The Dark Knight Rises - seen thread *SPOILERS WITHIN* See Mod Warning in first post

Bullseye1

TDKR - Nice ending to the trilogy. But too many plot holes to bring home top marks. Plus the ending was very sentimental. And the final battle did not live up to the hype of the reviews I've read. Nothwithstanding those minor complaints I still give it 8/10. Going again on Sunday. Maybe those plot holes won't be so noticeable second time round. Minor pick on the score. It was essentially the same two or three pieces of music through the entire movie.

I guess the singing of the national anthem in the stadium and the tattered American flags would upset some. Not me however. I think I still prefer BB and TDK.

Jaafa

Excellent film, a lot of minor things that annoyed me, but I'm more than willing to overlook them considering the quality of the rest of the film.

I really liked Bane in this. I felt he made top notch villain, always seemed one step ahead of Batman and the police, with a nice back-story, which was short but quite effective.

The only thing that really did annoy me, was how unceremoniously Bane's 'death' was dealt with. If they intended it to be clear he was dead then for obvious reasons they did not achieve this. If they intended for him to return in another film then, I think having him shot with a pair of cannons, which just a few minutes previous had blown a massive hole in pile of cars 12ft high, was probably not the best option.

Overall that was the only major thing in the film I felt could haven been done a lot better, they rest I can live with.

Corholio

leggo wrote: »

I don't mean to be the guy who ruins it, but I'd put money on something close to this exact conversation happening during the production of the movie.

"Ooh, nice ending! But does Alfred know he's alive when he goes there or is that where he learns it?"
"Ah we'll just leave it as one of those things."
"Oh. Right so."

Same as The Sopranos. There is no right or wrong answer, it's left for each individual to decide for themselves.

I slightly disagree. I think the whole mentioning of the auto pilot throughout the movie kinda leans towards a definitive answer.

leggo

tony1kenobi wrote: »

Fox,Kyle and Blake all know Bruce faked his death.Why would he not have let his oldest friend Alfred know?I don't think there was any ambiguity whatsoever.

Having said that I don't think the Sopranos ending was ambiguous either.

Exactly, but I guarantee that someone else out there is convinced of the exact opposite theory. And, considering neither of you will have written it, neither of you can be conclusively right or wrong.

That's not a bad thing, though, that's why these endings exist. It's good that you feel that kind of kinship with the movie that you're convinced YOUR way has to be the right way and will go to endless lengths to argue as much.

I'm just saying that, if they wanted you to know for sure, they would've told you. You're not meant to know and likely never will. That's what makes endings like this great.

tony1kenobi

leggo wrote: »

tony1kenobi wrote: »

Fox,Kyle and Blake all know Bruce faked his death.Why would he not have let his oldest friend Alfred know?I don't think there was any ambiguity whatsoever.

Having said that I don't think the Sopranos ending was ambiguous either.

Exactly, but I guarantee that someone else out there is convinced of the exact opposite theory. And, considering neither of you will have written it, neither of you can be conclusively right or wrong.

That's not a bad thing, though, that's why these endings exist. It's good that you feel that kind of kinship with the movie that you're convinced YOUR way has to be the right way and will go to endless lengths to argue as much.

I'm just saying that, if they wanted you to know for sure, they would've told you. You're not meant to know and likely never will. That's what makes endings like this great.

I understand your point.I just don't think there is an argument regarding the end of this film.It is spelled out very clearly.The Sopranos not so clearly,but anyone with a clue knows that dude came out of the bog and smoked Tony.

leggo

See I'd go for that theory on Sopranos too. But, like I said, I'd put money on there being no actual answer. The writers left it there deliberately to be open to interpretation. They probably couldn't tell you themselves if they wanted to, or would simply give their own opinion but not say conclusively because there simply is no answer.

If they'd have wanted it to be clear, Alfred would've given him a knowing, reassured smile. And vice versa, if he hadn't known then he would've jumped. As it was, he looked kind of shocked but also didn't overreact. That, in fact, was how he said he'd act if he saw him by surprise when Bruce was MIA before BB. So you could say that's conclusive in itself. Then again there's a perfectly logical theory that completely contradicts that. Or did the encounter even happen? Was it an Inception-style ending? Was it just Alfred's daydream of what could have been?

See what I mean? There's no definitive answer, and it makes it better IMO.

rickfox

Alfred was dreaming????

I do not think so

At the end of the movie you will notice Selina wearing pearl necklace (she and Bruce were sitting in that cafe on the bank of Arno river near Florence)

and which item go missing when the man(Lawyer?) who carries out Bruce's will starting check item list with that reception lady?

tony1kenobi

leggo wrote: »

See I'd go for that theory on Sopranos too. But, like I said, I'd put money on there being no actual answer. The writers left it there deliberately to be open to interpretation. They probably couldn't tell you themselves if they wanted to, or would simply give their own opinion but not say conclusively because there simply is no answer.

If they'd have wanted it to be clear, Alfred would've given him a knowing, reassured smile. And vice versa, if he hadn't known then he would've jumped. As it was, he looked kind of shocked but also didn't overreact. That, in fact, was how he said he'd act if he saw him by surprise when Bruce was MIA before BB. So you could say that's conclusive in itself. Then again there's a perfectly logical theory that completely contradicts that. Or did the encounter even happen? Was it an Inception-style ending? Was it just Alfred's daydream of what could have been?

See what I mean? There's no definitive answer, and it makes it better IMO.

I don't see what you mean because Alfred and Bruce DID exchange an all knowing smile.The only thing Caine didn't do was nod to the camera.I only saw it once but I don't feel anything was left to chance.

Turtyturd

niallon wrote: »

Also, how the f**king f**k did Bruce get back to Gotham from the pit? One bridge in and its being watched both sides.

Girlfriend asked the same question after seeing it, so I will give you the same response I gave her 'because he is f*cking Batman.':pac:

leggo wrote: »

If they'd have wanted it to be clear, Alfred would've given him a knowing, reassured smile. And vice versa, if he hadn't known then he would've jumped. As it was, he looked kind of shocked but also didn't overreact. That, in fact, was how he said he'd act if he saw him by surprise when Bruce was MIA before BB. So you could say that's conclusive in itself. Then again there's a perfectly logical theory that completely contradicts that. Or did the encounter even happen? Was it an Inception-style ending? Was it just Alfred's daydream of what could have been?

See what I mean? There's no definitive answer, and it makes it better IMO.

That's what sealed that the ending was real for me, Alfred reacted exactly how he said he would, add that to the other evidence such as the auto pilot being active and the necklace being missing and it is pretty definite he survived.

BlitzKrieg

I was incredibly disapointed with this. I found the script painful, found it incredibly predictable (and I stopped following the batman thread over a year ago) and it's pace was glacial. Bane was a poor villain who spent too much time giving speeches and not enough time taking action. The action set pieces felt small. Really a lot of basic things just didnt work.

Very surprised and very disapointed.

Ape X

^Any relation to Lucius, rick?

My own interpretation is that the ending was real, and while Alfred's reaction may have been unnatural in reality, it plays out exactly as he says he imagined it would all those times - no other acknowledgement other than a nod and a smile.

Also, can anyone with a clearer memory of the ending remind me, did the scene in Florence play out uninterrupted, or was it intersected with the other elements of the ending eg Blake's entrance into the bat cave? If it was the latter, I'd be surprised it was meant to be seen as a dream/imagining at all.

BlitzKrieg

Also, can anyone with a clearer memory of the ending remind me, did the scene in Florence play out uninterrupted, or was it intersected with the other elements of the ending eg Blake's entrance into the bat cave? If it was the latter, I'd be surprised it was meant to be seen as a dream/imagining at all.

it's intersected as the last shot of the film is the nice track in with the platform rising. I think there is a cut between alfred being shown his seat back to gotham and then back to a medium close up of alfred as he see's Bruce, reverse shot and then the platform rising

Ape X

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

it's intersected as the last shot of the film is the nice track in with the platform rising. I think there is a cut between alfred being shown his seat back to gotham and then back to a medium close up of alfred as he see's Bruce, reverse shot and then the platform rising

Thanks, that's what I thought... Personally I wouldn't view some elements of a montage being real, with others being "dreamt".

Bullseye1

I enjoyed the Scarecrows rendition of the French Revolution. All they were missing was the guillotine.

I agree that the Bane character was in ways disappointing. The actor in fairness tried his best having to wear that mask. At times I found it hard to hear what he was saying.

The Miranda Tate and Bane relationship was also nothing original. It was almost identical to the Elektra Kane and Renard in The World is not Enough.

And the final battle scene which was essentially a huge punch up was nothing special. It just looked like they ran out of steam and ideas there.

BlitzKrieg

It's not a dream (I havnt read this thread fully yet) Fox points out that the autopilot had been fixed on the *bat* during the same montage, also Bruce happens to leave the batcave to the cop he met during his last case?

irishgeo

it cant be a dream is everyone forgetting that the lawyers doing the will said the pearl necklace was missing, the last person to have them was bruce and he surely gave them to catwoman. was she wearing them at the end?

BlitzKrieg

irishgeo wrote: »

it cant be a dream is everyone forgetting that the lawyers doing the will said the pearl necklace was missing, the last person to have them was bruce and he surely gave them to catwoman. was she wearing them at the end?

yes

Thefirestarter

Now all we have to wait for is the Directors Cut version on Blu-Ray

Ape X

Thefirestarter wrote: »

Now all we have to wait for is the Directors Cut version on Blu-Ray

At the end of which, we find out that the entire trilogy was Bruce's hallucination caused by those Himalayan blue flowers :pac:

Bullseye1

I doubt there will be a different cut. This is surely Nolans cut.

Sad Professor

Yeah the theatrical cut is the director's cut. Nolan doesn't do extended cuts.

Liamario

Anyone who thinks Alfred was only dreaming about Bruce being there is talking out of their arses. I'm not going to go into why that is, because it is blatently obvious why you are wrong.
I hate when people come out with these ridiculous baseless theories!

fruvai

I was disappointed that Bane's voice in the prologue was changed. Although it could be heard clearly, it wasn't as dynamic or interesting as the original one

TrailerBob

Cracking film, great ending to the trilogy. Had not read anything intentionally before seeing it, but the whole Blake - Robin thing jumped at me early on. Not complaining though.

Like others hav said, the 3 films have to be taken together, I think it's unfair to compare them. I do have some nerdy - engineering niggles, mainly the laterally rotating wheels on the Bike.. But the whole package was class in my opinion.

Worth the wait, and I think critics of the plot are off the mark, there was great tension in it all through, and some interesting twists, and Bane's quick 'death' kinda fits in with the revelation that he's not actually calling the shots, he's a henchman- albeit a powerful one entrusted with a major task.

9.9/10

tok9

Absolutely loved it. My god I went through so many emotions in that last 10 minutes!

The brain is fried so I don't think I can write much else right now, everything was perfect for me.

Otacon

Liam O wrote: »

One thing actually, where'd the money come from for Bruce's jetsetting?

Too tired to post my full thoughts but I think that was explained by the fact that they couldn't find the necklace. My guess is he sold it to start a new life.

Thought it was excellent. Although why was Batman still putting on the voice while talking to cat woman near the end when she knew who he was

tony1kenobi

KaG wrote: »

Thought it was excellent. Although why was Batman still putting on the voice while talking to cat woman near the end when she knew who he was

Because the cowl was still constricting his nose and throat same as any other time.He didn't put on the growly voice talking to Gordon in the hospital.

Boo Radley

Regarding how Bruce could afford to move away and start a new life... he absconded with a master thief who should have had a few quid squirreled away.

Thefirestarter

Bullseye1 wrote: »

I doubt there will be a different cut. This is surely Nolans cut.

Sad Professor wrote: »

Yeah the theatrical cut is the director's cut. Nolan doesn't do extended cuts.

I'm just thinking that perhaps he didn't have as much lee way or say when it came to the final cut, I'd say (I know it's used a lot but) studio execs had some say in regards to leaving viewers in the dark over certain elements.

This is the end of a hugely successful trilogy, an end to the greatest superhero based trilogy known to cinema that I would say Warner Bro had no idea would become this massive. It's Nolans baby, but I think it would be naive to say somebody didn't say "Do this, change that, keep that" when it was first shown to the execs.