to pull out the victim card.

That's bullshít.

awec wrote: »

Fair enough plenty of people don't like the word, but this idea that it is somehow damaging them emotionally is ridiculous.

If it causes them stress and that stress is something they are exposed to on a daily bases then yes it can be harmful.

awec

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