Rally for The Quinn-were you there?

handlemaster

J Mysterio wrote: »

Dell did employ 3000 people here. These people made Dell. They ****ed off to Poland because they could pay their employees dirt there. Thankfully their operation has suffered as a result and they are now about to pull out again. Serves them flucking right.

they sold the factory to Foxconn back in 2009

bbam

J Mysterio wrote: »

Dell did employ 3000 people here. These people made Dell. They ****ed off to Poland because they could pay their employees dirt there. Thankfully their operation has suffered as a result and they are now about to pull out again. Serves them flucking right.

And what laws did they break?
Have Dell been guilty of asset stripping?

The example you give just demonstrates capitalism.

Are we paying any levi based on the behaviour of Dell, no were not.

It's an apples and oranges comparison. Dell made a business decision to move to a low cost country in an attempt to increase their profits.

Quinn on the other hand repeatedly abused his position in the insurance company and now all insurance policies have a levi so the tax payer has to cover the cost.
After failing to repay a loan ye quinns have been stripping their assets with the net result that again the tax payer will pick up their debts. A recognised criminal act.

Nobody is denying that the Quinn group brought jobs and prosperity the their area and that taxes were paid. The problem is that when the going got tough Quinn stuck his fingers up at the tax payer and turned to illegal means to protect his personal fortune.

Happyman42

handlemaster wrote: »

is the court not independent ?

The courts have not heard or examined what happened in Anglo yet.
You that was praising the US a few post ago, are you not suspicious about the time it is taking to get to trial, the US moved swiftly and had people in jail very quickly for what they did.

J Mysterio

HellFireClub wrote: »

I feel like putting my fist through the PC screen here reading this. Sean Quinn didn't employ people for any reason other than that he had identified a demand for a product, (or a series of products, be it cement, glass, radiators, insurance, whatever), and he had to employ people to carry out key activities that needed to be carried out, in order for these products to be put together, sold and paid for.

He didn't hire anyone out of some kind of stupid sense of national responsibility, like every entrepreneur, he hired people to carry out functions that he needed to be carried out, so that he could make a profit.

That's how capitalism works, you identify a demand, you bring in (usually paid resources), to deliver the product, and then you get paid for it, and you repeat that process.

By doing this, Sean Quinn made a phenomenal amount of money. It wasn't about hiring people or creating jobs, it was about working within the capitalist model to create a profit for himself and his family.

There is nothing wrong with that, people up and down the country are doing this (with some considerable difficulty) at the moment.

Sean Quinn was happy to engage in the capitalist process for as long as it was making him serious money, but it appears to me, that now that he has made an extremely poor decision in relation to his entrepreneurial investment portfolio, he somehow expects that the well understood rules of capitalism should be suspended and that the assets that he VOLUNTARILY put up to secure the loan that he look out to buy Anglo shares, should be just disregarded as the security that it is, and casually left with him?!?!?

This guy and his crowd of deluded supporters need to sit down and have a reality check. He made a chronically poor investment decision, he made a bad punt, he secured his borrowings with assets and the dogs on the street know what happens to your assets if you secure a loan with assets and you can't repay the loan.

This is exactly what the banks did but our government was kind enough to give the (our) money back to them.

666irishguy

Quinn was a reckless gambler who lost. Blaming the bank for not being properly regulated is a joke. Nobody held a gun to his head to invest that money. At the end of the day he would still have the business if he had the restraint and satisfaction of holding onto what he already had. He broke the law by putting assets out of reach and was rightfully held in contempt of court. The fact that the Nephew has gone on the run says it all, complete arrogance and lack of respect for the system when it doesn't wave them and their double barrel surnames through to the VIP lounge. Surely if the Quinns are such honest and proud men as they are hailed to be, they would stand up in court and deliver a damnation from the dock upon the "forces" out to persecute them instead of hiding out in the North. Listening to the cries of a media/state cabal lurking in the shadows to wipe them out or blacken their name is the most laughable kind of gumbeenism there is. The old: "The feckers in Dublin" line hauled out again. They are shameless hypocrites in my eyes. Preaching hardship and then shelling out 100,000.00 euro for a flipping wedding cake. The whole case is symptomatic of why the country is in the mess it is in. Nobody wants to face the fact that every second person was as responsible with their money as a child with a blank cheque book wanting more toys.

J Mysterio

bbam wrote: »

And what laws did they break?
Have Dell been guilty of asset stripping?

The example you give just demonstrates capitalism.

Are we paying any levi based on the behaviour of Dell, no were not.

It's an apples and oranges comparison. Dell made a business decision to move to a low cost country in an attempt to increase their profits.

Quinn on the other hand repeatedly abused his position in the insurance company and now all insurance policies have a levi so the tax payer has to cover the cost.
After failing to repay a loan ye quinns have been stripping their assets with the net result that again the tax payer will pick up their debts. A recognised criminal act.

Nobody is denying that the Quinn group brought jobs and prosperity the their area and that taxes were paid. The problem is that when the going got tough Quinn stuck his fingers up at the tax payer and turned to illegal means to protect his personal fortune.

I'm not making a comparison to Quinn. I just made a comment on Dell as someone else brought it in. Yes it is capitalism and it stinks. Fluck Dell.

handlemaster

Happyman42 wrote: »

The courts have not heard or examined what happened in Anglo yet.
You that was praising the US a few post ago, are you not suspicious about the time it is taking to get to trial, the US moved swiftly and had people in jail very quickly for what they did.

You only have to look at the tribunals in this country to know that there is somthing wrong with the legal system here. But that doesn't detract from the cases that have been heard already and its damning against the Quinn family. Will see what happens on friday.

Brain Stroking

Happyman42 wrote: »

I have not made up my mind on Quinn and what he is guilty off. I see a business culture that wasn't regulated at all by those who shold have been regulating.

I think you'll find on doing 10 seconds research just how regulated criminal offences like asset stripping etc are.

Brain Stroking

handlemaster wrote: »

You only have to look at the tribunals in this country to know that there is somthing wrong with the legal system here. But that doesn't detract from the cases that have been heard already and its damning against the Quinn family. Will see what happens on friday.

Please stop with your ill-informed rubbish. The legal system ran the tribunals which were political in origin and nature. The legal system will not acknowledge gombeenism so in my opinion Quinn is screwed. The asset stripping confirms he knows it too. Hence the tears

Happyman42

Brain Stroking wrote: »

I think you'll find on doing 10 seconds research just how regulated criminal offences like asset stripping etc are.

Nobody is disputing that.

handlemaster

Brain Stroking wrote: »

Please stop with your ill-informed rubbish. The legal system ran the tribunals which were political in origin and nature. The legal system will not acknowledge gombeenism so in my opinion Quinn is screwed. The asset stripping confirms he knows it too. Hence the tears

I will spell it out for you .. somthing wrong with the legal system that it takes so long for a cases to come before the court.

bbam

handlemaster wrote: »

I will spell it out for you .. somthing wrong with the legal system that it takes so long for a cases to come before the court.

It's not all bad.
One of the quinns is behind bars and with any luck more will be joining him soon.
Then we need to see what senior bankers need to join them.

Defend Quinn all you want but remember that he is happy to hide his personal fortune while the tax payer takes the hit on his behalf. He was happier to hand it over to criminals in foreign countries rather than pay his debts.

handlemaster

bbam wrote: »

It's not all bad.
One of the quinns is behind bars and with any luck more will be joining him soon.
Then we need to see what senior bankers need to join them.

Defend Quinn all you want but remember that he is happy to hide his personal fortune while the tax payer takes the hit on his behalf. He was happier to hand it over to criminals in foreign countries rather than pay his debts.

true... will see how it goes.

Pal

Colin Shaw wrote: »

FREE SEAN QUINN.

with every box of Kellogg's Cornflakes

Roisy7

Happyman42 wrote: »

There are very few people on this island who don't over indulge and over spend at wedding times and a short drive aroun the country will show you that 99.9% will build ostentatious OTT houses given the chance. It is part of the reason we are in the ****.
Give over with the holier than thou nonsense, you may cut your cloth to suit, the majority don't and didn't.

Happyman you have me completely wrong. I have no objection to anyone making money and spending it as they see fit. I have no objection to a millionaire spending 100k on a wedding cake, even though that cake happens to be the tackiest thing I've ever seen.

However I do object to Sean Quinn and his supporters pretending that he is still a simple farmer's son who is currently struggling to survive. My hole, he would have stayed on the farm if he didn't have the smarts to get where he got. That disingenous talk is infuriating. Again, he didn't do it for the good of Cavan, he did it for Sean Quinn and family.

And something else that drives me absolutely bananas is the attitude that "we all partied" as the late Brian Lenihan said. I don't know anyone who had a helicopter for their child's communion, do you?! During the Celtic Tiger, the majority of people may have bought cars, an extra foreign holiday, better quality clothes and food, but that is NOT the extent of the partying that went on at the top. It was largely created by the media in my opinion.

You're essentially saying it's ok for Sean Quinn to have a big ****-off wedding for his daughter but it wasn't ok for the ordinary person in the Celtic Tiger, who had more money than they'd ever had before, to build a bigger house?

Don't forget credit was being shoved into the Irish people's faces- my mother was unemployed in 2005 and BOI were posting loan application literature to our door. Again, who's decision was this? The bank clerks in our branch? Nope, it's the people at the top.

That attitude of 99.9% of the Irish people are responsible is like going back to the days when we had to be ashamed of buying a new pair of shoes. Stop self-punishing and recognise who's really responsible for this mess.

Happyman42

Roisy7 wrote: »

Happyman you have me completely wrong. I have no objection to anyone making money and spending it as they see fit. I have no objection to a millionaire spending 100k on a wedding cake, even though that cake happens to be the tackiest thing I've ever seen.

However I do object to Sean Quinn and his supporters pretending that he is still a simple farmer's son who is currently struggling to survive. My hole, he would have stayed on the farm if he didn't have the smarts to get where he got. That disingenous talk is infuriating. Again, he didn't do it for the good of Cavan, he did it for Sean Quinn and family.

And something else that drives me absolutely bananas is the attitude that "we all partied" as the late Brian Lenihan said. I don't know anyone who had a helicopter for their child's communion, do you?! During the Celtic Tiger, the majority of people may have bought cars, an extra foreign holiday, better quality clothes and food, but that is NOT the extent of the partying that went on at the top. It was largely created by the media in my opinion.

You're essentially saying it's ok for Sean Quinn to have a big ****-off wedding for his daughter but it wasn't ok for the ordinary person in the Celtic Tiger, who had more money than they'd ever had before, to build a bigger house?

Don't forget credit was being shoved into the Irish people's faces- my mother was unemployed in 2005 and BOI were posting loan application literature to our door. Again, who's decision was this? The bank clerks in our branch? Nope, it's the people at the top.

That attitude of 99.9% of the Irish people are responsible is like going back to the days when we had to be ashamed of buying a new pair of shoes. Stop self-punishing and recognise who's really responsible for this mess.

It was you who mentioned the 100,000 cake, not me. It's not relevant, only in the sense that it is probably exaggerated. It was leaked to the media, who failed to mention that the Alzheimers Society benifitted greatly from this wedding. That's what makes me very suspiciious as to what exactly is going on here. The Irish will indulge their begrudgery if they see somebody fall from grace, that is absolutely what is happening here. They are being played by vested interests.
On the helicopter thing, my family benifitted hugely when 'that' helicopter was sent to pick somebody up and bring them to see a family member injured in a tragic accident, you have no idea the suffering that saved for the person involved. Quinn didn't know any of us but was an aquaintance of an inlaw. It was provided 'free of charge' and I know of many instances where similar was done.
This man was not a criminal and he was not a typical capitalist either. That he suddenly turned into both is stretching incredulity.
He deserves to have all of this stuff aired...all of it, no matter how many come tumbling down.

Roisy7

Happyman42 wrote: »

It was you who mentioned the 100,000 cake, not me. It's not relevant, only in the sense that it is probably exaggerated. It was leaked to the media, who failed to mention that the Alzheimers Society benifitted greatly from this wedding. That's what makes me very suspiciious as to what exactly is going on here. The Irish will indulge their begrudgery if they see somebody fall from grace, that is absolutely what is happening here. They are being played by vested interests.
On the helicopter thing, my family benifitted hugely when 'that' helicopter was sent to pick somebody up and bring them to see a family member injured in a tragic accident, you have no idea the suffering that saved for the person involved. Quinn didn't know any of us but was an aquaintance of an inlaw. It was provided 'free of charge' and I know of many instances where similar was done.
This man was not a criminal and he was not a typical capitalist either. That he suddenly turned into both is stretching incredulity.
He deserves to have all of this stuff aired...all of it, no matter how many come tumbling down.

I'm very sorry to hear about your relative and I hope they are better now.

That wasn't why I brought up the helicopter, I meant simply that there were tales told of ordinary Irish families using helicopters for communions during the Tiger years, which I was pointing out was a media invention and that we didn't all party.

I'm not denying that Quinn did not do good in the Cavan area on a personal level. However, he's not above the law and good he has done has been negated by the burden he placed on Irish taxpayers and on our insurance bills.

Put it this way, JP McManus lives down the road from me and he's done tremendous good for the area and Limerick city in particular. But he's a voluntary tax exile, choosing to not to pay tax when the Irish economy really needs it. Is the good he's done negated by his (completely legal) tax exile status? I would argue yes to a certain extent- what's the point of doing good for Limerick if you're leaving the rest of the country go to hell by not paying taxes?

Is the good Sean Quinn's done been undermined by his illegal actions? I would argue yes.

Begrudgery is a lazy excuse trotted out anytime someone criticises a well-known Irish person. It's not a uniquely Irish trait and I am not a begrudger. Sean Quinn is not above the law, end of.

Hal Decks

Happyman42 wrote: »

It was you who mentioned the 100,000 cake, not me. It's not relevant, only in the sense that it is probably exaggerated. It was leaked to the media, who failed to mention that the Alzheimers Society benifitted greatly from this wedding. That's what makes me very suspiciious as to what exactly is going on here. The Irish will indulge their begrudgery if they see somebody fall from grace, that is absolutely what is happening here. They are being played by vested interests.
On the helicopter thing, my family benifitted hugely when 'that' helicopter was sent to pick somebody up and bring them to see a family member injured in a tragic accident, you have no idea the suffering that saved for the person involved. Quinn didn't know any of us but was an aquaintance of an inlaw. It was provided 'free of charge' and I know of many instances where similar was done.
...........

On the subject of the cake? Quinns stole €100,000 from the company to pay for that cake. They stole from all the taxpayers of this country by not paying BIK on the value of the cake . (And most probably the cost of the wedding too)
The wedding invitations were delivered by courier, with expensive spa treatments for the ladies and expensive golf outings for the gents. Who paid for all of that? The Company, no dount?

Don't go bleating about how good the wedding was for charity. Every one of them are hypocrites. No charitable donation will make up for the wanton excess and vulgarity of that wedding.

Happyman42 wrote: »

................
This man was not a criminal and he was not a typical capitalist either...............

What World are you living in? He was a criminal, and is a criminal. He is GUILTY of Contempt of Court.

As for not a capitalist? A man who, somehow, accumulated wealth of €4 billion, was not a typical capitalist?

What about Mrs Quinn? Director of 96 companies, Company Secretary of 10 and, all along, she claims to be a thick housewife? What about the €3m mortgage she signed for, for that ridiculous house she lives in?

Each and every one of the Quinn family needs to be brought to his/her knees. They are all criminals, rotten to their core.

Happyman42

Hal Decks wrote: »

On the subject of the cake? Quinns stole €100,000 from the company to pay for that cake. They stole from all the taxpayers of this country by not paying BIK on the value of the cake . (And most probably the cost of the wedding too)

As I have said, I'll wait until the full facts are known first. I suspect he was a criminal (something I don't dispute btw) after a greater crime was committed against him and his company.

The wedding invitations were delivered by courier, with expensive spa treatments for the ladies and expensive golf outings for the gents. Who paid for all of that? The Company, no dount?

Don't go bleating about how good the wedding was for charity. Every one of them are hypocrites. No charitable donation will make up for the wanton excess and vulgarity of that wedding.

Wealthy people in lavish wedding shock!
Begrudgery much eh?

He is GUILTY of Contempt of Court.

Nobody is disputing that, calm down.

As for not a capitalist? A man who, somehow, accumulated wealth of €4 billion, was not a typical capitalist?

I meant that in the sense that he didn't live a particularly ostentatious lifestyle and remained true to his roots. Not typical.

What about Mrs Quinn? Director of 96 companies, Company Secretary of 10 and, all along, she claims to be a thick housewife? What about the €3m mortgage she signed for, for that ridiculous house she lives in?

I would say, you need to open your eyes,that would be a fairly common phenonomen in Irish business, my mother in law was the director of 14 companies and had genuinely no idea, until her partner died.

Each and every one of the Quinn family needs to be brought to his/her knees. They are all criminals, rotten to their core.

:rolleyes:

Happyman42

Roisy7 wrote: »

I'm very sorry to hear about your relative and I hope they are better now.

That wasn't why I brought up the helicopter, I meant simply that there were tales told of ordinary Irish families using helicopters for communions during the Tiger years, which I was pointing out was a media invention and that we didn't all party.

I'm not denying that Quinn did not do good in the Cavan area on a personal level. However, he's not above the law and good he has done has been negated by the burden he placed on Irish taxpayers and on our insurance bills.

Put it this way, JP McManus lives down the road from me and he's done tremendous good for the area and Limerick city in particular. But he's a voluntary tax exile, choosing to not to pay tax when the Irish economy really needs it. Is the good he's done negated by his (completely legal) tax exile status? I would argue yes to a certain extent- what's the point of doing good for Limerick if you're leaving the rest of the country go to hell by not paying taxes?

Is the good Sean Quinn's done been undermined by his illegal actions? I would argue yes.

Begrudgery is a lazy excuse trotted out anytime someone criticises a well-known Irish person. It's not a uniquely Irish trait and I am not a begrudger. Sean Quinn is not above the law, end of.

Quinn and the Irish people are 'below' the law. Because we don't know what happened in Anglo.

tigger123

Happyman42 wrote: »

Quinn and the Irish people are 'below' the law. Because we don't know what happened in Anglo.

The defence of "Anglo is corrupt" is such a red herring, and it's a diversionary tactic, and anyone who can't see that has their blinkers on.

There is no conspiracy on behalf of the Govt. There is no conspiracy on behalf of the media. And there is certainly no conspiracy on behalf of the judiciary.

It's entirely understandable that some people in the Cavan area are hurting due to job losses, and its understandable that they're looking for someone to blame, but this is down to the Quinn family, plain and simple.

Not too sure what these rallies are supposed to actually achieve either, I mean, the judiciary is entirely independent from political pressure ... so what are they hoping to a achieve???

Happyman42

tigger123 wrote: »

There is no conspiracy on behalf of the Govt. There is no conspiracy on behalf of the media. And there is certainly no conspiracy on behalf of the judiciary.

How do you know all this?

the judiciary is entirely independent from political pressure ... so what are they hoping to a achieve???

Hugely ironic that you would post this on the day that a man had his sentence overturned because a judge 'erred' in his interpretation.
A judge can only make judgement on what he is presented with.

tigger123

Happyman42 wrote: »

How do you know all this?





Hugely ironic that you would post this on the day that a man had his sentence overturned because a judge 'erred' in his interpretation.
A judge can only make judgement on what he is presented with.

Why don't outline this conspiracy for us then? It's up to you to demonstrate it, not for anyone else posting on the thread to disprove you, you're the one making the assertion that the conspiracy exists.

And I've zero idea what the second part if your post is about ... do you have a link? Did the judge bend to political pressure?

tigger123

Happyman42 wrote: »

How do you know all this?





Hugely ironic that you would post this on the day that a man had his sentence overturned because a judge 'erred' in his interpretation.
A judge can only make judgement on what he is presented with.

Why don't outline this conspiracy for us then? It's up to you to demonstrate it, not for anyone else posting on the thread to disprove you, you're the one making the assertion that the conspiracy exists.

And I've zero idea what the second part if your post is about ... do you have a link? Did the judge bend to political pressure?

Blazer

handlemaster wrote: »

they sold the factory to Foxconn back in 2009

nope..never went through.
Dell still own that factory.

Happyman42

tigger123 wrote: »

Why don't outline this conspiracy for us then? It's up to you to demonstrate it, not for anyone else posting on the thread to disprove you, you're the one making the assertion that the conspiracy exists.

And I've zero idea what the second part if your post is about ... do you have a link? Did the judge bend to political pressure?

Read my posts, it's quite clear what i think is going on.

As to the judge....he made a mistake. The judiciary aren't infallible.

Brain Stroking

Happyman42 wrote: »

This man was not a criminal and he was not a typical capitalist either.

Absolute muck. For a man who wants to wait to see the facts, you sound like you have your mind made up

Happyman42

Brain Stroking wrote: »

Absolute muck. For a man who wants to wait to see the facts, you sound like you have your mind made up

You have evidence that he was engaged in criminality before the Anglo debacle? Source please?

And again, where is the crimminal charges against him for what happened at Anglo?

tigger123

Happyman42 wrote: »

Read my posts, it's quite clear what i think is going on.

As to the judge....he made a mistake. The judiciary aren't infallible.

I've read your posts and they're nowhere close to demonstrating a conspiracy.

And I never said the judiciary weren't fallible, I said they were independent, and won't be swayed by political pressure such as these rallies. Which again begs the question of what the rallies hope to achieve.

You're right about Quinn not being typical though, I'll give ya that.

Blazer

J Mysterio wrote: »

Dell did employ 3000 people here. These people made Dell. They ****ed off to Poland because they could pay their employees dirt there. Thankfully their operation has suffered as a result and they are now about to pull out again. Serves them flucking right.

It's called Capitalism. And you know who's to blame?
The normal shareholder. By demanding more and more profits businesses are forced to cut costs...and the easiest way to cut costs? Staff.
Even now companies are saying China's getting too expensive and Vietnam is the new place to go to.
After Vietnam gets too expensive it will be to South America/Africa.