Keep Calm And Discuss Retro Generally!

CiDeRmAn

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

...I was talking to one of the directors, now ex-director, of Gamestop, formerly a founder of Gamesworld, and he told me way back some 18 months ago that HMV were going to go bang, that as long as they sold tenners for a fiver they'd never succeed, which seems to mean all the discounts, all the sale items were killing them as they weren't selling enough full price stock to cover the shortfall...

This is a risky diversification strategy in retail and consumer packaged goods at the moment that just didn't work out for HMV because of the particular space they're in. The idea is that you close most of your minor shops, and your flagship high street stores stay open and act as just that: flagships for the brand, to keep the company well known and in the public eye while you shift your operations to online commerce and digital delivery.

Essentially you take a risk on costing yourself money in bricks and mortar to keep your brand well known and in the public eye while you shift your operations to other growth areas (in this case online commerce and digital delivery) and scale one down gradually as the other one starts to grow. It's like starting a new business, but not from scratch, because you've already got a big brand name that people trust, and that's really the only thing of value you own, so you take a conscious decision to cost yourself money to protect and maintain it.

Problem is, apart from all the brand associations with the "old" way of doing things, HMV's online operations simply couldn't offer loyal customers of the likes of amazon and itunes any reason to switch to them. They couldn't compete on a cost basis, and their brand didn't do enough to differentiate itself over the (already well in the lead) competition, so one side of the business was costing a fortune and the other side wasn't making enough to subsidize it.

How many of you ever bought anything off of hmv.com?

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

I definitely think gamers are losing out most from a potential HMV closure - they were easily the best-priced retailer for both new titles and discounted games.

That's exactly what i thought when i heard they were in administration. They didn't represent good value for anyone but the discerning shop-around savvy gamer who was buying new or discounted current gen titles on physical media. Everything, i mean every single other thing they sold in store was available easily and more cheaply online, delivered to your door, work, or now even to your local shopping centre or petrol station (thank you parcel motel!).

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

I disagree that physical media is completely dead

Not completely, but hey, turntables and 45's aren't completely dead either. My dad's got a few of them in the attic somewhere...still bangs on about how they're better than all these new fangled mp3s, too, to anyone who'll listen

Nerdkiller1991

Deleted User wrote: »

Not completely, but hey, turntables and 45's aren't completely dead either. My dad's got a few of them in the attic somewhere...still bangs on about how they're better than all these new fangled mp3s, too, to anyone who'll listen

Wasn't there a UK survey for last years sales stating that just over 60% of music sales are still in a physical format?

Also, I'm pretty certain that physical media will stick around for years to come for the same reason that laserdiscs did until DVD. Better quality overall and extras packed in every disc. You can't get lossless audio from streaming, afterall.

Also, I just got my 3DTV today.

CiDeRmAn

But if 60% of music sales were on a physical format why are HMV up sh1t creek?
I like to browse and if buying actual cds, dvds or books get them from a proper shop.
So, if we can assume most people are similar, then HMV should be packed, but it's not.
Another thing to remember is, the music megastore is a new phenom, prior to the mid 80'd we did out music shopping in smaller outlets, the largest chain here being Golden Discs, perhaps we are returning to this, as the larger primo rent premises HMVs just can't sell product people want at the prices they want to pay.
Maybe we are going to see a return to more specialised music shops that are dedicated to more niche product.
The only people who may lose will be the middle ground, the M'eh of the music world, while the edges, be it dance, r'nb, even trad all have shops that sell to their particular audience.
|Maybe we'll see the return of Abbey Discs!

Myrddin

The bricks n mortar stores in the US have the right idea, & not just media outlets - many forms of shop all offer significant incentive for the shopper to actually go out & shop with them:

Free parking where applicable
Spend x amount & you get a free lunch/dinner in the food court
Spend x amount & get %x discount

and so on. Irish retailers the way I see it are up against it, & as such our custom should be a high priority. Burying head sin the sand hoping we'll continue shopping with them isn't going to cut it

valleyoftheunos

Vouchers owners are unsecured creditors of HMV, Upon Liquidation Unsecured Creditors get paid after everyone else (which usually means not at all). The Examiner of a company has a statutory duty to preserve all the assets of the company so that secured creditors get paid in priority should the company go into liquidation. Essentially that means that he wouldn't be meeting his duty if he allowed unsecured creditors to be paid. Thus he is obliged to refuse to honour Vouchers.

It absolutely sucks for customers but without that sort of protection for major secured creditors there wouldn't be businesses out there at all. The idea is that you shouldn't blame the Examiner or the Law but rather the Directors of HMV who failed to run the company successfully to the point where it is now insolvent and on the verge of Liquidation.

Myrddin

valleyoftheunos wrote: »

Vouchers owners are unsecured creditors of HMV, Upon Liquidation Unsecured Creditors get paid after everyone else (which usually means not at all). The Examiner of a company has a statutory duty to preserve all the assets of the company so that secured creditors get paid in priority should the company go into liquidation. Essentially that means that he wouldn't be meeting his duty if he allowed unsecured creditors to be paid. Thus he is obliged to refuse to honour Vouchers.

It absolutely sucks for customers but without that sort of protection for major secured creditors there wouldn't be businesses out there at all. The idea is that you shouldn't blame the Examiner or the Law but rather the Directors of HMV who failed to run the company successfully to the point where it is now insolvent and on the verge of Liquidation.

So basically:

"Here's €50 in the till from a voucher we sold yesterday. Lets cancel the voucher & use that €50 to pay off our debts"

It does indeed suck.

o1s1n

valleyoftheunos

EnterNow wrote: »

So basically:

"Here's €50 in the till from a voucher we sold yesterday. Lets cancel the voucher & use that €50 to pay off our debts"

It does indeed suck.

Well technically the voucher is not cancelled its just not being honoured right now. Once the company ceases trading and is wound up you will be entitled to have your E50 repaid to you... once everyone else (the tax man, the banks, the staff etc) have been paid first.

Steve X2

Now is the time for Gamestop to come out and say it'll honour HMV vouchers (even if its only up to say 50-100 Euro)
That would be a great bit of PR on their side. It'll never happen but in a happy world with blue skies it might.

CiDeRmAn

o1s1n wrote: »

And the great thing is, a little green paint (ok, a lot of green paint) and he can go to the next party as the Prince from Katamari Damacy!

Myrddin

valleyoftheunos wrote: »

Well technically the voucher is not cancelled its just not being honoured right now. Once the company ceases trading and is wound up you will be entitled to have your E50 repaid to you... once everyone else (the tax man, the banks, the staff etc) have been paid first.

Yeah, I won't hold my breath. Its effectively worthless. They still have the money that bought it though

Nerdkiller1991

Nerdkiller1991 wrote: »

I'm pretty certain that physical media will stick around for years to come for the same reason that laserdiscs did until DVD. Better quality overall...You can't get lossless audio from streaming, afterall...

Not yet, but that's only a question of broadband bandwidth, which is constantly increasing.

i was only messing though, i do think that there'll always be physical media, but it will become more and more specialist,and only the retailers that provide a specialist service and knowledge will survive. Anything that'scommoditized, chart based, etc, or doesn't need any kind of specialist advice will just end up streamed,downloaded, or at best bought in physical form but via online transaction.

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

But if 60% of music sales were on a physical format why are HMV up sh1t creek?

Physical media sold via online sales. Your amazons, play.coms etc are probably a decent chunk of that 60% whereas 15 years ago 100% of that was HMV's turf.I'd be interested to see stats on what percentage of music sales were in walk inbricks and mortar retail outlets last year.

I'd wager 20-30% at best.

OwaynOTT

Who wants lossless? 320 Kbps is where it at bitches!

OwaynOTT

Actuall if you are a bitch, as in a dog, you might actually prefer lossless as your hearing is actually capable of noticing the difference.

o1s1n

OwaynOTT wrote: »

Who wants lossless? 320 Kbps is where it at bitches!

320 Kbps? And what about that other 380 Kbps which were chopped out? Lost if you will? :pac:

o1s1n

OwaynOTT wrote: »

Actuall if you are a bitch, as in a dog, you might actually prefer lossless as your hearing is actually capable of noticing the difference.

Maybe on your pauper hifi.



:pac:

Myrddin

o1s1n wrote: »

320 Kbps? And what about that other 380 Kbps which were chopped out? Lost if you will? :pac:

You'd prob only notice the difference on a proper hi-fi set up at that stage would you?

o1s1n

EnterNow wrote: »

You'd prob only notice the difference on a proper hi-fi set up at that stage would you?

Definitely. If you're listening to music on your pc speakers or the headphones that came with your phone, it's absolutely pointless.

I do have FLAC files for the discographies of my favourite bands. They sound bloody amazing on that hifi I put together last year.

Whether there's a massive difference between that and 320 kbps doesn't really matter. If it's your favourite music then you might as well have it at the best quality possible.

When it comes to everything else, 320 kbps does me grand.

Myrddin

I'd love a proper hi-fi setup, because when you have that you can really here the differences. But not having the room for one, means my ears are blissfully unaware of how lossless most stuff is.

Steve X2

Drop in to your nearest Bang and Olufsen store (DonnyBrook for me) and ask them to test out some music you've brought along on one of their top sound systems (you are of course interested in parting with some cash that day if they ask). Have some FLAC and some 320kbps mp3's tracks as well as a couple of 96kbps mp3's to test and you'll hear the difference.

Myrddin

I remember having a demo not unlike that in Cloney Audio in Blackrock... its incredible how different a proper audio setup is when coupled with a room that lends itself well to audio

This is all a moot point. CD quality is where the "bar" rests for most music sold today. That's 16bit 44.1khz, and depending on the most important piece of equipment in your audio setup (ie: your ears) you won't notice any change in the fidelity of a modern digital recording after a point that varies individually but is usually somewhere between 192-320 Kbps.

95% of people pay no attention to any of this stuff when buying their music online. It's not even a factor in their buying process. Criteria are price, selection available, ease of purchase and browsing, ease of access and integration with portable players, and maybe (maybe) stuff like DRM and rights management etc. As long as the music they buy is about CD quality or better, bitrate doesn't come into it for most people.

Myrddin

Deleted User wrote: »

This is all a moot point. CD quality is where the "bar" rests for most music sold today. That's 16bit 44.1khz, and depending on the most important piece of equipment in your audio setup (ie: your ears) you won't notice any change in the fidelity of a modern digital recording after a point that varies individually but is usually somewhere between 192-320 Kbps.

You will notice a difference, sure enough its audiophile stuff but I've heard vinyl, cd, 320Kbps & FLAC all pushed through the same system in a demo before & sure enough, there's substantial differences. The problem is is costs €€€ to hear though, & you reach the point of diminishing return very quickly.

95% of people pay no attention to any of this stuff when buying their music online. It's not even a factor in their buying process. Criteria are price, selection available, ease of purchase and browsing, ease of access and integration with portable players, and maybe (maybe) stuff like DRM and rights management etc. As long as the music they buy is about CD quality or better, bitrate doesn't come into it for most people.

Thats essentially it. 95% of people arn't audiophiles, & just want cheap, small convenient digital media these days. Niche or specialist stuff won't change the way things trend

o1s1n

It's kind of worrying when you consider archiving. If it weren't for audiophiles/software pirates, our media history wouldn't be a patch on what it should be.

OwaynOTT

There is a notable difference between 96, 256 and 320. Betwee. 320 and flac/lossless I think there isn't a noticeable difference. It's a placebo effect and as Oisin demostrated you tend to reserve it only for your favourite music but them I'm not sure of the point I'm looking for there maybe something to do with bias.
Anyway Enternow GnR are crap no matter what.

I have a decent Sony system at the moment good but not excellent. Had a Sanyo one with a record player on it when I was younger and my was that a sight and sound to behold. Mother threw it out along with my Snes boxes and Lego! We have an attic full of trolls and polly pocket.
She even got rid of my full set of monsters in my pocket that came free with wheetos but kept my sisters 94 World Cup pop up from the cornflakes.
Beginning to think she has a favourite offspring.
Speaking of offspring, now they sound great so matter what you hear them on.

CiDeRmAn

Ah, time to rename the thread "Keep Calm And Listen To High End Audio Generally"!
Post up links to stylus bargains and O2 free cables!

OwaynOTT

I dunno what's going I with this thread today. It's all respectable online vs bricks and mortar, physical vs digital and music quality. All debated coherently and argued very reasonably where's the sexual innuendo?

o1s1n

OwaynOTT wrote: »

Anyway Enternow GnR are crap no matter what.

My mam was given something amazing recently, my great, great (!) grandfather's valve radio.

It's a huge yolk, but still works once the valves heat up.

I asked could I have it and was laughed at

Myrddin

OwaynOTT wrote: »

There is a notable difference between 96, 256 and 320. Betwee. 320 and flac/lossless I think there isn't a noticeable difference. It's a placebo effect and as Oisin demostrated you tend to reserve it only for your favourite music but them I'm not sure of the point I'm looking for there maybe something to do with bias.

It certainly not a placebo affect, have you ever listened to a proper hi fi separates system? I don't think people spend in excess of 10/20/50k on an audio system just for a placebo effect.

Anyway Enternow GnR are crap no matter what.

Well as I've said many times, there's no accounting for taste. Some people even think an FZ-10 is better looking than an FZ-1...it takes all sorts.

I have a decent Sony system at the moment good but not excellent

Thats not a hi-fi setup though, is it one of those integrated systems type things?

Steve X2

EnterNow wrote: »

Well as I've said many times, there's no accounting for taste. Some people even think an FZ-10 is better looking than an FZ-1...it takes all sorts.