It's great to be unemployed...

jungleman

I had to drop out of college due to financial constraints three years ago. I'm now working in a minimum wage retail job to try and save up to go back and complete my studies.

I ventured down to Citizens Information this morning to find out if I was eligible for any kind of assistance whatsoever, even just rent relief. I was swiftly informed that no, I would not be eligible for rent relief nor for the Back to Education allowance. Why? Because I'm currently employed.

This time last year I sent out over 200 CV's and got two job interviews. Thankfully, one of the interviews went really well and I got a full-time job on part time hours, minimum wage. I never intended to go on the dole. The way I see it, I'm fit and able to work, and I'd rather mow people's lawns for a tenner here or there than get any unemployment money from the government.

So by doing this, and not taking the lead of every other person my age who takes the dole instead of looking really hard for a job, I have ruled myself out for any kind of assistance during college. I was basically told that if I have been unemployed for the last nine months I would be better off than working hard like I have been doing.

I think it's an absolute disgrace. In my job I regularly serve customers who boast about how they screw the system; how they get rent relief but have a partner living with them on the sly who covers the other half; how they fund nights out with children's allowance; how they have no desire to work because they have more benefits and reliefs than they know what to do with; how great it is living in a council house while hard working losers are straddled with mortgages.

It makes me sick to my stomach. Not only are they taking the piss out of people who have worked hard for years, only to find themselves laid off and out of a job, but they always seem to have so much cash to spend that it's burning a hole in their wallet. And don't get me wrong, I fully understand that people who thought they'd have a job for life have suddenly found themselves unemployed, many of whom have families to support. I am not lumping them into the same category as these idiots who have never worked a day in their lives and exist to claim any benefit they can.

Really, all I would like would be for people who work hard to be treated on an even keel. After I pay rent, bills, bus tickets and food, I don't have a lot left to spend on myself let alone save. The Irish government make me sick to my stomach that sometimes I am envious of lazy, piss-taking louts.

Laminations

jungleman wrote: »

I think it's an absolute disgrace. In my job I regularly serve customers who boast about how they screw the system; how they get rent relief but have a partner living with them on the sly who covers the other half; how they fund nights out with children's allowance; how they have no desire to work because they have more benefits and reliefs than they know what to do with; how great it is living in a council house while hard working losers are straddled with mortgages.

http://www.welfare.ie/en/contactus/Pages/reportfraud.aspx

Keep your head up

Laminations

jungleman wrote: »

these idiots who have never worked a day in their lives and exist to claim any benefit they can.

It is an unpopular suggestion that people should work for welfare entitlements.
http://www.thejournal.ie/dole-work-scheme-shane-mcentee-young-people-490365-Jun2012/

woodoo

Welfare bill is €20 billion per year at present. It needs to be cut drastically. Welfare cheats need to be jailed too.

RoverZT

jungleman wrote: »

I had to drop out of college due to financial constraints three years ago. I'm now working in a minimum wage retail job to try and save up to go back and complete my studies.

I ventured down to Citizens Information this morning to find out if I was eligible for any kind of assistance whatsoever, even just rent relief. I was swiftly informed that no, I would not be eligible for rent relief nor for the Back to Education allowance. Why? Because I'm currently employed.

This time last year I sent out over 200 CV's and got two job interviews. Thankfully, one of the interviews went really well and I got a full-time job on part time hours, minimum wage. I never intended to go on the dole. The way I see it, I'm fit and able to work, and I'd rather mow people's lawns for a tenner here or there than get any unemployment money from the government.

So by doing this, and not taking the lead of every other person my age who takes the dole instead of looking really hard for a job, I have ruled myself out for any kind of assistance during college. I was basically told that if I have been unemployed for the last nine months I would be better off than working hard like I have been doing.

I think it's an absolute disgrace. In my job I regularly serve customers who boast about how they screw the system; how they get rent relief but have a partner living with them on the sly who covers the other half; how they fund nights out with children's allowance; how they have no desire to work because they have more benefits and reliefs than they know what to do with; how great it is living in a council house while hard working losers are straddled with mortgages.

It makes me sick to my stomach. Not only are they taking the piss out of people who have worked hard for years, only to find themselves laid off and out of a job, but they always seem to have so much cash to spend that it's burning a hole in their wallet. And don't get me wrong, I fully understand that people who thought they'd have a job for life have suddenly found themselves unemployed, many of whom have families to support. I am not lumping them into the same category as these idiots who have never worked a day in their lives and exist to claim any benefit they can.

Really, all I would like would be for people who work hard to be treated on an even keel. After I pay rent, bills, bus tickets and food, I don't have a lot left to spend on myself let alone save. The Irish government make me sick to my stomach that sometimes I am envious of lazy, piss-taking louts.

Stop whinging and play the game as well.

I hate these threads:rolleyes:

If your so angry quit your job get your entitlements and go back to college.

If not stop complaining and go here.

http://www3.open.ac.uk/near-you/ireland/

jungleman

RoverZT wrote: »

Stop whinging and play the game as well.

I hate these threads:rolleyes:

If your so angry quit your job get your entitlements and go back to college.

If not stop complaining and go here.

http://www3.open.ac.uk/near-you/ireland/

I think you're missing the point here. I don't want to "play the game". I shouldn't have to. The point I was making is that too many people are playing the "game". As a result, people who need a small bit of help are just left by the way-side. Genuine people who work hard and who have no intention of playing any "game".

RoverZT

jungleman wrote: »

I think you're missing the point here. I don't want to "play the game". I shouldn't have to. The point I was making is that too many people are playing the "game". As a result, people who need a small bit of help are just left by the way-side. Genuine people who work hard and who have no intention of playing any "game".

Unemployed = need help

Employed = help yourself

It's up to you to decide which one suits your needs.

cristoir

jungleman wrote: »

In my job I regularly serve customers who boast about how they screw the system; how they get rent relief but have a partner living with them on the sly who covers the other half

Report them?

bobmalooka

jungleman wrote: »

I had to drop out of college due to financial constraints three years ago. I'm now working in a minimum wage retail job to try and save up to go back and complete my studies.

I ventured down to Citizens Information this morning to find out if I was eligible for any kind of assistance whatsoever, even just rent relief. I was swiftly informed that no, I would not be eligible for rent relief nor for the Back to Education allowance. Why? Because I'm currently employed.

This time last year I sent out over 200 CV's and got two job interviews. Thankfully, one of the interviews went really well and I got a full-time job on part time hours, minimum wage. I never intended to go on the dole. The way I see it, I'm fit and able to work, and I'd rather mow people's lawns for a tenner here or there than get any unemployment money from the government.

So by doing this, and not taking the lead of every other person my age who takes the dole instead of looking really hard for a job, I have ruled myself out for any kind of assistance during college. I was basically told that if I have been unemployed for the last nine months I would be better off than working hard like I have been doing.

I think it's an absolute disgrace. In my job I regularly serve customers who boast about how they screw the system; how they get rent relief but have a partner living with them on the sly who covers the other half; how they fund nights out with children's allowance; how they have no desire to work because they have more benefits and reliefs than they know what to do with; how great it is living in a council house while hard working losers are straddled with mortgages.

It makes me sick to my stomach. Not only are they taking the piss out of people who have worked hard for years, only to find themselves laid off and out of a job, but they always seem to have so much cash to spend that it's burning a hole in their wallet. And don't get me wrong, I fully understand that people who thought they'd have a job for life have suddenly found themselves unemployed, many of whom have families to support. I am not lumping them into the same category as these idiots who have never worked a day in their lives and exist to claim any benefit they can.

Really, all I would like would be for people who work hard to be treated on an even keel. After I pay rent, bills, bus tickets and food, I don't have a lot left to spend on myself let alone save. The Irish government make me sick to my stomach that sometimes I am envious of lazy, piss-taking louts.

Having worked the last 7 years with daily contact with a large volume of people I have yet to come across one person boasting about their welfare benefits.

I call bull****.

My OH works for the PS and her job is processing claims of welfare fraud, the vast vast majority of them turn out to be false or malicious.

Getting angry at welfare recipients because you're in a crap job is pathetic.

jungleman

bobmalooka wrote: »

Having worked the last 7 years with daily contact with a large volume of people I have yet to come across one person boasting about their welfare benefits.

I call bull****.

My OH works for the PS and her job is processing claims of welfare fraud, the vast vast majority of them turn out to be false or malicious.

Getting angry at welfare recipients because you're in a crap job is pathetic.

This has really made my blood boil. Yeah I'm in a crap job, and yes I'm angry at welfare recipients who couldn't be arsed getting a job because they're having a cushy time receiving every benefit under the sun. But you're accusing me of bull**** because of your own personal experiences?

On Thursday, two women came strolling into my place of work with pushing buggies, picked up pairs of Ray-Bans, and after trying them on said that when they get their next children's allowance payment they would come back and buy them. They didn't say it directly to me, I overheard them as they were only a couple of feet away. Why would I bull**** or make anything up? It would be a waste of my time and effort typing out lies just to publish them here.

Obviously you don't have a "pathetic" job, so congratulations on that one. Really, well done. Now why don't you take your condescending tone with you and troll around elsewhere? Thanks.

jungleman

That's not to mention during the sunny spell we had, when two women (one of whom was pushing a buggy) were laughing and joking about how they'd hate to have a job and miss out on the weather we were having. There are so many more examples I could give, but I'm not going to justify my original post by quoting any more of them.

cristoir

jungleman wrote: »

On Thursday, two women came strolling into my place of work with pushing buggies, picked up pairs of Ray-Bans, and after trying them on said that when they get their next children's allowance payment they would come back and buy them. They didn't say it directly to me, I overheard them as they were only a couple of feet away.

Personal anecdotes don't really advance your argument that there is a sea of people boasting about how great life is on social welfare. For most people it is struggle and those who do rip the system would have to be stupid to boast about it within people earshot. We have a whole system set up to deal with those defrauding the system but most people aren't.

jungleman

I'm well aware that most people aren't. I'm not here to rip on everyone who gets social welfare. Like I said in my original post, there are people who need it and who rely on it, and it's the people who use it and abuse it who not only belittle them, but belittle working people everywhere. It's people who use it and abuse it that are responsible for the frustration that not only I, but many other people are feeling.

Have you not seen the documentary last year (I think it might have been on tv3) about social welfare cheats? They are completely brazen. They go on holidays to Spain twice a year, drive flash cars and feel like they are doing nothing wrong. In 2011 there were 2.6 million more PPS numbers than people in the state - showing a huge amount of social welfare fraud. The system set up to deal with these people is not working.

antoobrien

jungleman wrote: »

In 2011 there were 2.6 million more PPS numbers than people in the state - showing a huge amount of social welfare fraud. The system set up to deal with these people is not working.

That would have been a good tidbit to include in your o.p. place to start.

Oh yeah - source please.

FloatingVoter

Expecting the post about the single mum that claims social welfare, who goes on the beg and sent her kids to uni and has property all over Europe (deep breath) any moment now...

...and has five bedroom council house

jungleman

antoobrien wrote: »

That would have been a good tidbit to include in your o.p. place to start.

Oh yeah - source please.

Phil Hogan released the figures at the Oireachtas Environment Committee. Source? No problem.

http://www.herald.ie/news/pps-tally-sparks-fear-of-massive-welfare-fraud-2823453.html

Sin City

jungleman wrote: »

I'm well aware that most people aren't. I'm not here to rip on everyone who gets social welfare. Like I said in my original post, there are people who need it and who rely on it, and it's the people who use it and abuse it who not only belittle them, but belittle working people everywhere. It's people who use it and abuse it that are responsible for the frustration that not only I, but many other people are feeling.

Have you not seen the documentary last year (I think it might have been on tv3) about social welfare cheats? They are completely brazen. They go on holidays to Spain twice a year, drive flash cars and feel like they are doing nothing wrong. In 2011 there were 2.6 million more PPS numbers than people in the state - showing a huge amount of social welfare fraud. The system set up to deal with these people is not working.

those documentaries are always sensationalist and rarely give a true idea of what actually goes on

jungleman

Sin City wrote: »

those documentaries are.always.sensationalist and rarely give a true idea of what actually goes.in
on

It wasn't sensationalist at all. If you had watched it, you'd see that it was just a journalist interviewing people who were committing benefit fraud, plain and simple. They were explaining how they do it, and the income they receive. The journalist told the viewers figures of how much money is stolen from the government as a result of this each year. That was pretty much it - interviews with the perpetrators and figures released by the government. No sensationalism at all.

Manach

When the Government funded agencies such as the ERSI as start to withdraw reports as they seem to contradict State policy on the benefits of being employed, ancedotal evidence such as the OPs become more believable.

christmas2012

were not all scammers you know..a lot of people have fallen on hard times,job creation is zilch,and there is no other source of income,dont tar us all with the same brush..

FloatingVoter

Manach wrote: »

When the Government funded agencies such as the ERSI as start to withdraw reports as they seem to contradict State policy on the benefits of being employed, ancedotal evidence such as the OPs become more believable.

In exceptional circumstances where the individuals concerned have 3 or 4 kids, qualify for rent allowance, and medical cards then yes. Otherwise, just cheap headlines in rubbish newspapers like the Irish Times and the Indo.
Statistics can prove anything.
If you're on your tod, or in a relationship with no kids - I wouldn't bother jumping ship yet....though dump the gas guzzler if living urban.

HOS 1997

christmas2012 wrote: »

were not all scammers you know..a lot of people have fallen on hard times,job creation is zilch,and there is no other source of income,dont tar us all with the same brush..

He's not though

I am not lumping them into the same category as these idiots who have never worked a day in their lives and exist to claim any benefit they can.

They are people scamming the system. There is a large number of people in this country who are worse off because they are working.

I sympathise with the OP as it's very frustrating.

jungleman

christmas2012 wrote: »

were not all scammers you know..a lot of people have fallen on hard times,job creation is zilch,and there is no other source of income,dont tar us all with the same brush..

I've repeatedly stated that I have no intention to tar you all with the same brush, and I've tried not to come across that way. Believe me, I know how hard times are, I know what it's like to carry a bag of CV's around Dublin to have them rejected one after the other, time and time again. The last thing I would want to do is accuse people who have fallen on hard times of being scammers.

But surely then, as someone who is a recipient of social welfare, you are also frustrated and angry at welfare cheats who suck the system dry, and who are pretty much taking the mick?

I was on the dole for five months before I went back to college. I applied for BTEA but I had to be unemployed for a minimum of 9 months at the time, afair. So, I didn't get it. Which is kind of annoying, when it happens to you personally. Though, in reality, you're asking for the government to pay you a wage for going to college, which would be nice but I certainly didn't feel *entitled* to cash in hand payments along with my free education.

hattoncracker

jungleman wrote: »

I had to drop out of college due to financial constraints three years ago. I'm now working in a minimum wage retail job to try and save up to go back and complete my studies.

I ventured down to Citizens Information this morning to find out if I was eligible for any kind of assistance whatsoever, even just rent relief. I was swiftly informed that no, I would not be eligible for rent relief nor for the Back to Education allowance. Why? Because I'm currently employed.
U
This time last year I sent out over 200 CV's and got two job interviews. Thankfully, one of the interviews went really well and Igot a full-time job on part time hours, minimum wage. I never intended to go on the dole. The way I see it, I'm fit and able to work, and I'd rather mow people's lawns for a tenner here or there than get any unemployment money from the government.

So by doing this, and not taking the lead of every other person my age who takes the dole instead of looking really hard for a job, I have ruled myself out for any kind of assistance during college. I was basically told that if I have been unemployed for the last nine months I would be better off than working hard like I have been doing.

I think it's an absolute disgrace. In my job I regularly serve customers who boast about how they screw the system; how they get rent relief but have a partner living with them on the sly who covers the other half; how they fund nights out with children's allowance; how they have no desire to work because they have more benefits and reliefs than they know what to do with; how great it is living in a council house while hard working losers are straddled with mortgages.

It makes me sick to my stomach. Not only are they taking the piss out of people who have worked hard for years, only to find themselves laid off and out of a job, but they always seem to have so much cash to spend that it's burning a hole in their wallet. And don't get me wrong, I fully understand that people who thought they'd have a job for life have suddenly found themselves unemployed, many of whom have families to support. I am not lumping them into the same category as these idiots who have never worked a day in their lives and exist to claim any benefit they can.

Really, all I would like would be for people who work hard to be treated on an even keel. After I pay rent, bills, bus tickets and food, I don't have a lot left to spend on myself let alone save. The Irish government make me sick to my stomach that sometimes I am envious of lazy, piss-taking louts.

I've never been on any benefits, a couple of weeks sick pay maybe, since I was 18.. I got a grant to go back to college in September 2011. I'm a mature student, and I gave up a full time contract to go part time and go to college.

Every other mature student in my course is on BTEA, all live at home with their parents, get book allowance, etc.

I lasted til February when I had to get a car, and I had to take a leave of absence and try and save up to pay for next year. My monthly wages weren't covering my living costs at all.

I don't even know if its worth my while going back because I'm struggling as it is and I cant get my full time hours back.. Im thinking of waiting til things here go the way the UK is in terms of student loans, which is upsetting because I dont want to be too old to use my degree by the time I get it..

Chin up, OP. It's not just you who feels that this is bull****.

jungleman

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

I was on the dole for five months before I went back to college. I applied for BTEA but I had to be unemployed for a minimum of 9 months at the time, afair. So, I didn't get it. Which is kind of annoying, when it happens to you personally. Though, in reality, you're asking for the government to pay you a wage for going to college, which would be nice but I certainly didn't feel *entitled* to cash in hand payments along with my free education.

That is true, that's a fair point. Just for the record I don't feel entitled to anything. It would just be nice if people were recognised in that they work, and might need a helping hand. Nothing major, but just a helping hand.

christmas2012

Anybody who cheats the system ie those who are working drawing the dole,or those who are claiming to be single mothers when they have partners etc..Yeah of course i think its wrong,but to have people that are fortunate enough to work pick at someone like me when their down is not on..I didnt choose the dole,i send out CV's and get a constant stream of rejections in this recession its not easy,theres bound to be more people on the dole thanks to no job creation and quangos like jobbridge and fas creating unemployment and sucking what could be a paid job advertised right out of the community..

Rasheed

Lads go easy on Jungle mam, he's not picking on every person that has is signing on.

Most deserve it and rightly so, but every one of us knows people who can work the system and I for one am sick of it.

I have heard people being delighted with themselves for all the hand outs they recieve and they are generally the people who were signing on when the economy was booming and jobs were plentiful.

These are the small minority that make it hard for genuine cases to get what's entitled to and blackens the name of everyone.

christmas2012

There should be a way to syphon off the frauds from the ones who are not comitting dole fraud,for example one who is working could they not have a joined up network of computers sharing information ,so the minute someone gets employment the welfare computer is notified..

Stabshauptmann

It is my honest opinion that if someone is better off unemployed than employed then
A)That is what they should do, and The system needs to be changed.

Infact, it is also my opinion that the more people who do this, the quicker we will get the change we need.

I am not talking about welfare fraud, which is a crime. I am talking about people who have genuine disincentives to work because of our flawed system.

Who falls into this category?
Parents. According to a recent high profile report, 44% of working parents would be better off on the dole

Young college graduates. They are currently earning 0 for 0hours, the dole is also 188 for zero hours. The minimum wage is €8.65. Lets say you get full time work, thats 300 per week. But whats the marginal cost? Well, you get an extra 112 euro for 35 hours.
A) You dont need the money, because the college lifestyle you were accustomed to can be easily maintained by 188 per week. I lived on 70eur per week in college.
Would you really work for 3euro an hour?! (Marginal benefit/marginal effort (300e-188e) / 35hr)

The rules about working part time are not based on the number of hours you work, but instead on the number of days. It makes sense to work two 8hour shifts, but not to take three 5hour shifts. Thats stupid!

Maybe you are considering going back to college. You could save the cost of going back to college, or go on the dole for 9 months and qualify for the Back to Education Allowance (full dole + book allowance).

There are other situations.


There are many people on the dole struggling, there are many who would be happier working, but there are also many who have no incentive to get off the dole, and we need to change that.

pool8

poor jungleman,your right to complain, although as said in other posts there is some genuine people on the social welfare and hate it. but in my own case my wife and i both work to make ends meet both up at 6.30 along with 2 young kids and not home till late. mean while a family moved in down the road on the social welfare. get a council house, fully decorated and insulated to there likeness. they have no intentions of getting employment or bettering themselves.
he tells me the other day he is going to the doctor for a check up even though he isn't sick.the medical card covers that, there i was a month ago having to fork out near 200 euro for my own kids who needed to go to the doctor on a couple of occasions. . thats me little rant over with. so in my opinion your right to moan jungleman.