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orange provocation

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    #452
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    TommyPolack wrote: »
    I have seen everything, it happened in front of my house, I have a nice footage of the whole thing, I have first responds from Polish politicians, Foreign Relations Office, Polish newspapers and more…


    You broke the law and I will make sure that justice will be served. I am surprised that Irish community couldn’t fix it but I will find out. “Dancing” on human rights is not only caveman behavior, it is against the law and this is the only thing I need to go ahead. You don’t know me and you do not know what I am capable of. I won with banks and insurance companies. Do you really think that I won’t win this one?
    Thanks to this conversation I have everything I need to proceed.
    Thank you lads for a wonderful and constructive conversation (excluding those who iincite to crime, “Hate crime” to be exact).

    Best of luck with it - but yes; I think you're wasting your time on the flag burning business.


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    #453
    true
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭true


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    You wouldn't email the Dublin - Wicklow LOI and tell them that, would you, they are a bit confused?:rolleyes:

    naw, I done it to the Glasgow Celtic fan club instead.;)

    Those behind the Union flag done a lot more to help TommyPolacks country in WW2 than the like of Charlie Haughey who burned the Union Flag in Dublin on the occassion of VE day in Europe, when the Allies ( inc the Polish ) were celebrating the end of the war.


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    #454
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    true wrote: »
    naw, I done it to the Glasgow Celtic fan club instead.;)

    Those behind the Union flag done a lot more to help TommyPolacks country in WW2 than the like of Charlie Haughey who burned the Union Flag in Dublin on the occassion of VE day in Europe, when the Allies ( inc the Polish ) were celebrating the end of the war.

    In fairness to Haughey (and much as it pains me to say it), that case was six of one, and a half dozen of the other. Some TCD students took down the tricolour and put up the union flag. Haughey's bunch took it down and burned it. Offense caused on both sides.


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    #455
    true
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭true


    alastair wrote: »
    In fairness to Haughey (and much as it pains me to say it), that case was six of one, and a half dozen of the other. Some TCD students took down the tricolour and put up the union flag. Haughey's bunch took it down and burned it. Offense caused on both sides.

    but if the tricolour can be flown freely in the UK, why can the union jack now be flown here on occassion in Ireland? Hundreds of people had left Trinity to volunteer in the war on Facism in Europe, and VE day was the celebration of victory / peace in Europe. More than a few Trinity students died helping liberate Europe, inc Poland.
    I remember passing Knock once, there were the flags of about 15 countries, not one of them was the Union Flag. Thankfully hardline attitudes like that are changing.


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    #456
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    true wrote: »
    but if the tricolour can be flown freely in the UK, why can the union jack now be flown here on occassion in Ireland? Hundreds of people had left Trinity to volunteer in the war on Facism in Europe, and VE day was the celebration of victory / peace in Europe. More than a few Trinity students died helping liberate Europe, inc Poland.
    I remember passing Knock once, there were the flags of about 15 countries, not one of them was the Union Flag. Thankfully hardline attitudes like that are changing.

    Did they pull down the union flag in said UK locations and replace it with the tricolour? Because otherwise it's kinda different, isn't it?


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    #457
    TommyPolack
    Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭TommyPolack


    alastair wrote: »
    Best of luck with it - but yes; I think you're wasting your time on the flag burning business.

    OK I get it.
    You have no regard for law, you like to offend people (regardless of way of doing it) and possibly it is funny for you.

    In this article, I gave you legal description of “flag desecration”, legal consequences and life examples of punishment for “Hate crime”. Last Thursday was a “festival of hatred” towards other nationalities. PERIOD.

    Again, I am surprised that Irish community allow this “spitting on national values” for so many years.


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    #458
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    true wrote: »
    The UK - in (..........) the UK. :D

    So you're going to be here repeating the same anecdote ad nauseam now?
    Last time it was GB Shaw, now its going to be about CJ, by the looks of things.

    Having you anything to add about the OP?


  • Options
    #459
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater
    Registered Users Posts: 3,236 ✭✭✭Dr. Kenneth Noisewater


    true wrote: »

    but if the tricolour can be flown freely in the UK, why can the union jack now be flown here on occassion in Ireland?

    Something to do with the illegal occupation of the island and the centuries of rape, pillage and cultural repression I'd imagine


  • Options
    #460
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    TommyPolack wrote: »
    OK I get it.
    You have no regard for law, you like to offend people (regardless of way of doing it) and possibly it is funny for you.

    In this article, I gave you legal description of “flag desecration”, legal consequences and life examples of punishment for “Hate crime”. Last Thursday was a “festival of hatred” towards other nationalities. PERIOD.

    Again, I am surprised that Irish community allow this “spitting on national values” for so many years.

    Frankly I don't think you get it at all.

    I've regard for the law - but the law of NI and here don't proscribe the burning of flags - anyone's. The patent reality is that no-one gets prosecuted for burning flags in Belfast - or anywhere else in the UK for that matter. That should tell you something? The article you attached made quite clear that there's no universal legal attitude to flag desecration.

    I'm not sure how you believe I've offended you.

    I don't find flag burning funny, but I do believe humour is a fantastic way of deflating sectarianism and bigotry - and I can't see how you can coerce people out of those attitudes.


  • Options
    #461
    flash1080
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭flash1080


    TommyPolack wrote: »
    I have seen everything, it happened in front of my house, I have a nice footage of the whole thing, I have first responds from Polish politicians, Foreign Relations Office, Polish newspapers and more…


    You broke the law and I will make sure that justice will be served. I am surprised that Irish community couldn’t fix it but I will find out. “Dancing” on human rights is not only caveman behavior, it is against the law and this is the only thing I need to go ahead. You don’t know me and you do not know what I am capable of. I won with banks and insurance companies. Do you really think that I won’t win this one?
    Thanks to this conversation I have everything I need to proceed.
    Thank you lads for a wonderful and constructive conversation (excluding those who iincite to crime, “Hate crime” to be exact).
    ****ing hell, this thread has been going around in circles for days, if you're going to do something about it stop posting on After Hours and do something productive.


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    #462
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    deccurley wrote: »
    Something to do with the illegal occupation of the island and the centuries of rape, pillage and cultural repression I'd imagine

    Illegal occupation? When was that then?

    There's always option B: spite.


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    #463
    true
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭true


    TommyPolack wrote: »
    Again, I am surprised that Irish community allow this “spitting on national values” for so many years.

    What do you expect? One reason why corruption was / is endemic in Ireland is because people saw the Taoiseach , Haughey, getting away with it - so if he could, people lower down the ladder say why should'nt I get a bit of it too.


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    #464
    votecounts
    Registered Users Posts: 2,617 ✭✭✭votecounts


    alastair wrote: »
    Again - the 12th isn't about celebrating conquering any foreign country. Try reading up on it.
    Lol, have you ever seen an orange march, its about humiliating the catholics and reminding them they won the battle of the boyne centuries ago.
    If the orange order loves britain so much,ship them over there and see who joins in their marches then and they can see rangers play in the 3rd division more frequently.


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    #465
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    true wrote: »
    What do you expect? One reason why corruption was / is endemic in Ireland is because people saw the Taoiseach , Haughey, getting away with it - so if he could, people lower down the ladder say why should'nt I get a bit of it too.

    Heh. You think the lads at the Belfast bonfires take their guidance from what Haughey got up to in the 40's? That's a novel idea for sure.


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    #466
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    votecounts wrote: »
    Lol, have you ever seen an orange march, its about humiliating the catholics and reminding them they won the battle of the boyne centuries ago.
    If the orange order loves britain so much,ship them over there and see who joins in their marches then and they can see rangers play in the 3rd division more frequently.

    I've attended the odd Orange march yes - have you?

    Pray tell - which foreign nation would you say was conquered at the battle of the Boyne?

    You are aware that the Orange Order do indeed parade in Britain, yep?


  • Options
    #467
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    alastair wrote: »
    My eyes and ears are fine. You're talking about a sectarian act, not a racist one.

    If that makes you more comfortable with it, rock on Tommy. Your side of the mouth defensiveness, and willfull blindness is sickening to anybody progressive and modernising. You and the OO are a dying breed.


  • Options
    #468
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    If that makes you more comfortable with it, rock on Tommy. Your side of the mouth defensiveness, and willfull blindness is sickening to anybody progressive and modernising. You and the OO are a dying breed.

    Ah diddums.


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    #469
    true
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭true


    alastair wrote: »
    Heh. You think the lads at the Belfast bonfires take their guidance from what Haughey got up to in the 40's?

    No, we are a foreign country to them. I am talking about the influence Haughey's corruption had on Ahern , the FF sly hoor cuteness, tribunals etc.

    The fact Haughey, who became the p.m. of the free state as they may sometimes call it, burnt the flag of their country would not surprise them.


  • Options
    #470
    TommyPolack
    Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭TommyPolack


    alastair wrote: »
    Frankly I don't think you get it at all.

    I've regard for the law - but the law of NI and here don't proscribe the burning of flags - anyone's. The patent reality is that no-one gets prosecuted for burning flags in Belfast - or anywhere else in the UK for that matter. That should tell you something? The article you attached made quite clear that there's no universal legal attitude to flag desecration.

    I'm not sure how you believe I've offended you.

    I don't find flag burning funny, but I do believe humour is a fantastic way of deflating sectarianism and bigotry - and I can't see how you can coerce people out of those attitudes.


    Possibly it will be difficult to catch people who placed all of the flags at the stakes.


    But the amount of claims issued to organisers of this event with request for compensation; can make a difference. Money talks...


    If Irish are OK with it, it is fine with me. All I say is that Irish have legal grounds to pursuit claims too. I can talk about the incident of burning flags belonging to nation which have NOTHING to do with your celebrations.
    How you want to spend 11/12 July, it is not my business.


    Burning Polish or any other flag during this celebration is a violation of law, where victims can pursuit justice / compensation. I am not talking only about me. Blowing this issue may result in “joint court action” or a massive amount of individual claims.


  • Options
    #471
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    true wrote: »
    No, we are a foreign country to them. I am talking about the influence Haughey's corruption had on Ahern , the FF sly hoor cuteness, tribunals etc.

    Ah right so. I thought you might actually be addressing the issue to hand.


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    #472
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    TommyPolack wrote: »
    Possibly it will be difficult to catch people who placed all of the flags at the stakes.


    But the amount of claims issued to organisers of this event with request for compensation; can make a difference. Money talks...

    What money would that be then? Requesting compensation without any foundation is pretty cheap for all concerned.
    TommyPolack wrote: »
    If Irish are OK with it, it is fine with me. All I say is that Irish have legal grounds to pursuit claims too.

    I seriously doubt it.

    TommyPolack wrote: »
    I can talk about the incident of burning flags belonging to nation which have NOTHING to do with your celebrations.

    As does the tricolour - which is regularly burned.

    TommyPolack wrote: »
    How you want to spend 11/12 July, it is not my business.

    Fair enough.

    TommyPolack wrote: »
    Burning Polish or any other flag during this celebration is a violation of law, where victims can pursuit justice / compensation. I am not talking only about me. Blowing this issue may result in “joint court action” or a massive amount of individual claims.

    Like I say - best of luck with it, but I'd say it has a snowball's chance in hell of getting anywhere legally.


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    #473
    TommyPolack
    Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭TommyPolack


    flash1080 wrote: »
    ****ing hell, this thread has been going around in circles for days, if you're going to do something about it stop posting on After Hours and do something productive.


    Trust me, I am doing. This post is only the intelligence gathering.


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    #474
    PauloMN
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 10,857 Mod ✭✭✭✭PauloMN


    alastair wrote: »
    My eyes and ears are fine. You're talking about a sectarian act, not a racist one.

    It's racist, plain and simple. Mind you, I fail to see how your assertion makes the crime any less serious. Racism and sectarianism both need to be stamped out of life in NI and elsewhere across these isles.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/glasgow_and_west/8109359.stm
    (Famine Song lyrics) are racist in calling upon people native to Scotland to leave the country because of their racial origins

    Have the OO made any statement condemning that provocation outside the Catholic church? Will that lodge be held accountable for the actions of its members? That at least would be a start.


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    #475
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    alastair wrote: »

    You are aware that the Orange Order do indeed parade in Britain, yep?

    And a pretty ineffectual organisation they are there, the world is progressing as they futter with their hidebound navels.
    2011, the ban on a monarch marrying a catholic is removed.
    That's 2011 not 1911 but hey, it's progress. :rolleyes:
    I hope I am alive when a Catholic takes the British throne, the craic will be mighty! :D


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    #476
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    true wrote: »
    No, we are a foreign country to them. I am talking about the influence Haughey's corruption had on Ahern , the FF sly hoor cuteness, tribunals etc.

    The fact Haughey, who became the p.m. of the free state as they may sometimes call it, burnt the flag of their country would not surprise them.

    Four mentions of Haughey.

    Anything to say on the OP?


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    #477
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    PauloMN wrote: »
    It's racist, plain and simple.

    It's not remotely racist. Which race do you believe are the victims in this case?


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    #478
    true
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭true


    Nodin wrote: »
    Anything to say on the OP?

    its said, open your eyes.


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    #479
    PauloMN
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 10,857 Mod ✭✭✭✭PauloMN


    alastair wrote: »
    It's not remotely racist. Which race do you believe are the victims in this case?

    "The famine is over, why don't you go home."

    Seriously, do I have to spell it out for you? The British courts hold the view that this ditty is racist, plain and simple. In what way do you believe that the British court is so far wrong?

    You are a perfect summary of what is wrong with the OO. Completely blind to rabid racism right in front of your eyes. Take off those orange tints and try and view the world from the side of someone who sees that carry on outside their local church in their country.

    Thankfully decent Protestants, both north and south, have nothing to do with the OO and its ilk.


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    #480
    TommyPolack
    Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭TommyPolack


    By the way, here is another good article

    International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination - http://www2.ohchr.org/english/law/cerd.htm

    Adopted and opened for signature and ratification by General Assembly resolution 2106 (XX)
    of 21 December 1965
    entry into force 4 January 1969, in accordance with Article 19

    And you still talk about it in NI, LOL

    "Considering that all human beings are equal before the law and are entitled to equal protection of the law against any discrimination and against any incitement to discrimination,"

    There are tones of articles online. ALL of them say exactly the same thing.


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    #481
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    And a pretty ineffectual organisation they are there, the world is progressing as they futter with their hidebound navels.
    2011, the ban on a monarch marrying a catholic is removed.
    That's 2011 not 1911 but hey, it's progress. :rolleyes:
    I hope I am alive when a Catholic takes the British throne, the craic will be mighty! :D

    Why?


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