The Dark Knight Rises - seen thread *SPOILERS WITHIN* See Mod Warning in first post

ronoc 1

One thing ive just realised is that the mayor has about one minute screen time before he is killed.Its interesting because the actor who played him was being interviewed about the movie and the way he was talking it was like he had a much bigger part in the film.I wonder was there scenes cut from the film.Same goes for selina kyles friend, we never got to know anything about her.

Turtyturd

SimonTemplar wrote: »

Yes that conversation was the first strand of the Florence subplot, but it doesn't explain Alfred's unshocked reaction to seeing Bruce or indeed Bruce's reaction back to Alfred.

The conversation in the mansion you mentioned didn't end with Bruce saying "oh by the way, I'm going to fake my death. Let's meet up in that cafe when the dust has settled".

Chances are Alfred would have been in contact with Fox so would have known there was at least a possibility Bruce survived. Another hint he would have had would be that the necklace was missing.

SimonTemplar

Liam O wrote: »

But it did say that Alfred goes to Florence every year at the same time. Not a reach that Bruce would be there...

One thing actually, where'd the money come from for Bruce's jetsetting?

I think Alfred said that he only went to Florence during the years Bruce was away from Gotham, i.e. the start of BB. If he had been going to Florence every year (even when Bruce was back in Gotham) surely Alfred would have mentioned his *current* holiday plans to Bruce. I mean, even my manager knows where I go for holidays.

Regarding the money, Fox mentioned to Bruce that in the long term they may be able to prove fraud. My guess is that Fox and Wayne Enterprises managed to undo some of the damage that Bain's program did with the company's stocks and he deposited funds into Bruce's account (he did know he was alive out there somewhere). That's just my theory.

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

It really does. You can safely assume Alfred started putting the pieces together, and with back with the vague hope of finding Bruce. As for Bruce himself, well you have to remember this was all part of a masterplan. He couldn't have forseen everything that happened, but he had everything prepared for the plan to play out and for him to 'retire with style'. It reminded me of the end of The Dark Knight Returns,

where Wayne had devised an elaborate plan to defeat Superman by developing Kyrtonite over a long period of time, because he knew the day would come eventually when they had to fight

. It's up to anyone's individual interpretation how much of the consequences Wayne had planned or foresaw in advance (he seemed to express genuine shock at the Talia reveal), but he certainly had planned ahead in several important regards. His journey was about passing the baton, to give Gotham the hero it deserved. While he got to go off and sip wine with Selina Kyle in Florence.

Again, your theory is based on the fact that Alfred doesn't know Bruce is alive when he goes to that Cafe. I think his reaction would have been more emotional if his weeks/months of putting the pieces together paid of and his friend is alive. Of course, there is no concrete evidence to support either your theory or mine - just speculation.

Ape X wrote: »

The camera only lingers on Alfred for a second, but I thought I saw relief on his face.

Exactly, relief that Bruce is finally happy and free of his demons. It is not an expression of suddenly discovering that your loved one is actually not dead.

SimonTemplar

Turtyturd wrote: »

Chances are Alfred would have been in contact with Fox so would have known there was at least a possibility Bruce survived. Another hint he would have had would be that the necklace was missing.

Oh I like that theory too! But I still think Alfred knew for certain he was alive before visiting the Cafe. I mean what are the chances that Bruce and Selina would be at the Cafe at the exact time Alfred (who has travelled across the world) would be at the same Cafe also.

JayRoc

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Generally surprised the mask stuff left people confused. Didn't necessarily think it even needed an explanation myself, but ended up with a fairly definitive one.

I wasn't confused, as said they gave an "explanation", but it was meaningless.
Do masks like that exist? Along with the "bat" that was a bit too close to science-fiction for me, it just seemed silly and out of place in a series that aims for relatively gritty realism, albeit while having a vigilante dress up as a bat...

They could've just given him a balaclava or something.
Anyway, it's not really important.


Oh, and I meant to say earlier, I thought the idea of Bane and his gang attempting to sow social discord by giving the power to "the people" throughout gotham the way they did was actually pretty original. Some of the scenes almost reminded me of the Russian revolution as depicted in Dr. Zhivago. Maybe it's just me!

losthorizon

Kind of relevant to the discussion


http://www.tor.com/blogs/2012/07/this-is-how-you-paint-a-150-foot-tall-batman

Handsome Bob

JayRoc, are you seriouly gonna complain about a lack of realism within a franchise that has a chap walking round with half his face burnt off without a boher.

Smartly Dressed

Random thoughts:

Bane's voice was poor and it was a bad decision on Nolan's part but other than that the character was excellent; ferocious, cold, intelligent and deeply motivated.

I thought the opening sequence was pretty poorly done. I felt it was difficult to understand what was happening and in terms of the overall narrative, it seemed a bit uneccessary. I guess Nolan wanted to give Bane an impressive entrance but between the editing, pace, sound effects and Bane's voice, I could barely make out what was happening.

I thought it was genuinely frightening when Bane first fought Batman and broke him, especially when he started smashing the cowl in.

I thought the prison scenes were excellent - it reminded Bruce who Batman really was and what he stood for.

''Light it up.''

Handsome Bob

The opening sting from Bane is no different from Joker's bank robbery.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

How did Bane find Gordon's speech?

Smartly Dressed

I'm pretty sure it fell out when Gordon was in the underground HQ and he escaped.

Turtyturd

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

How did Bane find Gordon's speech?

It was taken from him when he was captured in the sewers....or fell as he escaped.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Thanks, didn't think of that!

Liam O

They made a big point of searching him and when Bane sees the speech his eyes light up and you can see that he sees he's onto something big there.

JayRoc

Handsome Bob wrote: »

JayRoc, are you seriouly gonna complain about a lack of realism within a franchise that has a chap walking round with half his face burnt off without a boher.

No, I thought I was being clearly tongue-in-cheek. It's a comic-book movie about a man dressed as a bat.

But there are levels, and stuff like magic pain-relief masks and flying cars are a level beyond what I'd come to expect from this particular trilogy.

But it's no biggie, I didn't give that stuff too much thought while I was watching it, generally I was engrossed which is what I go to the pictures for, at the end of the day.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Liam O wrote: »

They made a big point of searching him and when Bane sees the speech his eyes light up and you can see that he sees he's onto something big there.

There was so much going on I'd actually forgotten that scene by the time the speech came. Makes perfect sense now.

Liam O

I felt Bane was far more menacing than the Joker tbh. Critics and fans have lambasted him for not having the dark humour that the Joker did but I felt that made him out to be less of a threat. From the start you get the feeling that Bane is a match for Batman in every sense and physically superior. Now the Joker is obviously a more entertaining character and that is why we go to the movies but Bane was an intense villain and there is a feeling that he'll be the end of Batman and Wayne.

I did feel they could have had someone do a stand in Joker for the courtroom scenes though...

Shred

Liam O wrote: »

I felt Bane was far more menacing than the Joker tbh. Critics and fans have lambasted him for not having the dark humour that the Joker did but I felt that made him out to be less of a threat. From the start you get the feeling that Bane is a match for Batman in every sense and physically superior. Now the Joker is obviously a more entertaining character and that is why we go to the movies but Bane was an intense villain and there is a feeling that he'll be the end of Batman and Wayne.

I did feel they could have had someone do a stand in Joker for the courtroom scenes though...

I agree, Tom Hardy was fantastic and, as I said earlier, I really thought Bane really was terrifying.

In regards to The Joker, Nolan recently said (in the empire TDKR issue) that, out of respect to Heath Ledger, the Joker wouldn't be even mentioned.

War Machine 539

Tom Hardy's Bane personified what the character was originally intended to be. Highly intelligent, ruthless and efficient. The beating he gave Batman in their first encounter was executed perfectly. You really felt that this man had no illusions that he was Batman's superior.

Really was excellent when Batman threw Banes earlier line Back at him.

''Tell me where the triggerman is. Then you have MY permission to die!''

You couldn't ask for a more solid villain. A villain who TRULY believes his cause.

Banes tears at the memory of what happened with Talia in the pit were a great idea too.

El Diablo Blanco

Just back from seeing it in Coolock. Loved it. Perfect end to the trilogy. Personally, I prefer not to rank the films, as they’re all part of a trilogy, and furthering the same story arc and themes, but TDKR is an exceptionally strong way to finish off.


Despite enjoying Bale’s performance thoroughly in TDK, I felt the Bruce/Batman character was sidetracked somewhat by the villains. I was glad to see that was not the case here, and his character gets the spotlight he deserves. Bale, again, was superb throughout. His momentary look of relief/release in the Bat cockpit before dropping the bomb was remarkably moving. In addition, his scene with Alfred in the mansion,with Alfred resigning, was very poignant. Very nice work by both men.


Tom Hardy was an excellent villain. Completely different to The Joker, and much, much more vicious. Again, they’re two completely different characters, and serve two different agendas, so I feel it’s largely moot to compare, personally. I was very surprised they actually went with the back-breaking scene. The fight leading up to it was very impressive. I was disappointed to see Bane killed off so quickly—like others have said, it seemed slightly anti-climactic. Despite the constrictions of the mask, Hardy was excellent, and conveyed a lot through his eyes; his scene with Talia at the end was terrific, and earned a nice bit of sympathy. I probably only missed one or two snippets of dialogue due to the muffled voice, but it was otherwise easy to understand. The accent grew on me a lot, and actually lended itself to the idea that Bane was a good bit older than Talia.


Joseph Gordon-Levitt was a great addition,as well, and his inclusion was a really, really classy way to do the Robin story convincingly. Successor, rather than partner. I think the “Robin”reference at the end was just a tiny bit too ham-handed, but him standing in the cave surrounded by bats, bringing things full circle, was a lovely touch.


I had hoped that Bane would be involved with the League of Shadows- and plan to raze Gotham to the ground, as Ra’s Al Ghul had planned in BB- and they exceeded expectations with that thread. The whole Ra’s/Talia/Bane backstory was fantastic.


Honestly, there was very little I didn’t like, if anything. It was a very ‘busy’ film, but nothing suffered. The story was very strong throughout, building brilliantly on the first two films, and upping the ante big time. It holds together very well, I reckon, as does the entire trilogy. Curious how/if they would’ve managed The Joker’s involvement, had Ledger not passed, but it was a great conclusion to the trilogy, including the film’s actual ending, itself, which was outstanding, and emotional, as others have said.


I’ll probably leave it a week before seeing it again, but definitely look forward to a second viewing to pick up a few more details. Great stuff.

niallon

Ok ok ok. First of all, in case there's any doubt left out there, there was nothing Inception style about the ending. Yes, it does look like the cut to Bruce and Selina was a studio tack on, but it was all real. Bruce would want Alfred to know he was alive. He would have been keeping an eye on Alfred, but be unable to appear alive and well anywhere near Gotham City. The fact that it was the same cafe and setting as Alfred's dream was simply to tie it all up for audiences. It could've been any cafe, Bruce knew where he would be. Phew!

I think I'd agree with most in that this is not by any means the best of the three films, or even above either of the first two, but it is a brilliant conclusion to the trilogy. In the neighbourhood of plot holes, I don't have many. I just have a general complaint that the whole thing seemed a little rushed. Bane for example, one minute rescued off a plane, next minute operating an extremely efficient network in the sewers. Meanwhile Alfred fills in all the back story. Just thought there could've been more fun had with it and I would've sooner had Bane reveal himself to Gotham rather than have Gordon brought to him and that be the reveal.

Didn't mind her performance on a general level of acting skill, but I didn't buy Hathaway as Catwoman at all. Some of this is in the writing though as I would have sooner had her as a hostile independent character as opposed to the "you don't know me" wise cracker she is.

Also, how the f**king f**k did Bruce get back to Gotham from the pit? One bridge in and its being watched both sides. And why oh why did he have to have a cheeky back and forth between him and Selina, all the while with a bomb literally ticking away? The single scene in the entire movie that had me doubting the direction, everything else was golden. Slightly related, I thought the scene as Batman takes off with the bomb in The Bat was a little poorly handled, Bale's voice not clear enough to make out instantly what he was saying meant that it wasn't entirely obvious until the flashback.

Loved the fact that Nolan threw in the Robin reference right at the end. His way of saying "You want Robin? Here he is, but I ain't directing him!"

Agree with those that think Bane isn't dead, he could prove to be useful down the line, even in an incarcerated prisoner sense as the Joker could've been in this.

All in all, I loved it and in a disappointing year, The Avengers aside, it'll be getting one or two more viewings in the cinema from me.

tony1kenobi

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

How did Bane find Gordon's speech?

Moving and revelatory,as did I.

War Machine 539

Fcuk it I am going out to see it again. Three times in one day isn't excessive is it?

Frankmagnet

One bit I found very rushed and seemed like there was a scene missing inbetween was when Miranda was with Gordon to mark the nuke truck, next scene was her with Fox and he asks Bruce can he get her out of the city and the next scene is Gordons courtroom scene and she is there too.

I know this seems like I have mixed them up but im sure thats the way it played out, going to watch is again tomorrow so I will double check.

niallon

I said it about a year ago, but this should've been split in two. Part one finishing with Bane breaking the Bat, part two The Dark Knight Rises. I know everything is being split for commercial reasons here but I think it would've made creative sense here

leggo

I don't mean to be the guy who ruins it, but I'd put money on something close to this exact conversation happening during the production of the movie.

"Ooh, nice ending! But does Alfred know he's alive when he goes there or is that where he learns it?"
"Ah we'll just leave it as one of those things."
"Oh. Right so."

Same as The Sopranos. There is no right or wrong answer, it's left for each individual to decide for themselves.

Savman

I will try summarize my initial thoughts;
-a very convoluted plot, but great finish
-too much of the Inception cast made some parts feel too familiar, replace Bale with DiCaprio and it could all be one big dream within a dream
-Bane was occasionally hard to understand
-still not won over by Hathaway as Catwoman, seemes more suited to a Bond girl tbh
-Bale & Gordon-Levitt both excellent

I agree with the previous point that these films should be taken as a trilogy and not be compared to each other. I loved BB, but TDK and in particular the Joker were both impossible to top.

TDKR is still a fine film and I think I need a few more viewings because I'm sure I missed a lot of small detail along the way. I liked the ending btw, glad they didn't end with Alfred's face as again it would have been very Inception-like (is he or isn't he?). A nice touch to end on a positive IMHO, draws a line under the story of Nolan's Batman.

Again, again!

Corholio

First of all, a truly wonderful way to end the trilogy. As great a trilogy as your ever likely to see I think. Kudo's to Nolan for the consistent quality he's had in all three films.

The Bane voice thing, there was a few lines at the start I couldn't quite make out, but could make out words which made me understand the gist of what he was saying, I think the voice could have been done a little clearer, especially when he says quite a few words in a row. But 80% I could make out. His voice was also quite powerful too and menacing to hear, which is another reason I wish they tweaked it just a little in clearer terms.

Thought Hathaway as Selina Kyle/Catwoman was fantastic and really surprised at the ease she takes to the role. She dosen't really have any huge sequences, but what she did she did really efficient, and no complaints there. Was genuinely surprised at the Robin revelation, and to a point the Talia turn too. First time that occurred was when she was crouched behind Batman right before she revealed herself.

The end was very fitting I thought, Caine at the graveside and the little nod to Bale. The final image of Levitt on the lifting platform was a great nod to the Dark Knight Rising image. Came out thinking that film's like this are why you go to the cinema in the first place, especially when you see a trailer for Step Up 4 beforehand.

johnny_ultimate

War Machine 539 wrote: »

Three times in one day isn't excessive is it?

A tad excessive, yes. I still have to admit I don't get the appeal of seeing a film several times in quick succession. I much prefer letting the film sink in and revisiting months or years down the line.

tony1kenobi

leggo wrote: »

I don't mean to be the guy who ruins it, but I'd put money on something close to this exact conversation happening during the production of the movie.

"Ooh, nice ending! But does Alfred know he's alive when he goes there or is that where he learns it?"
"Ah we'll just leave it as one of those things."
"Oh. Right so."

Same as The Sopranos. There is no right or wrong answer, it's left for each individual to decide for themselves.

Fox,Kyle and Blake all know Bruce faked his death.Why would he not have let his oldest friend Alfred know?I don't think there was any ambiguity whatsoever.

Having said that I don't think the Sopranos ending was ambiguous either.