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Is Katie Taylor Ireland best athlete
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Stop jumping to conclusions makl.Patsy fyre wrote: »1 in 50000 footballers ever reach the professional level. It could be said that's a greater achievement than winning a women's boxing tournament.
here we go again.
you determine the quality of an athlete by the depth of the field of their sport?
so, padraig harrington? muck.
rory mcilroy? muck
brian o driscoll? muck.
shefflin and dj? muck.
good way of lookin at it.0 -
Patsy fyre wrote: »
Stop jumping to conclusions makl.Patsy fyre wrote: »1 in 50000 footballers ever reach the professional level. It could be said that's a greater achievement than winning a women's boxing tournament.
here we go again.
you determine the quality of an athlete by the depth of the field of their sport?
so, padraig harrington? muck.
rory mcilroy? muck
brian o driscoll? muck.
shefflin and dj? muck.
good way of lookin at it.
in two posts you make it very clear that you think keane is great cos he excelled at a popular sport. in fact so much so that you think just being a soccer pro is better than a world champ female boxer.
im not jumping to any conclusions, you are making that point whether you know it or not.0 -
Until Katie Taylor mkes it as a pro, there should be no need for a thread, Irish boys again celebrating medioricty, it is true for Keano.in two posts you make it very clear that you think keane is great cos he excelled at a popular sport. in fact so much so that you think just being a soccer pro is better than a world champ female boxer.
im not jumping to any conclusions, you are making that point whether you know it or not.0 -
basillarkin wrote: »Until Katie Taylor mkes it as a pro, there should be no need for a thread, Irish boys again celebrating medioricty, it is true for Keano.
Mediocrity for whom? Taylor or Keane?0 -
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GAA players are all amateurs. So are half of Olympians.basillarkin wrote: »Well Keane is a pro, Katie on the other hand is?
Rubbish logic.
Anyway, I'm pretty sure K does it "for a living", whether she's officially a pro or not.0 -
basillarkin wrote: »Well Keane is a pro, Katie on the other hand is?
So? DJ Carey and Sheffelin were/are amateurs. Many great athletes on this island were amateurs. What is your point? You must be a pro to be considered for the GOAT?0 -
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here we go again.
you determine the quality of an athlete by the depth of the field of their sport?
so, padraig harrington? muck.
rory mcilroy? muck
brian o driscoll? muck.
shefflin and dj? muck.
good way of lookin at it.
You have to take it into account.. do you really rank someone like Shefflin up there with football players like Pele.
Yes, you can say Shefflin is one of, if not thee greatest hurling player ever and any sane person wouldn't even be comparing the two. But Since we are comparing athletes from different sports you HAVE to take into account how difficult it is to become a top level athlete in that sport and how much competition there is the be the best.
Quite frankly, being the best woman boxer in ONE weight division at amateur level, is just not as big an achievement as a lot of the other Irish athletes achievements.. its just not.. simple as that.
You say this logic means that we should think less of Rory, Padraig and co's achievements...but... there are over 26 million people in the United States alone who play Golf, that is many times the number of 60kg amateur women boxers there are.
Rugby also has a player base of over 10 million.. again eclipsing the competition numbers that Katie faces. In-fact i would go as far to say even hurling is played at a higher level of competition than what Katie has to compete against.
Its not Katie's fault... who knows if she would still be as dominant if her sport and weight division was more competitive and had a larger fighter base, but to say that she is the greatest Irish Athlete ever is nothing but complete ignorance and an insult to our other elite athletes, both past and present.
Like i've said in a previous post (Which some people seemed to just ignore), she isn't even the greatest boxer this Island has produced.0 -
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If your aunt had ba&&s she'd be your uncle.Its not Katie's fault... who knows if she would still be as dominant if her sport and weight division was more competitive and had a larger fighter base, but to say that she is the greatest Irish Athlete ever is nothing but complete ignorance and an insult to our other elite athletes, both past and present.
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We have said that boxing will never be as popular as other sports, some that just aren't near as pyhsically demanding. That has to be looked at.
We spoke about Sonia, and like I said, and cowzerp said, running is a lot easier to take up. It's not near as complex a sport as boxing. It's running, and the mechanics involved are innate in us. It's in our DNA. We do it naturally, some are just naturally better and get even better thru hard work.
Not every human can do what Katie does to her level, or even attempt to do it. They can attempt to do it at running, and may fail due to speed and endurance. Boxing is so much more intricate.
I am not sure that you appreciate the comp level there is today in Katie's sport. In China today there are many press from around the world, a whole lot more than in 2010. That shows the growth and depth there is right now, of course it being Olympic year will make this more apparent, but there are heaps of talented women from all continents competing for a place in London. It is highly competitive now.0 -
Like i've said in a previous post (Which some people seemed to just ignore), she isn't even the greatest boxer this Island has produced.
Your wrong though, she is the best and has the titles to support the claim.
Whatever million play golf, most do it for the fun-the actual challengers is a small number
If she wins Olympic gold it's as valuable as any other gold that is won.Rush Boxing club and Rush Martial Arts head coach.
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Your wrong though, she is the best and has the titles to support the claim.
Whatever million play golf, most do it for the fun-the actual challengers is a small number
If she wins Olympic gold it's as valuable as any other gold that is won.
The level of competition has to come into account when deciding on the best athlete ever though. Just because she has titles doesn't mean, she's naturally better than someone who competes in a more competitive field0 -
If your aunt had ba&&s she'd be your uncle.
We have said that boxing will never be as popular as other sports, some that just aren't near as pyhsically demanding. That has to be looked at.
We spoke about Sonia, and like I said, and cowzerp said, running is a lot easier to take up. It's not near as complex a sport as boxing. It's running, and the mechanics involved are innate in us. It's in our DNA. We do it naturally, some are just naturally better and get even better thru hard work.
Not every human can do what Katie does to her level, or even attempt to do it. They can attempt to do it at running, and may fail due to speed and endurance. Boxing is so much more intricate.
I am not sure that you appreciate the comp level there is today in Katie's sport. In China today there are many press from around the world, a whole lot more than in 2010. That shows the growth and depth there is right now, of course it being Olympic year will make this more apparent, but there are heaps of talented women from all continents competing for a place in London. It is highly competitive now.
This has nothing to do with how physically demanding a sport is, I've never said that running was more physical... just that the level of competition is much higher in some sports because the field of athletes is much larger. Its certainly not because most people can't "handle" boxing, its just not something that enters most women's heads (Too a lesser extend with men) when it comes to playing/taking part in a sport and thus most never give it a shot.
It still doesn't take away from the fact that it is a much less competitive field than that of other more popular sports. In other words... Katie is in the top 0.001% of her sport whereas Rory McIlroy is in the top 0.00001% of his.
Also, stop twisting my words, I've never said her weight division is not competitive. Her achievements are outstanding and i for one am proud of what shes done and will be cheering her on at the Olympics..0 -
Your wrong though, she is the best and has the titles to support the claim.
Whatever million play golf, most do it for the fun-the actual challengers is a small number
If she wins Olympic gold it's as valuable as any other gold that is won.
Ok if katie wins the world championship and Paula Radcliffe wins a marathon with 50,000 running in it, most non competitive and probably 5-10 people with any chance of challenging her how does that make it more competitive!
More does not mean better-most sports have a handfull of elite competitors and the rest make up the numbers.
Having tons making up the numbers means nothing.Rush Boxing club and Rush Martial Arts head coach.
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Ok if katie wins the world championship and Paula Radcliffe wins a marathon with 50,000 running in it, most non competitive and probably 5-10 people with any chance of challenging her how does that make it more competitive!
More does not mean better-most sports have a handfull of elite competitors and the rest make up the numbers.
Having tons making up the numbers means nothing.
I would consider the top 10 in distance racing(women and mens) to be of a higher standard than the top 10 in Women's boxing.0 -
I would consider the top 10 in distance racing(women and mens) to be of a higher standard than the top 10 in Women's boxing.
Yeah but again you'd be wrong!
You have no clue about the standard, and Katie in particular is amazing and not because her opposition is poor.Rush Boxing club and Rush Martial Arts head coach.
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Also, stop twisting my words, I've never said her weight division is not competitive. Her achievements are outstanding and i for one am proud of what shes done and will be cheering her on at the Olympics..
I am not twisting your words, because I never said that you said that her weight division was not competitive.
"who knows if she would still be as dominant if her sport and weight division was more competitive and had a larger fighter base,"
I replied: "if your aunt had ba%^s she'd be your uncle."
So, where am I twisting your words?0 -
I would consider the top 10 in distance racing(women and mens) to be of a higher standard than the top 10 in Women's boxing.
Possibly, but how can you measure two different sets of sports and competitors? Katie is the best of the best over all her opponents, and it's not because they are duds. She is the best, but many are so so close, and nipping at her heels all the time. That alone will tell you how good they are.0 -
You have no clue about the standard, and Katie in particular is amazing and because her opposition is poor.
Are you saying that this is what the poster above you thinks? The opposition is top class, Katie is just a slight notch better, and also, she has been beaten too, which shows us how deep the pool is.0 -
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This has nothing to do with how physically demanding a sport is, I've never said that running was more physical... just that the level of competition is much higher in some sports because the field of athletes is much larger. Its certainly not because most people can't "handle" boxing, its just not something that enters most women's heads (Too a lesser extend with men) when it comes to playing/taking part in a sport and thus most never give it a shot.
It still doesn't take away from the fact that it is a much less competitive field than that of other more popular sports. In other words... Katie is in the top 0.001% of her sport whereas Rory McIlroy is in the top 0.00001% of his.
Yes it is. Boxing is also about getting hit. Try doing corner for (or even being) an 8 year old who is crying after the first round of his first or second fight but who still goes back in for another two rounds. Plenty of people cannot and choose not to handle that.
If you get tired running, you walk home. Even the best in marathons. If you get tired boxing, you get smacked around. The 'field' of those who run is large because it's easy to do. The level of athletes at the top is tiny because it's difficult to be good at. Same with soccer. Anyone can kick a ball around.
26 million golfers? No way. If there are 26 million golfers in the US than anyone who has ever run for a bus is a runner or anyone who has driven a car is a rally driver. Rory McIlroy or Katie are not in the 0.000x of their sport. Fun runners and fun golfers (or fun boxers) don't count.
And even if we go with your argument about the level of competition, then only soccer players can be considered elite. Only. No one else. More people play football than anyone else in the world.0 -
Are you saying that this is what the poster above you thinks? The opposition is top class, Katie is just a slight notch better, and also, she has been beaten too, which shows us how deep the pool is.
Left not poor out!! Fixed
We know boxing bren, its clear to see she is class by any standards-even comparing her to the men she stands out as been brilliant.
Not just a good woman in a weak division-genuine classRush Boxing club and Rush Martial Arts head coach.
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In my opinion, if she was a male and achieved the same level there would be no doubt. So why is there a doubt?0
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In my opinion, if she was a male and achieved the same level there would be no doubt. So why is there a doubt?
Because that is the nature of theses debates. I have no problem with a different and worthy candidate. My issue is more with the tired and stale excuse that her field is not deep or competitive. That is false.0 -
26 million golfers? No way. If there are 26 million golfers in the US than anyone who has ever run for a bus is a runner or anyone who has driven a car is a rally driver. Rory McIlroy or Katie are not in the 0.000x of their sport. Fun runners and fun golfers (or fun boxers) don't count.
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Glad you beat me to this. I thought it was off the charts illogical too. I play golf, albeit very ordinarily, I guess I am included in the pool here in Ireland.0 -
i found this in the aiba website. its a list of Katie's international achievements since 2004 !
60KG –
KATIE TAYLOR – IRELAND (IRL)
Date Of Birth : 07/02/1986
Place Of Birth : Bray
Club : Bray BC
Coach : Peter Taylor
She has been boxing since 1998.
2012 – IRL-NED Dual Match2 – 60KG Won against Jessica Belder (NED) 27:4
2012 – IRL-NED Dual Match1 – 60KG Won against Jessica Belder (NED) 25:5
2011 – European Women's Championships (Rotterdam, NED) 1st place – 60KG Won against Sofya Ochigava (RUS) 10:5 in the final; Won against Helena Falk (SWE) 25:11 in the semi-final; Won against Ayzanat Hajiyeva (AZE) 17:4 in the quarter-final; Won against Romina Marenda (ITA) 22:3 in the second preliminary round; Won against Julie Irmen (GER) 15:7 in the first preliminary round
2011 – IRL-NED Women's Dual Match – 60KG Won against Willeke Verdellen (NED) 22:4
2011 – EU Women's Championships (Katowice, POL) 1st place – 60KG Won against Karolina Graczyk (POL) 25:9 in the final; Won against Chantelle Cameron (ENG) 28:10 in the semi-final; Won against Marzia Davide (ITA) 16:5 in the quarter-final; Won against Denitsa Eliseeva (BUL) 11:6 in the first preliminary round
2011 – IRL-CHN Dual Match2 – 60KG Won against Dong Cheng (CHN) 11:0
2011 – IRL-CHN Dual Match1 – 60KG Won against Dong Cheng (CHN) 6:2
2011 – Irish Women's National Championships 1st place – 60KG
2011 – Strandja Memorial Tournament (Pazardjik, BUL) 2nd place – 60KG Lost to Denitsa Eliseeva (BUL) 5:1 in the final; Won against Natasha Jonas (ENG) 6:3 in the semi-final; Won against Danuse Dilhofova (CZE) 7:0 in the quarter-final
2010 – AIBA Women’s World Championships (Bridgetown, BAR) 1st place – 60KG Won against Dong Cheng (CHN) 18:5 in the final; Won against Queen Underwood (USA) 18:16 in the semi-final; Won against Anastasiya Belyakova (RUS) 16:1 in the quarter-final; Won against Adriana Araujo (BRA) 20:5 in the second preliminary round; Won against Neetu Chahal (IND) 12:2 in the first preliminary round
2010 – EU Women’s Championships (Keszthely, HUN) 1st place – 60KG Won against Denitsa Eliseeva (BUL) 16:1 in the final; Won against Karolina Graczyk (POL) 9:3 in the semi-final; Won against Danuse Dilhofova (CZE) DQ 3rd round in the quarter-final; Won against Jennifer Miranda (ESP) 8:0 in the first preliminary round
2010 – Haringey International Tournament (Haringey, ENG) 1st place – 60KG Won against Ingrid Egner (NOR) by points in the final
2010 – Turkish Prime Ministry Tournament (Ankara, TUR) 2nd place – 60KG Lost to Claire Ghabrial (AUS) WO in the final; Won against Erkan Melek (TUR) 6:0 in the semifinal; Won against Denitsa Eliseeva (BUL) 7:0 in the quarterfinal; Won against Tasheena Bugar (GER) 10:2 in the second preliminary round; Won against Ayat Ellah (EGY) 11:0 in the first preliminary round
2010 – Grand Prix Usti nad Labem, CZE) 3rd place – 60KG Lost to Sofya Ochigava (RUS) 8:1 in the semifinal; Won against Marzia Davide (ITA) 9:0 in the quarterfinal; Won against Kosovare Buzuku (SWE) 8:0 in the first preliminary round
2010 – Irish Women’s National Championships 1st place – 60KG
2009 – European Women’s Championships (Nikolayev, UKR) 1st place – 60KG Won against Meryem Aslan Zeybek (TUR) 11:0 in the final; Won against Denitsa Eliseeva (BUL) 8:0 in the semifinal; Won against Kosovare Buzuku (SWE) AB 1st round in the quarterfinal
2009 – International Women’s Tournament (St. Petersburg, RUS) 1st place – 60KG Won against Tatyana Bondareva (RUS) 6:3 in the final; Won against Oleksandra Sidorenko (UKR) 26:11 in the semifinal; Won against Ayzanat Gadzhiyeva (RUS) 17:4 in the quarterfinal; Won against Cheng Dong (CHN) 10:2 in the first preliminary round
2009 – EU Women’s Championships (Pazardzhik, BUL) 1st place – 60KG Won against Denitsa Eliseeva (BUL) 8:1 in the final; Won against Cindy Orain (FRA) 11:2 in the semifinal; Won against Giacoma Cordio (ITA) 14:1 in the quarterfinal
2009 – Ahmet Comert Tournament (Istanbul, TUR) 1st place – 60KG Won against Ozlem Dinc (TUR) 5:1 in the final; Won against Daria Abramova (RUS) AB 4th round in the semifinal; Won against Danuse Dilhofova (CZE) 11:2 in the quarterfinal; Won against Oleksandra Sidorenko (UKR) 12:2 in the first preliminary round
2009 – IRL-USA Dual Match2 – 60KG Won against Queen Underwood (USA) RSC 2nd round
2009 – IRL-USA Dual Match1 – 60KG Won against Queen Underwood (USA) 30:3
2008 – AIBA Women’s World Championships (Ningbo, CHN) 1st place – 60KG Won against Cheng Dong (CHN) 13:2 in the final; Won against Ayzanat Gadzhiyeva (RUS) 20:2 in the semifinal; Won against Celeste Peralta (ARG) RSC 1st round in the quarterfinal; Won against Danuse Dilhofova (CZE) 4:3 in the second preliminary round; Won against Emma Carruthers (AUS) 20:3 in the first preliminary round
2008 – EU Women’s Championships (Liverpool, ENG) 1st place – 60KG Won against Cindy Orain (FRA) 10:0 in the final; Won against Sandra Kruk (POL) RSC 1st round in the semifinal
2008 – International Women’s Tournament (Stupino, RUS) 1st place – 60KG Won against Daria Abramova (RUS) 21:6 in the final; Won against Oleksandra Sidorenko (UKR) 14:4 in the semifinal; Won against Tatyana Bondareva (RUS) 12:6 in the quarterfinal; Won against Gulsum Tatar (TUR) 16:5 in the first preliminary round
2008 – IRL-SWE Women’s Dual Match – 63KG Won against Klara Svensson (SWE) 27:7
2007 – European Women’s Championships (Vejle, DEN) 1st place – 60KG Won against Sandra Bruegger (SUI) RSCO 2nd round in the final; Won against Yana Zavyalova (UKR) 11:4 in the semifinal; Won against Maria de la Guia (ESP) RSCH 1st round in the quarterfinal; Won against Christina Athanasopoulou (GRE) RSCO 2nd round in the first preliminary round
2007 – Witch Cup (Pecs, HUN) 1st place – 60KG Won against Eva Wahlstroem (FIN) RSCO 2nd round in the final; Won against Gulsum Tatar (TUR) 11:5 in the semifinal; Won against Cindy Orain (FRA) RSCO 1st round in the quarterfinal
2007 – Ahmet Comert Tournament (Istanbul, TUR) 2nd place – 60KG Lost to Gulsum Tatar (TUR) 16:13 in the final; Won against Cindy Orain (FRA) RSCO 2nd round in the semifinal; Won against Valeriya Kurluk (KAZ) RSCO 2nd round in the quarterfinal; Won against Yelena Savelyeva (RUS) RSCO 2nd round in the first preliminary round
2007 – IRL-ENG Women’s Dual Match – 63KG Won against Amanda Coulson (ENG) RSCO 2nd round
2006 – AIBA Women’s World Championships (New Delhi, IND) 1st place – 60KG Won against Annabella Farias (ARG) 31:14 in the final; Won against Tatyana Chalaya (RUS) 23:6 in the semifinal; Won against Florina Popa (ROM) RSCO 2nd round in the quarterfinal; Won against Eva Wahlstroem (FIN) RSCO 2nd round in the second preliminary round; Won against Carrie Barry (USA) RSCO 2nd round in the first preliminary round
2006 – Venus Women’s Box Cup (Vejle, DEN) 2nd place – 60KG Lost to Lucie Bertaud (FRA) WO in the final; Won against Florina Popa (ROM) RSCO 2nd round in the semifinal; Won against Malene Nielsen (DEN) RSCO 2nd round in the quarterfinal; Won against Yelena Gorshkova (RUS) 26:20 in the first preliminary round
2006 – European Women’s Championships (Warsaw, POL) 1st place – 60KG Won against Tatyana Chalaya (RUS) RSCO 2nd round in the final; Won against Gulsum Tatar (TUR) 18:15 in the semifinal; Won against Florina Popa (ROM) 5:0 in the quarterfinal; Won against Teuta Cuni (SWE) RSCO 2nd round in the first preliminary round
2006 – Witch Cup (Pecs, HUN) 1st place – 60KG Won against Eva Wahlstroem (FIN) RSCO 2nd round in the final; Won against Malene Nielsen (DEN) RSCO 2nd round in the semifinal; Won against Edina Pezdany (HUN) RSC 1st round in the quarterfinal
2006 – EU Women’s Championships (Porto Torres, ITA) 5th place – 60KG Lost to Gulsum Tatar (TUR) 21:13 in the quarterfinal
2006 – Norway Box Cup (Oslo, NOR) 1st place – 60KG Won against Dina Burger (SUI) 27:25 in the final; Won against Lucie Bertaud (FRA) WO in the semifinal
2005 – CAN-IRL Dual Match2 – 60KG Draw against Marianne Millar (CAN)
2005 – CAN-IRL Dual Match1 – 60KG Won against Sandra Bizier (CAN) 3:2
2005 – AIBA Women’s World Championships (Podolsk, RUS) 7th place – 60KG Lost to Kang Kum Hui (PRK) 28:13 in the quarterfinal; Won against Pranamika Borah (IND) 34:22 in the first preliminary round
2005 – European Women’s Championships (Tonsberg, NOR) 1st place – 60KG Won against Eva Wahlstroem (FIN) 19:17 in the final; Won against Gulsum Tatar (TUR) 12+:12 in the semifinal; Won against Lucie Bertaud (FRA) RSCO 2nd round in the quarterfinal
2004 – European Women’s Championships (Riccone, ITA) participant – 60KG Lost to Yuliya Nemtsova (RUS) 27:12 in the first preliminary round
2004 – Torneo Italia Women's Tournament (Cascia, ITA) 1st place – 60KG Won against Jennifer Ogg (CAN) 41:30 in the final; Won against Eva Wahlstroem (FIN) 39:25 in the semifinal; Won against Emanuela Pantani (ITA) 22:6 in the quarterfinal
2004 – Norway Box Cup (Oslo, NOR) 1st place – 60KG Won against Josefina Tengroth (SWE) RSCO 2nd round in the final; Won against Ingrid Egner (NOR) 26:12 in the semifinal
some serious senior elite boxing going on there !0 -
Yes it is. Boxing is also about getting hit. Try doing corner for (or even being) an 8 year old who is crying after the first round of his first or second fight but who still goes back in for another two rounds. Plenty of people cannot and choose not to handle that.
If you get tired running, you walk home. Even the best in marathons. If you get tired boxing, you get smacked around. The 'field' of those who run is large because it's easy to do. The level of athletes at the top is tiny because it's difficult to be good at. Same with soccer. Anyone can kick a ball around.
So running marathons is easy to do ? Im sorry... but what planet do you live on ? Maybe if you weigh 7 stone and have an 9ft stride.
Same can be said with boxing, anyone can throw a punch and take a hit, throw in the towel... i've done it (Not the throwing in the towel part), fat/skinning/small/tall/weak/strong kids i knew growing up have done it. Katie isn't exactly fighting "Wars" like some professionals. Its amateur Boxing, amateur Rugby is rougher and more intense than amateur boxing fs.26 million golfers? No way. If there are 26 million golfers in the US than anyone who has ever run for a bus is a runner or anyone who has driven a car is a rally driver. Rory McIlroy or Katie are not in the 0.000x of their sport. Fun runners and fun golfers (or fun boxers) don't count.
You'd be surprised how many fun "Golfers" take part in tournaments and such. Yes most of them are not professionals, but that is only because the level at which you have to be to be a professional in sports like golf/football is so high. Like any sport you have to be the best of the best to be considered elite (Like Katie is). There are probably as many people boxing as there are playing golf, but there are just so many divisions in boxing that unlike golf, there is never a number 1 ranked person in the world overall. Katie is the best, in a very small subgroup (60kg) of an slightly bigger subgroup (female boxing). Compared to Rory mac who is ranked 2nd in his sport, with no subgroups or divisions separating him from other elite players (Even women have competed in the mens golf tournaments iirc).And even if we go with your argument about the level of competition, then only soccer players can be considered elite. Only. No one else. More people play football than anyone else in the world.
My argument about the level of competition has nothing to do with who can be considered elite... like I've said previously, Elite sportsmen and women are those that are at the highest level of their field, Rory Mac is an elite golfer... Katie Taylor is an elite women's boxer, Roy Keane was an elite football player. Its quite simple really. The argument about the level of competition is just an indication of how difficult and rare it is to be the best at that sport, if you can't grasp that concept then don't reply to me because i'd be wasting my time talking to you.0 -
In my opinion, if she was a male and achieved the same level there would be no doubt. So why is there a doubt?
No she wouldn't....
Male amateur boxing is a huge level below professional. Would you really rate some1's achievements who won an olympic gold over those of Jimmy McLarnin or Steve Collins ?
Audley Harrison won a gold medal.. yet was **** at pro level.0 -
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In my opinion, if she was a male and achieved the same level there would be no doubt. So why is there a doubt?
I know it's not exactly the same, but people doubt the Klitschko's even though they have been dominant for ages.
Also,I'm not exactly the only person who sees womens sport as inferior to mens. You just need to look at the money and attendances for any of them with a few exceptions0
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