Cyberpunk - CD Project Red

klose

Mad how games ship with so much work needed to be done but that's just how it is these days unfortunately, be like going to the cinema and there's still green screens in the background with their effects not done yet.

Have it downloading on my day one ps4, I imagine it will sound like an F15 jet when it runs it so good thing I've a good set of headphones.

Dcully

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

I wonder how my old i7 6700k + 1080ti will run this at 1440p or 4k, would i be better off buying it on standard ps4 or stadia. Was hoping to have a ps5 or new GPU, but they can't be got.

Thats still a good PC why put it down so much?
1080ti in particular is still excellent.

klose

Love skillups reviews yeah, one of the more interesting things I find about reviews is how a 7 seems to be regarded as average when in reality a 5 should be "average" unless its 8+ its deemed poor?

Markitron

The Phantom Pain wrote: »

Something that's frequently coming up in reviews: like the Witcher 3, the side quests are the real star of this game, not the main story. Due to how late CDPR sent out review codes reviewers were not playing the game the best possible way to experience it and instead were rushing through the main quests hence why reviews, outside of bugs, aren't as glowing. I'd imagine that if they had been given more time with it some of the issues people had with the story wouldn't be as bad. seeing as they said a the side quests affects the ending.

I predict a late 80s metacritic.
I'm really excited for the console reviews and I'm particularly excited for SkillUp and Jim Sterling reviews albeit for more sinister reasons.

I used to quite like Jim, the podcast in particular, but he fairly accurately represents everything I hate about gaming and YouTube culture: Constant moaning about anything and everything.

klose wrote: »

Love skillups reviews yeah, one of the more interesting things I find about reviews is how a 7 seems to be regarded as average when in reality a 5 should be "average" unless its 8+ its deemed poor?

This is a problem with games media in general, and it stems from the fact that they are mostly PR for the publishers. They never use the full scale.

SomeSayKos

Markitron wrote: »

I used to quite like Jim, the podcast in particular, but he fairly accurately represents everything I hate about gaming and YouTube culture: Constant moaning about anything and everything.
.

Yeah, I used to be into that stuff a few years ago but now it just seems like they're all grifters who perpetuate manufactured outrage and negativity for money. The Quivering is a prime example of this or Angry Joe, YongYea to a degree etc. It just seems really boring to me now.
I guess I'm mellowing out in my old age :P

Parabellum9

SomeSayKos wrote: »

Yeah, I used to be into that stuff a few years ago but now it just seems like they're all grifters who perpetuate manufactured outrage and negativity for money. The Quivering is a prime example of this or Angry Joe, YongYea to a degree etc. It just seems really boring to me now.
I guess I'm mellowing out in my old age :P

I’m the same - I used to enjoy The Quartering but you eventually realise he’s a perpetual moaning machine, just constant negativity. Stopped watching Joe ages ago - find the whole “acted” parts he does in his reviews cringy as ****.

johnny_ultimate

The absolute focus on Metacritic is a deep problem with how we judge success and quality in gaming. Even more so because Metacritic itself is fundamentally broken in many ways, and not just the car crash user reviews. Every single time a AAA game comes out, unless it's an abject disaster (a 75, in other words ), a big stream of no-name sites is guaranteed to dish out 9s and 10s. There's some foreign language outlets, which are perfectly deserving of a spot, but then just a bunch blogs and fan sites that gush about everything and you only ever hear about due to their metacritic placement.

Given so many publications have moved away from review scores entirely and with a shift to the like of YouTube, the current random bunch of outlets selected to actually decide a MC score just creates a lot of 'positive' noise in the system and will almost always skew higher than the general perception of the game.

Carfacemandog

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

I wonder how my old i7 6700k + 1080ti will run this at 1440p or 4k, would i be better off buying it on standard ps4 or stadia. Was hoping to have a ps5 or new GPU, but they can't be got.

Same here, I'm in a Gtx 970 and ryzen 2200g - I don't mind reducing settings but it's been a reeeeally frustrating few months asi was hoping to get a 30XX upgrade and ryzen 3600 or thereabouts, but prices have been sky high when anything has even been available (especially on the GPU front).

titan18

Homelander wrote: »

The framedrops aren't due to the GPU, they are due to the CPU.

The graphics processors in the base Xbox One and PS4, and certainly the One X and PS4P, are fairly OK for consistent performance at various levels.

The Jaguar CPU is the problem. It was low-end in 2013, so you can imagine that it's incredibly difficult to work with in 2020 for a huge open world game.

Fallout 4 from 2015 had the same problem. Tons of framerate issues, because the CPU's were strangling the consoles.

Regardless of how buggy it is, saying it deserves to fail because they can't magically make a hugely complex open world game run well on a low-end processor from 2013 is a bit unfair.

It's not a case of they didn't optimise, they just can't really. They can only do the best they can, which is aim for 30fps and accept that drops and stutters will happen.

Tbf, there's a big difference between some framerate drops and it being unplayable. Likes of RDR2, Horizon, GTA, Witcher 3, Spiderman, even the Bethesda bugfests of Skryim and Fallout are all playable despite being complex open world games. Maybe Cyberpunk is grand too, but what I was saying is that if CD Projekt Red did a Crysis on it where it was unplayable on nearly everything bar the best hardware, then it would deserve to fail imo.

Game was in development long enough that it should be built for the consoles with the biggest userbases not for PS5 and Series X.

Jordan 199

Parabellum9 wrote: »

The Quartering

*shudders*

Azza

titan18 wrote: »

Tbf, there's a big difference between some framerate drops and it being unplayable. Likes of RDR2, Horizon, GTA, Witcher 3, Spiderman, even the Bethesda bugfests of Skryim and Fallout are all playable despite being complex open world games. Maybe Cyberpunk is grand too, but what I was saying is that if CD Projekt Red did a Crysis on it where it was unplayable on nearly everything bar the best hardware, then it would deserve to fail imo.

Game was in development long enough that it should be built for the consoles with the biggest userbases not for PS5 and Series X.

Not to take it off this thread off topic but Crysis was playable on lower spec hardware, it was just people refused to turn the setting down to playable levels at the time of its release.

Markitron

Azza wrote: »

Not to take it off this thread off topic but Crysis was playable on lower spec hardware, it was just people refused to turn the setting down to playable levels at the time of its release.

This is my recollection too. People that spent a lot of money on their hardware went mental when they had to turn a single setting down.

SomeSayKos

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

The absolute focus on Metacritic is a deep problem with how we judge success and quality in gaming. Even more so because Metacritic itself is fundamentally broken in many ways, and not just the car crash user reviews. Every single time a AAA game comes out, unless it's an abject disaster (a 75, in other words ), a big stream of no-name sites is guaranteed to dish out 9s and 10s. There's some foreign language outlets, which are perfectly deserving of a spot, but then just a bunch blogs and fan sites that gush about everything and you only ever hear about due to their metacritic placement.

Given so many publications have moved away from review scores entirely and with a shift to the like of YouTube, the current random bunch of outlets selected to actually decide a MC score just creates a lot of 'positive' noise in the system and will almost always skew higher than the general perception of the game.

I can honestly say I've never really paid any attention to Metacritic at all. I find review scores too arbitrary and they never really factor into my decision making on whether to buy a game or not. If a game intrigues me for whatever reason I'll just buy it and find out for myself.

I do enjoy reviews for the critical analysis and discourse, and there are certain publications/channels that I will read/watch but the reviews themselves don't really affect my decision to take the plunge on a game. At best they'll make me aware of a game that might not have been on my radar because there's just so many games these days but that's really the extent of it.

For example, there are some games that are beloved by critics but when I played them they just did not click for me at all. Witcher 3 springs to mind.

McFly85

Tried to start the pre install on the PS5 but I’m getting an error, looks like the server is being slammed with requests. Will try later and hopefully manage to get it fully installed for Thursday!

ERG89

klose wrote: »

Mad how games ship with so much work needed to be done but that's just how it is these days unfortunately, be like going to the cinema and there's still green screens in the background with their effects not done yet.

In 2020 most movies were delayed for months and some for over a year, whereas with games most still got released. Imagine trying to work on something like Cyberpunk this year?? Its basically impossible as you'd spend more of your time communicating than you would working.

titan18

Azza wrote: »

Not to take it off this thread off topic but Crysis was playable on lower spec hardware, it was just people refused to turn the setting down to playable levels at the time of its release.

True, was just an example. Main point was this game shouldn't be just playable on next gen consoles and PCs with things like 3080 or 3070, as that percentage of sales is tiny. If this game is a buggy mess for everyone as it's probably going to be, that's one thing, if this game is broken on current gen consoles (and very broken, rather than a Bethesda level of broken) and on mid range gaming PCs (thinking likes of 1070, 2070 users here etc) and working on higher specced machines, that's a bit different for me.

titan18

ERG89 wrote: »

In 2020 most movies were delayed for months and some for over a year, whereas with games most still got released. Imagine trying to work on something like Cyberpunk this year?? Its basically impossible as you'd spend more of your time communicating than you would working.

Tbf, they were delayed for financial reasons mainly as with no cinemas open, the projected income would be down a lot. That's not the case with games, if anything projected income has gone up.

A lot of films were able to stay in production throughout the year, albeit with some delays during the early covid lockdowns.

Cordell

ERG89 wrote: »

In 2020 most movies were delayed for months and some for over a year, whereas with games most still got released. Imagine trying to work on something like Cyberpunk this year?? Its basically impossible as you'd spend more of your time communicating than you would working.

I can't even imagine how can they be WFH on a game like this where you need hands on access to the PS/XB dev kits or to a PC that's properly secured, it's very unlikely they were allowed to take them home or to use their own PC and doing this kind of work using any kind of remote connection must be a horrific experience.

Retr0gamer

Cordell wrote: »

I can't even imagine how can they be WFH on a game like this where you need hands on access to the PS/XB dev kits or to a PC that's properly secured, it's very unlikely they were allowed to take them home or to use their own PC and doing this kind of work using any kind of remote connection must be a horrific experience.

You'd be surprised how much development tools have come along. Source control with the likes of github integration fascinated me and makes working from home very doable. It's an amazing piece of tech and I find it fascinating how it works. It's a really clever piece of software. I remember competing the AI code routine of our game on the train home and uploading the build to source control.

And that was over 10 years ago when I was in game development. It would be even easier now.

Also you really don't need a dev kit other than to generate a build to test on the console. Everything is created on PC and it would be very easy for someone on site to just compile the latest source control build using a dev kit for testing. You'd then only need a small amount of staff to work with dev kits while everything else is created remotely using source control.

Hey_Listen

Motion capture for these kinds of games is impossible to do from home.
But maybe they did all that + the story with actors pre-covid and the rest of the time is game programming.
Even still it's a huge amount of unrelenting work.

I think the company needs a break.

I'm giving them one anyway - I got Witcher 3 complete off them for < 15 quid and I've yet to play it.
+ they are doing a free next gen upgrade.

I'll get CP when the dust settles / the price comes down / next gen version is out.

(edit)
I wonder when/if we'll see games of this size being produced in Ireland ?
But you know what ... I don't think they are as enticing to enterprise ireland vs the facebooks/googles/microsofts.
They are such risky ventures.

Paddy@CIRL

All of this talk of performance issues on Xbox One X / PS4 Pro etc. and I'm sitting here praying my Day One 2013 Xbox One just doesn't burst into flames on Thursday.

TheValeyard

I CANNOT WAIT FOR THIS!!!!

Retr0gamer

Hey_Listen wrote: »

I wonder when/if we'll see games of this size being produced in Ireland ?

Scotland has Grand Theft Auto and the UK has some very big name developers. There's no reason Ireland couldn't.

The main issue is the education system. The UK was very quick to realise that computers were the future and introduced coding to the school curriculum. The UK from the 80's onwards ended up with a pool of very talented coders and developers while Ireland were left with a few outdated BBC micros from the Quinnsworth coupon collection scheme. I'm not sure what it's like now but pretty sure coding still isn't part of the school curriculum.

Retr0gamer

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Scotland has Grand Theft Auto and the UK has some very big name developers. There's no reason Ireland couldn't.

The main issue is the education system. The UK was very quick to realise that computers were the future and introduced coding to the school curriculum. The UK from the 80's onwards ended up with a pool of very talented coders and developers while Ireland were left with a few outdated BBC micros from the Quinnsworth coupon collection scheme. I'm not sure what it's like now but pretty sure coding still isn't part of the school curriculum.

I actually think we're pretty decent on developer front via immigration. The students we output from universities are mixed but I think that's partially as a result of courses themselves and us encouraging people into CS degrees who aren't suited towards them. Obviously depends on what developers specialise in as well but I think it's viable with a mix of local and internationally sourced developers.

Cordell

Retr0gamer wrote: »

You'd be surprised how much development tools have come along. Source control with the likes of github integration fascinated me and makes working from home very doable. It's an amazing piece of tech and I find it fascinating how it works. It's a really clever piece of software. I remember competing the AI code routine of our game on the train home and uploading the build to source control.

And that was over 10 years ago when I was in game development. It would be even easier now.

Also you really don't need a dev kit other than to generate a build to test on the console. Everything is created on PC and it would be very easy for someone on site to just compile the latest source control build using a dev kit for testing. You'd then only need a small amount of staff to work with dev kits while everything else is created remotely using source control.

I do work from home and I know (and I did gamedev some 10 years ago as well), but still, imagine having to fix something that when you kill x some parts stay floating, you will need to debug or trace the code and doing this submit and wait for someone else to test and report, rinse and repeat it's a PITH. And then submit again without tracing
Probably they had to use some remote connection, some sort of VNC or something better with better latency.

Retr0gamer

Cordell wrote: »

I do work from home and I know (and I did gamedev some 10 years ago as well), but still, imagine having to fix something that when you kill x some parts stay floating, you will need to debug or trace the code and doing this submit and wait for someone else to test and report, rinse and repeat it's a PITH. And then submit again without tracing
Probably they had to use some remote connection, some sort of VNC or something better with better latency.

I suppose the game I was working on much less complex

Retr0gamer

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I suppose the game I was working on much less complex

Can't imagine even a particularly well streamlined pipeline is particularly fast for any of this stuff either. Thoughts and prayers with devs. :P

Robert ninja

I had an interview with Irish dev from Larian studios a few weeks back and he said there's growing pains but the remote work is generally ok. Generally he just submits code and his lead takes care of merging. If you're a cog in the system I don't think remote work is that bad.