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JRPG general discussion
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Join Date:Posts: 50089
NISA and NIS Europe might be seperate bodies so could survive, NISA also publishes some anime. However the japanese company folding will end their game development. I'd say if it comes down to that they will be bought out more than likely ala Atlus. Also they have survived the threat of bankruptcy a good few times in the last while!
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Join Date:Posts: 50089
Disgaea though is pretty much all about levelling up like crazy and exploiting the silly amount of levels you can gain.
I do agree it's gotten quite complex, it feels a bit like what happened to fighting games in the late 90's.
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Join Date:Posts: 50089
Good discussion about how good ff13-3 is.
http://www.usgamer.net/articles/2014-recap-kat-and-jeremy-share-their-appreciation-for-lightning-returns-final-fantasy-xiii
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Join Date:Posts: 50089
Oh great a Kawase game in the Saga series. It could be ok, more than likely it will be confusing crap like the latest saga entries. We probably won't see it released in the west since we didn't even get the DS remakes of the Gameboy games which are meant to be great.
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Join Date:Posts: 50089
raze_them_all_ wrote: »yeah thats the reason i did, someone said it was a page or two back
Must be a weird price discrepancy, it seems to be 15 in some places and 10 in others.
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Join Date:Posts: 50089
You really need to play the Etrian Odysey games, they are amazing. They aren't so much hardcore dungeon cralwers but more so hardcore dungeon crawlers with the benefits of a few years of modern design philosophy. They might be tough but they are well designed and extremely playable and never unfair like older games can be. It's a total modernisation of the dungeon crawler. If you like Persona Q you'll like Etrian Odyssey. I got totally addicted to the first game in the series a few months back and apparently they've only gotten better since.
The way some writers go on about the Etrian Odyssey games being so hardcore and impenetratable is just nonsense when in fact the series makes dungeon crawling accessible.
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Join Date:Posts: 50089
As someone whose never really been into JRPGs due a general dislike of the turn based combat (at least I) associate(d) with the FF series, what titles would you guys recommend to a newbie to the genre?
I've had Lost Odyssey, Ni No Kuni, Eternal Sonata and 3D Dot Game Heroes on the shelf for a long time now. Valkyria Chronicles for the PS3 was a more recent addition but I'll probably end up picking it up on the PC now that it's been re-released. Tales of Vesperia and Folklore are on the Amazon wishlist.
You really shouldn't asociate turn based combat with Final Fantasy. Final Fantasy games don't have great turn based combat at all and it's more about mesing with the underlying systems and breaking them rather than the turn based combat. There are far better examples ofr turn based combat which are far more interesting and require a lot of thinking and strategy. I'd go so far as to say turn based combat is far better than the real time combat in most RPGs when it's done right (ie not final fantasy). Letting turn based combat put you off a game is like dismising X-Com for being turn based!
Of the games you mentioned you have I'd only really recommend Valkyria Chronicles which is more strategy game than RPG but is fantastic none the less. Lost Odyssey isn't a great game and has a bad Final Fantasy typr battle system, Ni No Kuni is flat out a terrible RPG despite the visuals and music,3D Dot game heroes is great but is more old school zelda than RPG and I wasn't too fond of Eternal Sonata.
I'd echo Johnny Ultimate about Persona 4, it's hands down the best RPG of the last 10 years. Eveerything is great about it including an amazing turn based strategy system that is fast paced (if you can't wipe out enemies in the first round you are in trouble) and tactical (you have to figure out the best way to take down enemies in that first round without eating into your limited reserves before they can be replenished). It's part of the Shin Megami Tensei series which has always been at the forefront of great RPG design. Shin Megami Tensei 4 was recently released in Europe of the Nintendo eShop and is another great starting point.
I'd also say you should look into Xenoblade Chronicles on the Wii which has a sort of MMO battle system but with JRPG tactics as well. It's one of the best RPGs in years and feels more real time than turn based.
If you want something old school then Suikoden 2, Grandia (best RPG battle system ever, hands down), or Valkyrie Profile are recommendations.
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Oh I'm aware of the problem with doing it, especially since my negative opinion was formed by poor PC-based ports of FFVII and FFVIII so long ago. I've attempted to shake it over the years, hence picking up some games along the way, I just haven't gotten around to playing any of them yet. It wasn't so much the turn-based gameplay aspect specifically, I loved the old X:Com games and still love Alpha Centauri now, I think it was just the whole "JRPG" thing itself.Retr0gamer wrote: »You really shouldn't asociate turn based combat with Final Fantasy. Final Fantasy games don't have great turn based combat at all and it's more about mesing with the underlying systems and breaking them rather than the turn based combat. There are far better examples ofr turn based combat which are far more interesting and require a lot of thinking and strategy. I'd go so far as to say turn based combat is far better than the real time combat in most RPGs when it's done right (ie not final fantasy). Letting turn based combat put you off a game is like dismising X-Com for being turn based!
So that's two votes for VC, looks like I may start there then, ta!Retr0gamer wrote: »Of the games you mentioned you have I'd only really recommend Valkyria Chronicles which is more strategy game than RPG but is fantastic none the less. Lost Odyssey isn't a great game and has a bad Final Fantasy typr battle system, Ni No Kuni is flat out a terrible RPG despite the visuals and music,3D Dot game heroes is great but is more old school zelda than RPG and I wasn't too fond of Eternal Sonata.
Yup, from various chats around here it seems that some of the best modern examples of the genre were being released on the Vita and 3DS, looks like I'll need to pick one of those up sooner rather than later.Retr0gamer wrote: »I'd echo Johnny Ultimate about Persona 4, it's hands down the best RPG of the last 10 years. Eveerything is great about it including an amazing turn based strategy system that is fast paced (if you can't wipe out enemies in the first round you are in trouble) and tactical (you have to figure out the best way to take down enemies in that first round without eating into your limited reserves before they can be replenished). It's part of the Shin Megami Tensei series which has always been at the forefront of great RPG design. Shin Megami Tensei 4 was recently released in Europe of the Nintendo eShop and is another great starting point.
Oh, I actually do have this. Picked it up in Argos of all places awhile back. I'll kick that up to the top of the list then.Retr0gamer wrote: »I'd also say you should look into Xenoblade Chronicles on the Wii which has a sort of MMO battle system but with JRPG tactics as well. It's one of the best RPGs in years and feels more real time than turn based.
Aye, read this piece, Why You Should Play Suikoden II, One Of The Best RPGs Ever Made, with great interest a few days ago. It's definitely on my radar anyway.Retr0gamer wrote: »If you want something old school then Suikoden 2, Grandia (best RPG battle system ever, hands down), or Valkyrie Profile are recommendations.
Cheers guys, much appreciated!
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Join Date:Posts: 50089
A lot of the problems with JRPG battle systems came about in the PS1 era. It was a highly experimental time but also it became kind of acceptable at the time to sacrifice the brisk pace of battle systems for eye candy animations and the loading times asociated with them. It really slowed the pace of the battle systems down. Something like FFVII or FFVIII run at 15 FPS (in the US it's more like 12 in Europe) take 5 seconds to load the battle scene, 15 to load the character models and then each time a magic attack is executed that needs to be loaded from disc. The best battle systems are the ones that don't waste the players time. Something like Suikoden 2 has no load times for it's battles with attack animations running over themselves to speed things up even further. Shin Megami Tensei has always been about every random encounter being a threat that can end the player so it's all about taking them out before they can act. Even the SNES Final Fantasy games were very fast paced and in fact the PS1 remakes with loading times effectively ruin those games and make them near unplayable.
It's best to start with something really good like Persona, VC or Xenoblade (which is more western orientated being MMO influenced) and then maybe working your way to PS1 FF games. Even though the battle systems of those games aren't great the fun lies in how broken the systems are and the games actively encourage you to break them (although FFVII kind of doesn't even have that and has one of the weakest battle systems in the series).
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Join Date:Posts: 79247
As someone whose never really been into JRPGs due a general dislike of the turn based combat (at least I) associate(d) with the FF series, what titles would you guys recommend to a newbie to the genre?
I've had Lost Odyssey, Ni No Kuni, Eternal Sonata and 3D Dot Game Heroes on the shelf for a long time now. Valkyria Chronicles for the PS3 was a more recent addition but I'll probably end up picking it up on the PC now that it's been re-released. Tales of Vesperia and Folklore are on the Amazon wishlist.
Are they enough to serve as an introduction and keep me going for awhile or are there other titles I should look for on the platform. I do have a DS which is woefully under utilised but also have a backlog on that without any JRPGs so far.
The tales of series is worth a look at. Give symphonia a go, my favourite of the tales series. Or give grandia a go 1 or 2 , grandias graphics have not aged well though
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Join Date:Posts: 50089
Interesting summary of an interview between Kitase and Sakaguchi. Really funny how Sakaguchi goes back into producer mode and starts giving Kitase **** about his new game It's really candid and really gives you a sense of how Sakaguchi contributed to the FF games. He seems to be far more hands on than I expected him to be.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=143742373&postcount=267
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, I'll be picking up both. 
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