Is Katie Taylor Ireland best athlete

walshb

04072511 wrote: »

IMO Katie is not near this level of sporting excellence. On has to take a look at the quality of opposition and profile of the sport also when analysing these things.

Not near? So, now it's from not the best to "not near."

I have no issue with Sonia numero uno. But to say Katie is not near, a boxer who has been p4p best for 5-6 years now, well, that is ludicrous.

Quality of opposition? So, tell us then?

All you seem to be going on is "more people run." Katie has met women from all over planet earth. Of course more women will run, more men do too, because the sport of boxing is not for everyone. Only the elite and those with a different constitution take it up and excel in it. Rememeber, it's the world toughest sport.

Katie Taylor has proven herself time and time again, and met many fierce competitors from all over the world. The sport is global. Fair enough, 5-6 years ago you could come out with your excuse. It's a bit stale and lame now.

walshb

04072511 wrote: »

Winning medals at major championships in athletics is tough. Very tough. You’ve got Jamaicans, African Americans, Ethiopians, Kenyans, drugged up Russians
I could go on and on but you get the point.
.

Who ever said it wasn't tough, and Katie meets women from all over the world too, you know?

Taylor has won every medal there is, multiple times, and no wins were walks in the park. She had to fight and beat women from all over the world.

Oh, but the usual excuse will be trotted out, "more women run."

Sonia to me is exceptional, nothing but respect. Would not argue as her being number 1. I just think Taylor is that bit better.

barney4001

walshb wrote: »

Who ever said it wasn't tough, and Katie meets women from all over the world too, you know?

Taylor has won every medal there is, multiple times, and no wins were walks in the park. She had to fight and beat women from all over the world.

Oh, but the usual excuse will be trotted out, "more women run."

Sonia to me is exceptional, nothing but respect. Would not argue as her being number 1. I just think Taylor is that bit better.

Katie has to be best ever,who else has won 13 gold at highest levels of their sport

walshb

barney4001 wrote: »

Katie has to be best ever,who else has won 13 gold at highest levels of their sport

Barney, I agree, but to some them medals were all won against nobodies. No competition, blah blah blah!

supersean1999

walshb wrote: »

Barney, I agree, but to some them medals were all won against nobodies. No competition, blah blah blah!

jesus just because we dont agree she is the best EVER does not mean we are saying she is crap,

walshb

supersean1999 wrote: »

jesus just because we dont agree she is the best EVER does not mean we are saying she is crap,

And where did I infer that anyone said or thought that she's crap? I am well aware that many of those who don't call her the GOAT do respect and admire her.

I have said many times that I have no issue with anyone thinking someone else is better. I just debated certain points about opposition, depth of competition etc etc. Isn't that the whole point of a GOAT debate. We debate and reason and disagree and give our opinion.

cowzerp

supersean1999 wrote: »

jesus just because we dont agree she is the best EVER does not mean we are saying she is crap,

Been honest her achievements are matched by nobody from Ireland-she fights against the best in the world and beats them, same as any sport-if this is not good enough then we can go the route no woman should be on the list because they cant beat men etc etc-in her categorary she out does anyone else in their categorary's.

Boxing is the toughest sport and takes fitness, heart, skill and she excels in it

No 1 by far, Sonia was great but not as consistent as Katie or was she world champ 3-4 times.

supersean1999

cowzerp wrote: »

Been honest her achievements are matched by nobody from Ireland-she fights against the best in the world and beats them, same as any sport-if this is not good enough then we can go the route no woman should be on the list because they cant beat men etc etc-in her categorary she out does anyone else in their categorary's.

Boxing is the toughest sport and takes fitness, heart, skill and she excels in it

No 1 by far, Sonia was great but not as consistent as Katie or was she world champ 3-4 times.

nonsense, when you mulpiply the competition , ie numbers of opponents things are harder in different sports, AGREE?? so being first against say 100 does not mean its better than 5th out of 20000, its impossible to say for sure who is the best athlete, looking at a persons achievments in different sports is hard, its often said about boxers , you cant compare different era so its harder compare different sports,, so its all a personal opinion , i personally am not a massive racing fan , but i think mc coy is unreal and irelands best
thats all i can add, have a good day lads

cowzerp

supersean1999 wrote: »

nonsense, when you mulpiply the competition , ie numbers of opponents things are harder in different sports, AGREE?? so being first against say 100 does not mean its better than 5th out of 20000, its impossible to say for sure who is the best athlete, looking at a persons achievments in different sports is hard, its often said about boxers , you cant compare different era so its harder compare different sports,, so its all a personal opinion , i personally am not a massive racing fan , but i think mc coy is unreal and irelands best
thats all i can add, have a good day lads

No, Katie only fights the best, as does Sonia o sullivan only compete against the best-the rest don't count as they are not competitive with them, top 10-15 and after that forget it.

unless now your trying to say the best soccer player has to be better than the best Boxer because more people do Soccer-That's Nonsense.

walshb

supersean1999 wrote: »

nonsense, when you mulpiply the competition , ie numbers of opponents things are harder in different sports, AGREE?? so being first against say 100 does not mean its better than 5th out of 20000, its impossible to say for sure who is the best athlete, looking at a persons achievments in different sports is hard, its often said about boxers , you cant compare different era so its harder compare different sports,, so its all a personal opinion , i personally am not a massive racing fan , but i think mc coy is unreal and irelands best
thats all i can add, have a good day lads

McCoy is an excellent mention.

1st out of 100 is better than 5th out of any number.

Of course more people run, but from that large number, many are just making up the numbers. Why should Katie be penalised because her sport is one that not as many compete in? She is still consistently the best on earth.

deconduo

walshb wrote: »

Running is running. We all can do it, some just for longer and faster than others.

And boxing is just hitting people, we can all do that too. Oh don't forget soccer is just kicking a ball. And sure anyone can swim a few laps of the pool. :rolleyes:

These sort of debates are just back and forth arguments over an arbitrary title. You simply cannot compare achievements in completely different sports to each other. Katie, Sonia, Keane, O'Driscoll, Harrington etc. are all amazing athletes that have had a hugely positive impact on sport in Ireland. Why not just leave it at that.

Spazdarn

walshb wrote: »

1st out of 100 is better than 5th out of any number.

I don't agree with this at all, there's no way that being first at anything quantifies you as being a better athlete than an athlete in another field.

If I come first in the egg and spoon race beating a hundred other dopes that puts no weight behind a claim that I'm better than the guy who finished 5th best in boxer/swimming etc...

Pisco Sour

walshb wrote: »

Rememeber, it's the world toughest sport.

Oh will you give over. That ranking list is about as credible as Michelle Smith's Olympic medals. Did you notice the fact your were argueing the credibility of those tables against about 10 people on the athletics thread, with not one person backing you up? I wonder why.

megadodge

It seems the logic being used by some here is if you compete in a minority sport you can't possibly be 'better'/'greater' than someone competing in a more popular sport. Simply because more people partake negates everything the 'lesser' sport participant achieves???

I disagree strongly. And one of the main reasons is because the greatest Irish sportsperson I've ever seen (either 'live' or on TV) is someone most of you will never even have heard of - Paul Brady.

He is the reigning 3-time World Handball Champion. The World Championships are only held every 3 years and nobody else has ever won it more than once. They are being held again this year and NOBODY stands a chance against him. He has obliterated international opposition for the last 9 years. He has won 9 out of the last 10 All-Irelands. His level of consistency and performance leaves virtually everyone who sees him play live speechless in terms of how to describe how good he is - and that includes loads of the 'good old days' types who show a welcome lack of sentimentalism when discussing this man.

I could go on, but I don't believe any words I use could possibly describe how good he is to the uninitiated. You can see him on Youtube, but to be brutally honest handball doesn't translate that well onto the screen. You really have to see him 'live' to appreciate his unique blend of power, speed, grace, intelligence and outrageous skill.

Paul Brady - genius!

walshb

megadodge wrote: »

Paul Brady - genius!

megadodge, are you Paul Brady?

walshb

ToiletFusion wrote: »

I don't agree with this at all, there's no way that being first at anything quantifies you as being a better athlete than an athlete in another field.

If I come first in the egg and spoon race beating a hundred other dopes that puts no weight behind a claim that I'm better than the guy who finished 5th best in boxer/swimming etc...

The only way to solve this is to do as Harry Hill does, FIGHT!

My point on the 1st out of 100 is that in the case of Katie, her sport may not have the same amount of participants as some other sports, but it is still global, and still growing. And, she is the best of the best. So, Derval O'Rourke, for exampale, is not better than Taylor. Derval is top class, world standard, but has not done the business like Taylor in that consistent a fashion. Taylor has been the best for many years now.

I don't see any woman being as dominant as her ever.

And, megadodge's post backs this up.

megadodge

walshb wrote: »

megadodge, are you Paul Brady?

Nope. Just a handball fanatic.

Dots1982

walshb wrote: »

Yourwellcum wrote: »

Seriously, stick to a sport you know something about because you know very little about football if this is really your opinion

So, enlighten me, expert?

What was Keane? I said what I think he was, care to add?

the most successful ever captain of the 2nd or 3rd biggest football club in the world

nuff said

Patsy fyre

Roy Keane is an absolute legend. Comparing his achievements in world football to Katie Taylors in women's boxing is just laughable.

People have short memories. How many footballers are in the world? How many female boxers in the world?

God the sh1te that gets talked about in here.

walshb

Patsy fyre wrote: »

How many footballers are in the world? How many female boxers in the world?

God the sh1te that gets talked about in here.

Excellent way to solve this puzzle. Yes, plenty of sh1te talk alright.

walshb

I have a better way to solve it. Add up all the pro players in the world and divide by 11. Then discount pretty much most of the leagues, as the standard is crap, and then arrive at a figure. Might even things up a little.

irelandrover

To me it would be Sonia, I'd put Katie second considering what she has done in boxing but also that she has played at the top in soccer also, make her a fantastic athlete. Keane would be a bit down the list, great player but i do think he gets overestimated, like people saying he basically won United the champions league on his own. He didnt even play the final

walshb

irelandrover wrote: »

To me it would be Sonia, I'd put Katie second considering what she has done in boxing but also that she has played at the top in soccer also, make her a fantastic athlete. Keane would be a bit down the list, great player but i do think he gets overestimated, like people saying he basically won United the champions league on his own. He didnt even play the final

Absolutely. He almost cost them the title by not being in the final. That was my point with Keane, his temperamnet was poor. The thuggish element in his game cost games as well as won them. Anyway, there was a hell of team with Keane thgru the years. They had many great players on that team. Schmeichel, Gigggs, Scholes, Becks, Neville, Cantona, Kanchelskis, Irwin etc.

Spazdarn

walshb wrote: »

I have a better way to solve it. Add up all the pro players in the world and divide by 11. Then discount pretty much most of the leagues, as the standard is crap, and then arrive at a figure. Might even things up a little.

You discounting specific leagues is exactly like people discounting women's boxing because they deem it the quality of the opposition relatively poor...

Spazdarn

walshb wrote: »

Absolutely. He almost cost them the title by not being in the final. That was my point with Keane, his temperamnet was poor. The thuggish element in his game cost games as well as won them. Anyway, there was a hell of team with Keane thgru the years. They had many great players on that team. Schmeichel, Gigggs, Scholes, Becks, Neville, Cantona, Kanchelskis, Irwin etc.

Lads I'd say you've forgotten the whole European campaign that led up to the win, the league campaign that gets you into said competition and the night Keane destroyed Juventus to get them to the final. Very selective memories.

The yellow card he received that put him out of the final had no thuggery involved.

Alex Ferguson said Keane in Juventus was the greatest individual performance he's ever seen..

Patsy fyre

1 in 50000 footballers ever reach the professional level. It could be said that's a greater achievement than winning a women's boxing tournament.

irelandrover

ToiletFusion wrote: »

Lads I'd say you've forgotten the whole European campaign that led up to the win, the league campaign that gets you into said competition and the night Keane destroyed Juventus to get them to the final. Very selective memories.

The yellow card he received that put him out of the final had no thuggery involved.

Alex Ferguson said Keane in Juventus was the greatest individual performance he's ever seen..

Yeah, he was fantastic up to that point. But you can't really say he won it by himself when he wasn't even playing the final. People remember that performance against Juventus and credit Keane for the Champions league in my opinion. United had a fantastic squad that year.

Dublin Red Devil

Looks like she is our only hope for a Gold medal at the Olympics for Ireland. But that will put massive pressure on her. She has the weight of a nations expectations on her shoulders.
I wish her the best off luck.

makl

Patsy fyre wrote: »

1 in 50000 footballers ever reach the professional level. It could be said that's a greater achievement than winning a women's boxing tournament.

here we go again.

you determine the quality of an athlete by the depth of the field of their sport?

so, padraig harrington? muck.
rory mcilroy? muck
brian o driscoll? muck.
shefflin and dj? muck.

good way of lookin at it.

walshb

ToiletFusion wrote: »

You discounting specific leagues is exactly like people discounting women's boxing because they deem it the quality of the opposition relatively poor...

I was expecting this kind of reply. I see whether you are coming from. Anyway, you rate Keane, I doo too. I just do not rate him higher than some.
Very good player.

Katie is a WC 3 times in an individual sport.

One could say that footballers are far more plentiful than male boxeres too, and males in many other sports. It's an illogical way to discuss the GOAT to me.

Keane is one of a 22 squad. One of many many players in his position in several top class leagues. He was one of the best (opinion), but Katie is/was THE best.

I tend to lend a deal more weight to an individual athlete. Keane does not compare to Sonia either for me, or Roche, or Kelly. And I know cyclists have a team, but it's still an individual sport. One man wins and one man prevails.