The Dark Knight Rises - seen thread *SPOILERS WITHIN* See Mod Warning in first post

johnny_ultimate

smcgiff wrote: »

Also, would have preferred it if the movie ended on

Alfred's nod

. However, I say studio execs had their way and it was s-p-e-l-l-e-d o-u-t

I think it actually ended on the perfect note. A new Dark Knight rises. Literally. As apt a final note as they could end on. It had been spelled out before that, of course, but it was the perfect visual indicator to cut to black IMO.

Dohnny Jepp

Possibly the best super hero movie ever. Before I seen the movie I was glad it was the last one. . . .but dammit I want another one now!!

OwaynOTT

Dohnny Jepp wrote: »

Possibly the best super hero movie ever. Before I seen the movie I was glad it was the last one. . . .but dammit I want another one now!!

aH Here, surely that's reserved for Daredevil(not the directors cut either).

ricero

absolutely amazing i loved it from start to finish. i though the pacing was spot on and for a near 3 hour film it flew by. Bale was outstanding more as bruce wayne than as batman i felt. Hardy i thought was also great but i thought his death was a bit of a anti-climax. the flashback scenes were very well done and i thought the ending scenes were very good although i would of rather seen alfred just smile and not reveal bruce and selina although i think he had to put that in to show bruce was happy in love with selina.

overall an outstanding film and the best super hero movie ever i hope nolan receives an oscar not just for this film but for the trilogy as a whole.

i knew robin would be in it

James Forde

Anne Hathaway absolutely blew me away as Selina Kyle - Now in saying that I didn't have high hopes for her character.

But just WOW

ricero

James Forde wrote: »

Anne Hathaway absolutely blew me away as Selina Kyle - Now in saying that I didn't have high hopes for her character.

But just WOW

yea forgot to mention that in my own post she was amazing. she dominated the screen and i rank her ahead of even michelle pfeiffer as a better catwoman

JayRoc

Just saw it an hour ago so haven't completely formed my opinions yet, still digesting it so to speak.

It was certainly very enjoyable, and, while long (probably a bit longer than strictly necessary) I didn't find myself checking my watch, really the time flew.

The major negatives for me, were, firstly, Bane's mask- really it wasn't necessary other than to satisfy fanboys, the vast majority of the audience wouldn't have read the comics or been familiar enough with the character to notice it wasn't there. His need for it was never convincingly explained (how exactly did it help him, what exactly did it do?), and added to the muffled dialogue it produced and how hard it must have been to act in, I thought it was a bit silly. Too Darth Vader-esque.

And the ending was a bit of a cop-out. Michael Caine's scene at the graveside was wonderful, very moving, and it would have been a brave thing for the studio to do to just leave it at that, rather than the classic American sewn-up happy ending.


All in all, I'd probably put it on a par with Batman Begins- a lot of plot holes and inconsistencies, but fun.
Not a patch on the Dark Knight though.

Handsome Bob

JayRoc, it was established that Bane got beaten badly by assisting Talia in escaping the pit. The doctor in the pit then botched his efforts in healing bane, hence the need for the mask.

Re: the time, I agree with y'all, it flew by. I'm a bit perplexed by that criticism from the critics.

EDIT You have to take a leap and assume the mask is pumping some sort of painkiller.

James Forde

Handsome Bob wrote: »

JayRoc, it was established that Bane got beaten badly by assisting Talia in escaping the pit. The doctor in the pit then botched his efforts in healing bane, hence the need for the mask.

Re: the time, I agree with y'all, it flew by. I'm a bit perplexed by that criticism from the critics.

I don't necessarily understand it, but as a workmate said earlier to me:

"There's always a few who will hate/criticise just to be different"

OwaynOTT

I agree with him. The mask wasn't suitable explained, my partner asked me what it was about. You should be able to glean stuff like that from the movie.
Is it holding his teeth in place, some kind of cutting edge braces?

James Forde

OwaynOTT wrote: »

I agree with him. The mask wasn't suitable explained, my partner asked me what it was about. You should be able to glean stuff like that from the movie.
Is it holding his teeth in place, some kind of cutting edge braces?

"the mask keeps the pain in"

I believe was the quote, if you can't interpret that into something other than dental work then you need to be seriously spoon fed a film to understand it.

Does every detail have to be explained in depth?

johnny_ultimate

Generally surprised the mask stuff left people confused. Didn't necessarily think it even needed an explanation myself, but ended up with a fairly definitive one.

Sideshow Mark

Liked it, thought the pacing was better than Dark Knight, which felt too long. No performance stood out the way The Joker did in the last one, and the film was better for it. I thought everything was explained quite well which is surprising for a Chris Nolan film. I'll need to see it a few more times, but my first reaction was that it was more consistent than Dark Knight, far better than Amazing Spider-Man, but still not as good as The Avengers.

Turtyturd

OwaynOTT wrote: »

I agree with him. The mask wasn't suitable explained, my partner asked me what it was about. You should be able to glean stuff like that from the movie.
Is it holding his teeth in place, some kind of cutting edge braces?

It is made blatantly obvious that when the mask is disconnected he is in considerable pain though. And when Batman disconnects it Bane flies into a rage.

Handsome Bob

I mean the incident that injured bane is clearly outlined, so is the aftermath i.e. The doc botching his work. It's just a case of filling in the dots.

Anyway, it was an interesting twist on Bane. Instead of being closer to Bruce's age, he must be closer to Ra's'.

ronoc 1

i loved the the two fights between bane and batman.one thing that bugged me about the other two films is that batman never really had a badass fight scene but here they delievered it very well.I also liked how they rounded off the film with batman begins with the likes of ras al gul and the flashback to when wayne was a child.one thing about the ending that annoyed me is how he surived that explosion with literally seconds to go,i know im nitpicking but it seemed too far fetched even for a batman movie.

Bit surprised at the negative reaction by some critics,i dont think it was perfect but i thought it was a very good movie to end a triolgy.one other thing i loved about it was batmans costume,i thought it was risky to show it in daylight but it looked excellent.Is it the same costume from the the dark knight becuse it looks slightly different.

leggit

Just back from the cinema now so still digesting but was an excellent watch for the most part. Must have been a hell of a lot of pressure on Nolan to finish of this trilogy after TDK and this was a mighty fine effort.

Right now, TDK is still my favourite of the 3 purely because the Joker is Batmans main enemy and always will be but Bane was good (even if he was hard to make out at times)

Massive cringe factor with the reveal of Blake's real name bring Robin.......

Have to agree with other posters that film should have ended with Alfred's smile and nod

Handsome Bob

Yeah, by far the best fight scenes easily in the franchise. I'd go even further and say they're amongst the most dramatic scenes in the franchise, amazing acting from Hardy and Bale.

Another thing I've noticed only now: when Bane read Gordon's speech, oh man. I never even thought about how hard it'd be to praise a man who pretty much was hellbent on putting a bullet in your son's head, while condemning the man who saved your son. Amazing.

SimonTemplar

Just back from seeing it twice in a row at Cineworld. I left my house this morning at 7:00 to make it into town for some breakfast and then to the 9:10 screening at Cineworld (which ended up being a 10:20 screening due to technical problems). I really don't think I've ever been so excited about a movie before. Honestly, this morning I felt the same level of excitement I felt when I went abroad for the first time.

Anyway, I think due to the MASSIVE hype, I ended up being slightly disappointed. I would place BB and TDK above this movie, but I would still give it 5 stars. I had sweaty palms for the entire last hour - always a good sign of emotional engagement. A few points:

- I really don't agree with the 'weak villian' assessment of the early reviews. Any villian following Joker is going to seem weak in comparision, but I think he had massive screen presence and a complete badass. I found his first encounter with Batman in his lair really painful to watch from an emotional point of view, but excellent filmmaking. Batman was giving his all but was bearly making a dent in Bane. I really felt for him when he let out a roar of utter frustration in the middle of the fight.

- Anne Hathaway did a fine job as Selina Kyle. She is a completely different take on Catwoman than Pfiffer/Burton's, but I enjoyed her performance. It did take some time to get used to Batman teaming up with her. He has always been a lone wolf in Nolan's world (with the occasional assistance from Gordon but never any other costumed characters). The image of Batman and Catwoman walking down the dark tunnel before meeing Bane was a little surreal for Nolan's universe (but I'm not complaining)

- Regarding the final battle, I liked how Bruce decided to kill off Batman. It seemed fitting. However, as emotional as the ending was, I would have liked Batman to have been more "active" in his final moments. I mean in the endings of BB and TDK, Batman always had a physical or verbal battle to win. In BB, he had to fight Raz Al Gul. In TDK, he had to take out a swat team, beat the Joker and then try to convince Dent not to kill Gordon's son. In comparision, once Bane is dead, Batman spends the rest of the movie pushing buttons in the cabin of The Bat. OK he had to fight Bane first, but that wasn't the ending. In countless movies we have seen characters sitting in a fighter plane and I feel Nolan could have made Batman's last actions more eventful instead of just sitting in The Bat pushing buttons. Such an action scene is fine for a mid-movie thrill (like the chase in BB) but I felt he needed to be more active while still retaining the emotion of his sacrifice. Perhaps it wasn't helped by the tinking time bomb plot device, which again seemed a little cliched and substandard for Nolan. This is probably my biggest complaint overall, but it is still a fairly minor one and doesn't detract from the quality of the film as a whole.

- I agree with a previous poster that the image of Batman, Catwoman and Gordon watching Tate die was a little strange. Also, did anyone else think her acting was a little off in that scene, especially when she died. She closed her eyes and moved her neck much too quickly. That entire scene is a rare example of bad direction from Nolan (perhaps he was getting tired with the franchise by that stage?).

- Finally, about Alfred meeting with Bruce at the cafe. If you look at the expression on his face when he sees Bruce, it is one of recognition, not a look of shock at seeing Bruce 'back from the dead'. He was absolutely distraught at Bruce's grave. If he had only discovered Bruce was alive at the cafe, his reaction would have been much more powerful. For me, Caine's performance in that scene (and Nolan's direction) suggests that Bruce had already informed Alfred that he was alive prior to meeting in the cafe, and that they had arranged to meet in Florence. Alfred's expression is more "ah there he is, finally happy at last" as opposed to "OH MY GOD, Bruce is alive!!?!". If you see the movie again, keep an eye out for his expression to see what I mean.

Anyway, a great movie overall and one of the finest trilogies of all time (along with LOTR and Toy Story). The Avengers still beats it for sheer entertainment and enjoyment though, although TDKR is clearly a more intelligent film.

Handsome Bob

I don't really want to get into it but TDKR beats TA on every level. The acting, the action (you can dazzle all you want, but nothing can beat that heart thumping first fight between Bane and Bruce, the action actually meant something) and the pay off for the characters. This film will live long in my memory, the candyfloss that is TA won't.

Hell, TASM was even better than TA.

Liam O

SimonTemplar wrote: »

- Finally, about Alfred meeting with Bruce at the cafe. If you look at the expression on his face when he sees Bruce, it is one of recognition, not a look of shock at seeing Bruce 'back from the dead'. He was absolutely distraught at Bruce's grave. If he had only discovered Bruce was alive at the cafe, his reaction would have been much more powerful. For me, Caine's performance in that scene (and Nolan's direction) suggests that Bruce had already informed Alfred that he was alive prior to meeting in the cafe, and that they had arranged to meet in Florence. Alfred's expression is more "ah there he is, finally happy at last" as opposed to "OH MY GOD, Bruce is alive!!?!". If you see the movie again, keep an eye out for his expression to see what I mean

or it could be in relation to the conversation him and Bruce had in the mansion before Alfred left? In fact it almost definitely is...

johnny_ultimate

Yeah even on a pure entertainment level TDKR provides greater thrills and spectacle than The Avengers IMO. It's not necessarily comparing like to like, that's true. But taking all this year's blockbusters together, TDKR ****s all over the lot of 'em.

SimonTemplar

Handsome Bob wrote: »

I don't really want to get into it but TDKR beats TA on every level. The acting, the action (you can dazzle all you want, but nothing can beat that heart thumping first fight between Bane and Bruce, the action actually meant something) and the pay off for the characters. This film will live long in my memory, the candyfloss that is TA won't.

You're right - no point getting into that debate either. But you're kinda right about your candyfloss metephor. They may be both superhero movies, but they are existing to serve two different purposes. Batman is for emotional investment, whereas TA is a "dessert" movie with little substance. Both can be enjoyed equally for what they are. I give both movies 5 stars but for entirely different reasons.

BTW...I don't want to get into an Avengers debate in TDKR forum, so let's agree to disagree

SimonTemplar

Liam O wrote: »

or it could be in relation to the conversation him and Bruce had in the mansion before Alfred left? In fact it almost definitely is...

Yes that conversation was the first strand of the Florence subplot, but it doesn't explain Alfred's unshocked reaction to seeing Bruce or indeed Bruce's reaction back to Alfred.

The conversation in the mansion you mentioned didn't end with Bruce saying "oh by the way, I'm going to fake my death. Let's meet up in that cafe when the dust has settled".

Ape X

The camera only lingers on Alfred for a second, but I thought I saw relief on his face.

Liam O

SimonTemplar wrote: »

Yes that conversation was the first strand of the Florence subplot, but it doesn't explain Alfred's unshocked reaction to seeing Bruce or indeed Bruce's reaction back to Alfred.

The conversation in the mansion you mentioned didn't end with Bruce saying "oh by the way, I'm going to fake my death. Let's meet up in that cafe when the dust has settled".

But it did say that Alfred goes to Florence every year at the same time. Not a reach that Bruce would be there...

One thing actually, where'd the money come from for Bruce's jetsetting?

johnny_ultimate

SimonTemplar wrote: »

Yes that conversation was the first strand of the Florence subplot, but it doesn't explain Alfred's unshocked reaction to seeing Bruce or indeed Bruce's reaction back to Alfred.

It really does. You can safely assume Alfred started putting the pieces together, and with back with the vague hope of finding Bruce. As for Bruce himself, well you have to remember this was all part of a masterplan. He couldn't have forseen everything that happened, but he had everything prepared for the plan to play out and for him to 'retire with style'. It reminded me of the end of The Dark Knight Returns,

where Wayne had devised an elaborate plan to defeat Superman by developing Kyrtonite over a long period of time, because he knew the day would come eventually when they had to fight

. It's up to anyone's individual interpretation how much of the consequences Wayne had planned or foresaw in advance (he seemed to express genuine shock at the Talia reveal), but he certainly had planned ahead in several important regards. His journey was about passing the baton, to give Gotham the hero it deserved. While he got to go off and sip wine with Selina Kyle in Florence.

OwaynOTT

Hey guys. After watching batman begins at 11.10pm and then the new one starting at 5.00am, surely you could cut me some slack due to pure tiredness.
Maybe I didn't explain accurately what I meant in my post and yes it was fairly easy to grasp he was in pain when Batman disconnected his mask and the doctor messed up his treatment.
What I mean to say is that it isn't obvious exactly how the mask keeps the pain at bay. When it's disconnected there doesn't appear to be any leakage of materials.
It obvious what it prevents but not how or what it does.
Anyway that's only a minor, insignificant even, niggle I had and wouldn't even of mentioned it if not for someone else bringing it up.
One of the replies was a bit much as well.

War Machine 539

Joeyjoejoe83 wrote: »

Not using spoiler tags so beware!!



I also feel the joker would have made a way better judge that the scarecrow, what might have been....

Agreed. First thing I thought of when I seen Crane. The juxtaposition would have been far more effective.

AthAnRi

I put so much time and effort into this movie that I feel I over did it. Part of me is saying that it was a good movie but I just didn't get the wow factor that I got from TDK and especially from BB.

For me my favorite was BB. IT was immense. TDK was also excellent and Ledgers joker will never be topped only equaled and copied.

I totally agree on what SimonTemplar says regarding the last battle. It lacked something.

I also found Bane to be the weakest part of the movie, this is probably due again to the Joker and ledgers performance in TDK. I'm not sure Tom Hardy is a great actor. I saw Bronson and he was excellent but in Inception again I thought he was poor.

I will say this for it though. It sent shivers down my spine when Batman said anyone can be a hero to Jim Gordon. Don't know why but maybe it was because it was a reference to BB.

I thought Ann Hathaway was excellent. The way she walks even hubba hubba

Overall I think I overdid it building myself up for this movie. I still consider it a good movie and one of the best I've seen this year, which wouldn't be hard in fairness. For me its BB closely followed by TDK and a bit behind is TDKR. Still one of the best Trilogies out there. Will be interesting to see if they continue with "Robin".