Rangers FC On Field Gossip & Rumour Thread 2017 Mod Note in OP(Updated 14/08)

karma_

Eirebear wrote: »

Cue another "Going against the spirit of the game" rant from the usual suspects.

In fairness the current transfer policy is a bit ridiculous, without even touching the 'spirit of the game' argument. Currently you are buying SPL quality players to compete at Tier 3 level and paying wages to match. Why not buy Championship quality players and they would do for 2 seasons and then chase SPL level players. Look at the Miller move this week, he's 33 years old and would be 35 before you got back to the SPL. Is that good business? It's fairly clear that Rangers are making the same mistakes of yesteryear.

Broxi_Bear_Eire

And it's 2-0 in the 17th minute with a header from McCulloch.

Broxi_Bear_Eire

karma_ wrote: »

In fairness the current transfer policy is a bit ridiculous, without even touching the 'spirit of the game' argument. Currently you are buying SPL quality players to compete at Tier 3 level and paying wages to match. Why not buy Championship quality players and they would do for 2 seasons and then chase SPL level players. Look at the Miller move this week, he's 33 years old and would be 35 before you got back to the SPL. Is that good business? It's fairly clear that Rangers are making the same mistakes of yesteryear.

Miller is one player. As for the rest most will be there when we get back to the top flight and will have two and three years if playing together which will be important.
The wages well we know that the money offered this year was drastically cut from the year before.
You also have to remember many players will not come to us if we were to offer third tier wages.
The money problems we seem to have at the moment come from the massive wages and bonuses certain directors gave themselves.

Also what EB was referring to was the Trialists playing

A Dub in Glasgo

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

And inside the first minute Clarkscores his debut goal for Rangers after running onto a knockdown he slotted it past the keeper

Are you sure? Livescore has the first scorer as A Trialist :pac:

Broxi_Bear_Eire

And McCulloch makes it three in the 36th minute with a header after a good cross from Wallace

karma_

Seriously, are you playing trialists in a league match?

And I thought your transfer policy was insane.

Eirebear

karma_ wrote: »

In fairness the current transfer policy is a bit ridiculous, without even touching the 'spirit of the game' argument. Currently you are buying SPL quality players to compete at Tier 3 level and paying wages to match. Why not buy Championship quality players and they would do for 2 seasons and then chase SPL level players. Look at the Miller move this week, he's 33 years old and would be 35 before you got back to the SPL. Is that good business? It's fairly clear that Rangers are making the same mistakes of yesteryear.

The Miller move?
You know something I don't because Miller is very much still a Whitecaps player.

Out of the current Rangers squad, only the following will be over 30 in at the start of the 2015 season
Emilson Cribari
Lee McCulloch
Richard Foster
Stephen Smith
Ian Black
Dean Shiels
Jon Daly

Within that group, Smith, Foster, Shiels and Black will all be just turned 30.

Out of a 31 man squad currently, there are 21 players under 25, 15 of them coming through the youth system.
Age certainly is not a factor.

I agree, we may be over reaching things to an extent - Guys like Foster and Smith shouldn't be needed for cover, and I certainly don't want Miller to be brought in.
However i think you're also underestimating the demands that Rangers have upon them even from "League 1".
The majority of Rangers fans expect a cup semi final at the very, very least this season - while the less realistic among us will settle for nothing other than a win in the Scottish Cup.

Today's squad is a case in point.
3 of the starting line up and 9 of the 18 are a product of the youth system.

Eirebear

karma_ wrote: »

Seriously, are you playing trialists in a league match?

And I thought your transfer policy was insane.

Yeah, imagine giving players who are joining the club when the transfer embargo ends a run with the players.

I don't know if you noticed, but we highly underperformed last year, and the one game which saw us play last year's squad ended in defeat.

karma_

Eirebear wrote: »

The Miller move?
You know something I don't because Miller is very much still a Whitecaps player.

Out of the current Rangers squad, only the following will be over 30 in at the start of the 2015 season
Emilson Cribari
Lee McCulloch
Richard Foster
Stephen Smith
Ian Black
Dean Shiels
Jon Daly

Within that group, Smith, Foster, Shiels and Black will all be just turned 30.

Out of a 31 man squad currently, there are 21 players under 25, 15 of them coming through the youth system.
Age certainly is not a factor.

I agree, we may be over reaching things to an extent - Guys like Foster and Smith shouldn't be needed for cover, and I certainly don't want Miller to be brought in.
However i think you're also underestimating the demands that Rangers have upon them even from "League 1".
The majority of Rangers fans expect a cup semi final at the very, very least this season - while the less realistic among us will settle for nothing other than a win in the Scottish Cup.

Today's squad is a case in point.
3 of the starting line up and 9 of the 18 are a product of the youth system.

Yes, my point is that all those players are SPL level and totally unnecessary for the level you find yourselves at and is akin to throwing money away. It's like buying a Ferrari to race stock cars.

Eirebear

karma_ wrote: »

Yes, my point is that all those players are SPL level and totally unnecessary for the level you find yourselves at and is akin to throwing money away. It's like buying a Ferrari to race stock cars.

Or building a team who will have a good solid knowledge of each other by playing with each other for two years?

karma_

Eirebear wrote: »

Or building a team who will have a good solid knowledge of each other by playing with each other for two years?

And how much is it going to cost you?

The only point I'm trying to make is that the resources you are currently spending could be better spent. Is that too controversial considering teh clubs recent woes?

Eirebear

karma_ wrote: »

And how much is it going to cost you?

The only point I'm trying to make is that the resources you are currently spending could be better spent. Is that too controversial considering teh clubs recent woes?

I'm not suggesting it's controversial, simply pointing out that there are other ways to look at it.

It's a young squad by any standards, and by the time we're back in the SPL we should be in good shape.
Yes, of course it's a gamble, but so would buying "League 1 level players" who would then make it a lot harder to bounce back quickly.

bobmalooka

Personally I don't think there's anything 'wrong' with getting as good a quality player as you can.

I understand your point about building an SPL quality side now and giving them 2 years to tighten up but when rangers are looking at the possibility of administration before the end of this season due to that overspending then its a mental plan.

If I was a rangers fan I'd be demanding to know how the wages will be sustained cos it could be one step forward two steps back

Eirebear

bobmalooka wrote: »

Personally I don't think there's anything 'wrong' with getting as good a quality player as you can.

I understand your point about building an SPL quality side now and giving them 2 years to tighten up but when rangers are looking at the possibility of administration before the end of this season due to that overspending then its a mental plan.

If I was a rangers fan I'd be demanding to know how the wages will be sustained cos it could be one step forward two steps back

It very much could be, I'm still not persuaded that we're heading for admin though, but as you say we will be losing a lot of money in the current situation.
As I've already said, it's a huge gamble, but to be honest it would be every bit as big a gamble to bring in lesser players and rebuild a full squad every season in the hope that these "lesser" players are good enough for the job.

Broxi_Bear_Eire

bobmalooka wrote: »

Personally I don't think there's anything 'wrong' with getting as good a quality player as you can.

I understand your point about building an SPL quality side now and giving them 2 years to tighten up but when rangers are looking at the possibility of administration before the end of this season due to that overspending then its a mental plan.

If I was a rangers fan I'd be demanding to know how the wages will be sustained cos it could be one step forward two steps back

The point is that it's not the wages for the players that have been the main problem it is the exhibit ant wages of certain directors and also bonuses they took I mean a financial director giving himself a bonus for winning the bottom tier. That is why the fans are angry and want changes at the top.

And it's four with a lovely voley from Lewis McLeod in the 53rd minute

Eirebear

Just to add to the transfer thing.
Considering that we've been under a transfer embargo for the last 18 months, if we had went down the "lesser player" route, we would be talking about bringing in lower level players who had been released from their clubs, free transfers.
I'm not sure that would have been the way to go for Rangers to be honest.

5-0 McCullouch

Broxi_Bear_Eire

McCulloch gets his hat trick with a header after a great ball in from McAusland to make it 5-0 in the 53rd minute

bobmalooka

Eirebear wrote: »

It very much could be, I'm still not persuaded that we're heading for admin though, but as you say we will be losing a lot of money in the current situation.
As I've already said, it's a huge gamble, but to be honest it would be every bit as big a gamble to bring in lesser players and rebuild a full squad every season in the hope that these "lesser" players are good enough for the job.

It's a while since I looked at the figures but without a big cash injection or major drop in costs it looked like ye would hit major trouble in February/march, the green regime clearly intended on cashing in this season and in my opinion the 'big' signings are being made to keep the fans quiet.

I do agree with ya that its a good plan for the squad if it was financially viable but I really don't think it is.

Based on the figures available rangers won't last the season unless a huge amount of money comes in.( maybe the board have an ace up their sleeve)

Are any fan groups chasing this?

Broxi_Bear_Eire

bobmalooka wrote: »

It's a while since I looked at the figures but without a big cash injection or major drop in costs it looked like ye would hit major trouble in February/march, the green regime clearly intended on cashing in this season and in my opinion the 'big' signings are being made to keep the fans quiet.

I do agree with ya that its a good plan for the squad if it was financially viable but I really don't think it is.

Based on the figures available rangers won't last the season unless a huge amount of money comes in.( maybe the board have an ace up their sleeve)

Are any fan groups chasing this?

Yeah fans groups are chasing it but more importantly other shareholders are. They are calling for an EGM as they want a clear out that's why Green has jumped ship more will follow. Also where are you getting your figures from as no accounts have been released

Eirebear

bobmalooka wrote: »

It's a while since I looked at the figures but without a big cash injection or major drop in costs it looked like ye would hit major trouble in February/march, the green regime clearly intended on cashing in this season and in my opinion the 'big' signings are being made to keep the fans quiet.

I do agree with ya that its a good plan for the squad if it was financially viable but I really don't think it is.

Based on the figures available rangers won't last the season unless a huge amount of money comes in.( maybe the board have an ace up their sleeve)

Are any fan groups chasing this?

I think the fans group are still chasing the EGM, although it's looking more and more like it will be avoided by the directors.

Broxi_Bear_Eire

Wee bit of trivia Lee McCulloch in scoring three today completed his first ever competitive hat trick

bobmalooka

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

Yeah fans groups are chasing it but more importantly other shareholders are. They are calling for an EGM as they want a clear out that's why Green has jumped ship more will follow. Also where are you getting your figures from as no accounts have been released

Nothing official but I'm a trainee accountant and the figures I saw are rumoured to be from the club to investment firms, not much more detail than what's already in the papers tbh but tell the same story, more money in than out.

The stuff I saw was trying to portray a decent possibility of a long term return with heavy short term losses.

Speculative stuff but enough to raise questions

Edit: if those figures are any where close to the truth than a new board would probably need to sell in January or else find lots of cash/loans either way is better than insolvency.

Jelle1880

Apparently a fan in hospitality today choked on something and didn't make it

Broxi_Bear_Eire

bobmalooka wrote: »

Nothing official but I'm a trainee accountant and the figures I saw are rumoured to be from the club to investment firms, not much more detail than what's already in the papers tbh but tell the same story, more money in than out.

The stuff I saw was trying to portray a decent possibility of a long term return with heavy short term losses.

Speculative stuff but enough to raise questions

Edit: if those figures are any where close to the truth than a new board would probably need to sell in January or else find lots of cash/loans either way is better than insolvency.

If a new board gets in and it's made up of the people pushing for change them they are willing to put their own money in

bobmalooka

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

If a new board gets in and it's made up of the people pushing for change them they are willing to put their own money in

It will take real rangers fans to fix the club, chuck green has managed to make ye a bad business in less than a year.

It could cost 10 million pound a year to keep the show in the road for a couple if years before there's any real prospect of breaking even (which won't be easy) and it'll be a hell of a long time till them losses are clawed back (if ever)

I'd be very wary if people who say they'll throw their own money in as its completely reckless and simply won't last, ye need someone with a plan to balance the books.

Are any of the people pushing for change publicly disclosing their business plan or are they spouting the same guff as whyte and green?

Broxi_Bear_Eire

bobmalooka wrote: »

It will take real rangers fans to fix the club, chuck green has managed to make ye a bad business in less than a year.

It could cost 10 million pound a year to keep the show in the road for a couple if years before there's any real prospect of breaking even (which won't be easy) and it'll be a hell of a long time till them losses are clawed back (if ever)

I'd be very wary if people who say they'll throw their own money in as its completely reckless and simply won't last, ye need someone with a plan to balance the books.

Are any of the people pushing for change publicly disclosing their business plan or are they spouting the same guff as whyte and green?

Dave King is a real Rangers man yes he has had his problems with the SA tax people but that's sorted now and as he put plenty in before and has said he is ready to do so again I have no reason to doubt him.
You don't need to tell us about Green etc I think the fans are well aware of what has happened.
Their are others hovering who are not short of a few bob along with King. I am sure we will get there. That's motto say I am not worried only a very foolish bear would say they aren't
The people pushing are not going to disclose the actual plan until they have control they wouldn't be very good business men if they did

bobmalooka

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

Dave King is a real Rangers man yes he has had his problems with the SA tax people but that's sorted now and as he put plenty in before and has said he is ready to do so again I have no reason to doubt him.
You don't need to tell us about Green etc I think the fans are well aware of what has happened.
Their are others hovering who are not short of a few bob along with King. I am sure we will get there. That's motto say I am not worried only a very foolish bear would say they aren't
The people pushing are not going to disclose the actual plan until they have control they wouldn't be very good business men if they did

We'll have to wait and see I guess.

You'd have a better idea than me as to wether the average Rangers fan is ready to accept that they need to pay more if they want the club to pluck players from a higher level to pump part timers or else a more organic approach is needed whereby talented youngsters with a couple of experienced heads do enough to win the league.

Maybe it's bad business to tell fans the reality of the situation as a lot of fans of every club want to have their cake and eat it.

Dave king or whoever takes over will have to stump up to get ye to the end of this season but anyone who allows ye to start a season facing a 10 million loss isn't in it for the long term.

Keep that in mind when these lads are saying what they want to do with the club

Broxi_Bear_Eire

bobmalooka wrote: »

We'll have to wait and see I guess.

You'd have a better idea than me as to wether the average Rangers fan is ready to accept that they need to pay more if they want the club to pluck players from a higher level to pump part timers or else a more organic approach is needed whereby talented youngsters with a couple of experienced heads do enough to win the league.

Maybe it's bad business to tell fans the reality of the situation as a lot of fans of every club want to have their cake and eat it.

Dave king or whoever takes over will have to stump up to get ye to the end of this season but anyone who allows ye to start a season facing a 10 million loss isn't in it for the long term.

Keep that in mind when these lads are saying what they want to do with the club

King couldn't get involved to to the tax case he had in SA and considering he put 20m hard cash in one go and another 20 over three years then I think he will be in it for the long term. He may not be everyone's cup of tea but as far as Rangerz go I won't and don't doubt he had the interests if the lunar heart. He had plenty if money so he won't go down the Whyte route or Green who is a souvenir

Eirebear

Kings had the South African thing hanging over him since the Murray era was starting to crumble, and has made noises about getting involved all the time.

We'll see.
Sadly, we don't have a Fergus McCann hanging in the background, football has changed a lot since those days and it;s harder to come in and make a profit the way he did - especially in Scotland.

Lennonist

Eirebear wrote: »

Cue another "Going against the spirit of the game" rant from the usual suspects.

No-one would accuse ye of that - operating within "the spirit of the game" I mean.

The transfer window slammed shut in Scotland last night two days before it closes in England and most other places around Europe. There are those saying that the window closed early because the SFA made an admin error when handing out a transfer ban to The The Rangers and the window closed early in order to make the embargo effective. Was wondering what your thoughts were on that?