Teachers and their summer holidays

vamos!

Just wanted to check in and see how the thread was going. Just back from a leisurely coffee with a teacher friend and heading for a mooch around the shops. I can buy what I want today because I will be paid more free money tomorrow. Best job in the world! I hope all the 'real' workers are enjoying their day in the office.

Boombastic

vamos! wrote: »

Just wanted to check in and see how the thread was going. Just back from a leisurely coffee with a teacher friend and heading for a mooch around the shops. I can buy what I want today because I will be paid more free money tomorrow. Best job in the world! I hope all the 'real' workers are enjoying their day in the office.

Sounds lovely, enjoy the rest of your holiday, get yourself a massage and a day at the Spa to really unwind, because when those 22 hours a week kick in it's like, so stressful

Foxtrol

vamos! wrote: »

Just wanted to check in and see how the thread was going. Just back from a leisurely coffee with a teacher friend and heading for a mooch around the shops. I can buy what I want today because I will be paid more free money tomorrow. Best job in the world! I hope all the 'real' workers are enjoying their day in the office.

Shhhhhsh! You know the union line, what you’re doing is called ‘prep for the next school year'. You're obviously newly qualified, you've got to learn to stick to the program!!

Rightwing

Rightwing wrote: »

People in the public sector should always be paid less than the private.

What an utterly stupid and blinkered statement. It makes absolutely no sense either. If people in the public sector should always be paid less than people in the private sector then you must think that a consultant should be paid less than a part time shop assistant :rolleyes:

Rightwing wrote: »

Parents want the childen in school as long as possible. Some don't care if they are playing tiddlywinks,,,just so long as they are in school.

If they want children they should make arrangements for looking after them and not be relying on the school to provide them with baby sitting facilities.

Rightwing

Maren Ashy Sarsaparilla wrote: »

What an utterly stupid and blinkered statement. It makes absolutely no sense either. If people in the public sector should always be paid less than people in the private sector then you must think that a consultant should be paid less than a part time shop assistant :rolleyes:



If they want children they should make arrangements for looking after them and not be relying on the school to provide them with baby sitting facilities.

A consultant in the private sector should always be paid more than 1 in the PS.

The reasoning behind this is, the terms & conditions are superior.

Peter Flynt

Rightwing wrote: »

A consultant in the private sector should always be paid more than 1 in the PS.

The reasoning behind this is, the terms & conditions are superior.

Privatise all the schools, hospitals, water, security etc. . .

Then you'll have to pay a lot more - and individually as well.

The teacher will be paid by thirty different sets of parents per week. The local Garda could be paid by all the neighbourhoods on the street.

Sounds like a great way to dramatically increase the wage of the public sector worker.

Foxtrol

Peter Flynt wrote: »

Privatise all the schools, hospitals, water, security etc. . .

Then you'll have to pay a lot more - and individually as well.

The teacher will be paid by thirty different sets of parents per week. The local Garda could be paid by all the neighbourhoods on the street.

Sounds like a great way to dramatically increase the wage of the public sector worker.

That's not what he's saying (I hope).

I'm sure everyone in the public service will put up no fight if they get paid a few extra euro but lose their benefits and pensions. :rolleyes:

To be fair can you put up an argument as to why public service should be paid more than private? As far as I'm aware this is already the case for teachers working in grind schools and the likes.

Peter Flynt

Foxtrol wrote: »

That's not what he's saying (I hope).

I'm sure everyone in the public service will put up no fight if they get paid a few extra euro but lose their benefits and pensions. :rolleyes:

To be fair can you put up an argument as to why public service should be paid more than private? As far as I'm aware this is already the case for teachers working in grind schools and the likes.

Teacher in Grind Schools are paid more than teachers in public schools.

Rightwing

Rightwing wrote: »

A consultant in the private sector should always be paid more than 1 in the PS.

The reasoning behind this is, the terms & conditions are superior.

There is no reason why a consultant in the private sector should be paid more than in the public sector. Apart from some grand idea by some people who appear to think public sector works are inferior and should be paid less.

There is no fundamental reason why anybody in any role in the public sector should be paid less than their private sector counter parts. Also most of the public sector can't be privatised, you cant privatise health, education etc. You can have a few private hospitals and private schools but you cant privatise the whole sector. It would ruin the county if education or health were privatised.

Foxtrol

Peter Flynt wrote: »

Teacher in Grind Schools are paid more than teachers in public schools.

Thanks for reiterating my exact point.

Care to respond to the rest of my post?

Foxtrol

Maren Ashy Sarsaparilla wrote: »

There is no reason why a consultant in the private sector should be paid more than in the public sector. Apart from some grand idea by some people who appear to think public sector works are inferior and should be paid less.

There is no fundamental reason why anybody in any role in the public sector should be paid less than their private sector counter parts. Also most of the public sector can't be privatised, you cant privatise health, education etc. You can have a few private hospitals and private schools but you cant privatise the whole sector. It would ruin the county if education or health were privatised.

Public sector terms and conditions are much superior than private (especially those who don't get any sniff of the public sector pension) as well as expectations on the staff. Taking the grind school example, do you think those who run the grind school will accept teachers showing up and half assing it (if I’m being generous) like they would accept it down in the local CBS?

Foxtrol

Foxtrol wrote: »

Private sector terms and conditions are much superior than public as well as expectations on the staff. Taking the grind school example, do you think those who run the grind school will accept teachers showing up and half assing it (if I’m being generous) like they would accept it down in the local CBS?

The mistake you are making is the assumption that all teachers down the cbs are half assing it and all teachers in a grid school are not. Which is total bull and you know it but want to get your anti-public sector dig in.

Teachers work just as hard in public sector schools as grind schools in general, of course there will be people not pulling their weight but it will be the case in both.

I love the way you assume everyone working in the private sector works as hard as they can 100% of the time. Loads of dossing goes on in private sector jobs too. Its very very difficult to fire people in the private sector, you cant just get rid of them like you think.

shane9689

countries fcuked so you decide to go pick on the weak/hardworking

Foxtrol

Maren Ashy Sarsaparilla wrote: »

The mistake you are making is the assumption that all teachers down the cbs are half assing it and all teachers in a grid school are not. Which is total bull and you know it but want to get your anti-public sector dig in.

Teachers work just as hard in public sector schools as grind schools in general, of course there will be people not pulling their weight but it will be the case in both.

I love the way you assume everyone working in the private sector works as hard as they can 100% of the time. Loads of dossing goes on in private sector jobs too. Its very very difficult to fire people in the private sector, you cant just get rid of them like you think.

Where have I said all public teachers are half assing it?

What I clearly said was that half assing it would be called up on a lot quicker in a grinds school than in a public school due to the expectations placed on teachers to excel at their job and this is one of the reasons why they should and are paid more than their public counterparts. If a number of students went to complain to the head of the school about the effort a teacher was putting in do you honestly think the response would be the exact same in the public and grind school, especially if their performance didn’t improve after the issue was raised?

I agree it is way too hard to fire people in Ireland but the issue is that if you don’t perform in the private sector you don’t get promoted or move ahead on the salary scale whereas in the public sector your increments keep ticking over, and unlike the private sector where you'll eventually get fired/demoted I've yet to hear of a case outside of gross misconduct where this has happened in the public sector.

Peter Flynt

Foxtrol wrote: »

Where have I said all public teachers are half assing it?

What I clearly said was that half assing it would be called up on a lot quicker in a grinds school than in a public school due to the expectations placed on teachers to excel at their job and this is one of the reasons why they should and are paid more than their public counterparts. If a number of students went to complain to the head of the school about the effort a teacher was putting in do you honestly think the response would be the exact same in the public and grind school, especially if their performance didn’t improve after the issue was raised?

I agree it is way too hard to fire people in Ireland but the issue is that if you don’t perform in the private sector you don’t get promoted or move ahead on the salary scale whereas in the public sector your increments keep ticking over, and unlike the private sector where you'll eventually get fired/demoted I've yet to hear of a case outside of gross misconduct where this has happened in the public sector.

Rightwing

Peter Flynt wrote: »

Privatise all the schools, hospitals, water, security etc. . .

Then you'll have to pay a lot more - and individually as well.

The teacher will be paid by thirty different sets of parents per week. The local Garda could be paid by all the neighbourhoods on the street.

Sounds like a great way to dramatically increase the wage of the public sector worker.

Water won't be privatised, but we will still be paying big for it.
Hospitals, we'll be paying VHI and ending up in a system that little if no benefits.

Wages,,,,that's where the money is going, not services.

monkeysnapper

I think it's so funny this thread started well over a year ago and it was such a heated thread, it fizzled out and started again over a year after last post was writen and it kicked off same as if it never ended . Classic !!

My opinion? I think they deserve every cent they get.

Foxtrol

Peter Flynt wrote: »

I'm actually really hoping that the posters here defending teachers holidays are not teachers themselves as the level of debate and discussion that 95% of them are able for is an embarrassment, this being an example. I pray none of them are ever within a hundred miles of teaching a child of mine.

Peter Flynt

Rightwing wrote: »

Water won't be privatised, but we will still be paying big for it.
Hospitals, we'll be paying VHI and ending up in a system that little if no benefits.

Wages,,,,that's where the money is going, not services.

I dunno - I had surgery in hospital earlier this year. I went through the public system as I had no choice (due to pay cuts).

The service was superb.

Rightwing

Maren Ashy Sarsaparilla wrote: »

There is no reason why a consultant in the private sector should be paid more than in the public sector. Apart from some grand idea by some people who appear to think public sector works are inferior and should be paid less.

There is no fundamental reason why anybody in any role in the public sector should be paid less than their private sector counter parts. Also most of the public sector can't be privatised, you cant privatise health, education etc. You can have a few private hospitals and private schools but you cant privatise the whole sector. It would ruin the county if education or health were privatised.

Take an office worker in the PS.

They can claim 1 day a month by working time up. I don't know of too many private sector companies that give this 'perk'.

Peter Flynt

Foxtrol wrote: »

I'm actually really hoping that the posters here defending teachers holidays are not teachers themselves as the level of debate and discussion that 95% of them are able for is an embarrassment, this being an example. I pray none of them are ever within a hundred miles of teaching a child of mine.

We get the message . . . Public Sector = Bad, Private Sector = Good.

Never heard that one before.

Incidentally many of the notorious grind schools you love close in mid May for the Summer and resume around mid September.

Rightwing

Peter Flynt wrote: »

I dunno - I had surgery in hospital earlier this year. I went through the public system as I had no choice (due to pay cuts).

The service was superb.

Good to hear that.

I was in hospital a while back and ended up in a public ward,,,,what's my VHI for ?
No wonder so many are leaving it.

Ave Sodalis

I think teachers should be paid on performance. I don't think it's fair that a successful teacher who cares about the kids education and makes the effort for the kids to learn is getting the same pay as ones who come in and work just for their pay check. The difference in the standard of the two is amazing. Teachers that care, make a difference... But don't get anymore recognition than those that don't really give a damn.
I know teachers can stop caring after years, which is why the system in the Netherlands is brilliant. They assess the teachers every year, and those who don't want to teach anymore are re-educated for another job. Only teachers that care are teaching and the importance of education is recognised. Due to this, they have a very low drop out rate.

Peter Flynt

Rightwing wrote: »

Good to hear that.

I was in hospital a while back and ended up in a public ward,,,,what's my VHI for ?
No wonder so many are leaving it.

That's not the problem with the service.

That's the insurance companies ripping people off.

I badly broke a finger in my right hand - Within an hour at the hospital I'd seen a nurse, a radiographer, a doctor at about 11-12 PM at night. I had to wait overnight for the surgeons to come in . . . They did the surgery the next day.

I had to be x-rayed a week later. It was recommended that I do surgery again as the bones were not coming together. It was done the next day by a number of dedicated professional surgeons, anaesthetists and nurses.

Superb public service.

tigger123

Rightwing wrote: »

Take an office worker in the PS.

They can claim 1 day a month by working time up. I don't know of too many private sector companies that give this 'perk'.

I've worked for Private Sector companies that (amongst other perks) operate a flexi time system and allow you to take a flexi day per month. It's not that unusual.

Rightwing

Rightwing wrote: »

Take an office worker in the PS.

They can claim 1 day a month by working time up. I don't know of too many private sector companies that give this 'perk'.

What's the problem with claiming a day if they work the time up?

I think its more common in the private sector than you think.

I know of a few companies who work an extra hour everyday and get a half day every Friday for instance. I know people who if they work extra hours they get the the hours off again when they want them. I know people who put in extra hours coming up to a deadline which they just take back themselves unofficially when things quieten down etc etc.

Its extremely common, I'd actually say its much more common in the private sector as a lot of public sector jobs wouldn't be suitable for this type of arrangement.

Maximus Alexander

Who in their right mind would embark on a career where they were only guaranteed pay 9 months of the year? You'd end up having to pay more for those 9 months to attract people, so what's the difference?

And this is coming from a tax paying, private sector worker who is sick with jealousy at their 3 months paid holidays.

Rightwing

Peter Flynt wrote: »

That's not the problem with the service.

That's the insurance companies ripping people off.

I badly broke a finger in my right hand - Within an hour at the hospital I'd seen a nurse, a radiographer, a doctor at about 11-12 PM at night. I had to wait overnight for the surgeons to come in . . . They did the surgery the next day.

I had to be x-rayed a week later. It was recommended that I do surgery again as the bones were not coming together. It was done the next day by a number of dedicated professional surgeons, anaesthetists and nurses.

Superb public service.

I think the problem here is to do with consultants. Working in the public sector, but also seeing patients privately. Whatever about teachers, health really needs to be looked at.

Foxtrol

Peter Flynt wrote: »

We get the message . . . Public Sector = Bad, Private Sector = Good.

Never heard that one before.

The point was raised that public sector should be paid the same as private sector, I explained the reasons why I disagree and the only response I get is a ‘witty’ video rather than actual discussion or retort. This has happened over and over again here, sometimes with some variety of ‘you’re just a begrudger’ comment instead. It either shows massive immaturity or inability to actually defend any of the points made.

Incidentally many of the notorious grind schools you love close in mid May for the Summer and resume around mid September.

So they get their students to perform better with the same length in school. Maybe the public schools should stay open for longer so they can get a chance to catch up… :rolleyes:

Peter Flynt

Foxtrol wrote: »

So they get their students to perform better with the same length in school:

Where's your evidence of that?

"same length' in school . . .Only they're not the same length in school. I thought I made that clear. They do less hours in the grinds schools as they are closed for a month longer.

Here's a prominent grinds school - School begins 09 September and classes end on 14 May.

http://ioe.ie/6th-year/6th-year-calendar