Vitali Klitschko,the Greatest Heavyweight Champion of all Time ?

sxt

I think there are many that would whisper that he is the greatest of all time including this commentator below. However, there are many more that would not rate him. There are many American publications that would not even mention Vitali as a top 100 fighter. I wonder if he was American ,would that opinion differ...

http://www.boxingnews24.com/2011/11/vitali-klitschko-the-greatest-heavyweight-champion-of-all-time-pt-1/


Apparently Vitali is set to fight his last fight in september at the age of 41. He has been heavily involved in politics in the Ukraine for the last number of years. His last fight will be in the Ukraine .His first ever fight in the Ukraine!
I don't think many will appreciate the talent of Vitali until years after he is gone.


Many will argue that Pele was the greatest soccer player of all time , like they will argue that Ali was the greatest boxer of all time. I would answer he was the greatest player for his time, . Pele and Messi would have been of similar stature . Everything else is in considerable favour of Messi , strength and conditoning , ( Messi is training against defenders who are bigger and better conditioned etc)

Would a fighter with the skills and enormous physical adavantage of Vitali Klitschko has trouble with fighters from a sport 50 years ago, would messi have had more or less difficulty unlocking defenses in the 60's...


I think it will take twenty years before people will whisper in public that Vitali was the greatest ever. I think it will take 100 years before anyone in America will concede that Ali can not be the greatest for ever...

Bobby Baccala

The greatest? That's a big claim, he's one of the greatest, in the top 10 i reckon. He'd smash up a good few previous champions i can think of, but he cant be called the greatest.

cowzerp

P4DDY2K11 wrote: »

The greatest? That's a big claim, he's one of the greatest, in the top 10 i reckon. He'd smash up a good few previous champions i can think of, but he cant be called the greatest.

It is a big claim but it is certainly fair to say that he should be considered in the small group of men who could lay claim to this tag-the fact some people are going as far as mentioning him as 1 of the greatest shows how far their popularity is spreading. For me he's possibly the hardest heavyweight to beat and could be the greatest.

Andrew Flexing

He is my very favourite HW. He has never actually lost a fight. Love his style. I hope he quits at the right time. I'd hate to see him or Wlad become the HW version of RJJ.

Scanlas The 2nd

He should get a lot of credit for remaining so good 35+. Look at Ali for example, he fell apart in his latter years.

cowzerp

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

He should get a lot of credit for remaining so good 35+. Look at Ali for example, he fell apart in his latter years.

He had early onset of Parkinson's when he had his last couple of bouts.
Plus with the knowledge of diet and training and rest and recovery it's not comparable.

Bobby Baccala

He's probably physically the biggest heavyweight champion i can think of, what height is he, 6' 8'' or something? He'd take a prime Tyson to the cleaners if you ask me, Tyson was a very short man for a HW, i cant think of a fighter he fought that was as big as Klitschko or as skilled.

Maybe big george would stack up against him, the George that fought Frazier. That Foreman was one of the most devastating fighters of all time, he went through opponent after opponent. And physically he was a monster, still not as big as Vitali though.... I'm struggling to think of a fighter that could have beaten him.

Halloween Jack

P4DDY2K11 wrote: »

He's probably physically the biggest heavyweight champion i can think of, what height is he, 6' 8'' or something? He'd take a prime Tyson to the cleaners if you ask me, Tyson was a very short man for a HW, i cant think of a fighter he fought that was as big as Klitschko or as skilled.

Maybe big george would stack up against him, the George that fought Frazier. That Foreman was one of the most devastating fighters of all time, he went through opponent after opponent. And physically he was a monster, still not as big as Vitali though.... I'm struggling to think of a fighter that could have beaten him.

While his physical attributes would have made him a tough match for any fighter it's hard to put him on a list of greatest ever when you look at the level of opposition. Who is the best name on his resume? Certainly nobody of the stature of a Frazier or a prime foreman. While you have to give him great credit for always getting the job done, while rarely being tested, it's a great shame for the boxing public and for vitali that he never got to test himself against the very best.

Bobby Baccala

I think he'd hammer Frazier into the ground to be honest, Vitalli would outpoint him if it went the distance with that jab of his and the only way he could possibly knock klitschko out is with one of those wild left hooks of his, he's physically too big a man for frazier imo.

minty16

Of course he beats Frazier. Look how Joe Struggled against Foreman, and Klit is even bigger than him! Vitali is definitely top 5. I dont think you could legitimately straight out say why any fighter would beat him. Ali has a chance, Foreman has a chance. I think there are a hell of a lot of so called top 10 fighters like Marciano, Frasier and Tyson that Vitali would disect fairly easily.

walshb

cowzerp wrote: »

He had early onset of Alzheimer's when he had his last couple of bouts.
.

You mean Parkinsons disease?

minty16

walshb wrote: »

cowzerp wrote: »

He had early onset of Alzheimer's when he had his last couple of bouts.
.

You mean Parkinsons disease?

Hahahaha

Bobby Baccala

I tend to mix up parkinsons and Alzheimers quite a bit as well.

walshb

P4DDY2K11 wrote: »

I tend to mix up parkinsons and Alzheimers quite a bit as well.

They are similar diseases, so it's of little suprise!

kryogen

Didn't we have this thread (or one very similar to it) recently?

corny

kryogen wrote: »

Didn't we have this thread (or one very similar to it) recently?

Its a regular occurrence on the boxing forum. Comparing boxers across generations is de rigueur.

walshb

kryogen wrote: »

Didn't we have this thread (or one very similar to it) recently?

There's probably five threads just worded differently discussing this topic!

Vitali is a tough match for anyone

I would say his toughest fights would be vs. Tyson and Foreman, peak versions of course.

gene_tunney

Vitali is damn good, but I rate Wlad higher.

Head to head he is a match for anyone, ever, but era for era I would have him maybe top 10 heavies of all time, not top 5 though.

gene_tunney

gene_tunney wrote: »

Vitali is damn good, but I rate Wlad higher.

Head to head he is a match for anyone, ever, but era for era I would have him maybe top 10 heavies of all time, not top 5 though.

I rate Lennox Lewis higher than both brothers btw, before somebody calls me a Klitschko nuthugger!

twinytwo

gene_tunney wrote: »

Vitali is damn good, but I rate Wlad higher.

Head to head he is a match for anyone, ever, but era for era I would have him maybe top 10 heavies of all time, not top 5 though.

is he though??... its like when tyson was bobbing around, there is such a lack of competition.The only half decent boxer he fought was lewis and lewis beat him. The fact he is still around at 40 just shows how bad the heavyweight pool is.

cowzerp

minty16 wrote: »

Hahahaha

very mature

kryogen wrote: »

Didn't we have this thread (or one very similar to it) recently?

And they just happen to be the most used threads so it is all good

horsebox09

What's up with people saying they're struggling to name a fighter that would beat Vitali?

Wlad, for one, would

Lennox, in his last ever fight, ripped half his face off! Prime Lewis does the exact same

Former middleweight Chris Bird beat him. Ok, there was definitely luck involved with the injury, but he was making Vitali look foolish at times, I image Ali and Holmes sweeping wide decisions

Tyson batters his body, that combination of explosive speed, power and head movement would leave Vit dumbfounded, though it would be a good fight

Vitali is a very good fighter, but he's definitely not the best, and nowhere near being the greatest.

And actually, how many ranked contenders has Vitali beaten? I assume the number way lower than most other heavyweights people would rank in their top 10

Guy:Incognito

Surely he should have to fight the 2nd best fighter (assuming we're givign Vitali the no1 spot) thats around at the same time as him before he can start to be named with the true greats?


Fair enough he can only beat whats in front of him but to the layman the only one on his list of fights that would also be held in the same bracket is Lewis, and he lost to him. Ali is known by everyone, boxing fans or not and most people could name a few big name fighters he fought. Will the same be said of Vitali? Sure in a few years , most people with a casual interst in boxing will probably be only able to name the 2 Klitchko's and David Haye as being the top fighters (most famous) in 2012 and between those 3 they havnt all fought each other.

cowzerp

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Fair enough he can only beat whats in front of him but to the layman the only one on his list of fights that would also be held in the same bracket is Lewis, and he lost to him. Ali is known by everyone, boxing fans or not and most people could name a few big name fighters he fought. Will the same be said of Vitali? Sure in a few years , most people with a casual interst in boxing will probably be only able to name the 2 Klitchko's and David Haye as being the top fighters (most famous) in 2012 and between those 3 they havnt all fought each other.

Ali's era, Boxing was huge-Boxing right now while does good figures is far from a mainstream sport-your nopt comparing like with like, Vitali in that era would beat most if not all of them and that's what i base my opinion on.

Guy:Incognito

cowzerp wrote: »

Ali's era, Boxing was huge-Boxing right now while does good figures is far from a mainstream sport-your nopt comparing like with like, Vitali in that era would beat most if not all of them and that's what i base my opinion on.

He hasnt even beat (or fought) the rest in his own era though.

cowzerp

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

He hasnt even beat (or fought) the rest in his own era though.

he fights all comers, Nobody would say otherwise, If your talking about his brother that is not fair to even expect-It's well known that he is well avoided and is always available to fight anyone bar his bro.

gene_tunney

I honestly challenge anyone to name 5 fighters who would beat prime Vitali head to head. And don´t give me any of that Chris Byrd crap.

Lennox Lewis beats him IMO. Apart from him I´m stumped.

Prime Wlad - maybe.
Prime Ali - doubt it. Ali never fought anyone even near Vitali´s size. Doesn´t have the power to KO him and won´t be able to outjab Vitali who is 5 inches taller.
Prime Foreman - interesting fight but I think Vitali by UD. Foreman beat everyone because he bullied them around the ring. All of a sudden he is the smaller man.
Prime Frazier - one of the most overrated fighters ever. Gets destroyed ala Herbie Hide.
Sonny Liston - quits on his stool after getting beaten to a pulp from range.
Tyson - interesting as well. Could go either way but I think Vitali by UD. Tyson can´t KO him early due to his chin, gets frustrated and loses by UD or quits late on.
Riddick Bowe - has a good chance as well but I feel Vitali would bully him and Bowe loses it mentally.

No point in going back any earlier than the 60´s; opponents too small.

So apart from Lewis, Tyson, Bowe, Wlad and Foreman have the best chance IMO. That said, I pick Vitali by a small margin over all of them.

BTW I don´t rate heavyweights in how they would fare head tio head. I rate them by era.

Bobby Baccala

I had a good think about it and i reckon Ali beats him, he's way too fast for vitalli, i think he'd outpoint him by landing combo after combo on him, he wouldnt KO vitalli though.

A prime Holyfield would be another good match up for vitalli, 2 very technical boxers, would have been an interesting one to see.

Maravilla33

Is Vitali the greatest heavyweight ever? Of course hes not.

And as for this hes never really been beat nonsense? Whether you like it or not hes been beaten twice. Once, Lennox punched him in the face till he was deemed unfit to continue. I don't care who was ahead or what you think may have happened or if you think there should have been a rematch. We can only deal in facts and the fact is there is an L beside Vitali's name for that fight. It wasn't some robbery. He was stopped.

Against Byrd he basically quit. He was cruising in that fight. Just had to stay on his feet to win easily. Fair enough he got injured but there have been others with injuries who have fought on and not thrown in the towel in a fight they had in the bag.

Guy:Incognito

cowzerp wrote: »

he fights all comers, Nobody would say otherwise, If your talking about his brother that is not fair to even expect-It's well known that he is well avoided and is always available to fight anyone bar his bro.

They both chose to be heavyweight fighters and are both on top of their game. It's just tought that they are brothers. What other excuse would be ok for someone to duck the next best fighter for their whole career and keep their belt(s)?

gene_tunney

Maravilla33 wrote: »

Is Vitali the greatest heavyweight ever? Of course hes not.

And as for this hes never really been beat nonsense? Whether you like it or not hes been beaten twice. Once, Lennox punched him in the face till he was deemed unfit to continue. I don't care who was ahead or what you think may have happened or if you think there should have been a rematch. We can only deal in facts and the fact is there is an L beside Vitali's name for that fight. It wasn't some robbery. He was stopped.

Against Byrd he basically quit. He was cruising in that fight. Just had to stay on his feet to win easily. Fair enough he got injured but there have been others with injuries who have fought on and not thrown in the towel in a fight they had in the bag.

Quitting against Byrd turned out to be an excellent decision. If he continued he risked ruining his shoulder permanently and his whoile career would be over just for one fight. Instead he lived to fight another day and went on to have a great career.

It shows he actually has a brain and an ability to think for himself. Besides, everyone knows he was kicking Byrd´s ass until he hurt his shoulder.

Maravilla33

gene_tunney wrote: »

Maravilla33 wrote: »

Is Vitali the greatest heavyweight ever? Of course hes not.

And as for this hes never really been beat nonsense? Whether you like it or not hes been beaten twice. Once, Lennox punched him in the face till he was deemed unfit to continue. I don't care who was ahead or what you think may have happened or if you think there should have been a rematch. We can only deal in facts and the fact is there is an L beside Vitali's name for that fight. It wasn't some robbery. He was stopped.

Against Byrd he basically quit. He was cruising in that fight. Just had to stay on his feet to win easily. Fair enough he got injured but there have been others with injuries who have fought on and not thrown in the towel in a fight they had in the bag.

Quitting against Byrd turned out to be an excellent decision. If he continued he risked ruining his shoulder permanently and his whoile career would be over just for one fight. Instead he lived to fight another day and went on to have a great career.

It shows he actually has a brain and an ability to think for himself. Besides, everyone knows he was kicking Byrd´s ass until he hurt his shoulder.

I don't disagree with you but I disagree with people who say he hasn't really been beat. He definitely has a brain but didn't have the courage in that fight that a lot of people would expect the greatest heavy ever to have. He gets far more slack than others who have quit..

gene_tunney

Maravilla33 wrote: »

I don't disagree with you but I disagree with people who say he hasn't really been beat. He definitely has a brain but didn't have the courage in that fight that a lot of people would expect the greatest heavy ever to have. He gets far more slack than others who have quit..

If you quit with a broken jaw or a sore foot then you deserve a doing, but now when your arm, your primary weapon in boxing is injured. With a broken jaw you can throw punches but not with a broken arm.

Maravilla33

gene_tunney wrote: »

If you quit with a broken jaw or a sore foot then you deserve a doing, but now when your arm, your primary weapon in boxing is injured. With a broken jaw you can throw punches but not with a broken arm.

I disagree. You have 2 arms. If someone like Eddie Chambers (who isn't known for being tough) can fight most of his fight last week with one arm then surely a monster like Vitali should be able to tough it out for the final 3 rounds of his fight. He was so far ahead he could have lost all 3 rounds and still won. I have huge respect for all boxers and especially someone like Vitali but he lost that fight because he quit. I cant give him a free card when others get slated.

candlegrease

Maravilla33 wrote: »

gene_tunney wrote: »

If you quit with a broken jaw or a sore foot then you deserve a doing, but now when your arm, your primary weapon in boxing is injured. With a broken jaw you can throw punches but not with a broken arm.

I disagree. You have 2 arms. If someone like Eddie Chambers (who isn't known for being tough) can fight most of his fight last week with one arm then surely a monster like Vitali should be able to tough it out for the final 3 rounds of his fight. He was so far ahead he could have lost all 3 rounds and still won. I have huge respect for all boxers and especially someone like Vitali but he lost that fight because he quit. I cant give him a free card when others get slated.

You do realise that Vitali just did exactly what you're talking about in his last fight against Chisora? He injured his shoulder in the 4th and finished out the next 8 rounds. It proves he can do it when it's necessary, ie his injury was far more serious in the Byrd fight.

Maravilla33

candlegrease wrote: »

You do realise that Vitali just did exactly what you're talking about in his last fight against Chisora? He injured his shoulder in the 4th and finished out the next 8 rounds. It proves he can do it when it's necessary, ie his injury was far more serious in the Byrd fight.

Whats the Chisora fight got to do with him giving up against Byrd? Fair play to him he fought through the pain against Chisora but that doesn't change the fact he quit against Byrd?

Vitali injured his rotator cuff in that fight.I've no doubt thats extremely painful but all he had to do was hang in there for three rounds. Hes so much bigger than Byrd he could have done it one handed and barely been hit. But he quit. PBF has went the distance with a rotator cuff injury. I remember Danny Williams fighting on and winning with a dislocated shoulder. There are countless others. Its a black mark against Vitali in my book.

Edit: Vitali got so much grief after quitting against Byrd he could never have done the same thing against Chisora.

Andrew Flexing

Maravilla33 wrote: »

I don't disagree with you but I disagree with people who say he hasn't really been beat. He definitely has a brain but didn't have the courage in that fight that a lot of people would expect the greatest heavy ever to have. He gets far more slack than others who have quit..

Who beat him?

Maravilla33

Andrew Flexing wrote: »

Who beat him?

A quick look at Boxrec will surely answer your question no? But seeing as I'm nice heres what I said earlier.

And as for this hes never really been beat nonsense? Whether you like it or not hes been beaten twice. Once, Lennox punched him in the face till he was deemed unfit to continue. I don't care who was ahead or what you think may have happened or if you think there should have been a rematch. We can only deal in facts and the fact is there is an L beside Vitali's name for that fight. It wasn't some robbery. He was stopped.

Against Byrd he basically quit. He was cruising in that fight. Just had to stay on his feet to win easily. Fair enough he got injured but there have been others with injuries who have fought on and not thrown in the towel in a fight they had in the bag.

So as you can see he has lost twice.

cowzerp

Maravilla33 wrote: »

Once, Lennox punched him in the face till he was deemed unfit to continue. I don't care who was ahead or what you think may have happened or if you think there should have been a rematch. We can only deal in facts and the fact is there is an L beside Vitali's name for that fight. It wasn't some robbery. He was stopped.

This was just bad luck and not down to been beaten-if anything this fight gave Vitali more respect, people realised he was the real deal..

The Byrd loss is a black mark on him i agree, but again it was a technicality

He has lost twice but i agree he has not been beaten.

Lewis not rematching confirmed he knew Vitali had his number.

Maravilla33

cowzerp wrote: »

This was just bad luck and not down to been beaten-if anything this fight gave Vitali more respect, people realised he was the real deal..

The Byrd loss is a black mark on him i agree, but again it was a technicality

He has lost twice but i agree he has not been beaten.

Lewis not rematching confirmed he knew Vitali had his number.

I've nothing against either Klitschko. I prefer Wlad but the Heavyweight division would have been a shambles for the last 10 years without them.

I don't agree with the Lennox point. Does that mean all cuts are simply bad luck? Lewis did the damage with punches, opened up a cut and then worked on it. It was unlucky for us as it stopped what was a great fight prematurely but Lewis won fair and square.

As for Lewis knowing Vitali had his number I disagree again. I can see both sides of the argument and at this stage any opinion is just pure speculation. Personally I think he should have rematched him but I don't for a second think he didn't because he was afraid.

Halloween Jack

Maravilla33 wrote: »

cowzerp wrote: »

This was just bad luck and not down to been beaten-if anything this fight gave Vitali more respect, people realised he was the real deal..

The Byrd loss is a black mark on him i agree, but again it was a technicality

He has lost twice but i agree he has not been beaten.

Lewis not rematching confirmed he knew Vitali had his number.

I've nothing against either Klitschko. I prefer Wlad but the Heavyweight division would have been a shambles for the last 10 years without them.

I don't agree with the Lennox point. Does that mean all cuts are simply bad luck? Lewis did the damage with punches, opened up a cut and then worked on it. It was unlucky for us as it stopped what was a great fight prematurely but Lewis won fair and square.

As for Lewis knowing Vitali had his number I disagree again. I can see both sides of the argument and at this stage any opinion is just pure speculation. Personally I think he should have rematched him but I don't for a second think he didn't because he was afraid.

Lewis was coming to the end of a glittering career, his preparation at that stage wasn't the best and he'd lost the hunger. Like it or not, Lewis is the best fighter vitali ever faced, and he lost. You could argue he had Lewis figured out, but I think a prime and properly motivated Lewis beats vitali, almost as big, good technique and defence and seriously heavy handed.

In fact, I'd say a thread about Lennox being the all time greatest is more valid (not that I think he is) beat vitali and a host of other (one-time) greats. Although he had a couple of very silly defeats, he avenged them and is one of few fighters to have defeated every man he ever faced.

Spazdarn

A lot to be said about Lennox's resume, but god did I find him boring to watch...

walshb

candlegrease wrote: »

You do realise that Vitali just did exactly what you're talking about in his last fight against Chisora? He injured his shoulder in the 4th and finished out the next 8 rounds. It proves he can do it when it's necessary, ie his injury was far more serious in the Byrd fight.

And Chisora was never ever a threat. Chisora was pretty useless that night.

Vit was beaten by Lewis fair and square. Had there not been a bad cut he could have won, but so could Lewis. That was definitely an in shape and close to prime Vitali meeting an over the hill, ring worn and out of shape Lewis.

Halloween Jack

ToiletFusion wrote: »

A lot to be said about Lennox's resume, but god did I find him boring to watch...

Yeah, thank god the k bros. came along and injected some much needed razzle-dazzle

gene_tunney

I agree, Vitali lost fair and square to Lennox. There was nothing in the fight but Vitali's cut was ridiculously deep and rightly it was stopped. It was a fat, out of shape unmotivated Lewis against an almost-prime Vitali.

magma69

Vitali fought one great fighter in his career and he lost. His record is **** compared to the likes of greats like Louis, Ali, Foreman, Frazier etc.

Vitali was unfortunate in that he fought in a very poor era and I think he'd be a tough fight head to head for any heavyweight but greatness is judged by achievement. The question posed by the OP is laughable.

magma69

cowzerp wrote: »

He has lost twice but i agree he has not been beaten.

So the fight being stopped due to injuries inflicted on Vitali's face from punches taken from his opponent does not equate to him being beaten? That's flawed.

MD1990

im not sure why the Klitcshko's are suddenly gettin so much praise
who have they beaten? nobodies
the reason there is no good Heavyweights from the US
is because all the top atlethes in the US are playing football

Andrew Flexing

Regarding Vitali's cut in the Lewis match, as far as I'm aware Vit said the cut was caused by a seam on Lewis' glove or tape that caused it in a clinch glove rather a punch. (i'll have to look for a reference for it)

walshb

Andrew Flexing wrote: »

Regarding Vitali's cut in the Lewis match, as far as I'm aware Vit said the cut was caused by a seam on Lewis' glove or tape that caused it in a clinch glove rather a punch. (i'll have to look for a reference for it)

He would say that!

gene_tunney

MD1990 wrote: »

im not sure why the Klitcshko's are suddenly gettin so much praise
who have they beaten? nobodies
the reason there is no good Heavyweights from the US
is because all the top atlethes in the US are playing football

Grossly incorrect post.

Football was around in the 70´s and in the 90´s, the so-called golden eras. Its an excuse made by Americans that all their top athletes play other sports in order to justify their current terrible crop of heavyweights. The fact is America nowadays has the highest obesity rate in the world and, consequently, is full of fat slobs. Bein a fat slob is not conducive to becoming a successful heavyweight.

Who have they beaten? Everyone they possibly can. The division has been cleaned out to such an extent that Vitali is resorting to fighting Charr and Wlad is being forced to rematch Thomson, whom he will brutally knock out a few days from now.