It's great to be unemployed...

secretambition

Stabshauptmann wrote: »

Thats a very nice argument. But it still based on the too-oft espoused view on this thread that people are only on SW because they are lazy.

Pick out the word in my post that I tried to emphasize by underlining, italicizing and printing in bold.

Stabshauptmann

Ok. Not getting anything from this thread.

The OP stated that he is frustrated that he is probably better off on SW than working.

Fundamental economics:
People will respond to incentives and right now we have too many disincentives for people in certain circumstances to come off SW. This needs to be addressed.

Examples include:
Young graduates, parents, minimum wage workers, those who wish to go back to education.

I dont necessarily think of these people as lazy. They are responding rationally to a flawed system.

I do not agree with treating the unemployed like slave labour.
A) It manipulates the labour market and takes away employment opportunities
It obfuscates the cost of SW payments to the Irish government and the scale of the unemployment problem
C) The motivation for it seems to be a resentful attitude where tax payers see everyone on SW as either lazy or a fraudster. I do not want to play to that false stereotype. I dont want to demean honest people.

In order to tackle our SW bill I suggest reducing the payments to the under 25s (with exceptions based on certain circumstances).
Capping JSA at a lower rate than JSB - those who paid taxes deserve more than those who havent.

In order to weed out the spongers I think we need to beef up the fraud squad, and have a more rigorous investigation of how hard people are trying to find work.
If a deciding officer felt you were not applying for suitable work, it should bear the same consequences as not applying for work at all.

unfortunately, all that's coming out of this thread is put the lazy cheating bastrds on chain gangs. Make them paint my wall and sweep my chimney. Its populous rubbish that's not addressing the serious problems our country is facing.

Stabshauptmann

secretambition wrote: »

Pick out the word in my post that I tried to emphasize by underlining, italicizing and printing in bold.

Yeah I know, I'm not a racist but...

Problem is, to tackle this "some" people, you would introduce a system that affects everyone. Its great that you agree that not everyone is a lazy good-for-nothing. The problem is that you want to make that the default assumption with your system.

secretambition

Stabshauptmann wrote: »

Yeah I know, I'm not a racist but...

Problem is, to tackle this "some" people, you would introduce a system that affects everyone. Its great that you agree that not everyone is a lazy good-for-nothing. The problem is that you want to make that the default assumption with your system.

There is nothing about my post that implies that I think everyone on the dole is lazy. There are two kinds of people on the dole - those who are lazy and those who are not. My suggestion would mean that those who do not want to work would be forced to and that those who do want to work and keep their CV in order would be facilitated. My suggestion allows the possibility that both kinds of people exist. There is no implicit assumption that everyone on social welfare is lazy.

Stabshauptmann

Ok, one last time before I go...

secretambition wrote: »

I think that there sould be 35 hours work a week in order to get 200 euro benefits.

Where will you find 35hours work for 450,000 people every week without manipulating the labour market and increasing unemployment?

How will those 450,000 people find work if they are busy all week working on your chain gang?
I know after doing my weeks work I dont have time or energy to even pursue my hobbies.

I wouldn't have anyone on welfare struggling to survive, but I would definitely make sure it isn't fun.

And the crux, its all down to ignorant begrudgers thinking the dole is a load of craic that they wish they were having too. Well, its not.

Answers on a post card, because this carassel is making me dizzy

secretambition

Stabshauptmann wrote: »

Ok, one last time before I go...



Where will you find 35hours work for 450,000 people every week without manipulating the labour market and increasing unemployment?

How will those 450,000 people find work if they are busy all week working on your chain gang?
I know after doing my weeks work I dont have time or energy to even pursue my hobbies.



And the crux, its all down to ignorant begrudgers thinking the dole is a load of craic that they wish they were having too. Well, its not.

Answers on a post card, because this carassel is making me dizzy

I acknowledged that we would manipulate the labour market, but I think that it's worth exploring.

The idea that you can't find a new job while you have a job is ridiculous. People change jobs all the time.

The ignorant begrudgers thing is just a personal swipe and undermines your credibility.

Stabshauptmann

Stabshauptmann wrote: »

Ok, one last time before I go...



Where will you find 35hours work for 450,000 people every week without manipulating the labour market and increasing unemployment?

How will those 450,000 people find work if they are busy all week working on your chain gang?
I know after doing my weeks work I dont have time or energy to even pursue my hobbies.

And the crux, its all down to ignorant begrudgers thinking the dole is a load of craic that they wish they were having too. Well, its not.

Answers on a post card, because this carassel is making me dizzy

I'm on the dole. I'm doing a full on FAS course at the moment. When I was properly unemployed (sitting on my a*se) I would have loved to have worked anything at all.

We're all spoiled rotten in this country. Well, the gravy train is over. Time to get up off your a*ses and do something.

Stabshauptmann

secretambition wrote: »

There is nothing about my post that implies that I think everyone on the dole is lazy.

You have a system to weed out lazy people (a stupid system, but thats already been addressed).

You admit that there are people on the dole who are not there because they are lazy, but once they have to live with you're chain gang by-golly will they get a job.

You see, that does imply you think they're lazy. Because you think they could get a job, but are choosing not to.

There are two kinds of people on the dole - those who are lazy and those who are not. My suggestion would mean that those who do not want to work would be forced to and that those who do want to work and keep their CV in order would be facilitated.

How would my CV as a pharmacist be maintained by saying for 18months I picked up dog **** in a public park?

My suggestion allows the possibility that both kinds of people exist. There is no implicit assumption that everyone on social welfare is lazy.

The "good" unemployed people dont just want to work, they want to do rewarding work they are interested in. You paint anyone who doesnt want to break rocks as lazy.

Stabshauptmann

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm on the dole. I'm doing a full on FAS course at the moment. When I was properly unemployed (sitting on my a*se) I would have loved to have worked anything at all.

We're all spoiled rotten in this country. Well, the gravy train is over. Time to get up off your a*ses and do something.

I have no idea what your personal circumstances are, but I have my own wealth of anecdotal evidence. Solid reasoning, logic, statistics (& sources) are the ways to sway me.

Stabshauptmann

secretambition wrote: »

The ignorant begrudgers thing is just a personal swipe and undermines your credibility.

No, I called a spade a spade.

I used the word begrudge because there have been too many arguments on this thread that were predicated on the notion that unemployed people are having fun, enjoying the sun, buying luxuries, etc.

And I use the word ignorant to describe all the posts that contend that there's work there for 450,000 people, that fundamental economics is "popy-cock", get the facts in relation to SW payments wrong, and stereotype the unemployed as lazy / immoral / unpatriotic.

It wasnt directed specifically at you.

secretambition

Stabshauptmann wrote: »

You have a system to weed out lazy people (a stupid system, but thats already been addressed).

You admit that there are people on the dole who are not there because they are lazy, but once they have to live with you're chain gang by-golly will they get a job.

You see, that does imply you think they're lazy. Because you think they could get a job, but are choosing not to.



How would my CV as a pharmacist be maintained by saying for 18months I picked up dog **** in a public park?



The "good" unemployed people dont just want to work, they want to do rewarding work they are interested in. You paint anyone who doesnt want to break rocks as lazy.

There is plenty evidence that there are poeple who want a job and could get some job choose not to because they consider whatever is available beneath them. I have seen numerous current affairs programmes reporting on how where a family getting €30,000 in benefits, the primary income earner needs to make more than this to make it worthwhile. This is not laziness. It's a sensible calculation on their part in a system that allows it. We need to change the system. Others who would work any job are often prohibited because of minimum wage laws and delays in getting back on welfare if it's short-term. There are any number of possibilities in attitude. Stop telling me what I mean.

Actually for a CV, any job is better than no job, but maybe you could take your pharmacy degree and lower yourself to working as a mere sales assistant in a pharmacy, which might look relevant on a CV.

I'm sorry but I don't believe that waiting around for rewarding and interesting work is a luxury that you have when asking taxpayers to fund your life. I don't know about you, but my sense of equality prevents me from saying that Johnny who left school at 16 with no qualficiations has to take a minimum wage job when it becomes available or his dole gets cut off because that's all he's good for, however Richard with the masters degree can wait for something "appropriate" to his standing.

Finally, I never mentioned picking up dog sh~t or breaking rocks. Stop being so dramatic.

murphaph

Stabshauptmann wrote: »

I am not familiar on any level with the German SW system, I cannot comment on it.
I have made my suggestions for how to improve Ireland's flawed system, and countered other people's suggestions.

If you were to make some suggestions based on the German system, I would be eager to digest and discuss them.

Upon becoming unemployed: 60% of average pay over last 12 months in employment paid for the first year no questions asked (capped at a limit not exceeding 100k). Then if you haven't found work you drop down to €359 a month with your rent paid on a modestly sized flat.

If you refuse certain jobs or interviews, benefits reduced. If you cannot find (possibly intentionally) work then work in the community will be assigned to you so you can give something back (at this stage your unemployment insurance payments are long used up so you are living off others at this stage, whether intentionally or not) to the people sho are keeping you fed and housed.

christmas2012

Laminations wrote: »

If your mother asked you to re-wire a plug would you reply 'oh mam that'd put electricians out of business, ring one of them'. Or if she asked you to paint the shed 'oh mam, that'd put painters out of work, ring one of them'. Or mow the lawn 'oh mam, that'd put those kids who go door to door with a mower out of work, ring one of them'. Why not?

Because its your mother? Well this is your country asking. Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country. After 2 years of the state supports giving one day a week isn't slave labour. And when was the last time you saw a job advertised like 'hedge trimmer wanted for public spaces. One day a week'. Or 'shop assistant wanted for Oxfam. One day a week, voluntary basis'. Maybe under the 'volunteer' section.

It'd kill off real jobs as much as the tidy towns project does.

WRONG...WRONG...WRONG...Listen up,if tescos were hiring for paid staff which they were,and a free labour job blocker like jobbridge came along,offering free staff,which do you think tescos is going to choose the free staff or the paid staff..It is schemes like this that create unemployment..

Here we have hundreds of thousands of able bodied people of working age,and they are being handed out for free by joan burton..When you have big business coming into town you hand out free workers?MAD and STUPID.

Another thing,there is no tax back in the recession because of this further driving the irish nation into debt..These schemes create unemployment blackholes in the most VUNERABLE OF COMMUNITIES..So no it doesnt affect just tidy towns as you put it..IN THEORY IT ALL SOUNDS VERY MUCH IDEAL UNTIL YOU SEE IT BLOCKING UP WHAT COULD BE A PAID JOB IT SUCKS PAID JOBS OUT OF THE COMMUNITY JUST RECENTLY THERE WAS A ''JOB'' ADVERTISED IN DROMOLAND CASTLE FOR A FREE LABOUR RECEPTIONIST,I USED TO SEE THAT JOB ADVERTISED AS A PAID JOB..SO DONT GO SPOUTING WHAT YOU DONT HAVE THE FULL FACTS ON..CHECK THE JOBBRIDGE WEBSITE FOR YOURSELF IF YOU DONT BELIEVE IT..

Markcheese

gerryo777 wrote: »

Sin City wrote: »

garda vetting was for working with the.vulnerable which you.mentioned.in your.previous.post .

paint av wall ?

take.jobs off painters ?

Can you imagine the noise from the SIPTU beards if the local council started getting people on the dole to paint walls/clean the streets etc etc?

Yep it would be pretty loud, although I was trying to suggest that people went out and create their own voluntary posts in something they have an interest / stroke passion / skill in . To be backed up when needed with a bit of training , Garda vetting ect.
Every town/ parish has a raft of sports, social and community groups, who could use a hand . Councils aren't going to be hiring new staff any time soon, but they're not going to be firing anyone either, so if they can give a better service rain, hail or snow... Then why not...

There are more people than ever in need of social support and community .. The money ain't coming from the exchequer... It's just a suggestion....

jiggawigga

The problem with social welfare is that we give too many people too much money for too long.

Stricter qualification system + less benefits + a shorter period of time = win.

Isn't it in ze Nederlandsh where you if you lose your job or need social welfare you get your previous wage matched for a short period and then it decreases as time goes on until you are on next to nothing?

gerryo777

Markcheese wrote: »

Yep it would be pretty loud, although I was trying to suggest that people went out and create their own voluntary posts in something they have an interest / stroke passion / skill in . To be backed up when needed with a bit of training , Garda vetting ect.
Every town/ parish has a raft of sports, social and community groups, who could use a hand . Councils aren't going to be hiring new staff any time soon, but they're not going to be firing anyone either, so if they can give a better service rain, hail or snow... Then why not...

There are more people than ever in need of social support and community .. The money ain't coming from the exchequer... It's just a suggestion....

It's a good suggestion, all I'm saying is that the unions wouldn't have it.

I got a warning for stating that a few posts back

Laminations

christmas2012 wrote: »

WRONG...WRONG...WRONG...Listen up,if tescos were hiring for paid staff which they were,and a free labour job blocker like jobbridge came along,offering free staff,which do you think tescos is going to choose the free staff or the paid staff..It is schemes like this that create unemployment..

Here we have hundreds of thousands of able bodied people of working age,and they are being handed out for free by joan burton..When you have big business coming into town you hand out free workers?MAD and STUPID.

Another thing,there is no tax back in the recession because of this further driving the irish nation into debt..These schemes create unemployment blackholes in the most VUNERABLE OF COMMUNITIES..So no it doesnt affect just tidy towns as you put it..IN THEORY IT ALL SOUNDS VERY MUCH IDEAL UNTIL YOU SEE IT BLOCKING UP WHAT COULD BE A PAID JOB IT SUCKS PAID JOBS OUT OF THE COMMUNITY JUST RECENTLY THERE WAS A ''JOB'' ADVERTISED IN DROMOLAND CASTLE FOR A FREE LABOUR RECEPTIONIST,I USED TO SEE THAT JOB ADVERTISED AS A PAID JOB..SO DONT GO SPOUTING WHAT YOU DONT HAVE THE FULL FACTS ON..CHECK THE JOBBRIDGE WEBSITE FOR YOURSELF IF YOU DONT BELIEVE IT..

If you don't understand the difference between community based projects that require volunteers and a job at tesco then you've missed the point.

woodoo

jiggawigga wrote: »

The problem with social welfare is that we give too many people too much money for too long.

Stricter qualification system + less benefits + a shorter period of time = win.

Isn't it in ze Nederlandsh where you if you lose your job or need social welfare you get your previous wage matched for a short period and then it decreases as time goes on until you are on next to nothing?

That's the way it should be. Drop the payment dramatically after 2 years. I can't for the life of me understand why the government won't do this. Some people on the dole 10 years are still getting the same as a newly unemployed person. Who has worked hard the same time that the work shy layabout was lying scratching themselves.

Joan Burton seems very soft too.

Laminations

Stabshauptmann wrote: »

How would my CV as a pharmacist be maintained by saying for 18months I picked up dog **** in a public park?.

it is not aimed at maintaining your CV. Incidentally how would two years unemployed and not volunteering 'one day a week' maintain your CV? It is not a temporary or replacement job, it is not there to benefit you (if you are long term unemployed) it is a community scheme that would benefit the community and give payback to the state (not private sector job creators like jobs bridge). After 2 years receiving support it doesn't matter whether you are jobless as a result of situational labour market factors or (in the minority) dispositionsal laziness.

As for finding 400.000 plus jobs - again they are not jobs - and duplication on a project isn't a problem. Plus it is only 8 hours a week. 10 people painting a wall that should be a job for one just means things get done faster but there'll always be things to do and maintain.

EDIT: actually 'volunteering' always looks good on a CV

Sean Bateman

RoverZT wrote: »

jungleman wrote: »

I had to drop out of college due to financial constraints three years ago. I'm now working in a minimum wage retail job to try and save up to go back and complete my studies.

I ventured down to Citizens Information this morning to find out if I was eligible for any kind of assistance whatsoever, even just rent relief. I was swiftly informed that no, I would not be eligible for rent relief nor for the Back to Education allowance. Why? Because I'm currently employed.

This time last year I sent out over 200 CV's and got two job interviews. Thankfully, one of the interviews went really well and I got a full-time job on part time hours, minimum wage. I never intended to go on the dole. The way I see it, I'm fit and able to work, and I'd rather mow people's lawns for a tenner here or there than get any unemployment money from the government.

So by doing this, and not taking the lead of every other person my age who takes the dole instead of looking really hard for a job, I have ruled myself out for any kind of assistance during college. I was basically told that if I have been unemployed for the last nine months I would be better off than working hard like I have been doing.

I think it's an absolute disgrace. In my job I regularly serve customers who boast about how they screw the system; how they get rent relief but have a partner living with them on the sly who covers the other half; how they fund nights out with children's allowance; how they have no desire to work because they have more benefits and reliefs than they know what to do with; how great it is living in a council house while hard working losers are straddled with mortgages.

It makes me sick to my stomach. Not only are they taking the piss out of people who have worked hard for years, only to find themselves laid off and out of a job, but they always seem to have so much cash to spend that it's burning a hole in their wallet. And don't get me wrong, I fully understand that people who thought they'd have a job for life have suddenly found themselves unemployed, many of whom have families to support. I am not lumping them into the same category as these idiots who have never worked a day in their lives and exist to claim any benefit they can.

Really, all I would like would be for people who work hard to be treated on an even keel. After I pay rent, bills, bus tickets and food, I don't have a lot left to spend on myself let alone save. The Irish government make me sick to my stomach that sometimes I am envious of lazy, piss-taking louts.

Stop whinging and play the game as well.

I hate these threads:rolleyes:

If your so angry quit your job get your entitlements and go back to college.

If not stop complaining and go here.

http://www3.open.ac.uk/near-you/ireland/

An incredible post.

The solution is to hammer welfare cheats...the disincentive to work must be eliminated.

Have you ever seen or heard of the Customs guys that investigate VRT fraud? They're incredibly diligent. Social welfare needs something similar. If someone's partner is living with them, they should be observed and then they're benefits should be slashed with judgements registered against them for any amounts claimed illegally.

jungleman

Wow this thread seems to have taken on a life of its own since my OP. My main point was that some people do fall under the cracks - I earn roughly around the same as people on social welfare. Yet although I have paid taxes, worked my whole life, and was determined not to sign on, I was told that because I didn't sign on when I had the chance, I won't be eligible for most support that might help me to complete my studies. Studies which I had to leave through the fact that I couldn't support myself, nor could my parents afford to support me.

The debate on social welfare is really interesting, it's great to see people on both sides of the breadline share their experiences. Most of you have done so eloquently and honestly, and it's reassuring to know that other people are in the same boat as me. It's also quite sad to hear of people who are willing to work but aren't finding the opportunities to do so. My advice to you would be to keep on trying - I walked Dublin for weeks handing out over 200 CV's to finally find a job. It takes a lot of hard work and a sprinkling of luck.

What has become evident from this debate is that the government needs to cop itself on and stop ignoring the fact that SW is being taken advantage of. They have released figures to prove this (I mentioned just one in an earlier post), yet are relying on others to do the dirty work by acting as informants. They could save millions by stopping payments to those who are guilty of welfare fraud, but instead choose to introduce methods such as USC and household charges in order to earn a quick buck. It's a multi-faceted debate, and I can assure you that the big-shots in the Dail aren't interested in any of what we have to say. Which is a pity, because until they live on the terms that some of us currently are, they will never be able to empathise with us.

woodoo

Sean Bateman wrote: »

An incredible post.

The solution is to hammer welfare cheats...the disincentive to work must be eliminated.

Have you ever seen or heard of the Customs guys that investigate VRT fraud? They're incredibly diligent. Social welfare needs something similar. If someone's partner is living with them, they should be observed and then they're benefits should be slashed with judgements registered against them for any amounts claimed illegally.

Good point. Why not bring in the guys from the customs to do the work of sniffing out fraud. Call them customs and welfare fraud officers.

christmas2012

Laminations wrote: »

If you don't understand the difference between community based projects that require volunteers and a job at tesco then you've missed the point.

my point is that they are being abused by the likes of tesco,for shelf stacker jobs,for free labour,those could have been paid jobs advertised,but the job blocker job bridge got in the way of that..

my point is that these schemes are being abused,ive seen it happen with fas too,i was a ce worker there,i know exactly what they are about,all very well if its not..these schemes go on to create unemployment..

but its everywhere,if you look at half the ''jobs'' advertised,you will see that they could have been paid jobs advertised as opposed to coming from job blockers like fas and job bridge,and i think it is such a shame,as the last thing we need in this recession in ireland is more unemployment black spots..

starlit

This is what I find confusing. Last week in the media they were saying it was better that people were on the dole than working as labour costs money just to hire one person and give them a job is costly for employers, explains the increase influx of jobbridge schemes not just by smaller businesses but by the bigger companies too. Not everyone is eligible for these schemes. Saying that other options have to prevail either find permanent employment which is hard to come by based on the recession, downturn and the high increase of unemployment and redundancies; emigration; go back to education or wait it out and go on the dole.

Not everyone wants to be unemployed many of which are unemployed not by choice but by circumstances. Its how things have happened for them. People can control their job hunt and how interviews go but they cannot control how an employer select a candidate out of a selective few who have been interviewed/gone through the recruitment process. 'CV/Qualifications get you an interview but its the interview/qualities/skills/experience/(what makes a candidate stand out) get you the job!' As something mentioned from the new blog entry by gradireland.

Fair dues to you for working and not having to fall back on the state for benefits. You have the will power to plough along and work. Not fair on the government to say things like that when in fact people are working hard when they are working. Different story for those who have never worked a day in theirs lives, they just don't have drive and ambition and just happy to be the way they are.

Some people are highly qualified and skilled, they want to hold out for a job that suits them but also they have match what the employer's are looking for and its difficult enough for the two sides to match making competition between candidates tough going. There are so many other criteria's people have to meet other than the typical things like qualifications and so on. If they don't meet the needs of the job as well as having certain transferable skills to be successful in the role, they will not be hired.

If they decrease the benefits fair enough but should be more of an incentive about working and going back to education where those who benefit it would get an increase of benefits, €50 can only get you so far on these jobbridge schemes, be enough to pay for one weeks groceries, one month of petrol. You be barely able to pay rent with the social welfare + €50. Is it even possible to make ends meet with bills, house, car and food alone? Is it really worth the hassle, be better to have paid job then!??? Even to create jobs alone costs money! Never mind paying employees!

Anna Nicole

Stabshauptmann wrote: »

You are confused because you think only someone on SW would be voicing a contrary opinion to yours.

I said I am not looking for work. What else might that imply...

Without re reading all my posts, it's possible I have written too often using first and second person pronouns, when I should have said "one". It irks me to be honest when one writes like that, so I refrain from it. For my part in the confusion, I apologise.

Sorry, my bad, I probably took it up wrong!

starlit

christmas2012 wrote: »

my point is that they are being abused by the likes of tesco,for shelf stacker jobs,for free labour,those could have been paid jobs advertised,but the job blocker job bridge got in the way of that..

my point is that these schemes are being abused,ive seen it happen with fas too,i was a ce worker there,i know exactly what they are about,all very well if its not..these schemes go on to create unemployment..

but its everywhere,if you look at half the ''jobs'' advertised,you will see that they could have been paid jobs advertised as opposed to coming from job blockers like fas and job bridge,and i think it is such a shame,as the last thing we need in this recession in ireland is more unemployment black spots..

A lot of those jobs could easily be minimum wage alone. Not fair like.

How long more are the CE's going to be around for like?

Very true, a lot of those jobs being advertised could easily be paid jobs regardless of the pay, it should be more than the social welfare + €50.

Guess the next budget is going to be a lot worse! This recession is crimpling the country as it is, it have to stop at some point!? Its bad enough that the Euro is becoming unsustainable! As if we as a country have enough to worry about!

christmas2012

another thing aswell whats worse is that these ''jobs'' dont pay tax back to the government via revenue,they take an extra 50 from welfare,these schemes that create unemployment are also an added expense and burden to the public tax system..

Laminations

christmas2012 wrote: »

my point is that they are being abused by the likes of tesco,for shelf stacker jobs,for free labour,those could have been paid jobs advertised,but the job blocker job bridge got in the way of that..

my point is that these schemes are being abused,ive seen it happen with fas too,i was a ce worker there,i know exactly what they are about,all very well if its not..these schemes go on to create unemployment..

but its everywhere,if you look at half the ''jobs'' advertised,you will see that they could have been paid jobs advertised as opposed to coming from job blockers like fas and job bridge,and i think it is such a shame,as the last thing we need in this recession in ireland is more unemployment black spots..

If you can't tell the difference between community based projects that require volunteers and jobsbridge then you are still missing my point. The former I'd support trialling, the latter I don't support and I think it's been a disaster. The unemployed shouldn't be used by private sector as state subsided cheap labour under the pretende that in return they get 'work experience'. Many jobs on that scheme don't fit the criteria and most others should be paid positions.

Jobsbridge is a different thing to what I'm proposing anyway (I won't speak for others on the thread). After two years a condition of you receiving full benefit is a voluntary day per week with a prrecribed charity/council/community group. You can choose not to give this day and have benefits cut. In other countries dole is reduced gradually the longer you are employed. This allows you to prevent such a reduction in the event you find yourself still unemployed after 2 years (but would not be a permenant situation). Conditions are currently applied to the receipt of sole payment (such as actively seeking work and signing on). This is just another condition that would only effect the long term unemployed and only effect them if they want to retain full payment. It is not intended to be work experience, training, a CV boost or a dig out for private sector. It is pay back to the community that provides the social safety net which you rely.

Two years is an arbitrary deadline BTW but factoring UN that people may be unemployed more than once in their lives it's likely stamps would be used by the 2 year mark.

Markcheese

Jobbridge seems to be getting a slating... Sounds like the vetting proceedure for jobs posted on it is ****e ,if they allow hotel receptionist and tesco shelf stacker on their list ...
In saying that my brother in law is hoping to get an intern position with the EPA , the work's dull and repetitive but 5 of the 6 previous interns got full time jobs from the contacts they made....

jased10s

Can we just remember that before wlefare you had to look after yourself to survive. There was no regular payments and you had to live of your wits or just plain hardwork or maybe a bit of luck.

I dont think anyones having a go at the genuine person that has worked very hard to get somewhere in life to suddenly found themselves on the dole. What they are getting at is a seasoned doler that has no intention of getting a job is getting the same payment as a professional that got canned due to the recession. And the sponger has not payed taxes.

The current system is a shambles and getting milked by thoes in the know.

I think a declining payment needs to be inforced to discourage the long term to stay on the dole and to also as an incentive to get work.

Also the community project work is a very workable solution if ( god forbid ) it was administered efficently ( not holding out hope in this country ). It would give a person a purpose / Pride / stimulation / socal contact / networking opertunitys / ect. And get things fixed around the communitys the council cant seem to do.

What would the cavemen / vicitorians think if they were around now.

Doles crap but at least dependent.

Is that a good thing ?