Upcoming Irish property tax to cost 'on average' €1000 per house.(can you afford it?)

kr7

donalg1 wrote: »

How are you directly paying for water now? How is the SW recipient in the private rented house paying directly for water now?

Tell me too please how you suppose to not pay for water charges when they are introduced if everyone is not liable for them?

Have you heard of 'general taxation'?

Who do you think has been paying for water services all along?


There's plenty of ways and means of bypassing water meters!

Ghandee

lugha wrote: »

But this will also remove money from the economy? Kr7, and others, are arguing that this is a reason not to introduce a property tax?

Govt need to borrow, heavily at that, for SW and PS wages.

160m for the HHC is small change in comparison to these figures.

Why hit the homeowners before they tackle the bigger problem?
Horse and cart come to mind.

donalg1

kr7 wrote: »

Likewise services provided in these other countries.

Crux of the issue being that people need to pay for these services if they want to receive them. Whereas some here seem to think they should receive them first and then pay a small portion of the actual cost of providing these services.

donalg1

kr7 wrote: »

Have you heard of 'general taxation'?

Who do you think has been paying for water services all along?


There's plenty of ways and means of bypassing water meters!

Ha ha so you are now trying to say your taxes are directly paying for the amount of water you use? And you know this how? You said its fact so please elaborate on how you know this is fact.

Bypassing water meters you say, isnt that illegal, oh wait wouldnt bother you though. And what about when the LA realises that you arent paying for water even though you are clearly using it. This just keeps getting better.

kr7

donalg1 wrote: »

Crux of the issue being that people need to pay for these services if they want to receive them. Whereas some here seem to think they should receive them first and then pay a small portion of the actual cost of providing these services.

I'll ask you again, who do you has been paying for water services all along?

kr7

donalg1 wrote: »

Ha ha so you are now trying to say your taxes are directly paying for the amount of water you use? And you know this how? You said its fact so please elaborate on how you know this is fact.

Bypassing water meters you say, isnt that illegal, oh wait wouldnt bother you though. And what about when the LA realises that you arent paying for water even though you are clearly using it. This just keeps getting better.

I have a well at the end of my garden.

If you can't grasp the simple FACT that everyone in the country has been paying for water services since the formation of the state, there really is no hope for you.

kr7

Donal, where does the money that pays for water services come from?

A simple answer would do.

lugha

Ghandee wrote: »

Govt need to borrow, heavily at that, for SW and PS wages.

160m for the HHC is small change in comparison to these figures.

Why hit the homeowners before they tackle the bigger problem?
Horse and cart come to mind.

This has nothing to do with the point under discussion.

I have always accepted that cuts in public sector wages and social welfare, and deep ones, will be necessary. But these measures will also remove money from the economy. Thus, it is disingenuous to put this forward as an argument against taxation, the idea that money will be removed from the economy!

donalg1

kr7 wrote: »

I'll ask you again, who do you has been paying for water services all along?

The LA's are paying for water services at the minute KR7 and they get their funding from a number of sources so there is no way of knowing what section of their funding is paying for water services.

You are the one claiming its an absolute fact that every person in the state is paying for water services I simply asked you to show me how you came up with this and where your evidence to support this is. I await your links.

Oh and another thing if you have a private well at the end of your garden why would you need to bypass a meter? or have you just had it installed since you posted that 10minutes ago?

kr7

donalg1 wrote: »

The LA's are paying for water services at the minute KR7 and they get their funding from a number of sources so there is no way of knowing what section of their funding is paying for water services.

You are the one claiming its an absolute fact that every person in the state is paying for water services I simply asked you to show me how you came up with this and where your evidence to support this is. I await your links.

Oh dear God!

Where does the LA's get their funding from?

Will you just admit the simple FACT that taxpayers are paying for water services and then we can move on.

Alastair, laugha, someone, anyone, put this poster right.

kr7

donalg1 wrote: »

The LA's are paying for water services at the minute KR7 and they get their funding from a number of sources so there is no way of knowing what section of their funding is paying for water services.

You are the one claiming its an absolute fact that every person in the state is paying for water services I simply asked you to show me how you came up with this and where your evidence to support this is. I await your links.

Oh and another thing if you have a private well at the end of your garden why would you need to bypass a meter? or have you just had it installed since you posted that 10minutes ago?

Where did I say that I would need to, or would bypass a water meter?

donalg1

kr7 wrote: »

Oh dear God!

Where does the LA's get their funding from?

Will you just admit the simple FACT that taxpayers are paying for water services and then we can move on.

Alastair, laugha, someone, anyone, put this poster right.

I know where the LA's get their funding from, you however seem to think it comes from taxation only. I know this to be wrong. Some of the funding may come from taxation but I dont think there is anyway of knowing this. Even if we assume that it does, how do we know that the portion of LA funding received from general taxation actually goes to water services and not to some other function of the LA.

You are the one making these claims I have asked you to show me the proof that general taxation pays for water services. Thanks in advance. :rolleyes:

donalg1

kr7 wrote: »

Let's not be silly now donal, every taxpayer in the country is paying for water as we speak and has done since the formation of the state.

Funnily enough, I do think that we should be paying a charge for water and I will pay it if they can manage to bring one in that everyone will be liable for.

kr7 wrote: »

Have you heard of 'general taxation'?

Who do you think has been paying for water services all along?


There's plenty of ways and means of bypassing water meters!

kr7 wrote: »

Where did I say that I would need to, or would bypass a water meter?

See above please where you implied that you are liable. I asked you how you intend to avoid these if everyone is not liable for them and you responded by saying theres plenty of ways of bypassing water meters.

kr7

donalg1 wrote: »

I know where the LA's get their funding from, you however seem to think it comes from taxation only. I know this to be wrong. Some of the funding may come from taxation but I dont think there is anyway of knowing this. Even if we assume that it does, how do we know that the portion of LA funding received from general taxation actually goes to water services and not to some other function of the LA.

You are the one making these claims I have asked you to show me the proof that general taxation pays for water services. Thanks in advance. :rolleyes:

Jesus, you're a stubborn young lad aren't you?

If there is a problem with the water supply, it’s the responsibility of the local authorities to warn the public and take the necessary action to rectify the problem. Currently, the funding for maintaining and improving the water supply infrastructure (pipes, filtration and disinfection systems) comes from the national budget, through the Department of Environment, Community and Local Government.

Google it yourself and you'll see who currently pays for water services in Ireland.
We all do through general taxation.

Simple FACT's are denied, madness!

donalg1

kr7 wrote: »

Jesus, you're a stubborn young lad aren't you?

If there is a problem with the water supply, it’s the responsibility of the local authorities to warn the public and take the necessary action to rectify the problem. Currently, the funding for maintaining and improving the water supply infrastructure (pipes, filtration and disinfection systems) comes from the national budget, through the Department of Environment, Community and Local Government.

Google it yourself and you'll see who currently pays for water services in Ireland.
We all do through general taxation.

Simple FACT's are denied, madness!

No thanks you can provide me with a link showing me where my income tax and usc etc have directly funded the water services in my LA. Not a link saying they may have done so, but a link showing me that this is a stone wall fact beyond dispute. You claim it is so prove it, otherwise admit that you cant be sure that your taxes have directly paid for water services in your LA.

kr7

donalg1 wrote: »

No thanks you can provide me with a link showing me where my income tax and usc etc have directly funded the water services in my LA. Not a link saying they may have done so, but a link showing me that this is a stone wall fact beyond dispute. You claim it is so prove it, otherwise admit that you cant be sure that your taxes have directly paid for water services in your LA.

Stop digging Donal, even your fellow pro-taxers won't, nor can't back you up on this one.

donalg1

kr7 wrote: »

Stop digging Donal, even your fellow pro-taxers won't, nor can't back you up on this one.

I will take that as you admitting you are wrong then as you have again failed to provide me with any evidence that backs up your claims. Nice attempt at deflection though well done, unfortunately everyone will see right through it. I have asked you numerous times to prove it yet you cant, instead you respond with the above, have to say I am not at all surprised though as I knew your claims of it being fact were a load of rubbish.

kr7

donalg1 wrote: »

I will take that as you admitting you are wrong then as you have again failed to provide me with any evidence that backs up your claims. Nice attempt at deflection though well done, unfortunately everyone will see right through it. I have asked you numerous times to prove it yet you cant, instead you respond with the above, have to say I am not at all surprised though as I knew your claims of it being fact were a load of rubbish.

Your a gas young fella altogether. Gas!!!:D:D:D

Thanks for making me laugh. Needed that!

donalg1

kr7 wrote: »

Your a gas young fella altogether. Gas!!!:D:D:D

Thanks for making me laugh. Needed that!

Wow clever.

Why though are you refusing to answer the questions? It is after all in your best interests to answer them, otherwise anything you say in future cant be taken seriously.

I will give you some options:

1. Provide the proof to back up your claims

2. Admit you cant provide it because it doesnt exist

3. Say you were mistaken and we wont say any more about it

MonkieSocks

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/environment/water_services/water_supply.html

The efficient supply of water to homes and industry is the responsibility of the local authorities.
Funding for maintaining and improving the water supply infrastructure (pipes, filtration and disinfection systems) comes from the Department of Environment, Community and Local Government.

donalg1

MonkieSocks wrote: »

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/environment/water_services/water_supply.html

So KR7's taxes havent directly funded the cost of providing her with water then, thanks MonkieSocks.

bgrizzley

Guys, where do ye think the doe /lg gets money? The Euro fairy?

kr7

bgrizzley wrote: »

Guys, where do ye think the doe /lg gets money? The Euro fairy?

It's hard to believe them sometimes isn't it?

I think the pro-taxers just disagree for the sake of it and to stir things up.

There's a name for that and I thought it was against the forum charter.

You gotta laugh though!

donalg1

bgrizzley wrote: »

Guys, where do ye think the doe /lg gets money? The Euro fairy?

Not another one!!:rolleyes:

kr7

MonkieSocks wrote: »

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/environment/water_services/water_supply.html

MonkieSocks, do you agree that the taxpayer has always paid for the water supply through general taxation?

donalg1

kr7 wrote: »

It's hard to believe them sometimes isn't it?

I think the pro-taxers just disagree for the sake of it and to stir things up.

There's a name for that and I thought it was against the forum charter.

You gotta laugh though!

Ok KR this is the last I will say on the matter as I am sick of destroying you and your silly claims in relation to water charges (this is the second time i have done so of course).

Local Authorities get their funding from a number of different sources, the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government, are the governing body for LA's.

They allocate funding to the LA's, some of this funding may or may not be made up from some tax you have paid ( I have asked you to provide me with evidence to prove it is defintely made up of some tax you have paid, which you have so far avoided doing). Even on the off chance you could show me that your tax has directly gone towards funding your local authority, I dont think you could show me that this tax has paid for water services directly. You claim it has and that it is a fact and I have asked you to prove it, if you refuse to prove it I suggest you stop trying to debate water charges with me.

I am open to the possibility that this may have happened, just as much as I am open to the possibility that water services are paid for from one of the other sources of income that Local Authorities have you however are not open to this possibility because you know for a fact its wrong yet cant prove it. Why is that?

Provide me with the evidence please? I have asked for this numerous times.

awaits deflection or silly answer

gerryo777

donalg1 wrote: »

So KR7's taxes havent directly funded the cost of providing her with water then, thanks MonkieSocks.

Water services in Ireland are paid from central funds or 'general taxation' as someone said.
The county councils get their money from government, the government get their money from taxing the people.

Can't see which bit of that you don't understand.

It's very simple.

donalg1

gerryo777 wrote: »

Water services in Ireland are paid from central funds or 'general taxation' as someone said.
The county councils get their money from government, the government get their money from taxing the people.

Can't see which bit of that you don't understand.

It's very simple.

County Councils sole means of funding comes from the Government whose sole means of funding comes from general taxation. Is that so Gerry?

kr7

donalg1 wrote: »

Ok KR this is the last I will say on the matter as I am sick of destroying you and your silly claims in relation to water charges (this is the second time i have done so of course).

Local Authorities get their funding from a number of different sources, the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government, are the governing body for LA's.

They allocate funding to the LA's, some of this funding may or may not be made up from some tax you have paid ( I have asked you to provide me with evidence to prove it is defintely made up of some tax you have paid, which you have so far avoided doing). Even on the off chance you could show me that your tax has directly gone towards funding your local authority, I dont think you could show me that this tax has paid for water services directly. You claim it has and that it is a fact and I have asked you to prove it, if you refuse to prove it I suggest you stop trying to debate water charges with me.

I am open to the possibility that this may have happened, just as much as I am open to the possibility that water services are paid for from one of the other sources of income that Local Authorities have you however are not open to this possibility because you know for a fact its wrong yet cant prove it. Why is that?

Provide me with the evidence please? I have asked for this numerous times.

awaits deflection or silly answer

Oh ok, so now you want me to show you a paper trail where my personal taxes go after I've paid them to the revenue?

You are serious aren't you?

I don't see too many of your buddies backing you up on this, they can see you making a fool out of yourself.

You really should stop before your credibility is completely shot to pieces.

donalg1

kr7 wrote: »

Oh ok, so now you want me to show you a paper trail where my personal taxes go after I've paid them to the revenue?

You are serious aren't you?

I don't see too many of your buddies backing you up on this, they can see you making a fool out of yourself.

You really should stop before your credibility is completely shot to pieces.

I refer to the white text in the post you quoted from me.

You are the one that claimed the taxes you paid go directly to funding the water services you receive, you said this was fact I only asked you how you could possibly know this. So you seem to already have access to the paper trail.

You want to talk about my credibility yet you are the one that is unable to back up what you say with facts. You basically just make this stuff up dont you. Me thinks your credibility was shot to pieces long and ever ago.