Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Gardai carrying Guns

Options
1…5681011…17

Comments

  • Options
    #212
    Poccington
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭Poccington


    war_child wrote: »
    In relation to the soldier v guard debate , on the whole all soldiers are trained to use deadly force , the gardai are not , i honestly think this whole thread is ridiculous the fact that we dont have armed guards patrolling our streets our neighbourhood our counties is the main reason i stay in this country, arming the police is just far to American and with all honesty knowing some guards in this country i personally wouldnt arm them.

    After coming out of training, a Private is expected to carry out certain duties which put him out on the streets, while armed with something a bit bigger than a pistol and the responsibility of using said firearm comes down solely on that Private's shoulders.

    A member of AGS spends longer in training than a Recruit in the DF, so surely it's no major task for them to learn how to use a firearm and the consequent ROE.

    Seriously, being "trained to use deadly force" is nothing more than being given ROE and having a brain in your head.


  • Options
    #213
    war_child
    Registered Users Posts: 453 ✭✭war_child


    Eru wrote: »
    What a pathetic post.

    Really, I couldn't even be bothered pointing out the glaring holes in it so I will leave it to the many others that surely will.


    ERU how bout ya shove it up the darkest part of my lily white ....far to many gardai on here defending their menial jobs ...how bout ya go and arrest someone(actual criminals not people havin a drink) do your jobs for once.... its fun to slag someone elses post.


  • Options
    #214
    Hooch
    Registered Users Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭Hooch


    war_child wrote: »
    ERU how bout ya shove it up the darkest part of my lily white ....far to many gardai on here defending their menial jobs ...how bout ya go and arrest someone(actual criminals not people havin a drink) do your jobs for once.... its fun to slag someone elses post.

    Infracted, Attack the post, not the poster(s)


  • Options
    #215
    Locust
    Registered Users Posts: 319 ✭✭Locust


    war_child wrote: »
    ERU how bout ya shove it up the darkest part of my lily white ....far to many gardai on here defending their menial jobs ...how bout ya go and arrest someone(actual criminals not people havin a drink) do your jobs for once.... its fun to slag someone elses post.

    One would initially make the assumption that you were sincerely interested in responses to the challenges you make. I am sorry to have made that assumption, as your intemperate language seems like a mask for your inability to engage in ordinary discourse. I am a critical and rational thinker, and I respect those fellow boardsies who are the same. Inferring that a member 'go arrest a real criminal rather than those out for a drink' is just being juvenile and says a lot about you as a person.

    Are you able to return to a discussion? Would you not agree that if a disciplined and trained guard had a handgun as part of his utility belt at a checkpoint - that it would serve as a major deterrent to criminals?


  • Options
    #216
    cocoshovel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,041 ✭✭✭cocoshovel


    war_child wrote: »
    ERU how bout ya shove it up the darkest part of my lily white ....far to many gardai on here defending their menial jobs ...how bout ya go and arrest someone(actual criminals not people havin a drink) do your jobs for once.... its fun to slag someone elses post.

    Oh wow get a load of this ignorance. Im curious to know what type of job you have btw?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #217
    Preset No.3
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,385 ✭✭✭Preset No.3


    Something that I have always found interesting. With the exception of uniformed armed units, you rarely see plain clothes officers having their weapon on display. Just last week, I saw 3 people get out of an unmarked car, 2 of which made sure to cover their gun, the third didnt bother.

    Is it unwritten policy that if an armed member is out of the car that the weapon be concealed? I would have thought in today society that having a show of strength would deter crime of sorts from happening.

    Final question, are all armed plain clothes members using the same weapon? Is it the Sig Sauer P229? Can an officer purchase his own firearm?


  • Options
    #218
    Locust
    Registered Users Posts: 319 ✭✭Locust


    Preset No.3 wrote: »
    ...Is it unwritten policy that if an armed member is out of the car that the weapon be concealed? ...
    Final question, are all armed plain clothes members using the same weapon? Is it the Sig Sauer P229? Can an officer purchase his own firearm?

    Guards are not permitted to discuss operational tactics, policies or strategies, nor disclose what firearms they may or may not carry... Google, Wiki and Garda Press office are there for you if you want it.

    You would presume if they are in plain clothes that it would defeat the purpose.


  • Options
    #219
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    At some piont almost every police force in the world had the Old Smith & Wesson
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_%26_Wesson_Model_10

    You have already mentioned the Sig
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIG_Sauer_P226

    In relation to buying their own firearms that's a bit of an american thing I would be prepared to bet heavily against that it happens in many other 1st world countries.


  • Options
    #220
    Preset No.3
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,385 ✭✭✭Preset No.3


    Locust wrote: »
    Guards are not permitted to discuss operational tactics, policies or strategies, nor disclose what firearms they may or may not carry... Google, Wiki and Garda Press office are there for you if you want it.

    You would presume if they are in plain clothes that it would defeat the purpose.

    Thanks Gard for that really unhelpful answer. Im glad I came to this thread in this section of boards to get an answer like that! :mad::mad:

    By the way, when a member gets out of a Ford Mondeo with LEDs front of the dash, and side repeaters and in the rear window, they dont exactly look like they are hiding anything. My point is that if we saw more of a presence of armed garda, it might deter day to day petty crime. Im not talking about gun totting officers, but being in simple plain view!


  • Options
    #221
    goldie fish
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,195 ✭✭✭goldie fish


    Preset No.3 wrote: »
    Thanks Gard for that really unhelpful answer. Im glad I came to this thread in this section of boards to get an answer like that! :mad::mad:

    By the way, when a member gets out of a Ford Mondeo with LEDs front of the dash, and side repeaters and in the rear window, they dont exactly look like they are hiding anything. My point is that if we saw more of a presence of armed garda, it might deter day to day petty crime. Im not talking about gun totting officers, but being in simple plain view!

    Thats what the RSU is for. You don't carry firearms to intimidate, you carry them for self defence etc.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #222
    Locust
    Registered Users Posts: 319 ✭✭Locust


    Preset No.3 wrote: »
    Thanks Gard for that really unhelpful answer. Im glad I came to this thread in this section of boards to get an answer like that! :mad::mad:

    By the way, when a member gets out of a Ford Mondeo with LEDs front of the dash, and side repeaters and in the rear window, they dont exactly look like they are hiding anything. My point is that if we saw more of a presence of armed garda, it might deter day to day petty crime. Im not talking about gun totting officers, but being in simple plain view!

    You also asked what kind of firearms members carry and asked about carriage procedures - Gardai won't discuss policies & tactics in a public forum for obvious reasons. Simples.

    I fully agree with you though, armed presence will deter crime, yes the logic is quite straight forward. I would prefer to see more uniform RSU/ARV types personally. I don't 'fully' agree with detectives who are supposed to be there to investigate the piles of and piles of more serious crimes being taken off their investigative duties to perform armed checkpoints... (although I know it does fall under their role sometimes as well) but why can't we have more proper RSU types for that and leave detectives to their detecting. Maybe in a semi-perfect world, thats just my thoughts. As someone said its for self defense, perhaps in a semi-perfect world each guard would be fully trained and armed with Glock pistol, as that deterrant/self defense measure.


  • Options
    #223
    Preset No.3
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,385 ✭✭✭Preset No.3


    goldie fish wrote: »
    Thats what the RSU is for. You don't carry firearms to intimidate, you carry them for self defence etc.

    I never said intimidate, I said deter day to day crime!


  • Options
    #224
    CharlieCroker
    Registered Users Posts: 8,451 ✭✭✭CharlieCroker


    Locust wrote: »
    perhaps in a semi-perfect world each guard would be fully trained and armed with Glock pistol, as that deterrant/self defense measure.

    In a semi-perfect world, we wouldn't need them! :(


  • Options
    #225
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    Guns don't deter crime. They deter f**king with the people that deter crime.


  • Options
    #226
    Qualitymark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    ***newsflash*** All nine of those shot and injured outside the Empire State Building were casualties of police gunfire...

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/video-shows-police-shooting-of-man-who-killed-former-colleague-outside-empire-state-building/2012/08/24/a90c30ce-ee4c-11e1-b624-99dee49d8d67_story.html


  • Options
    #227
    St. Leibowitz
    Registered Users Posts: 349 ✭✭St. Leibowitz


    Zambia wrote: »
    Guns don't deter crime. They deter f**king with the people that deter crime.


    I don't really get this. Watched some of those late night shows on TV about British cops. They follow cops around various cities. EVERY time, whenever they do NI, the amount of abuse the cops get outside clubs in Derry or Belfast is hugely more than any other city. It seems to me that the public in NI are so accustomed to routinely armed police, and the yobs know that the cops can't use those weapons that the abuse they throw is an order of magnitude greater than elsewhere.

    Your statement above implies that if you f**k with an armed cop, they'll pull the gun and use it. It that really what you think ?? Is that what'll happen ??? I don't think so.


  • Options
    #228
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    Words don't matter


  • Options
    #229
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Empire State Building shooting victim says NYPD fired 'randomly' into street

    "Officers injured nine bystanders as they pursued gunman Jeffrey Johnson, who appeared to have just one intended target"

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/aug/24/empire-state-building-shooting-nypd-response


  • Options
    #230
    Eru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,357 ✭✭✭Eru


    monument wrote: »
    Empire State Building shooting victim says NYPD fired 'randomly' into street

    "Officers injured nine bystanders as they pursued gunman Jeffrey Johnson, who appeared to have just one intended target"

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/aug/24/empire-state-building-shooting-nypd-response
    Qualitymark wrote: »
    ***newsflash*** All nine of those shot and injured outside the Empire State Building were casualties of police gunfire...

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/video-shows-police-shooting-of-man-who-killed-former-colleague-outside-empire-state-building/2012/08/24/a90c30ce-ee4c-11e1-b624-99dee49d8d67_story.html


    Bastards! WHy did they not allow the murderer to kill them and then walk away? Weak willed pussy cops!

    NEWSFLASH, only person killed by police was the original shooter with bystanders being hit by schrapnel. NYPD did not initiate a gun battle but they sure as **** stopped it and innocent people being KILLED

    By the way Quality, you have just confirmed to me that your nothing nut a cop hater so ignore ignore ignore


  • Options
    #231
    Qualitymark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    Eru wrote: »
    Bastards! WHy did they not allow the murderer to kill them and then walk away? Weak willed pussy cops!

    NEWSFLASH, only person killed by police was the original shooter with bystanders being hit by schrapnel. NYPD did not initiate a gun battle but they sure as **** stopped it and innocent people being KILLED

    By the way Quality, you have just confirmed to me that your nothing nut a cop hater so ignore ignore ignore

    I think the guy had killed himself already.

    "Nothing nut a cop hater"???


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #232
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    Qualitymark wrote: »
    I think the guy had killed himself already.

    What makes you think that?

    Listen its a crappy situation to be in at the time nobody could be sure if this guy is going to roam the street popping people in the head.

    The 2 officers suddenly found themselves facing a bloke pointing a gun at them.

    I would not judge them to quickly unless you have been similar scenario.


  • Options
    #233
    Qualitymark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    Zambia wrote: »
    What makes you think that?

    Listen its a crappy situation to be in at the time nobody could be sure if this guy is going to roam the street popping people in the head.

    The 2 officers suddenly found themselves facing a bloke pointing a gun at them.

    I would not judge them to quickly unless you have been similar scenario.

    Oh, I was wrong - I'd heard that he killed himself, but in fact he was shot by police.

    From your use of the term 'popping', may I guess that you are American?


  • Options
    #234
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    If you want to thats fine


  • Options
    #235
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Eru wrote: »
    Bastards! WHy did they not allow the murderer to kill them and then walk away? Weak willed pussy cops!

    NEWSFLASH, only person killed by police was the original shooter with bystanders being hit by schrapnel. NYPD did not initiate a gun battle but they sure as **** stopped it and innocent people being KILLED

    But others were shot by the police. I'm sure they are glad not to be dead, but not so glad they were shot by the people who are suposed to be protecting them.

    There's still no sign that he was going to kill anybody else. Unlike some of the police officers, his shooting was very targeted.

    Very good reason for guns to be limited to highly trained officers.


  • Options
    #236
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    monument wrote: »

    There's still no sign that he was going to kill anybody else. Unlike some of the police officers, his shooting was very targeted.

    Very good reason for guns to be limited to highly trained officers.

    Yes and the beat cops can dodge "very targeted" .45 calibre bullets till they arrive.


  • Options
    #237
    source
    Registered Users Posts: 5,269 ✭✭✭source


    monument wrote: »
    Eru wrote: »
    Bastards! WHy did they not allow the murderer to kill them and then walk away? Weak willed pussy cops!

    NEWSFLASH, only person killed by police was the original shooter with bystanders being hit by schrapnel. NYPD did not initiate a gun battle but they sure as **** stopped it and innocent people being KILLED

    But others were shot by the police. I'm sure they are glad not to be dead, but not so glad they were shot by the people who are suposed to be protecting them.

    There's still no sign that he was going to kill anybody else. Unlike some of the police officers, his shooting was very targeted.

    Very good reason for guns to be limited to highly trained officers.

    How do you know he want going to shoot anyone else? He had already shot one person, police used necessary force, in a stressful and dangerous situation, in one of the most densely populated cities in the world.

    Its easy to sit back in the comfort if your home and pick apart what happened, but firing a pistol is not as easy as the movies or video games make out. Innocent bystanders get hurt in these situations. It's regrettable but, if rather hear of a few injuries by ricochet, than to hear that the gunman managed to kill more people.

    Policing is a dangerous profession, and as I said before in this thread, our police need the right tools to do the job. It just so happens the tool required for this profession is a firearm.


  • Options
    #238
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    source wrote: »
    ...police used necessary force...

    I'd fully agree if they had not shot anybody else.

    source wrote: »
    Its easy to sit back in the comfort if your home and pick apart what happened, but firing a pistol is not as easy as the movies or video games make out. Innocent bystanders get hurt in these situations. It's regrettable but, if rather hear of a few injuries by ricochet, than to hear that the gunman managed to kill more people.

    Actually firing a pistol in a lot of the computer games I've played is hard, or more so accuracy is hard. Accuracy is also hard in real life -- exactly why it should be left up to highly trained officers.

    source wrote: »
    Policing is a dangerous profession, and as I said before in this thread, our police need the right tools to do the job. It just so happens the tool required for this profession is a firearm.

    You're not making the case for it and the NYC shooting goes against your cause.


  • Options
    #239
    bravestar
    Registered Users Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭bravestar


    monument wrote: »




    Actually firing a pistol in a lot of the computer games I've played is hard, or more so accuracy is hard. Accuracy is also hard in real life -- exactly why it should be left up to highly trained officers.

    My god, you are actually comparing using firearms in computer games to real life, dynamic situations. I can tell you, they are not similar. You arguments might have more weight to them if they were grounded in reality. So why dont you go get some training in defensive pistol use, in REAL life, not on Xbox live, and then come back and tell us if you still think the same way?


  • Options
    #240
    IRLConor
    Subscribers Posts: 4,075 ✭✭✭IRLConor


    bravestar wrote: »
    So why dont you go get some training in defensive pistol use, in REAL life, not on Xbox live, and then come back and tell us if you still think the same way?

    I would advise against that, unless monument wants to fall foul of this or this. :)


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #241
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    bravestar wrote: »
    My god, you are actually comparing using firearms in computer games to real life, dynamic situations. I can tell you, they are not similar. You arguments might have more weight to them if they were grounded in reality. So why dont you go get some training in defensive pistol use, in REAL life, not on Xbox live, and then come back and tell us if you still think the same way?

    No, I'm just saying that shooting people accuracy in computer games is not always as easy as the other poster made out.

    There can also be "dynamic situations" in commuter games too, as well as highly advanced physics (to the point that they have to scale them back in many games to keep them fun) and there's moving targets etc. None of this is me seriously comparing games to a real situation that police can find them selves in!


Advertisement