South County GC Closed

Russman

True enough, but will the members be ready to write off what they're owed and fork out more cash to what in their eyes will essentially be the same entity or club ? I know they've no chance of getting it back anyway, but they might be more inclined to leave their money with a different, maybe more established club. If someone dropped €1,000 last week on a membership I very much doubt they'll easily part with another.

Plus getting the cash to pump into a club for the running costs is no easy task in the current climate. Most suppliers will likely insist on COD given whats happened. Will the landlord sell the land ? Will the banks give backing ?

There are too many variables IMO, of course if they got lucky and the stars lined up in the right way, its doable on paper, but in practical terms I doubt it.

I'd love to be wrong for the SC members but I think it boils down to supply and demand - too many courses, not enough members.

carman2011

looking at some other options, best one to me seems to be killeen, a smashing course , just down the N7, offering €1,500 inc 100 bar levy to end of 2013.
deffo worth a look imo.
just been on to them, they have blocked booked from 12.30 to 2.30 this sunday for anyone from south county who would like to try out the course for free.
(you have the option of paying this 1500 over 10 months)

they seem to have similar set up to SC also, ladies comps on the tues, men and ladies comps on the sat (and men and woman can play together, and mens comps on a sunday

carman2011

Redzah wrote: »

Jaysus, its hard to dechiper the truth in this.

I'd imagine the landlord didn't budge on the rent when it became obvious that a reduction was necessary to keep the course open so they definately have to take some blame despite the fact that they were perfectly entitled to the full rent under the terms of the lease, kind of a short term pain for long term gain dilemma. The board of management also should take some of the blame for what appears to be overspending in recent times as they were unable to run a club within it's means which is highlighted by an accumulated losses balance.

It is hard to ascertain if the 60 members in question continued to play in SC from Jan - Apr and then did not pay or if they indicated to the board that they were not renewing in Jan. By the sound of it the former happened in which case the 60 members in question conned the board to get 4 months free golf and this contributed to the demise of the club along with the other factors above.

Its all very interesting and basically it appears that in my unbiased opinion that an unfortunate series of events for which different parties are to blame resulted in the closing of this club.

whilst new members subs run from jan - dec, a lot of the old members subs ran from may-apr

Whyner

Russman wrote: »

I think it boils down to supply and demand - too many courses, not enough members.

Yes, but the most popular club in Ireland would sink if managed very poorly

Russman

carman2011 wrote: »

offering €1,159 inc 100 bar levy to end of 2013.

Sounds decent alright, but you'd have to wonder with an offer like that, will there be a 2013.........
Smells of "we need cash and we need it now" IMO.


Or maybe I'm getting too cynical with all this.

GreeBo

fennetec wrote: »

Like I say, if it was a good club yesterday it can be a good club tomorrow

It might be a good club, but it appears to be a poor business. You cant have one without the other I'm afraid.
It seems that the membership couldnt support the cost of keeping it as a good club.

moycullen14

Whyner wrote: »

Yes, but the most popular club in Ireland would sink if managed very poorly

I have nothing to do with SC - I'm from the other side of the country - and had never even heard of it before this thread that, I must admit, has scared me in relation to my own club.

Whatever happened or didn't happen, the structure of the club and it's high cost base AND loan obligations means that failure was inevitable. I've seen membership in our own club dwindle by 50-100 per year, every year from the last 3-4 years. Now we're lucky as we have no debt and have control over our variable costs but the time is coming when the club is not sustainable unless we close all the facilities bar the course and start cutting the grass ourselves! If that happens, I'm not sure whether we'll survive or not.

It must be getting to the point where some courses are more valuable as agricultural land? It is hard to see how you could pay rent of 100-200K pa on a golf course and survive in this climate.

It's not the best run courses that will survive, it's the best structured and appointed ones. And that includes the NAMA ones!

link_2007

Russman wrote: »

Sounds decent alright, but you'd have to wonder with an offer like that, will there be a 2013.........
Smells of "we need cash and we need it now" IMO.


Or maybe I'm getting too cynical with all this.

You better get in quick - it's already gone up to €1,500 :eek:

carman2011

link_2007 wrote: »

You better get in quick - it's already gone up to €1,500 :eek:

yeah, my bad initially, the 1159 was for one year, the special for SC members only was 1500 to end 2013, effectively u are getting the rest of 2012 for 340.
(inc 100 in the bar)

link_2007

carman2011 wrote: »

yeah, my bad initially, the 1159 was for one year, the special for SC members only was 1500 to end 2013, effectively u are getting the rest of 2012 for 340.
(inc 100 in the bar)

Do you think there would be any negotiation possible over the number of months you could pay the sub? I just don't have €150 a month to spare for the next 10 months.

Alrite Chief

Todays announcement screams 'run a mile!!!'. All the best SCGC good luck and **** you.

scubapro

Any members up for playing on Sunday

carman2011

ive a line filled at 12.52 in killeen on sunday, theres scope for free SC outing there between 12.30 and 2.30 on a lovely course, so people feel free to phone them and book a slot.

Whyner

carman2011 wrote: »

ive a line filled at 12.52 in killeen on sunday, theres scope for free SC outing there between 12.30 and 2.30 on a lovely course, so people feel free to phone them and book a slot.

Sweet, booked in also. Thanks a lot.

Russman

link_2007 wrote: »

Do you think there would be any negotiation possible over the number of months you could pay the sub? I just don't have €150 a month to spare for the next 10 months.

I'd say you'd get better value looking for somewhere that would do a deal for the remainder of this year. I know the SV offer is something along those lines. You could then deal with where you play next year over the coming months.

Alrite Chief

Rathsalagh also looking forward to meeting SC members. They are putting a package together this evening and wish to let members know they are offering free slots for the next 2 weeks.

Dtoffee

My only input for those of you unfortunate enough to have lost your investments ........ DONT MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE AGAIN.

Rest assured theres plenty of clubs out there willing to take advantage of you in the very same way again. Join a members owned course if you want some security, its the oldest piece of advice I got and its still relative today.

Any course offering too much free smells of desperation to me.

Best of luck to each and every one of you and I hope you get sorted as you may only be the first in a long line of golfers suffering course closures.

carman2011

ive rang a few places now, and they all seem extremely keen to offer very good deals for both this and next year, and i've a few nice games lined up to try out courses.
(obv going forward, a spot of auditing on the accounts will be needed along with looking at basic prices , location, standard of course, competitiveness of teams/competitions etc)

dec01666

I have been a member of South County since late 2006 and have very much enjoyed the course, many of the ordinary members and of course have been always treated really well by Ramie and all his staff.
I always felt very much on the periphery of the club though and always felt that there were certain members who ran the place like it was their own little fifedom!
I was horified to receive the txt on Tuesday morning and to be honest I went into a bit of a spin. Now that I've had a few days to digest this news and to read the various comments on this board, I personally feel that the gloss has gone off the place. Back in 2006 I made a decision to join a club and at the time couldn't afford to join some of the more affordable clubs closer to my home.
I have decided to apply for membership of another club which is nearer my home, has been established for nearly 50 years and has a stable membership base.
I have paid out over €14,000 to South County since 2006 and have been burnt....I can't go back.
Good luck to all former members, I hope things work out.

Russman

Dtoffee wrote: »

Join a members owned course if you want some security, its the oldest piece of advice I got and its still relative today.QUOTE]

big +1

Timbertop

Alrite Chief wrote: »

Rathsalagh also looking forward to meeting SC members. They are putting a package together this evening and wish to let members know they are offering free slots for the next 2 weeks.

Thank you for highlighting that. We sincerely hope that you can resolve your difficulties or find a solution at SCGC. In the meantime we have made some tee times available on a complimentary bases and without any obligation to members of SCGC. Even if you never intend to look at another Golf Club other than your own , come and get away from it all here for a few hours. Details can be found on our web site , follow the link “Message to South County Members “

Redzah

Alrite Chief wrote: »

Rathsalagh also looking forward to meeting SC members. They are putting a package together this evening and wish to let members know they are offering free slots for the next 2 weeks.

I heard its a nice spot in Rathsallagh alright, i've no idea of their financial predicament or ownership though so have a good look obviously. Also, no matter where you join demand to pay over the course of the year on a monthly basis instead of in an upfront lump sum. This will act as your insurance policy!!

Would Druids Heath be too far for some South County members to join? If there's a group of you interested who are living on the south side of dublin i'm sure they'd offer something decent for you, i can have a word with them there and get back to you if there's an interest from you guys? I'm delighted with my decision to join there and the direct debit option means i'm happy i'm not taking much of a risk financially, course is always immaculate as well and there's a good bunch of lads who would be very welcoming.

Gambino

I am told that Patrick Kavanagh is arranging a meeting on Monday evening next at the Avon Ri Hotel/Resort in Blessington, at which he will present his plans for a new club at South County.

I am also told that the course was open today and in good condition.

Gambino

Dtoffee wrote: »

My only input for those of you unfortunate enough to have lost your investments ........ DONT MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE AGAIN.

Rest assured theres plenty of clubs out there willing to take advantage of you in the very same way again. Join a members owned course if you want some security, its the oldest piece of advice I got and its still relative today.

Any course offering too much free smells of desperation to me.

Best of luck to each and every one of you and I hope you get sorted as you may only be the first in a long line of golfers suffering course closures.

DT - South County was a members owned course but that only works if you have sensible members.

fennetec

I have called up to the club and asked that all members be notified of the meeting on Monday evening from the database on the clubs computer and while Mr Diskin was there I was informed that this could only be done by another board member. I wrote out the meeting details and was told they would be forwarded to the person concerned for circulation but as yet this has not happened.

http://www.southcountygolf.ie/mysitecaddy/site3/currentnews.htm?item=14257

The above is rubbish and does not excuse certain actions. <mod edit>. There is an air of " I own the club now" about the land owner, and he is welcome to it but if he wants to own the members as well he is going to have to make allowances for those who have paid in advance and who have been stung. I would discourage anyone from paying €10 to play. If he had any sense at all he would allow free golf to those who were paid up members until after meeting us as a group, otherwise he will sink as fast as a slice into the Lisheen river. He must meet all the members and if both parties think that there will be no objection to their preferred liquidator as opposed to a hostile one who will have our interests in mind then they are mistaken. The creditors meeting for shareholders and a seperate one for creditors are one thing but unless they meet us as a group I will be the one sending out debt collectors to their homes for the return of my money.

Gambino

I think the new owner/landlord is open to any ideas. He seems well aware of the importance of holding as many members as possible together and that would include "preferential rates" for existing members as an interim step to forming a new club.

As per the Captains email, the golf committees are working to keep things going, while the legal, financial and technical issues are resolved.

By all means people should look at other clubs but I wouldn't give up on South County just yet.

Gambino

Redzah wrote: »

I heard its a nice spot in Rathsallagh alright, i've no idea of their financial predicament or ownership though so have a good look obviously. Also, no matter where you join demand to pay over the course of the year on a monthly basis instead of in an upfront lump sum. This will act as your insurance policy!!

Would Druids Heath be too far for some South County members to join? If there's a group of you interested who are living on the south side of dublin i'm sure they'd offer something decent for you, i can have a word with them there and get back to you if there's an interest from you guys? I'm delighted with my decision to join there and the direct debit option means i'm happy i'm not taking much of a risk financially, course is always immaculate as well and there's a good bunch of lads who would be very welcoming.

Rathsallagh is a fine course - just a bit too far for me on a regular basis. Druids Heath is an option but if I was going there I think I would go the whole hog and join Druids Glen. The "Naas Rd" options are also worth looking at. I'm told Beech Park will be courting us and I'm sure Killeen, and Castlewarden won't be far behind. There is also Glen of the Downs out that way. All are available as is Edmonstown, but they still want big money, although not right away. There is plenty of choice if it comes to that but my preference would still be to stay at South County.

BigChap1759

I've still not seen any reply regarding the removal of the equipment and plant - anyone know what the legal slant on this is?

thegen

I could not bring myself to pay €10.00 to play southcounty. I would also have a problem going forward if cdrtain members of the board were to remain as members of any newly formed club. If the toxic board members were to go I would consider staying. I am not alone in this way of thinking.

fennetec

Gambino wrote: »

I think the new owner/landlord is open to any ideas. He seems well aware of the importance of holding as many members as possible together and that would include "preferential rates" for existing members as an interim step to forming a new club.

As per the Captains email, the golf committees are working to keep things going, while the legal, financial and technical issues are resolved.

By all means people should look at other clubs but I wouldn't give up on South County just yet.

Correct, he seems well aware of getting as many members as possible but what he is not aware of at all is that the members need to dictate how the club will be run and if he thinks that the outgoing board of directors are returning under another guise and his command and that we will follow like ducks in a line then his awareness is at a very low level before he starts because the only way I will walk in a line like ducks is across the road and up to Beech Park.