Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

March for Choice 29th September

Options
12345679»

Comments

  • Options
    #242
    nozzferrahhtoo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,340 ✭✭✭nozzferrahhtoo


    philologos wrote: »
    What I meant was that many pro-choice people continue to deny that the embryo / foetus is a human life. I'd respect honesty

    If you respect honesty then perhaps you might consider applying some sometime. You wave the word "honesty" around as if that is enough and using the word means you do not actually have to practice it yourself.

    The issue is not that pro-choice people deny it is "human" at all. This is just a dishonest imaginary straw man on your part.

    The issue is that Pro-Choice people realize that it is human in taxonomy ONLY and that taxonomy is not a valid basis to pin higher level philosophical concepts on such as the concept of "Human Ethics and Rights" which is... at the foundation... what the abortion debate is actually about.

    All of this you know too... or should do given you _claim_ to have attended a philosophy course in college.... and so are clearly ignoring and sweeping under the carpet because it is not compatible with your Christian World View.


  • Options
    #243
    Morag
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    Slurryface wrote: »
    The supreme court says different in the X case, even the anti-choice Talabanis admit the X case Judgement makes abortion legal in Ireland.

    That is the ruling but as it remains legislated for the law has not changed.


  • Options
    #244
    Slurryface
    Closed Accounts Posts: 225 ✭✭Slurryface


    Sharrow wrote: »
    That is the ruling but as it remains legislated for the law has not changed.
    Wrong, the ruling made the law repugnant to the constitution.

    "In a surprise verdict, the Supreme Court, by a split decision, delivered on March 5th, held that the threat of suicide constituted a "real and substantial risk to the life of the mother" and that in such an instance the equal right to life of the unborn child as envisaged by the 1983 Amendment could not mean an absolute equality, that in fact the rights of the child were "contingent" on the mothers right and, therefore, of lesser importance. In short, abortion became legal in Ireland by the same Constitutional provision which was designed to prevent that. The girl was permitted to travel to England for an abortion."

    http://www.thelifeinstitute.net/history/the-x-case/


  • Options
    #245
    Morag
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    Slurryface wrote: »
    Wrong, the ruling made the law repugnant to the constitution.

    Look with out the legislation, which will change the current law medical professionals can not draw up guidlines, and codes of practice to preform such procedures here and will not be covered by their professional medical insurance to do them.

    This far these changes have been fobbed off for 20 years until a case was taken to the EU CHR and they have instructed the goverment to get it sorted.

    Which they went from saying back in january that it was important this was done expeditiously to now delaying for expert groups and stalling the ball as much as possible.

    Which is why lobbying and marches are needed.


  • Options
    #246
    Morag
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    Slurryface wrote: »
    http://www.thelifeinstitute.net/history/the-x-case/

    The life institute, one of the many names also used along with SPUC, Mother and Child, Youth Defence, Cior, Libertas. :rolleyes:


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #247
    Slurryface
    Closed Accounts Posts: 225 ✭✭Slurryface


    Sharrow wrote: »
    The life institute, one of the many names also used along with SPUC, Mother and Child, Youth Defence, Cior, Libertas. :rolleyes:
    Yes and my point is that even they (as well as most legal acedemics) accept that the X Case effectivley legalized abortion in certain circumstances.


  • Options
    #248
    Morag
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    Academically but not in reality or in practice.


  • Options
    #249
    gobnaitolunacy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,073 ✭✭✭gobnaitolunacy


    Don't care, not my problem.


  • Options
    #250
    28064212
    Registered Users Posts: 10,516 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    Slurryface wrote: »
    Wrong, the ruling made the law repugnant to the constitution.
    Correct. But the law was still never repealed like it should have been. At the moment (like the last 20 years) we have a law on our hands that directly contradicts the constitution.

    The only way to challenge it is to use a real-life case. That means you need a woman who has both a serious risk to her life resulting from pregnancy, and the means to fight a court-case during which she will be vilified by large sections of society, as well as a doctor who is willing to perform an abortion, fight the court-case, risk his licence and very possibly spend some time in jail.

    Going to England for an abortion is not an easy experience, but compared to the above, it's a walk in the park

    Boardsie Enhancement Suite - a browser extension to make using Boards on desktop a better experience (includes full-width display, keyboard shortcuts, dark mode, and more). Now available through your browser's extension store.

    Firefox: https://addons.mozilla.org/addon/boardsie-enhancement-suite/

    Chrome/Edge/Opera: https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/boardsie-enhancement-suit/bbgnmnfagihoohjkofdnofcfmkpdmmce



  • Options
    #251
    Morag
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    gobnaitolunacy wrote: »
    Don't care, not my problem.

    12 Irish women every weeks go to the UK for an abortion.
    There are women who have done this in your life, friends, workmates even family but you think it's not a problem for you?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #252
    UCDVet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    Sharrow wrote: »
    12 Irish women every weeks go to the UK for an abortion.
    There are women who have done this in your life, friends, workmates even family but you think it's not a problem for you?

    Wouldn't that be a problem for them?


  • Options
    #253
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    philologos wrote: »
    An embryo differs to a single cell insofar as the embryo is the defacto life that is born, that is a child, that is a teenager, an adult and ultimately the very life that dies. There's no comparison. The comparison to bacteria is very weak when we consider that the embryo is the same life. When I was in embryonic form, that was still the same life I now live.
    It's not though, I think the argument that the DNA code that is in the embryo is pretty much a person and it's nearly the same code throughout from birth to death (bar the damage that DNA incurs throughout life) is a good one but it's like having some eggs and flour on your table and saying this is a cake. A person isn't just code, the code is just the foundation it takes experience and a load more development to become a person. A bacteria colony also isn't the same as one bacteria, as the colony grows they essentially become an organism that cooperates and acts as one so it's not that different in some ways.


    Not just the data. It is the very same life biologically.
    It's not, you can't teach an embryo anything, you can't talk to it, it's just a goo in the oven that has the potential to become cake.


    The life is "turned on" from conception. It grows and develops from that point.
    But it has no guarantee it's going to become anything more than an embryo, it's not even guaranteed to become a sentient adult as we know most people become. If a child isn't taught how to be a civilised person they won't become a civilised person. All you have to do is look at feral children to see much human behaviour is taught. You seem to be coming from the point of view that life is all laid out from the beginning and your just fulfilling destiny which is simply not the case. Life is one big gamble where anything can happen and ending up as a civilised human being requires a huge effort it doesn't just happen.


  • Options
    #254
    Morag
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    UCDVet wrote: »
    Wouldn't that be a problem for them?

    So the things which happen to the women in your life just aren't your problem.



    This mornings photo call made it into Broadsheet.

    http://www.broadsheet.ie/2012/09/26/the-abortion-aircoach/


  • Options
    #255
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    gobnaitolunacy wrote: »
    Don't care, not my problem.

    You're sterile with no female friends, relatives, associates.....?


  • Options
    #256
    Quorum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 474 ✭✭Quorum


    Wompa1 wrote: »
    Probably. Pro-Choice sounds less abortiony

    Well, no, pro-choice indicates that you're ok with people have an abortion, but not necessarily saying whether it's for you or not. Choice, ya know, like some women would choose not to have an abortion.


  • Options
    #257
    Slurryface
    Closed Accounts Posts: 225 ✭✭Slurryface


    OurLadyofKnock wrote: »
    Even under pressure from King Herod, I decided to raise my child - but 33 years later the Romans whacked him.
    Yea, but look at all the trouble the fecker is still causing:D


  • Options
    #258
    UCDVet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    Quorum wrote: »
    Well, no, pro-choice indicates that you're ok with people have an abortion, but not necessarily saying whether it's for you or not. Choice, ya know, like some women would choose not to have an abortion.

    Yeah - I'm Pro-abortion. As in, I think more people should get them. I advocate them in all cases of unintentional pregnancies.

    Unless both parents sat down and said, 'Hey - let's have a baby!', I think they should abort.


  • Options
    #259
    Quorum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 474 ✭✭Quorum


    UCDVet wrote: »
    Yeah - I'm Pro-abortion. As in, I think more people should get them. I advocate them in all cases of unintentional pregnancies.

    Unless both parents sat down and said, 'Hey - let's have a baby!', I think they should abort.

    Can't tell if serious...


  • Options
    #260
    UCDVet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    Quorum wrote: »
    Can't tell if serious...

    I'm serious.

    I'm willing to accept that an unborn fetus is a 'life'.
    I just don't accept that it is entitled to be born.

    A high percentage of societies problems come from children who were born (obviously) but were not property taken care of/raised. The percentage of criminals and drug deals who came from broken homes is a lot higher than those who came from loving homes.

    People who 'accidentally' have a child are, by definition, either not ready or don't actively want children. I won't say that makes them bad parents; but I will say it GREATLY increases the odds of them being bad parents.

    Good parents realize that raising children is hard. It's a sacrifice. It's not something to be taken lightly. I think everyone who has children should ACTIVELY decide to be parents. I also think they should objectively quantify their abilities to raise children. They have an obligation to their children to be good parents. If someone is barely able to take care of themselves - I don't believe they should have children.

    Unless someone is 100% ready to have children, I personally believe, it should be avoided. Either through abstinence, birth control, morning after pills or abortion.


  • Options
    #261
    Toby Take a Bow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,732 ✭✭✭Toby Take a Bow


    UCDVet wrote: »
    A high percentage of societies problems come from children who were born (obviously) but were not property taken care of/raised. The percentage of criminals and drug deals who came from broken homes is a lot higher than those who came from loving homes.

    I think economics (and the resulting lack of education) may play a part in this (although I've yet to see a verifiable study stating that a higher percentage of criminals come from broken homes. Not saying that there's not, but if you could provide, I'd be interested in seeing it).


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #262
    Morag
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    If you are going to the march on Saturday and you have a red coat the Preform for Choice group are asking if you can wear it.

    http://www.irishchoicenetwork.com/preform-for-choice.html


  • Options
    #263
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    UCDVet wrote: »
    I'm serious.

    I'm willing to accept that an unborn fetus is a 'life'.
    I just don't accept that it is entitled to be born.

    A high percentage of societies problems come from children who were born (obviously) but were not property taken care of/raised. The percentage of criminals and drug deals who came from broken homes is a lot higher than those who came from loving homes.
    I'd agree with you up to a point, it's better to kill an unaware foetus than it is to put a person through a miserable life. However most animals don't know they're having sex for babies, nature is essentially pulling a fast one on us when it comes to reproduction. Reproduction is more important than all our moralising and I think people should be responsible for their actions. It's not going to happen but that should be the ideal.


  • Options
    #264
    Captain Graphite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭Captain Graphite


    If this had been done a week earlier I'd have gone but I moved to the UK on Sunday so am not around to attend. But I wish everyone marching the best of luck.


  • Options
    #265
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Captain Graphite wrote: »
    If this had been done a week earlier I'd have gone but I moved to the UK

    The irony......


  • Options
    #266
    Demonique
    Registered Users Posts: 2,824 ✭✭✭Demonique


    woodoo wrote: »
    Murderer

    Have never murdered anyone in my life (abortion or otherwise), try again.

    Not like I give much of a s*** about your opinion anyway
    squod wrote: »
    4,000 'aborted' people didn't have the choice to attend last year. I'd expect the same number of 'aborted' people won't get the choice this year to march for their rights.

    Look on the bright side, it just sends them to Jesus faster
    Ambient Occlusion wrote: »
    I still don't understand. Why not keep it illegal here while legalising getting it done over the border. Everybody wins, right?

    Yay for continuing to export abortion to the UK!
    Chucken wrote: »
    No, I'm not stirring ****.


    No one will give a ****, not here anyway, I was born at 24 weeks.


    I'm a person.


    Oh, By the way that was 48 years ago.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure babies born at 24 weeks didn't survive 48 years ago...
    AnonoBoy wrote: »
    24 hour security? Why would they need that?

    Oh yeah, because of whackjobs who want to murder them.

    Didn't anyone ever teach these guys that two wrongs don't make a right?

    "Pro-lifers" who want to murder them, the hypocrisy burns...


  • Options
    #267
    sethasaurus
    Registered Users Posts: 86 ✭✭sethasaurus


    A real problem we all need to focus on is reaching epidemic proportions.
    Many Irish babies continue to be born with their heads up their asres.
    We should also organise a march for this.


Advertisement