Rally for The Quinn-were you there?

Death and Taxes

handlemaster wrote: »

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/quinn-workers-block-factory-entrances-16234100.html


"We demand, however, a resolution that will save our jobs, our communities and our future livelihoods."


thats a great quote... good way to go about it stopping work... the customers will wait !!!

Perfectly logical I suppose, if you are a disciple of the cult of quinn-ism!

oldyouth

John_Rambo wrote: »

I don't think it would be a good idea to cement that idea by letting him pay his way out of gaol time with ill gotten gains.

I got a chuckle out of that

tayto lover

up for anything wrote: »

Or we could go back to the days where rich people could pay someone else to do their jail time for them. He'd be able to foot the bill for that out of his hidden, stolen money. :rolleyes: It would also serve to take some desperate creature off the live register. Double win.

You don't have to go back far for crazy penalties.
There was two cases recently where people convicted of sexual offences were not jailed and told to pay compensation to their victims.
I would advocate both the prison time and the compensation. No compensation then longer prison time.
The only thing that annoys me about Quinn's case is that the Bankers and Regulator are not in the same cell along with a few complicit politicians. In fact the Regulator was given a lump sum of 630K and a pension for looking the other way :rolleyes:

darkhorse

K-9 wrote: »

THe judge probably wasn't convinced of his efforts over the last 2 weeks and that article outlines the lengths they went to breach the order. Really, he has been given so many chances at this stage, I don't understand how people would side with him.

But why would the judge discount it even when the lawyer says it?

Earlier this month newlawyers retained by Sean Quinn Snr told the High Court that he wants to purgehis contempt, and is willing to co-operate with the former Anglo IrishBank.

By the way, I equally dont understand why, after admitting that what he done was wrong, and offered to try make it right, but was'nt even listened to by the powers that be, people seem to be siding with Anglo/IBRC(what's in a name).

IBRC CEO Mike Aynsley said:

''I strongly believe that this name change is of symbolic importance to all of us as we move on from the past.
''The cost to the Irish taxpayer caused by the disastrous lending practices and poor stewardship of Anglo Irish Bank and INBS will not be forgotten or forgiven.

So there's the solution. Just get a different name.

hardCopy

darkhorse wrote: »

But why would the judge discount it even when the lawyer says it?

Earlier this month newlawyers retained by Sean Quinn Snr told the High Court that he wants to purgehis contempt, and is willing to co-operate with the former Anglo IrishBank.

By the way, I equally dont understand why, after admitting that what he done was wrong, and offered to try make it right, but was'nt even listened to by the powers that be, people seem to be siding with Anglo/IBRC(what's in a name).

IBRC CEO Mike Aynsley said:

''I strongly believe that this name change is of symbolic importance to all of us as we move on from the past.
''The cost to the Irish taxpayer caused by the disastrous lending practices and poor stewardship of Anglo Irish Bank and INBS will not be forgotten or forgiven.

So there's the solution. Just get a different name.

Why would they believe him now? He was given time to purge the contempt but was happy to leave his son in jail and do nothing to fix it, instead he spent his time crying for the cameras on the back of a lorry.

later12

handlemaster wrote: »

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/quinn-workers-block-factory-entrances-16234100.html


"We demand, however, a resolution that will save our jobs, our communities and our future livelihoods."


thats a great quote... good way to go about it stopping work... the customers will wait !!!

They're also demanding "some... independent inquiry" into the legitimacy of the dealings between the then Anglo Irish Bank and Sean Quinn and the Quinn Group.

Eh, like the High Court proceedings that Quinn already lost last July? Mr Justice Peter Kelly deliberated over the matter for almost 4 months in the High Court during 2012, and found that Quinn had no legitimate case.

Having said that, I do find some of the claims of the Quinn Group, that the asset decisions have been taken by the younger Quinn family members, and not the old man himself, a little troubling. That could quite reasonably be true, based on media reports over the weekend, particularly an excellent feature that appeared in the Sunday Business Post. The imprisonment of Sean Quinn is not quite as black and white as some people would like to believe.

K-9

Basically he said he really, really, really, really meant it this time.

darkhorse wrote: »

But why would the judge discount it even when the lawyer says it?

Earlier this month newlawyers retained by Sean Quinn Snr told the High Court that he wants to purgehis contempt, and is willing to co-operate with the former Anglo IrishBank.

By the way, I equally dont understand why, after admitting that what he done was wrong, and offered to try make it right, but was'nt even listened to by the powers that be, people seem to be siding with Anglo/IBRC(what's in a name).

IBRC CEO Mike Aynsley said:

''I strongly believe that this name change is of symbolic importance to all of us as we move on from the past.
''The cost to the Irish taxpayer caused by the disastrous lending practices and poor stewardship of Anglo Irish Bank and INBS will not be forgotten or forgiven.

So there's the solution. Just get a different name.

darkhorse

hardCopy wrote: »

Why would they believe him now? He was given time to purge the contempt but was happy to leave his son in jail and do nothing to fix it, instead he spent his time crying for the cameras on the back of a lorry.

Sunday November 04 2012
Nine weeks in jail now stretch in front of the man who once sat at the top of the business world, writes Tom Lyons


The drama began on Thursday when the taxpayer-owned IBRC, formerly Anglo Irish Bank, said it believed that Sean Quinn Sr had failed to purge his contempt of court since this was found in June.

Eugene Grant argued for Sean Quinn that he was "absolutely committed" to purging his contempt and had signed every document that was put in front of him by IBRC.

handlemaster

darkhorse wrote: »

Sunday November 04 2012
Nine weeks in jail now stretch in front of the man who once sat at the top of the business world, writes Tom Lyons


The drama began on Thursday when the taxpayer-owned IBRC, formerly Anglo Irish Bank, said it believed that Sean Quinn Sr had failed to purge his contempt of court since this was found in June.

Eugene Grant argued for Sean Quinn that he was "absolutely committed" to purging his contempt and had signed every document that was put in front of him by IBRC.

If you commit an offence and admit you are wrong after denying it for a few years does this make the offence unpunishable ? If that were the case there would be no disincentive to commit crime. There would be no structure in society to protect the person and no services provided as no taxes etc would be paid.

hardCopy

darkhorse wrote: »

Sunday November 04 2012
Nine weeks in jail now stretch in front of the man who once sat at the top of the business world, writes Tom Lyons


The drama began on Thursday when the taxpayer-owned IBRC, formerly Anglo Irish Bank, said it believed that Sean Quinn Sr had failed to purge his contempt of court since this was found in June.

Eugene Grant argued for Sean Quinn that he was "absolutely committed" to purging his contempt and had signed every document that was put in front of him by IBRC.

When did he give the money back?

darkhorse

hardCopy wrote: »

When did he give the money back?

Would you please read the posts, or, if you dont want to read posts, at least read something thats relevant to the forum that you are posting on. They, Anglo/IBRC refused his help in trying to recover the money, (which was posted twice on this thread), according to the lawyers, and instead, they contracted a russian agency(worth reading up on who they are) at an initial cost of €31 million, possibly rising to €155 million if they are successful in recovering the assets.

hardCopy

darkhorse wrote: »

Would you please read the posts, or, if you dont want to read posts, at least read something thats relevant to the forum that you are posting on. They, Anglo/IBRC refused his help in trying to recover the money, (which was posted twice on this thread), according to the lawyers, and instead, they contracted a russian agency(worth reading up on who they are) at an initial cost of €31 million, possibly rising to €155 million if they are successful in recovering the assets.

Last minute promises and offers of help are useless. He had weeks to get the money back, talk is cheap.

bluecode

He offered to help the bank (actually us Irish taxpayers) get the money back? :eek: That's like a thief offering to recover your stolen property. He should already have been doing everything he could to get it back. Not offering 'help'.

But apart from anything else it's an admission of guilt in that he knew what was going on.

His defence of his actions is all rather pathetic particularly the sad tale of how he was conned by Anglo Irish bank executives. Remember we are not talking about some old pensioner who had his life savings taken away from him. We are talking about one of the richest men in this country. A hard headed businessman who made millions in the ruthless world of business in this country.

We are expected to believe that he innocently walked into Anglo Irish bank where suits there smooth talked him into borrowing multiple millions. Only for him to lose it all. Or at least that's the spin he puts on it.

He and his relatives knew exactly what they were doing and what they were getting into. But like all the rest they lost it all in the crash. Well not all of it. So they got busy hiding what was left and then lying to the courts about where it went.

They are as crooked as the people who ran Anglo. Who should also be in jail and hopefully will be soon. They have no conscience about it either and could give a damm that the ordinary taxpayers in this country will probably spend the rest of their lives paying back the money the Quinns lost with stupidity and greed. Today I renewed my car insurance. I seriously resent that a portion of that money is going to bail out the Quinns. That sickens me. I'm paying for their greed. But they are clinging on desperately to their millions.

Frankly he should be locked up until all the money is paid back. May he rot in prison, he and his sticky fingered relatives.

Anyone who supports the Quinns is a fool. They are laughing at you.

el diablo

darkhorse wrote: »

Would you please read the posts, or, if you dont want to read posts, at least read something thats relevant to the forum that you are posting on. They, Anglo/IBRC refused his help in trying to recover the money, (which was posted twice on this thread), according to the lawyers.......

No offense darkhouse but I think you're being a little naive here.

Pottler

Anglo/IBRC(which is one of the most ironic, pi55 takey acronyms ever btw) focked the financial world up the hole by grossly misrepresenting their financial position, propped up their share price through the wildest, most desperate and possibly illegal(hah) schemes possible, now they are pursuing people as the "righteous" ones!
Has it ever occurred to anyone on here that there is a huge possibility that S.Quinn was qiven two choices when it came to his "investments" in Anglo?? If I owe you 200 million for legitimate business loans, and you, as my banker approach me and inform me of my good fortune in being selected to be the lucky buyer of a shedload of shares(at a slightly unrelalistic price) or my lines of credit will be withdrawn faster than a Jack-russels flute from a pedigree Labrador, what exactly would you do??? Just to state where I'm coming from, I like Sean Quinn, I know his background, I know a lot of other men from his area and background, and personally, I think he has been royally fcuked. And thats my view.:)

darkhorse

bluecode wrote: »

He offered to help the bank (actually us Irish taxpayers) get the money back? :eek:
We are expected to believe that he innocently walked into Anglo Irish bank where suits there smooth talked him into borrowing multiple millions. Only for him to lose it all. Or at least that's the spin he puts on it.
I'm paying for their greed.

Will you give me a link to, or show me some documented evidence, that Quinn borrowed from the taxpayer, as I am only depending on information that I read in the newspapers. Now, I dont know Quinn, and from all that I read, I know he done wrong, but I keep asking myself, why would the richest man in the country risk throwing it all away. You see, there has to be two sides to this story, and I think the majority of the media are not telling the full story.
By the way, I came across this blog only an hour and a half ago, and it is very interesting.
I'll post the link, and could look at and tell me what part of it is wrong.

https://foolscrow.wordpress.com/2012/08/02/the-systematic-plundering-of-sean-quinn-people-of-ireland-beware-the-vampire-banks-have-their-fangs-in-you-to

darkhorse

el diablo wrote: »

No offense darkhouse but I think you're being a little naive here.

None taken, my friend. I only post what I read in the papers. I really would'nt clever enough to make it up.

Spiritual

darkhorse wrote: »

Will you give me a link to, or show me some documented evidence, that Quinn borrowed from the taxpayer, as I am only depending on information that I read in the newspapers. Now, I dont know Quinn, and from all that I read, I know he done wrong, but I keep asking myself, why would the richest man in the country risk throwing it all away. You see, there has to be two sides to this story, and I think the majority of the media are not telling the full story.
By the way, I came across this blog only an hour and a half ago, and it is very interesting.
I'll post the link, and could look at and tell me what part of it is wrong.

https://foolscrow.wordpress.com/2012/08/02/the-systematic-plundering-of-sean-quinn-people-of-ireland-beware-the-vampire-banks-have-their-fangs-in-you-to

I too have always had a problem with where the blame lays here. Yes, Quinn is wrong but those that facilitated that wrong have to be held to account also. There is something that doesn't sit well with me in this case and the one-sided approach from the Irish media smells of Government cover-up.

The court case for Sean Fitz and co may bring out something.

handlemaster

Pottler wrote: »

Anglo/IBRC(which is one of the most ironic, pi55 takey acronyms ever btw) focked the financial world up the hole by grossly misrepresenting their financial position, propped up their share price through the wildest, most desperate and possibly illegal(hah) schemes possible, now they are pursuing people as the "righteous" ones!
Has it ever occurred to anyone on here that there is a huge possibility that S.Quinn was qiven two choices when it came to his "investments" in Anglo?? If I owe you 200 million for legitimate business loans, and you, as my banker approach me and inform me of my good fortune in being selected to be the lucky buyer of a shedload of shares(at a slightly unrelalistic price) or my lines of credit will be withdrawn faster than a Jack-russels flute from a pedigree Labrador, what exactly would you do??? Just to state where I'm coming from, I like Sean Quinn, I know his background, I know a lot of other men from his area and background, and personally, I think he has been royally fcuked. And thats my view.:)

Like all entrepreneurs Quinn took a risk when he alone decided to invest in Anglo shares through the use of Contracts for difference. When the shares started to go south the difference had to be made up with the brokerage. The capital required by Quinn in order to do this was manageable for a time. Hecould have sold out and taken the hit, but as with many he decided to chase the losses thereby losing more. The bank became aware of his shareholding and in order to prop up the share price (prevent its spiral downwards) they either offered him a loan or he asked for it. This loan was cross securitised on the Quinn cash cow which was the insurance company but this was a fallacy. The insurance business was not maintaining correct unencumbered capital buffer forclaims. When the shares ultimately collapsed in Anglo the total amount was dueto be paid.

The gamble didn't pay off. If it did it would have become probably Quinn bank or something like that. If you take the gamble and lose don't cry &whinge about it and pretend you didn't know what you were doing. If the Quinn’swere as they make out to be they would have said... hi it was a gamble we had a great run, we still have millions in the bank, we will walk away from this and start again, thanks to the people of Ireland for supporting us over the last number of years.

darkhorse

Spiritual wrote: »

Yes, Quinn is wrong but those that facilitated that wrong have to be held to account also

There is something that doesn't sit well with me in this case and the one-sided approach from the Irish media smells of Government cover-up.

The court case for Sean Fitz and co may bring out something.

1.Call me cynical, but I cant help thinking at times that the facilitators are in high positions of power

2.I have to agree with you, a cover up from some quarter.

3.It will be interesting to see if indeed Seanie's case does come up before he is too old to remember anything.

sfwcork

I have seen many an article defending sean uinn so I think the arguement of unbiased media is out the window.Yes the main media outlets run the stories against Quinn

I assume you understand the way media works.Not many newspaaers would be sold if they sided with the extreme minority.

bluecode

He didn't borrow taxpayers money but he did borrow money. Now we taxpayers have to pay it back while he hides money all over the place because he refuses to acknowledge his responsibility for his own downfall.

All this talk of a government cover up and a conspiracy against him is utter juvenile nonsense. Read handlemaster's post, sums it up really. He took a gamble and failed. Now he's gambling again that he'll get away with hiding his assets.

He knew exactly what he was doing when he borrowed from Anglo. They were all in on the scam and in their arrogance believed the gravy train would last forever.

No one is out to get him. He did it to himself. If he really wanted to appear credible he should out all the people he says conned him. He won't do that because he was neck deep in it too. So he prefers to pretend there's some secret cabal working against him. Pure Hollywood.

darkhorse

handlemaster wrote: »

Like all entrepreneurs Quinn took a risk when he alone decided to invest in Anglo shares through the use of Contracts for difference. When the shares started to go south the difference had to be made up with the brokerage. The capital required by Quinn in order to do this was manageable for a time. Hecould have sold out and taken the hit, but as with many he decided to chase the losses thereby losing more. The bank became aware of his shareholding and in order to prop up the share price (prevent its spiral downwards) they either offered him a loan or he asked for it. This loan was cross securitised on the Quinn cash cow which was the insurance company but this was a fallacy. The insurance business was not maintaining correct unencumbered capital buffer forclaims. When the shares ultimately collapsed in Anglo the total amount was dueto be paid.

The gamble didn't pay off. If it did it would have become probably Quinn bank or something like that. If you take the gamble and lose don't cry &whinge about it and pretend you didn't know what you were doing. If the Quinn’swere as they make out to be they would have said... hi it was a gamble we had a great run, we still have millions in the bank, we will walk away from this and start again, thanks to the people of Ireland for supporting us over the last number of years.

Just as a matter of interest, handlemaster, would I be correct in saying that, if the govt. did not nationalize this, as one minister put it, defunct bank, would we even be having this discussion.

darkhorse

bluecode wrote: »

He didn't borrow taxpayers money.

AGREED


He knew exactly what he was doing when he borrowed from Anglo.

Patrick Neary, former chief executive of the Financial Regulator


Irish Times, 14 Oct 2008:

"Ireland's banks are solvent and will be able to offset potential losses on property loans with their better-performing loans"

On 16 January 2009, the Taoiseach Brian Cowen stated that is was "business as usual" at Anglo Irish Bank and that people should be reassured that the bank is solvent.

Sounds convincing, no?

darkhorse

bluecode wrote: »

They were all in on the scam and in their arrogance believed the gravy train would last forever. Pure Hollywood.[/QUOTE

Well yer right there, cause our leader was presented with an oscar to-night.

handlemaster

darkhorse wrote: »

Just as a matter of interest, handlemaster, would I be correct in saying that, if the govt. did not nationalize this, as one minister put it, defunct bank, would we even be having this discussion.

the familiar quote " we are where we are". The decision by the people of the land (voted the government in ) was made to back the bank. I think the bond holders/ shareholders would be talking about it now not the general public if it wasn't guaranteed.

robbiezero

guttenberg wrote: »

Not everyone north of the border shares that sentiment.:rolleyes: Self made man creates thousands of jobs, trusted a bank and got duped by them over how stable the bank was and goes to jail? yet nobody at AIB, or any crooked bankers or politicians who also helped throw the country into a recession gets the same ridicule/fate? whys that? Sean Quinn may deserve his jail sentence, but why is he punished when many walking free are just as guilty?

duped by who?

the bank didnt know he was gambling on them.

darkhorse

handlemaster wrote: »

the familiar quote " we are where we are". The decision by the people of the land (voted the government in ) was made to back the bank. I think the bond holders/ shareholders would be talking about it now not the general public if it wasn't guaranteed.

But ya still dont get it. We should'nt be where we are, and no matter what you read in the media, the Quinn family did'nt put us where we are. This spiel that is put out by propagandists, is put out precisely to influence the public to believe just one side of the story, (and please dont tell me that I am wrong, just look at the supreme court finding against the government, on the upcoming referendum for example). It was'nt the Quinns that put the bank guarantees in place. Now, as I said before, Quinn broke the law and should be punished, but after the main case is heard, to determine if the bank acted illegally in their actions, which I think should have been dealt with before now.

darkhorse

robbiezero wrote: »

the bank didnt know he was gambling on them.

And this is fact, is it?

robbiezero

darkhorse wrote: »

And this is fact, is it?

No, they secretly knew and thought it was a great idea to expose their bank like that.