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South County GC Closed
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Er... I think you will find a meeting was my idea. I suggested before anyone else way back on page 9 ok
My but we are a bit prickley. And I though Ronan was supposed to be the big ego tripper in this circus tent. If you want to take credit in calling for a meeting, be my guest. As for the "unofficial" bit, I think Pat just meant preliminary or initial notice of a meeting. I don't think he would claim to be a wordsmith.0 -
Good for youAlrite Chief wrote: »
Er... I think you will find a meeting was my idea. I suggested before anyone else way back on page 9 ok
My but we are a bit prickley. And I though Ronan was supposed to be the big ego tripper in this circus tent. If you want to take credit in calling for a meeting, be my guest. As for the "unofficial" bit, I think Pat just meant preliminary or initial notice of a meeting. I don't think he would claim to be a wordsmith.0 -
Gambino, as an independent observer who's read this whole thread you come across as an absolute w**ker. Any affiliation the likes of you would have with any club would make me run a mile.
From my reading of the situation the unfortunate reality is its time to look elsewhere. Good luck to all.0 -
Thanks. As we know, facts are much less important in this fiasco than peoples' opinions of each other. I'm sure your valuable contribution will be welcomed by several of the participants.Gambino, as an independent observer who's read this whole thread you come across as an absolute w**ker. Any affiliation the likes of you would have with any club would make me run a mile.
From my reading of the situation the unfortunate reality is its time to look elsewhere. Good luck to all.0 -
I think thegen is a bit of a conspiracy theorist. He has already accused me of being Tom, Ronan or a composite of the entire board.
Incidentally there is a report that Tom Fahey has had a heart attack but this is not confirmed.
Not a conspiracy theorist at all. Your views are just so swayed towards the people who have screwed us all over, that's all.0 -
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My but we are a bit prickley. And I though Ronan was supposed to be the big ego tripper in this circus tent. If you want to take credit in calling for a meeting, be my guest. As for the "unofficial" bit, I think Pat just meant preliminary or initial notice of a meeting. I don't think he would claim to be a wordsmith.
And even if the meeting was your idea, Pat is still the one people will be coming to hear.
It's Jimmy😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉0 -
Not a conspiracy theorist at all. Your views are just so swayed towards the people who have screwed us all over, that's all.
Screwed over is right and there are a hell of a lot of questions that need to be answered for example:
Did the Kavanaghs have the right to take posession of the land before the company was formally wound up?
How and when were the Kavanaghs informed that the Board had decided to cut and run without calling an EGM?
Were the Board not required to call an EGM prior to closing up the clubhouse, changing the locks?
Who was responsible for moving the machinery?
Who has provided the Kavanaghs with keys to the clubhouse and use of the pro-shop phone to take bookings?
What are the data protection implications of the Kavanaghs having access to the members' database?
Perhaps legal advice should be taken prior to meeting with and making any committments to the Kavanaghs.0 -
Not a conspiracy theorist at all. Your views are just so swayed towards the people who have screwed us all over, that's all.
Screwed over is right and there are a hell of a lot of questions that need to be answered for example:
Did the Kavanaghs have the right to take posession of the land before the company was formally wound up?
How and when were the Kavanaghs informed that the Board had decided to cut and run without calling an EGM?
Were the Board not required to call an EGM prior to changing the locks?
Who has provided the Kavanaghs with keys to the clubhouse and use of the pro-shop phone to take bookings?
What are the data protection implications of the Kavanaghs having access to the members' database?
Perhaps legal advice should be taken prior to meeting with and making any committments to the Kavanaghs.
I have a suggestion concerning Tuesday. There should be a room set side for those who want to shout insults at the board, demand their money back, say it wasn't their fault that the club ran out of money because they didn't pay their subs, shout insults at the Kavanaghs, demand their money back again and accuse the world in general of being unfair. Effigies and pins can be supplied, as can directions back to planet earth.
The adults can gather in another room and get on with it. An indication of numbers for each room would help.0 -
I have a suggestion concerning Tuesday. There should be a room set side for those who want to shout insults at the board, demand their money back, say it wasn't their fault that the club ran out of money because they didn't pay their subs, shout insults at the Kavanaghs, demand their money back again and accuse the world in general of being unfair. Effigies and pins can be supplied, as can directions back to planet earth.
The adults can gather in another room and get on with it. An indication of numbers for each room would help.
What has your post got to do with the questions I posed? They are valid questions if you know the answers do enlighten us. We are well aware of your opinions on what caused the club to close and of your unquestioning support for the board.0 -
Unquestioning support, absolutely not. But some sympathy for people who gave freely of their time and huge effort in the best interests of the club and who got nothing but abuse, belligerence and sabotage in return.I have a suggestion concerning Tuesday. There should be a room set side for those who want to shout insults at the board, demand their money back, say it wasn't their fault that the club ran out of money because they didn't pay their subs, shout insults at the Kavanaghs, demand their money back again and accuse the world in general of being unfair. Effigies and pins can be supplied, as can directions back to planet earth.
The adults can gather in another room and get on with it. An indication of numbers for each room would help.
What has your post got to do with the questions I posed? They are valid questions if you know the answers do enlighten us. We are well aware of your opinions on what caused the club to close and of your unquestioning support for the board.
The questions you raise are valid. They are also trivial and irrelevant to the future.0 -
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How is questioning the legality or otherwise of the actions taken by the board or landowners or whoever, trivial ?
Certain rules for certain people ? Or just the convent rules ?0 -
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Unquestioning support, absolutely not. But some sympathy for people who gave freely of their time and huge effort in the best interests of the club and who got nothing but abuse, belligerence and sabotage in return.
The questions you raise are valid. They are also trivial and irrelevant to the future.
As someone with no affiliation to SC I find some of your posts astonishing.
Perhaps you could elaborate a little more on your sabotage allegation. I think that Raymie Burns, one of many innocent victims in this sorry affair, would have a greater claim to sabotage if the stories about his computer are true.
I'm also intrigued by the statement issued yesterday stating that the loss of 60 members forced the closure. By my calculations when you deduct the bar levy, insurance and GUI affiliation from the annual sub these 60 members would have contributed approximately 90,000 euro. While this money would have delayed the inevitable it would only have kept the club open for 2/3 months at most. The writing was obviously on the wall a long time ago but those that were aware of the situation failed to take the necessary action.
From what I can gather much of the anger stems from the fact that the ordinary members were kept in the dark about the situation. They were not given the opportunity to save their golf club having invested their hard earned money and valuable time in the club.0 -
Gambino, you have officially joined the group including Ronan, John, Tom (Wish him all the best in his recovery) and Graham and if your or any one of them are involved in The Southcounty GC going forward I'm out, BTW the name is owned by the members, so it cannot be used going forward if it is not supported. I hope you do the decent thing fir the club as you so like it and go somewhere else.0
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your questions are quite valid vikingdub but one you didn't ask is why did a company board that had no problem calling an egm and asking for 1.2 million only 4 years ago, decide amongst themselves that they alone could declare the company insolvent for the sake of 120 subcriptions, which by my estimation comes to less than 200,000 euro...
bearing in mind that the 1.2 m was raised within weeks it is not unreasonable that we should have been given the option of further financial commitment as we will all need to spend a greater sum in order to play golf for the rest of this year.
this is the more pertinent question as on the face of it this board has acted in its own interest or someone elses but certainly not the shareholder whom they were elected to represent...0 -
your questions are quite valid vikingdub but one you didn't ask is why did a company board that had no problem calling an egm and asking for 1.2 million only 4 years ago, decide amongst themselves that they alone could declare the company insolvent for the sake of 120 subcriptions, which by my estimation comes to less than 200,000 euro...
bearing in mind that the 1.2 m was raised within weeks it is not unreasonable that we should have been given the option of further financial commitment as we will all need to spend a greater sum in order to play golf for the rest of this year.
this is the more pertinent question as on the face of it this board has acted in its own interest or someone elses but certainly not the shareholder whom they were elected to represent...
That is pretty much the question I am asking why did they not call an EGM?
It is simply not credible that they did not know weeks ago what they knew when they cut and ran. A company does not become insolvent overnight.0 -
I was joking.
Good for youAlrite Chief wrote: »
Er... I think you will find a meeting was my idea. I suggested before anyone else way back on page 9 ok
My but we are a bit prickley. And I though Ronan was supposed to be the big ego tripper in this circus tent. If you want to take credit in calling for a meeting, be my guest. As for the "unofficial" bit, I think Pat just meant preliminary or initial notice of a meeting. I don't think he would claim to be a wordsmith.
Just an observation. You are taking lads opinions here way too personal. How come?0 -
. I have to agree with f22 as an independent observer of this thread that you come across as a right w**ker who is blinded with your there own opinion of the situation and that anyone who has other opinions is a bitter ex member who has helped ruin the club. If anyone wasn't already in doubt your post above confirms you are either on the board or close to the people on it.
Unquestioning support, absolutely not. But some sympathy for people who gave freely of their time and huge effort in the best interests of the club and who got nothing but abuse, belligerence and sabotage in return.I have a suggestion concerning Tuesday. There should be a room set side for those who want to shout insults at the board, demand their money back, say it wasn't their fault that the club ran out of money because they didn't pay their subs, shout insults at the Kavanaghs, demand their money back again and accuse the world in general of being unfair. Effigies and pins can be supplied, as can directions back to planet earth.
The adults can gather in another room and get on with it. An indication of numbers for each room would help.
What has your post got to do with the questions I posed? They are valid questions if you know the answers do enlighten us. We are well aware of your opinions on what caused the club to close and of your unquestioning support for the board.
The questions you raise are valid. They are also trivial and irrelevant to the future.0 -
Speaking as an ordinary member (fully paid up) let me try to clarify according to my understanding of the situation;downthemiddle wrote: »Unquestioning support, absolutely not. But some sympathy for people who gave freely of their time and huge effort in the best interests of the club and who got nothing but abuse, belligerence and sabotage in return.
The questions you raise are valid. They are also trivial and irrelevant to the future.
As someone with no affiliation to SC I find some of your posts astonishing.
Perhaps you could elaborate a little more on your sabotage allegation. I think that Raymie Burns, one of many innocent victims in this sorry affair, would have a greater claim to sabotage if the stories about his computer are true.
I'm also intrigued by the statement issued yesterday stating that the loss of 60 members forced the closure. From what I can gather when you deduct the bar levy, insurance and GUI affiliation from the annual sub these 60 members would have contributed approximately 90,000 euro. While this money would have delayed the inevitable it would only have kept the club open for 2/3 months at most. The writing was obviously on the wall a long time ago but those that were aware of the situation failed to take the necessary action.
From what I can gather much of the anger stems from the fact that the ordinary let me try members were kept in the dark about the situation. They were not given the opportunity to save their golf club having invested their hard earned money and valuable time in the club.
The number of unpaid subscriptions was closer to 120. in addition a large number didn't pay in full last year either.
The club had secured the support of the bank but this was conditional on maintaining membership and income. The bank - like everyone else - knew that the over supply of clubs would result in closures. The strategy (and hope) was that South County would outlast some others and benefit from the newly created market for members. In effect, we were buying time and needed the members' support to see this through.
The situation (and strategy) was explained to anyone who would listen. Unfortunately many would not and went further - the sabotage bit - by spreading allegations of plots and conspiracies as well as organising both subscription boycotts and departures to other clubs.
At the root of much of it is a virulent strain of feuds, factions and the sort of tacky club politics that infect every club to some degree. Alas, we didn't have the antidote.
The members killed the club. Be in no doubt of that. And some of them are already looking at how they can kill what might come next.
Lovely people, and some of them may be coming to a club near you.0 -
Sorry Gambino although I have agreed with alot of what you have said in this thread you are on a different planet with that post. There is little point debating anything with you. Coming from a fully paid ordinary member myself.0
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The strategy (and hope) was that South County would outlast some others and benefit from the newly created market for members. In effect, we were buying time and needed the members' support to see this through.
The situation (and strategy) was explained to anyone who would listen.
Lovely people, and some of them may be coming to a club near you.
If you regard wishing failure upon other clubs as a strategy I certainly hope you are not one of the members who comes our way.0 -
Speaking as an ordinary member (fully paid up) let me try to clarify according to my understanding of the situation;
The number of unpaid subscriptions was closer to 120. in addition a large number didn't pay in full last year either.
The club had secured the support of the bank but this was conditional on maintaining membership and income. The bank - like everyone else - knew that the over supply of clubs would result in closures. The strategy (and hope) was that South County would outlast some others and benefit from the newly created market for members. In effect, we were buying time and needed the members' support to see this through.
The situation (and strategy) was explained to anyone who would listen. Unfortunately many would not and went further - the sabotage bit - by spreading allegations of plots and conspiracies as well as organising both subscription boycotts and departures to other clubs.
At the root of much of it is a virulent strain of feuds, factions and the sort of tacky club politics that infect every club to some degree. Alas, we didn't have the antidote.
The members killed the club. Be in no doubt of that. And some of them are already looking at how they can kill what might come next.
Lovely people, and some of them may be coming to a club near you.
Based on the content of your posts you are unable or unwilling to accept that you and the group that you support were, if not the major cause, certainly contributors to the "feuds and factions" you refer to.0 -
I feel for the lads who lost money and the genuine lads there.
But, this thread is like a Jeffrey Archer novel at this stage.0 -
But surely if feuds and politics etc were largely to blame then both sides are at fault. If people have a grievance (real or imagined) that was enough to make them join elsewhere, the powers that be should have tried to resolve the issues. Maybe this was tried, I don't know. But a board or committee is being very foolish if they're arrogant enough to a) ignore issues like that, b) take the position that "we're right and fcuk 'em",or c) assume any club has a divine right to stay in business just because.
Remember, the members are the club, and if they're not happy, then what's the point ?
SC were waiting for other clubs to fail before they did, had that happened no doubt a similar debate would be going on about that club and the causes of its demise. It unfortunate for all concerned, but SCGC didn't have a right to outlast anyone any more than any other club does.
It's easy to blame members not re joining, but that to me is the symptom not the cause. Why did they not re join would have been the issue a few months ago. If it was economic circumstances, then you can't "blame" someone for that, there are bigger things in life than SCGC when it comes to, say, someone losing their job. If there are other reasons then perhaps the board need to look at themselves and the running of the club.0 -
Speaking as an ordinary member (fully paid up) let me try to clarify according to my understanding of the situation;
The number of unpaid subscriptions was closer to 120. in addition a large number didn't pay in full last year either.
The club had secured the support of the bank but this was conditional on maintaining membership and income. The bank - like everyone else - knew that the over supply of clubs would result in closures. The strategy (and hope) was that South County would outlast some others and benefit from the newly created market for members. In effect, we were buying time and needed the members' support to see this through.
The situation (and strategy) was explained to anyone who would listen. Unfortunately many would not and went further - the sabotage bit - by spreading allegations of plots and conspiracies as well as organising both subscription boycotts and departures to other clubs.
At the root of much of it is a virulent strain of feuds, factions and the sort of tacky club politics that infect every club to some degree. Alas, we didn't have the antidote.
The members killed the club. Be in no doubt of that. And some of them are already looking at how they can kill what might come next.
Lovely people, and some of them may be coming to a club near you.
I just figured it out Gombeeno, you're a woman! And I know which one you are! Only a woman would carry on with the diatribes and ridiculous arguments you have been venting on this thread for the past three days! Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned..............except the people that screwed both you and I over are the very people you are trying to defend. Makes you wonder why??? As I said yesterday, Gombeeno doth protest too much! Oh and Gombeeno, have you actually taken the time to listen to any of the members that walked before this fiasco actually took place? Did you ever consider that they might have have very valid financial reasons for their decisions and left a Club that they saw themselves being members of for a long time? Did you take the time to find out that some of them were even struggling to pay their own home utilities? I have over the last few days and let me tell you, if you were in their shoes you might just have had to make the same choice too. Not everyone might have the same financial security that you obviously appear to have. Walk a mile in my shoes and all that before you start judging people for their actions. Have a conscience and stop with the smug, self satisfied attitude.0 -
Speaking as an ordinary member (fully paid up)
The strategy (and hope) was that South County would outlast some others and benefit from the newly created market for members. In effect, we were buying time and needed the members' support to see this through.
The members killed the club. Be in no doubt of that. And some of them are already looking at how they can kill what might come next.
Disgraceful comments Gambino, anybody that loves there golf would not "hope" that other clubs would fold. All the courses in the area have a unique selling point and are all trying to survive ! be it Hazel Grove with lovely views of the city and a solid / Strong if small membership.
Or Slade Valley : excellent facility's and two cracking new holes.
Or Dublin Mountain, great location and well run club.
Always liked the members from South County we met in inter club comp's ( very competitive and decent golfers) and to say they "killed the Club" is Nasty in the extreme.
Market forces and the bubble burst has killed the club, not the members ! ! !0 -
But surely if feuds and politics etc were largely to blame then both sides are at fault. If people have a grievance (real or imagined) that was enough to make them join elsewhere, the powers that be should have tried to resolve the issues. Maybe this was tried, I don't know. But a board or committee is being very foolish if they're arrogant enough to a) ignore issues like that, b) take the position that "we're right and fcuk 'em",or c) assume any club has a divine right to stay in business just because.
Remember, the members are the club, and if they're not happy, then what's the point ?
SC were waiting for other clubs to fail before they did, had that happened no doubt a similar debate would be going on about that club and the causes of its demise. It unfortunate for all concerned, but SCGC didn't have a right to outlast anyone any more than any other club does.
It's easy to blame members not re joining, but that to me is the symptom not the cause. Why did they not re join would have been the issue a few months ago. If it was economic circumstances, then you can't "blame" someone for that, there are bigger things in life than SCGC when it comes to, say, someone losing their job. If there are other reasons then perhaps the board need to look at themselves and the running of the club.
A number of members were experiencing financial difficulties and tried to negotiate with the Board but were dismissed out of hand, some received letters from the Board threatening them with a debt collection agency if they did not pay up.0 -
eagleleyes wrote: »I just figured it out Gombeeno, you're a woman! And I know which one you are! Only a woman would carry on with the diatribes and ridiculous arguments you have been venting on this thread for the past three days! Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned..............except the people that screwed both you and I over are the very people you are trying to defend. Makes you wonder why??? As I said yesterday, Gombeeno doth protest too much! Oh and Gombeeno, have you actually taken the time to listen to any of the members that walked before this fiasco actually took place? Did you ever consider that they might have have very valid financial reasons for their decisions and left a Club that they saw themselves being members of for a long time? Did you take the time to find out that some of them were even struggling to pay their own home utilities? I have over the last few days and let me tell you, if you were in their shoes you might just have had to make the same choice too. Not everyone might have the same financial security that you obviously appear to have. Walk a mile in my shoes and all that before you start judging people for their actions. Have a conscience and stop with the smug, self satisfied attitude.
Jesus.
Told ya , Jefery Archer or Scooby Doo.
It was the woman. :eek:0 -
Other members were also told that if they did decide to leave they would be required to sell their share back to the board for €1 or face being barred from ever setting foot on the course again.But surely if feuds and politics etc were largely to blame then both sides are at fault. If people have a grievance (real or imagined) that was enough to make them join elsewhere, the powers that be should have tried to resolve the issues. Maybe this was tried, I don't know. But a board or committee is being very foolish if they're arrogant enough to a) ignore issues like that, b) take the position that "we're right and fcuk 'em",or c) assume any club has a divine right to stay in business just because.
Remember, the members are the club, and if they're not happy, then what's the point ?
SC were waiting for other clubs to fail before they did, had that happened no doubt a similar debate would be going on about that club and the causes of its demise. It unfortunate for all concerned, but SCGC didn't have a right to outlast anyone any more than any other club does.
It's easy to blame members not re joining, but that to me is the symptom not the cause. Why did they not re join would have been the issue a few months ago. If it was economic circumstances, then you can't "blame" someone for that, there are bigger things in life than SCGC when it comes to, say, someone losing their job. If there are other reasons then perhaps the board need to look at themselves and the running of the club.
A number of members were experiencing financial difficulties and tried to negotiate with the Board but were dismissed out of hand, some received letters from the Board threatening them with a debt collection agency if they did not pay up.0 -
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I bet they wish they took that 1 euro now!0
This discussion has been closed.
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