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Kahn -v- Garcia - 14th July **spoilers inside**

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    #92
    gene_tunney
    Registered Users Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭gene_tunney


    corny wrote: »
    They weren't really. For me he got really lucky. Khan should have realised that fella was on the slippery slope to being stopped. Khans shots didn't stagger him or anything but you could see he was becoming more and more reckless (desperate) with the wild swings. He swung a few times in the third and was nowhere near the target. Unfortunately for Khan the one that got through he just didn't see coming and like you alluded to they're the shots that really wobble him.

    Last night exposed the two of them for me.

    For me, neither fighter was exposed. Both were B level fighters going into the fight, and both remain B level fighters.


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    #93
    JonathanAnon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,718 ✭✭✭✭JonathanAnon


    corny wrote: »
    They weren't really. For me he got really lucky. Khan should have realised that fella was on the slippery slope to being stopped.

    I thought it was a bit of a lucky punch as well... Garcia was swinging wildly and was avoiding punches at the time he connected.. But it's been evident since the Prescott fight that Khan has a suspect chin, and if you throw enough haymakers there is always the chance that you will knock him out if you connect with one.
    tbh, I thought the ref should have stopped the fight after the first knockdown.


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    #94
    section4
    Registered Users Posts: 358 ✭✭section4


    corny wrote: »
    They weren't really. For me he got really lucky. Khan should have realised that fella was on the slippery slope to being stopped. Khans shots didn't stagger him or anything but you could see he was becoming more and more reckless (desperate) with the wild swings. He swung a few times in the third and was nowhere near the target. Unfortunately for Khan the one that got through he just didn't see coming and like you alluded to they're the shots that really wobble him.

    Last night exposed the two of them for me.

    Thats not what i saw, what i saw was khan hitting garcia and not hurting him in the first few rounds and garcia throwing back counters which were not connecting properly but were getting closer I knew if this is what is happening in the first few rounds then khan is done because it would only be a matter of time before he would have to trade punch for punch and then he is done.
    Garcia had taken khans best punches and was looking strong and game and I would suggest his strategy was to take khan into the later rounds and then get closer to him but he did not even have to do that and i would say he was surprised that khan tried to trade so early but took the opportunity
    After i watched th first few rounds i turned of the idiotic sky commentators and thought that khan would tire and get slower and be taken out about the 9 or 10th as he started to get tagged and stopped boxing bet he was even worse than i thought and garcia a little stronger.
    He quite simply cannot take punches, and i dont mean to the chin, he cannot take punches which hit him anywhere on the head and i have said this time and again on this forum, i have said he will get beat when he fights some one who hits him back consitently, not necessarily hard just hits him back with average power and that is what happened.
    Garcia record does not suggest he is a devastating hitter or anything like it, he has about average power but thats all you need for khan.
    Garcia was picked because they thought he would be easy for khan and he is not noted as a puncher, khans problem is he is not as good as he thinks he is, he is not as good a some people in here think he is ,
    But its good to see reality surface as it always does.


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    #95
    section4
    Registered Users Posts: 358 ✭✭section4


    JonathanAnon wrote: »
    I thought it was a bit of a lucky punch as well... Garcia was swinging wildly and was avoiding punches at the time he connected.. But it's been evident since the Prescott fight that Khan has a suspect chin, and if you throw enough haymakers there is always the chance that you will knock him out if you connect with one.
    tbh, I thought the ref should have stopped the fight after the first knockdown.



    it been evident since he was an amateur, he has been rocked consistently on his way up and even by guys picked because they were not punchers.


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    #96
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,019 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    section4 wrote: »
    it been evident since he was an amateur, he has been rocked consistently on his way up and even by guys picked because they were not punchers.

    Yes, but it did seem that he was showing improved resistance signs of late. He took a lot of flush shots from LP and never really looked bothered. Maidana had him wobbled many times, I admit, but Khan still showed improvement with age, maturity and weight gain. Just not enough improvement.


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    #97
    section4
    Registered Users Posts: 358 ✭✭section4


    JonathanAnon wrote: »
    I thought it was a bit of a lucky punch as well... Garcia was swinging wildly and was avoiding punches at the time he connected.. But it's been evident since the Prescott fight that Khan has a suspect chin, and if you throw enough haymakers there is always the chance that you will knock him out if you connect with one.
    tbh, I thought the ref should have stopped the fight after the first knockdown.


    not a lucky punch, a lucky punch is one thrown with no strategy ot hope behind it which sometimes land in the right place.
    This was a punch garcia was looking for and had been throwing since the first round but which had not quite landed properly, i note it was said in the reviews that garcia said while he was not quite as fast as khan but he had better timing and anyone who has boxed know that you throw a punch a good few times and each timedtry to time it better and better and this one was was timed right, he was zeroing in and he would have been getting closer closer as the rounds passed as khan tired it just happened sooner than i thought, i thought khan would have tried to run and box and then get tired and start to get tagged.
    So no i would not call it a lucky punch, he meant it tto go where it went.


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    #98
    Kirby
    Registered Users Posts: 13,084 ✭✭✭✭Kirby


    section4 wrote: »
    not a lucky punch, a lucky punch is one thrown with no strategy ot hope behind it which sometimes land in the right place.
    This was a punch garcia was looking for and had been throwing since the first round but which had not quite landed properly, .

    I know what you mean by "looking for it" but it's a funny turn of phrase when he was looking at the deck when he threw it. :p

    He wasn't even looking at Khan. He stook his head low to avoid the incoming shots, and then swung his arm in blind hope. It was about the 10th haymaker he threw out and the previous nine missed by an absolute mile. But that's boxing.

    Khan's ego beat him. He has a weak guard and absolutely no punch resistance. But he has very quick hands so he should have thrown combinations and got the fook out like he has done previously. If he did that for 12 rounds, he would have won the fight comfortably. But he had it in his head that he needed to impress the Americans and grow his brand and stuck around in range of Garcia......and if he does that most people will beat him. Gain fans by winning. Look at Mayweather. Dire fights because of his tactics but people keep watching. You don't have to knock people out to be loved or respected.

    Terrible tactics and ego is what did him. It's a long way back from here but if he cops the feck on to himself and starts boxing to his strengths he will be okay.


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    #99
    corny
    Registered Users Posts: 7,781 ✭✭✭corny


    section4 wrote: »
    Thats not what i saw, what i saw was khan hitting garcia and not hurting him in the first few rounds and garcia throwing back counters which were not connecting properly but were getting closer I knew if this is what is happening in the first few rounds then khan is done because it would only be a matter of time before he would have to trade punch for punch and then he is done.
    Garcia had taken khans best punches and was looking strong and game and I would suggest his strategy was to take khan into the later rounds and then get closer to him but he did not even have to do that and i would say he was surprised that khan tried to trade so early but took the opportunity
    After i watched th first few rounds i turned of the idiotic sky commentators and thought that khan would tire and get slower and be taken out about the 9 or 10th as he started to get tagged and stopped boxing bet he was even worse than i thought and garcia a little stronger.
    He quite simply cannot take punches, and i dont mean to the chin, he cannot take punches which hit him anywhere on the head and i have said this time and again on this forum, i have said he will get beat when he fights some one who hits him back consitently, not necessarily hard just hits him back with average power and that is what happened.
    Garcia record does not suggest he is a devastating hitter or anything like it, he has about average power but thats all you need for khan.
    Garcia was picked because they thought he would be easy for khan and he is not noted as a puncher, khans problem is he is not as good as he thinks he is, he is not as good a some people in here think he is ,
    But its good to see reality surface as it always does.

    If the knock down hadn't happened Khan would be 3-0 up with Garcia getting more and more wild. His corner were telling him not to panic with his bloodied eye ffs. There was nothing controlled or calculating about him. He threw and got lucky.

    Doesn't make Khan unlucky btw.


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    #100
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,019 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    So it sounds a lot like Khan's ego and stupidity cost him the fight, as much as his punch resistance did. Neglecting his speed, range and skill advanatges to go toe to toe to try and KO this guy. Khan fought angry, and that can be deadly in two ways. Unfortunately for Khan it was deadly against himself.


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    #101
    Raekwon
    Registered Users Posts: 4,535 ✭✭✭Raekwon


    I've just after watching a recording of the fight and Khan really played into Garcia's hands before he was KO'ed.

    I really don't understand why he didn't just stick to his game plan and use his speed and movement to pick Garcia apart like he did in the first couple of rounds. I mean he had Garcia cut and really frustrated to the point where he was swinging wildly so why did he feel the need to suddenly engage with his heavy handed opponent?

    I don't think Khan's career at this level is over after this setback but he'll really need to fight smarter then he did lastnight if he is too win another world title. The guy has bags of ability but he really needs to protect his glass chin and stay out of range in the future.


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    #102
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,019 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Excellent fight, with Khan showing balls of steel, again. He really makes for exciting fights. I was wishing and wishing he'd get thru rd 4, even knowing the result beforehand. He was clearly the better boxer. Garcia is fairly wooden. Heavy enough hands, and good timing. Other than that I wasn't overly impressed with him. Damn shame that Khan is weak chinned. Even without the inside game or natural pro style Khan can beat men all night with speed and range. He looked razor sharp in the first three rds. As fast as I have ever seen him looking. Khan threw everything at Garcia in rd 4 and was millimetres from landing his own flush bomb.


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    #103
    BINKY NIPPER
    Closed Accounts Posts: 257 ✭✭BINKY NIPPER


    Khan has a glass chin. Simples


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    #104
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Khan's career is over. He's a skillful boxer that suffers the curse of a glass chin. Nothing he can do to change it.


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    #105
    section4
    Registered Users Posts: 358 ✭✭section4


    Kirby wrote: »
    I know what you mean by "looking for it" but it's a funny turn of phrase when he was looking at the deck when he threw it. :p

    He wasn't even looking at Khan. He stook his head low to avoid the incoming shots, and then swung his arm in blind hope. It was about the 10th haymaker he threw out and the previous nine missed by an absolute mile. But that's boxing.

    Khan's ego beat him. He has a weak guard and absolutely no punch resistance. But he has very quick hands so he should have thrown combinations and got the fook out like he has done previously. If he did that for 12 rounds, he would have won the fight comfortably. But he had it in his head that he needed to impress the Americans and grow his brand and stuck around in range of Garcia......and if he does that most people will beat him. Gain fans by winning. Look at Mayweather. Dire fights because of his tactics but people keep watching. You don't have to knock people out to be loved or respected.

    Terrible tactics and ego is what did him. It's a long way back from here but if he cops the feck on to himself and starts boxing to his strengths he will be okay.

    Thats exactly what i mean by looking for it, you dont have to be looking at some one head to hit it, you let them come and wait till their in a certain position and then let the punch go because you know by looking at the position of their feet or fists where exactly their head should be, any one who has boxed at any decent level knows this. It was a long left hook, you let the guy come and throw a right hand and just throw your punch over his outstretched right arms or shoulder and you have a very good chance at hitting something and without out his peripheral vision seeing it can be devastating, its all about timing.
    The fact of the matter is Khan is a B level fighter and always has been and it was no surprise to me he was beat by some one at the same level as him who has hit him back and has a bit of hunger.


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    #106
    nacho libre
    Registered Users Posts: 16,678 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    walshb wrote: »
    Without having seen the fight maybe Garcia's shots were crisper and cleaner. Maidana's shots are crude, telegraphed and wider. Plus, Khan was hanging on for dear life vs. Maidana too.

    Well i can only think Khan was complacent then, perhaps he thought after surviving against Maidana that he could go toe to toe with anyone. With his handspeed he should have been able to win comfortably enough on points.


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    #107
    The Davestator
    Registered Users Posts: 3,409 ✭✭✭The Davestator


    Just watched the fight. One of the best fights I've seen recently - great entertainment.

    Delighted with the result, Khan is delusional.


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    #108
    section4
    Registered Users Posts: 358 ✭✭section4


    corny wrote: »
    If the knock down hadn't happened Khan would be 3-0 up with Garcia getting more and more wild. His corner were telling him not to panic with his bloodied eye ffs. There was nothing controlled or calculating about him. He threw and got lucky.

    Doesn't make Khan unlucky btw.

    from a discussion we had some months ago.

    thats what i see based on my exp, i said months ago when khan fight some one who hits him back consistently he will struggle, I i dont mean hit him hard consistently just hit him with average power, he does not react well to prerssure and getting hit.

    Maidana a slow plodding fighter with a power hit him quite a lot and he struggled

    Peterson a good fighter with not a lot of power hit him quite a lot and he ran all night

    when he fights a fighter who has the skills to land regularly and firmly he will ne stopped.


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    #109
    corny
    Registered Users Posts: 7,781 ✭✭✭corny


    section4 wrote: »
    from a discussion we had some months ago.

    thats what i see based on my exp, i said months ago when khan fight some one who hits him back consistently he will struggle, I i dont mean hit him hard consistently just hit him with average power, he does not react well to prerssure and getting hit.

    Maidana a slow plodding fighter with a power hit him quite a lot and he struggled

    Peterson a good fighter with not a lot of power hit him quite a lot and he ran all night

    when he fights a fighter who has the skills to land regularly and firmly he will ne stopped.

    What has any of that got to do with Garcia?


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    #110
    cunnifferous
    Registered Users Posts: 1,076 ✭✭✭cunnifferous


    Just saw the post fight press conference. Khan should fight garcia's dad next, I'd pay to see that.


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    #111
    section4
    Registered Users Posts: 358 ✭✭section4


    corny wrote: »
    What has any of that got to do with Garcia?

    garcia hit him with average power and he was stopped, just like i said

    and i also said it was not only his chin that was the problem it was his head, hit him anywhere on the head and he is in trouble.

    he fought a guy who was roughly the same age and who hit him back and he was stopped,just like i said he would.

    thats what it got to do with garcia.


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    #112
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,019 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    We are all aware of Khan's weaknesses. I thought the guy threw the kitchen sink to try and stay in there. A hell of a 4th rd. He really is an exciting fighter. I know all fighters' show heart and warrior mentality, but on Saturday night Khan really showed balls and courage. He desperately not only wanted to survive, but he wanted to reverse the damage and catch Garcia.

    The hate and criticism he receives seems far too personal at times. I just don't get that. The guy has serious ambition, is no doubt a talented boxer, fights top men a lot of the time, and comes to fight too. It's just a damn shame that his chin is not up to it, and that he has no real back up plan to compensate for the chin. Sure, he can move, stick and run, but that is always risky.

    He needs the kind of slick defensive qualities of a Pea, Toney, Floyd etc to stand any chance of not getting taken out. Unfortunately these traits a fighter is born with. Nobody can change Khan to be able to suddenly slick his way out of real danger. Khan's style is his style. He has done very well with it. His lack of a solid beard is just something that Khan has to accept.

    As for excitement and passion in that ring the guy is Grade A! Who else apart from those who have a personal dislike, and almost hate for Khan, were wishing hard for him to get thru rd 4?


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    #113
    supersean1999
    Registered Users Posts: 2,465 ✭✭✭supersean1999


    walshb wrote: »
    We are all aware of Khan's weaknesses. I thought the guy threw the kitchen sink to try and stay in there. A hell of a 4th rd. He really is an exciting fighter. I know all fighters' show heart and warrior mentality, but on Saturday night Khan really showed balls and courage. He desperately not only wanted to survive, but he wanted to reverse the damage and catch Garcia.

    The hate and criticism he receives seems far too personal at times. I just don't get that. The guy has serious ambition, is no doubt a talented boxer, fights top men a lot of the time, and comes to fight too. It's just a damn shame that his chin is not up to it, and that he has no real back up plan to compensate for the chin. Sure, he can move, stick and run, but that is always risky.

    He needs the kind of slick defensive qualities of a Pea, Toney, Floyd etc to stand any chance of not getting taken out. Unfortunately these traits a fighter is born with. Nobody can change Khan to be able to suddenly slick his way out of real danger. Khan's style is his style. He has done very well with it. His lack of a solid beard is just something that Khan has to accept.

    As for excitement and passion in that ring the guy is Grade A! Who else apart from those who have a personal dislike, and almost hate for Khan, were wishing hard for him to get thru rd 4?

    he is prob the most over rated fighter right now, his chin is a major prob, but if he was not so inept at sticking to a plan he would not take as many shots,superstar my ass, just be honest you have overrated him simple as that


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    #114
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,019 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    supersean1999 wrote: »
    he is prob the most over rated fighter right now, his chin is a major prob, but if he was not so inept at sticking to a plan he would not take as many shots,superstar my ass, just be honest you have overrated him simple as that

    No, I didn't overrate him, and if you bother to read back over posts from myself you will see that I have listed his wekanesses and have acknowledged them many times.

    Like it or not: He was the 140 lbs champion, or one of them. He was a top three rated 140 lbs man in the world. That is not overrating, that is fact.


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    #115
    supersean1999
    Registered Users Posts: 2,465 ✭✭✭supersean1999


    walshb wrote: »
    No, I didn't overrate him, and if you bother to read back over posts from myself you will see that I have listed his wekanesses and have acknowledged them many times.

    Like it or not: He was the 140 lbs champion, or one of them. He was a top three rated 140 lbs man in the world. That is not overrating, that is fact.

    to be honest most of your posts just seem to argue with what the last person says, so reading them all is not something ill do, and here is another fact for you he was been beaten 3 times none by what would be regarded a elite level figher, have a nice day


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    #116
    corny
    Registered Users Posts: 7,781 ✭✭✭corny


    section4 wrote: »
    garcia hit him with average power and he was stopped, just like i said

    and i also said it was not only his chin that was the problem it was his head, hit him anywhere on the head and he is in trouble.

    he fought a guy who was roughly the same age and who hit him back and he was stopped,just like i said he would.

    thats what it got to do with garcia.

    I think you've an ancient score to settle that i'm unaware of.:p

    Anyway i'll stick to what i said before you corrected me.


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    #117
    cowzerp
    Registered Users Posts: 10,549 ✭✭✭✭cowzerp


    walshb wrote: »
    No, I didn't overrate him, and if you bother to read back over posts from myself you will see that I have listed his wekanesses and have acknowledged them many times.

    Like it or not: He was the 140 lbs champion, or one of them. He was a top three rated 140 lbs man in the world. That is not overrating, that is fact.

    you did and do overrate him! he is an extremely limited 1 dimensional fighter who has a weak chin and poor defence too, he's regularly been put in with fighters that should suit him and still is always in danger.

    The hate i feel is less for him and more for the overhype he gets from Sky and the British press, he has some abilities but nowhere near well rounded enough to be a true top boxer.

    Rush Boxing club and Rush Martial Arts head coach.



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    #118
    Maravilla33
    Registered Users Posts: 524 ✭✭✭Maravilla33


    gene_tunney wrote: »
    It's been a long time since I listened to them about anything. 100% clueless. Don't get me started. HBO is the only channel I don't mute.

    HBO are nearly as bad. I do prefer listening to them and there is a lot of knowledge in there especially with Manny Steward but they can hardly be accused of being objective. Some of the bias they exhibit when calling a fight is embarrassing at times.


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    #119
    corny
    Registered Users Posts: 7,781 ✭✭✭corny


    cowzerp wrote: »
    you did and do overrate him! he is an extremely limited 1 dimensional fighter who has a weak chin and poor defence too, he's regularly been put in with fighters that should suit him and still is always in danger.

    The hate i feel is less for him and more for the overhype he gets from Sky and the British press, he has some abilities but nowhere near well rounded enough to be a true top boxer.

    Thats the key. He's nice on the front foot, terrible on the back foot. A bit like Cristiano Ronaldo!


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    #120
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,019 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    cowzerp wrote: »
    you did and do overrate him! he is an extremely limited 1 dimensional fighter who has a weak chin and poor defence too, he's regularly been put in with fighters that should suit him and still is always in danger.

    The hate i feel is less for him and more for the overhype he gets from Sky and the British press, he has some abilities but nowhere near well rounded enough to be a true top boxer.

    No, I did not overrate him. I knew like everyone else that he had his flaws. I never claimed him to be the GOAT. I said that he was the one of the best in the division; that is a fact. He proved this. Still has his weaknesses. He without doubt also has his strengths and skills.

    If Paulie Malignaggi is a 147 lbs champ, then Khan was a 140 lbs champ. Remember the discussion on Paulie? Khan destroyed him.


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    #121
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,019 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    supersean1999 wrote: »
    to be honest most of your posts just seem to argue with what the last person says, so reading them all is not something ill do, and here is another fact for you he was been beaten 3 times none by what would be regarded a elite level figher, have a nice day

    Who's arguing? I prefer to call it a civil discussion, but if you really think it's arguing, and that doesn't suit you, so be it.


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