Gardai carrying Guns

BronsonTB

Arming all gaurds would just put alot more weaponry into circulation.
And by & large it is not required. It is not legal here for members of the public to carry guns so why should every gaurd??. We have the ARU for a reason. Resources are already stretched and training every member of the force in their use would be costly & unproductive. I would not be in favor of this at all so it gets a NO vote in my book.

And yes I know we have armed criminals but we have ARU to deal with them.

Witcher

MEMBER12 wrote: »

There is a need, more armed gangs, more violent criminals, the IRA at it again, Ice/Crystel Meth is here. Are you just waiting for another Anthony Cambell, and I'm not trying to be smart here. Let us put it out there, have a vote both within the Gardai and the Dail. Talk about it now before some incident happens? Guns are coming in with drugs all the time. How long before we have turf wars, the IRA are trying to take a cut. Do you think these drug gangs are gonna roll over.

Anthony Campbell? Really? How is that in any way relevent to this debate? The Gardai being armed wouldn't have helped him. Stop being sensationalist...if the IRA want to start trouble they'll do it...the were going at it with the BA and the SAS regularly in the north...some 20 something wet behind the ears Garda straight out of Templemore and holding a 9mm he has fired 100 or so times isn't going to worry them.

When there is a legitimate need..they will get them

MEMBER12

The British Army work in large groups, Gardai do not. And as for Anthony Campbell you are right, arming Gardai will not help him, but they may help the next guy. I would also like to point out that 99% of coppers all over the world would not have the skill ability of their military. There a also a decent number of x military guys in the Gardai. Why can the Gardai not be trained to the same standard as the Canadian, Aussie,French police etc! My point is that by the time you think they need them it may be too late.

MEMBER12

Why do the public need firearms? This not a Garda v Public thing, this is a Garda v Criminal issue.

Witcher

Too late for what? The country isn't just going to descend into chaos overnight..and arming the Gardai wouldn't stop it even if it was. Firearms in the hands of Gardai isn't going to make Ireland some crimeless utopian society..in fact it would be an indication that the country is quite the opposite.

Witcher

MEMBER12 wrote: »

Why do the public need firearms? This not a Garda v Public thing, this is a Garda v Criminal issue.

For sporting reasons...every one of the 200000+ firearms licenced here are for sporting usage.

MEMBER12

I accept that.

MEMBER12

Of course it will not fall into chaos, I'm not talking Mad Max here. I'm talking about safety of Gardai and the public. Whenever I travel abroad I never think for a minute that if the police are armed, that this society is crime ridden. I actually feel quite comfortable, that these guys have the tools and skills to do the job.

Turner

The issue is we have a large number of unarmed Gardai on the streets who respond daily to..

Armed robberies
Panic alarms (where they run into banks and shops where there could be an armed robbery taking place
violence involving deadly weapons, knives etc

There are also alot of rural members working alone who patrol unarmed. And who have actually come up against armed individuals and have had to back off or have been attacked and had to run!

We also have Garda motorcyclists who operate alone, who can technically get to the scene of an armed incident first (due to their speed and maneuverability) who in my opinion should be armed.


One third of the force is armed at the moment which people dont seem to have any problem with. Armed units are not always available and it is left to regular unarmed Gardai respond to armed incidents.

When the call of an armed incident comes in, unarmed Gardai do not say "Im not going to that Im not armed".

All Gardai respond and always have done.

The least the public can do is support for them all to be armed and in a position to protect themselves and the public.

Witcher

Turner wrote: »

The issue is we have a large number of unarmed Gardai on the streets who respond daily to..

Armed robberies
Panic alarms (where they run into banks and shops where there could be an armed robbery taking place
violence involving deadly weapons, knives etc

There are also alot of rural members working alone who patrol unarmed. And who have actually come up against armed individuals and have had to back off or have been attacked and had to run!

We also have Garda motorcyclists who operate alone, who can technically get to the scene of an armed incident first (due to their speed and maneuverability) who in my opinion should be armed.


One third of the force is armed at the moment which people dont seem to have any problem with. Armed units are not always available and it is left to regular unarmed Gardai respond to armed incidents.

When the call of an armed incident comes in, unarmed Gardai do not say "Im not going to that Im not armed".

All Gardai respond and always have done.

The least the public can do is support for them all to be armed and in a position to protect themselves and the public.

They back off now at a robbery and the guys get away with the money etc. Give the Gardai firearms...whats gonna happen? They'll be intervening and inevitably they will start getting killed...how many Gardai are shot and killed in these situations as it stands now? I haven't heard of one in the recent past. It might help the odd Garda in some situation but it will lead to more Garda deaths and anyone who thinks it won't is delusional.

MEMBER12

Well put Turner, couldn't agree more. At least put it to a vote!

BronsonTB

MEMBER12 wrote: »

Why do the public need firearms? This not a Garda v Public thing, this is a Garda v Criminal issue.

Every member of the public has the potential to be a criminal in the eye of a garda. You are putting a big decision that could be made in a split second on their head. Near impossible to make up for shooting someone by mistake!! For both the garda & the member of the public. We (in the south) do not live in a complete warzone!

Still say no to arming every garda.

MEMBER12

I totally respect that you would vote no. I understand that, but there are only certain incidents in which a firearm would be drawn, ie life and death incidents. I don't want to sound corny here but I would rather have it and not use it than need it and not have it. I also live in the south!

BronsonTB

No problem with making more armed units available...Issue is with making every garda armed.

666irishguy

I'm for it 100%. The regular on the beat Garda is completely un-respected by the majority of criminals of all levels. Having a side arm would give the average Garda the intimidation factor they need. There's no reason why it would increase gun violence. From what I can see the criminals already have everything larger than a 9mm pistol anyway. Letting the Guards carry guns doesn't magically mean that everybody in the country will have access to a cache of weapons and shoot outs will be common place. The majority of people will see no difference in their ordinary life. I think we are living in a naive rose-tinted state of quaintness and clinging to some romantic ideal of higher thinking, if we believe that a largely unarmed police force is going to remain a viable deterrent to an increasingly violent and armed criminal underworld. As it stands a man with an axe, a large blade or even a shovel is better armed than the guard that may be called out to confront him for whatever reason.

MEMBER12

I agree with most of the post, but it is not a respect thing, it's the ability to do the job safely. I do not like the idea of waiting 20 minutes for armed backup, even longer down the country. I want a GRA vote and I want it as soon as possible, throw in a uniform update while they are at it. How do they expect members to operate in such an uncomfortable uniform. Just by getting rid of the tie you will save money.

Turner

While we are on the subject.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/gun-shop-raid-rifles-found-in-car-567280.html

Two rifles from a haul of at least 20 firearms stolen from a gun shop have been recovered, it has emerged today.

The weapons were found in a stolen car in Ballyfermot, south Dublin, last Tuesday - less than a week after the registered store had been burgled.

The shop, Wicklow Country Sports Ltd, in the Coolawinna Park area of Ashford, Co Wicklow was raided in the early hours of Saturday September 8.

Five men are believed to have carried out the break-in.

It is understood the robbers got into the building by opening up the roof.

Among the firearms stolen from the store were shotguns and .22 calibre rifles used by hunters.

Gardaí said that the two guns recovered were found in the boot of a stolen car.

No arrests were made and it is understood no-one was in the car at the time.

You can be sure they burgled this shop at that time at night as there wouldn't have been any armed Gardai on duty.

You can be sure that if an unarmed Garda arrived to this burglary they would either have been held at gun point or shot dead.

But sure its ok.

People dont want uniformed Gardai armed as they might feel intimidated when they meet them on the street and ask for directions :rolleyes::rolleyes:

MEMBER12

Nothing new here, it is becoming almost common place sadly.

Witcher

Turner wrote: »

You can be sure they burgled this shop at that time at night as there wouldn't have been any armed Gardai on duty.

You can be sure that if an unarmed Garda arrived to this burglary they would either have been held at gun point or shot dead.

But sure its ok.

People dont want uniformed Gardai armed as they might feel intimidated when they meet them on the street and ask for directions :rolleyes::rolleyes:

So the lads would have put down their weapons if the Gardai turned up with their own firearms? Come on...there is a good chance a Garda would have been injured or killed there armed or not...probably more likely to be killed if they were armed and arrived there. Nobody is criticising the Gardai here or saying their job isnt dangerous but carrying a gun will only make it worse not better. As it is now the guards back off etc...if they turn up with firearms then they're more likely to get killed. Fireams haven't solved these issues elsewhere and they won't in Ireland either.

Turner

Should we take all the guns off the armed units so ?

Or should we give every member equal protection? and arm them all.

Witcher

Turner wrote: »

Should we take all the guns off the armed units so ?

Or should we give every member equal protection? and arm them all.

How many times do armed units turn up to armed robberies? Not very oftern I would imagine...its more likely to be an unarmed member who have to back away..confrontation in situations like that will lead to Garda deaths and you know it will.

MEMBER12

Damn right they would have, they would be afraid to get into it with someone that can back it up.

Witcher

MEMBER12 wrote: »

Damn right they would have, they would be afraid to get into it with someone that can back it up.

Because criminals in other countries with armed police never fire back...come on lads ffs.

MEMBER12

Armed units always turn up, it can just take awhile, leaving the unarmed member without any support till then.

Witcher

MEMBER12 wrote: »

Armed units always turn up, it can just take awhile, leaving the unarmed member without any support till then.

I would very much doubt that armed units arrive in time to every armed robbery to catch the lads doing it. They're likely to be gone and no confrontation takes place so no Gardai are injured..give every Garda that turns up the capacity to engage the lads carrying out the robbery and Gardai will start getting hurt. All I'm saying is that there is a downside to Gardai being armed and that comes in the form of more of them being injured and killed in these situations.

MEMBER12

We are not talking about other countries, we are talking about Ireland, these scumbags are cowards, the only attack people that are unarmed and cannot stand up for themselves. They won't put themselves on the line.

MEMBER12

That is my point, they always turn up but maybe not in time. So what happens to the unarmed Garda that turns up, unable to protect himself or the public. Even if he keeps his distance and does not attempt to arrest, perhaps just follow, he could be shot just for identifying the scumbag.

Witcher

MEMBER12 wrote: »

We are not talking about other countries, we are talking about Ireland, these scumbags are cowards, the only attack people that are unarmed and cannot stand up for themselves. They won't put themselves on the line.

Ah criminals in Ireland are a different breed...I see..so criminals elsewhere are braver thats what you're saying? That no confrontation with armed Gardai and these people will end with someone dead? They'll just surrender...give me a break.

Witcher

MEMBER12 wrote: »

That is my point, they always turn up but maybe not in time. So what happens to the unarmed Garda that turns up, unable to protect himself or the public. Even if he keeps his distance and does not attempt to arrest, perhaps just follow, he could be shot just for identifying the scumbag.

How many Gardai have been shot in that situation up to now? I don't want to hear of cases from the 20's that are usually brought up in these debates. Links to articles where unarmed Gardai responded to an armed robbery and were shot within the last 20 years will do fine.

MEMBER12

I will be honest and tell you that I don't have that info, nor do I know of anyone involved in such an incident. However Gardai get threats from people with that ability on a regular basis. In my opinion it will be a matter of time, that is why I would like to see a vote on this. I take it you already know my opinion on this. I just want a public vote, I would abide by the result.