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Vitali Klitschko,the Greatest Heavyweight Champion of all Time ?

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    #92
    cowzerp
    Registered Users Posts: 10,549 ✭✭✭✭cowzerp


    Lewis beat a well past it Tyson and holyfield and no 1 else worth talking about, Bruno was well beating him only for his glass chin and Bruno wa rubbish.

    I think your the 1 lacking knowledge.

    Lewis was knocked out by McCall! And Rahman for Christ sake!!

    Rush Boxing club and Rush Martial Arts head coach.



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    #93
    raymann
    Registered Users Posts: 312 ✭✭raymann


    cowzerp wrote: »
    Lewis beat a well past it Tyson and holyfield and no 1 else worth talking about, Bruno was well beating him only for his glass chin and Bruno wa rubbish.

    I think your the 1 lacking knowledge.

    Lewis was knocked out by McCall! And Rahman for Christ sake!!

    if thats your expert analysis on one of the very best resumes in heavyweight boxing history then im going to bow out.


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    #94
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,820 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Lewis is ahead of Vitali. Don't mind Cowzerp who its clear just despises boxers who represented the UK.


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    #95
    Bobby Baccala
    Registered Users Posts: 7,341 ✭✭✭Bobby Baccala


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Lewis is ahead of Vitali. Don't mind Cowzerp who its clear just despises boxers who represented the UK.

    I dont think he hates boxers that represent the uk but i know cowzer hates lewis, that's a fact. I don't like lewis either but the man was a beast, what an excellent fighter.


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    #96
    Maravilla33
    Registered Users Posts: 524 ✭✭✭Maravilla33


    I don't like Lewis either and a lot of the time he bored me. That doesn't take away from the fact that hes a better boxer than Vitali with a better legacy.


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    #97
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,820 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    P4DDY2K11 wrote: »
    I dont think he hates boxers that represent the uk but i know cowzer hates lewis, that's a fact. I don't like lewis either but the man was a beast, what an excellent fighter.
    Well everytime I've seen a thread on here about and decent British boxer it seems he is saying they were not as good as the majority think. Whether thats Lewis, Calzaghe, Hatton, Hamed, Khan or anybody else.

    I'm not a huge fan of the last three named there and don't rate them extremely highly or anything but one thing thats consistent in any thread I've seen is Cowzerp shooting them down.


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    #98
    cowzerp
    Registered Users Posts: 10,549 ✭✭✭✭cowzerp


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Well everytime I've seen a thread on here about and decent British boxer it seems he is saying they were not as good as the majority think. Whether thats Lewis, Calzaghe, Hatton, Hamed, Khan or anybody else.

    I'm not a huge fan of the last three named there and don't rate them extremely highly or anything but one thing thats consistent in any thread I've seen is Cowzerp shooting them down.

    I also am a big fan of Benn, I was a massive naseem fan-I'm just factual about his limitations.

    Accuse me of prejudice like that again and you will be banned.

    Rush Boxing club and Rush Martial Arts head coach.



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    #99
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,021 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    When posters start bringing in the word "hate" to a debate it spells disaster. Sad!

    Anyway, Lewis to me is a better boxer than both Klits. I think he beats Vital 7/10. Vitali gives him hell, but the best Lewis beats the best Vitali most times.

    As for resumes: Lewis' resume is solid, and one cannot forget that he showed balls and courage to avenge both KO losses. That must be considered. He met and bet the best men in his era; some very good men who were peak men too. Not all peak, of course, but many. He ducked nobody, and to me, his resume and opposition is without doubt a cut above both of the Klits.


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    #100
    sxt
    Registered Users Posts: 2,734 ✭✭✭sxt


    walshb wrote: »
    When posters start bringing in the word "hate" to a debate it spells disaster. Sad!

    Anyway, Lewis to me is a better boxer than both Klits. I think he beats Vital 7/10. Vitali gives him hell, but the best Lewis beats the best Vitali most times.

    As for resumes: Lewis' resume is solid, and one cannot forget that he showed balls and courage to avenge both KO losses. That must be considered. He met and bet the best men in his era; some very good men who were peak men too. Not all peak, of course, but many. He ducked nobody, and to me, his resume and opposition is without doubt a cut above both of the Klits.

    You said Lewis was his best in the early to mid 90's . So you are including his fights against Bruno ,Ray mercer( a mixed decision result ) Oliver Mcalll 1 ...

    Lennox has a great legacy but when he can with knocked out with single punches early in fights ( In his peak) , that is a glitch in his resume.

    I don't think any of the "Greatest" would be knocked out with those single punches , I don't think they would have bee even hit with them


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    #101
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,021 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    sxt wrote: »
    You said Lewis was his best in the early to mid 90's . So you are including his fights against Bruno ,Ray mercer( a mixed decision result ) Oliver Mcalll 1 ...

    Lennox has a great legacy but when he can with knocked out with single punches early in fights ( In his peak) , that is a glitch in his resume.

    I don't think any of the "Greatest" would be knocked out with those single punches , I don't think they would have bee even hit with them

    Both shots were whoppers. Lewis to me was at his best in the early to mid 90s, yes. His whole resume is better than both Klits combined. Like I said, he avenged his KO losses, and that should be really applauded.

    Peak or not, if you get tagged real real clean by a whopper, you can be taken out. That has happened to other great fighters' too. BTW, I had Lewis winning 7-3 in rds vs. Mercer. Good competitive fight, but a Lewis win it was.

    Lewis could be boring, and for his size I feel he should have been even more dominant, but after the KO loss to McCall Lewis changed, which can only be expected. He was more patient, careful and precise.


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    #102
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,021 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    sxt wrote: »
    I don't think any of the "Greatest" would be knocked out with those single punches , I don't think they would have bee even hit with them

    That you can never know, so it's a moot point!


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    #103
    sxt
    Registered Users Posts: 2,734 ✭✭✭sxt


    walshb wrote: »

    Peak or not, if you get tagged real real clean by a whopper, you can be taken out. That has happened to other great fighters' too. BTW, I had Lewis winning 7-3 in rds vs. Mercer. Good competitive fight, but a Lewis win it was.


    Lewis could be boring, and for his size I feel he should have been even more dominant, but after the KO loss to McCall Lewis changed, which can only be expected. He was more patient, careful and precise.


    Same think happend to Lewis against Rahman in 2001 .Even worse than the Mcall single punch knockdown. His defense was absolutely terrible


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    #104
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,021 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    sxt wrote: »
    Same think happend to Lewis against Rahman in 2001 .Even worse than the Mcall single punch knockdown. His defense was absolutely terrible

    Yes, and he got caught with a whopper. Not sure why you are repeating yourself.


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    #105
    sxt
    Registered Users Posts: 2,734 ✭✭✭sxt


    walshb wrote: »
    Yes, and he got caught with a whopper. Not sure why you are repeating yourself.



    Watch the tape of the fight again , do you think Lewis was unlucky to get hit with that whopper? that it was completely out of the blue?

    Rahman shouldn't have been able to land and dominate a world champion like Lewis so easily. Gay byrne could have tagged lewis in that fight. It was an absolutely shocking performance. Unexcusable at that level


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    #106
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,021 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    sxt wrote: »


    Watch the tape of the fight again , do you think Lewis was unlucky to get hit with that whopper? that it was completely out of the blue?

    Rahman shouldn't have been able to land and dominate a world champion like Lewis so easily. Gay byrne could have tagged lewis in that fight. It was an absolutely shocking performance. Unexcusable at that level

    I never claimed it was not a bad show. We all know this. The man underestimated Rahman, and paid dearly. He avenged the loss in fine fashion though.

    BTW, if you watch the tape, I can't now, but I do recall it was all down to simple timing and chance. LL dropped his hand in throwing a shot, just as Rahamn delivered the blow. That is the nature of boxing. It can happen to the best of them, prepared and alert or not. Just as Bomber Graham, and some others,

    The blow was very very clean and heavy. That could have dropped many great HW men.


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    #107
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,820 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    sxt wrote: »

    Watch the tape of the fight again , do you think Lewis was unlucky to get hit with that whopper? that it was completely out of the blue?

    Rahman shouldn't have been able to land and dominate a world champion like Lewis so easily. Gay byrne could have tagged lewis in that fight. It was an absolutely shocking performance. Unexcusable at that level
    Thats only one fight. What about the two fights with Holyfield? What about the fact that he gave Mavrovic and Grant their shots when they were unbeaten, and gave David Tua his shot too.
    He went after the best, other fighters ducked him. And the two guys that beat him lost to him afterwards. He clearly learned from his ko to Rahman and in his last three fights showed that. He also beat Tucker, he beat Ruddock, Briggs and Mercer. He got in the ring with Golota who unfortunately made a show of himself that night by turning up late but he still got in with him when nobody else wanted to. Likewise with McCall who was an embarrassment but Lewis got back in with him which is important.

    Lennox was a class act in so many ways. Sure he got caught twice but he avenged both those losses. He certainly had the best jab I've ever seen from a heavyweight. He was a smart boxer too.
    People like to rag on about the fight with Vitaly and how he could have beaten him only for the fight being stopped. I don't agree with that as the fight was level when it was stopped and I'd have expected Lewis to win it from there.
    And even at that, Lewis was preparing for a fight with the much smaller and softer Kirk Johnson. Vitaly was preparing to fight Cedric Boswell. Lewis took Vitaly with only two week's notice which shows he never backed down. I'd say that given a full preparation for that fight that Lewis would have been much better. And Lewis took some big shots from Vitaly in that fight and stood up to them and came back and won 3 of the last four rounds of that fight before it was stopped.

    I rate Vitaly very, very highly but behind Lennox Lewis.


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    #108
    sxt
    Registered Users Posts: 2,734 ✭✭✭sxt


    walshb wrote: »
    I never claimed it was not a bad show. We all know this. The man underestimated Rahman, and paid dearly. He avenged the loss in fine fashion though.

    BTW, if you watch the tape, I can't now, but I do recall it was all down to simple timing and chance. LL dropped his hand in throwing a shot, just as Rahamn delivered the blow. That is the nature of boxing. It can happen to the best of them, prepared and alert or not. Just as Bomber Graham, and some others,

    The blow was very very clean and heavy. That could have dropped many great HW men.

    No, Lewis didn't throw any shots. Rahman walked Lewis down and threw a punch as lewis was backing away


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    #109
    cowzerp
    Registered Users Posts: 10,549 ✭✭✭✭cowzerp


    Lewis was been dominated by Frank Bruno, Was Ko'd by McCall and Rahman, and was been beaten by Vitali only for a cut, as much as people remember that the draw with Evander was controversial they forget that many had Evander winning the rematch as i did at the time, Lewis bored me senseless and I always felt he never gave his best, I think he is massively over rated but can admit he would trouble many Heavyweights.

    Vitali has barely lost a round! both losses where injuries in fights he was winning and that's from official fight cards and Lewis promised a rematch and then bottled it, he was 37, Vitali is 40 now so i genuinely believe he did not rematch as he knew he was up against it.

    Rush Boxing club and Rush Martial Arts head coach.



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    #110
    sxt
    Registered Users Posts: 2,734 ✭✭✭sxt


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Thats only one fight. What about the two fights with Holyfield? What about the fact that he gave Mavrovic and Grant their shots when they were unbeaten, and gave David Tua his shot too.
    He went after the best, other fighters ducked him. And the two guys that beat him lost to him afterwards. He clearly learned from his ko to Rahman and in his last three fights showed that. He also beat Tucker, he beat Ruddock, Briggs and Mercer. He got in the ring with Golota who unfortunately made a show of himself that night by turning up late but he still got in with him when nobody else wanted to. Likewise with McCall who was an embarrassment but Lewis got back in with him which is important.

    Lewis was like the French rugby team , he could be sublime and great but he could also be mediocre and he could be terrible. He was inconsistant

    Lennox was a class act in so many ways. Sure he got caught twice but he avenged both those losses. He certainly had the best jab I've ever seen from a heavyweight. He was a smart boxer too.

    He had a great jab but was sometime inconsistant in using it. He got out jabbed by a shot Ray Mercer

    People like to rag on about the fight with Vitaly and how he could have beaten him only for the fight being stopped. I don't agree with that as the fight was level when it was stopped and I'd have expected Lewis to win it from there.

    Vitali was ahead by two rounds on all three judges scorecards

    And even at that, Lewis was preparing for a fight with the much smaller and softer Kirk Johnson. Vitaly was preparing to fight Cedric Boswell. Lewis took Vitaly with only two week's notice which shows he never backed down.

    Vitali had only two weeks notice as well.

    I'd say that given a full preparation for that fight that Lewis would have been much better. And Lewis took some big shots from Vitaly in that fight and stood up to them and came back and won 3 of the last four rounds of that fight before it was stopped.

    Lewis was originally scheduled to fight Vitali later that year in December. He could have all have had all the preparation he liked. He told Vitali he would give him rematch , then he announced his retirement .I don't think he had as much confidence in himself as you had

    I rate Vitaly very, very highly but behind Lennox Lewis.


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    #111
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,021 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    sxt wrote: »
    No, Lewis didn't throw any shots. Rahman walked Lewis down and threw a punch as lewis was backing away

    Like I said I have not watched the clip, but from memory the shot landed due to pure timing and chance, which is usally the case with a KO shot.

    BTW, Bruno was not dominating Lewis, cowzerp. Bruno was knocked out too.


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    #112
    cowzerp
    Registered Users Posts: 10,549 ✭✭✭✭cowzerp


    walshb wrote: »

    BTW, Bruno was not dominating Lewis, cowzerp. Bruno was knocked out too.

    Yes he was, well in control of it he was.

    Rush Boxing club and Rush Martial Arts head coach.



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    #113
    barney4001
    Registered Users Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭barney4001


    how good would he have been in ALI,S DAYS


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    #114
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,021 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    barney4001 wrote: »
    how good would he have been in ALI,S DAYS


    His size and skills would have been very useful in any day. Vitali doesn't excite me that much, nor does Wlad, but both can box for big big men.


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    #115
    Maravilla33
    Registered Users Posts: 524 ✭✭✭Maravilla33


    What would Vitali fans say was his defining win?


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    #116
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,021 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Or his best foe?


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    #117
    sxt
    Registered Users Posts: 2,734 ✭✭✭sxt


    Maravilla33 wrote: »
    What would Vitali fans say was his defining win?


    The Lewis Fight was the fight that won him the admiration and respect of fans. This was the fight that showed his unbreakable heart,guts,determination, and will to succeed . All the necessary qualities to become a great champion


    Lewis looks stunned at the end of the fight, like he is in a dream state. I am sure it was the shock in seeing an unstoppable opponent fighting blinded with a disorientating eye wound, continuously taking his best shots and uppercuts .(that would have kO'ed most opponents )and responding everytime with the same intent and aggression.


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    #118
    sxt
    Registered Users Posts: 2,734 ✭✭✭sxt


    walshb wrote: »
    Or his best foe?

    I don't think it was possible for Vitali to have a foe. Vitali gave such a comprehensive and brutal beating to nearly all his opponents. The beatings he gave them were so bad , that they were pretty much career ending for many of them

    I don't think their are any opponents of Vitali that would have liked to step in the ring with him again?


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    #119
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,021 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    sxt wrote: »
    I don't think it was possible for Vitali to have a foe. Vitali gave such a comprehensive and brutal beating to nearly all his opponents. The beatings he gave them were so bad , that they were pretty much career ending for many of them

    I don't think their are any opponents of Vitali that would have liked to step in the ring with him again?

    I would have loved to see how he would have fared vs. Golota, Briggs, Mercer, Tua, Holyfield, Ruddock etc. I think these men were a lot better than some names on Vitali's resume.


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    #120
    Bobby Baccala
    Registered Users Posts: 7,341 ✭✭✭Bobby Baccala


    walshb wrote: »
    I would have loved to see how he would have fared vs. Golota, Briggs, Mercer, Tua, Holyfield, Ruddock etc. I think these men were a lot better than some names on Vitali's resume.

    Didnt briggs lose to both men?


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    #121
    Maravilla33
    Registered Users Posts: 524 ✭✭✭Maravilla33


    sxt wrote: »
    The Lewis Fight was the fight that won him the admiration and respect of fans. This was the fight that showed his unbreakable heart,guts,determination, and will to succeed . All the necessary qualities to become a great champion


    Lewis looks stunned at the end of the fight, like he is in a dream state. I am sure it was the shock in seeing an unstoppable opponent fighting blinded with a disorientating eye wound, continuously taking his best shots and uppercuts .(that would have kO'ed most opponents )and responding everytime with the same intent and aggression.

    Unstoppable? But he was stopped :eek:

    Its mad that Vitali's defining win was a loss really? As i always say I don't care what anyone thinks may have happened i can only deal in facts. Fact is Vitali lost. Theres a L on his record where it says Lennox Lewis. Vitali wasn't the victim of a robbery or dodgy decision. He allowed Lennox to punch him in the face till he developed the mother of all cuts and was deemed unable to continue. The fight hadn't even gone halfway.

    I agree the uppercut he took was awesome and theres no doubting Vitali's chin. I cant really agree with your answer though as it wasn't a win. Anyone else?


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