South County GC Closed

link_2007

Redzah wrote: »

Lol, your doing me a disservice link, finals were complete in 2009

Ha ha, well you'd have no problem passing them again. It was a perfectly constructed summary.

I passed mine the same year (Jesus its been 3 years already )

Russman

[QUOTE=Alrite Chief;78608835 Beach Park, Slade Valley and Castlewarden on high alert. 600 hot leads.[/QUOTE]

+1
I know SV had a committee meeting at short notice yesterday and have some sort of a deal/offer formulated.

scubapro

Russman wrote: »

+1
I know SV had a committee meeting at short notice yesterday and have some sort of a deal/offer formulated.

Never played SV, heard it was hilly, thats about the extent of it, how does it compare to SC

Gambino

Buster; I have no allegiance to the Board but in what way exactly was the club "run so bad"? Did the Board cause the debt they inherited?, the recession?, the over-supply of clubs trawling for members?, the NAMA owned clubs selling golf at rock bottom prices?

And even if they did run it badly, how exactly does witholding vital cash from OUR club help anything? Was this intended to "punish" the Board? Well that worked. What did you think was going to happen?

Pedro/Stinky - I know there were genuine cases. There were also chancers who could well afford it. And it didn't start this year. Do you know how many didn't pay (in part or in full) last year? Do you know how many of them were looking for another deferral this year? How long is that supposed to continue?

And as for their "loyal" friends who showed such solidarity in refusing to pay - well I hope the "genuine cases" show their appreciation for sacrificing their golf club for them. Let me know where you are going so I can be sure to avoid it.

JALAS

bustercherry wrote: »

Gambino wrote: »

I heard the same complaints about the different subs but when I asked what alternative strategy was being proposed, I got no answer. The price difference was a couple of hundred. When a business is in trouble in a tough market it is hardly unreasonable to expect your shareholders and investors to put in that bit extra, while you try to trade and expand your way out of trouble.

I'm not giving up on it just yet. Its a better course than any of the alternatives in the area. If the Kavanaghs can hang on to a decent chunk of the members, market it well and maintain the course in good nick, it could and should be able to operate profitably - assuming the debt burden dies with the old club (and the malcontents who ruined it have left.)

I don't begrudge them €10 a pop to keep it going. After all we pay €7 for competition entry. I'll certainly keep playing my golf there for the time being and I hope others do the same.

400 hundred if the new member come from another club if I remember rightly. That's a fcuking huge difference in this current market.

Hi I have being a member since 2003 and a few hundred euro is a big thing a lot of the members have being hurting over last few years so letting people in for 400 euro less than us who are paying 1600 is a slap in the face so if I was you I would get my facts right. We helped out when club was in trouble and to do what they did to us is just despictable 95% of the people in South County are good honest people who all we wanted to do was golf and have a big of crack after in the clubhouse. Back to you !!!!!!!!!!

Pedro D

Gambino wrote: »

Buster; I have no allegiance to the Board but in what way exactly was the club "run so bad"? Did the Board cause the debt they inherited?, the recession?, the over-supply of clubs trawling for members?, the NAMA owned clubs selling golf at rock bottom prices?

And even if they did run it badly, how exactly does witholding vital cash from OUR club help anything? Was this intended to "punish" the Board? Well that worked. What did you think was going to happen?

Pedro/Stinky - I know there were genuine cases. There were also chancers who could well afford it. And it didn't start this year. Do you know how many didn't pay (in part or in full) last year? Do you know how many of them were looking for another deferral this year? How long is that supposed to continue?

And as for their "loyal" friends who showed such solidarity in refusing to pay - well I hope the "genuine cases" show their appreciation for sacrificing their golf club for them. Let me know where you are going so I can be sure to avoid it.

It will be interesting to see what club hovers up the membership

thegen

Gambino wrote: »

Buster; I have no allegiance to the Board but in what way exactly was the club "run so bad"? Did the Board cause the debt they inherited?, the recession?, the over-supply of clubs trawling for members?, the NAMA owned clubs selling golf at rock bottom prices?

And even if they did run it badly, how exactly does witholding vital cash from OUR club help anything? Was this intended to "punish" the Board? Well that worked. What did you think was going to happen?

Pedro/Stinky - I know there were genuine cases. There were also chancers who could well afford it. And it didn't start this year. Do you know how many didn't pay (in part or in full) last year? Do you know how many of them were looking for another deferral this year? How long is that supposed to continue?

And as for their "loyal" friends who showed such solidarity in refusing to pay - well I hope the "genuine cases" show their appreciation for sacrificing their golf club for them. Let me know where you are going so I can be sure to avoid it.

Gambbino,

You seem to know an awful lot for someone who has no connection to the board. I was unaware that the were chancers, people who couldnt/wouldn't pay. Is your name John, Ronan or Tom? Or maybe your Morgan, either way your close to the board if not on it.

stinkypoo

JALAS wrote: »

Hi I have being a member since 2003 and a few hundred euro is a big thing a lot of the members have being hurting over last few years so letting people in for 400 euro less than us who are paying 1600 is a slap in the face so if I was you I would get my facts right. We helped out when club was in trouble and to do what they did to us is just despictable 95% of the people in South County are good honest people who all we wanted to do was golf and have a big of crack after in the clubhouse. Back to you !!!!!!!!!!

Well said Jalas! Sound like Gambino has more money than sense. Did he hand over €3250 that he never had a chance of getting back, as well as several levies over the years? Could go round in circles for years on this one, bottom line is you cant get blood out of stone!

Pedro D

stinkypoo wrote: »

JALAS wrote: »

Hi I have being a member since 2003 and a few hundred euro is a big thing a lot of the members have being hurting over last few years so letting people in for 400 euro less than us who are paying 1600 is a slap in the face so if I was you I would get my facts right. We helped out when club was in trouble and to do what they did to us is just despictable 95% of the people in South County are good honest people who all we wanted to do was golf and have a big of crack after in the clubhouse. Back to you !!!!!!!!!!

Well said Jalas! Sound like Gambino has more money than sense. Did he hand over €3250 that he never had a chance of getting back, as well as several levies over the years? Could go round in circles for years on this one, bottom line is you cant get blood out of stone!

€10 to play a course this good is a steal - I would love to see ramie & his staff running the place on behalf of the landlord to keep the ship afloat until the new club is formed

Alrite Chief

Pedro D wrote: »

€10 to play a course this good is a steal - I would love to see ramie & his staff running the place on behalf of the landlord to keep the ship afloat until the new club is formed

Correction. SCGC making off with fully paid up members subs is a steal. €10 to play the course for anyone walking in off the street is a great deal in fairness. Could you honestly stomach paying up €10 if you were fully up to date with subs and your GUI is now invalid?

Gambino

stinkypoo wrote: »

JALAS wrote: »

Hi I have being a member since 2003 and a few hundred euro is a big thing a lot of the members have being hurting over last few years so letting people in for 400 euro less than us who are paying 1600 is a slap in the face so if I was you I would get my facts right. We helped out when club was in trouble and to do what they did to us is just despictable 95% of the people in South County are good honest people who all we wanted to do was golf and have a big of crack after in the clubhouse. Back to you !!!!!!!!!!

Well said Jalas! Sound like Gambino has more money than sense. Did he hand over €3250 that he never had a chance of getting back, as well as several levies over the years? Could go round in circles for years on this one, bottom line is you cant get blood out of stone!

So did you want new entrants to pay more or for you to pay less?

If the former, what was your plan B when they didn't bite at that price?

If the latter, what was your plan B to make up the income deficit?

And what is more useful to the club - a new entrant paying a grand or 1,289 (in their first year) or a loyal member who won't pay anything because he doesn't like the board?

Gambino

I don't think SCGC has walked off with anyone's money, unless the definition of insolvency has changed.

eagleleyes

Gambino wrote: »

So did you want new entrants to pay more or for you to pay less?

If the former, what was your plan B when they didn't bite at that price?

If the latter, what was your plan B to make up the income deficit?

And what is more useful to the club - a new entrant paying a grand or 1,289 (in their first year) or a loyal member who won't pay anything because he doesn't like the board?

Get off your soap box Gambino, whoever the hell you are or whatever you want to call yourself, I hope the 'Board' - of which you are no doubt a member - is paying you well with other members money for the PR job you are attempting to do. You cannot make the situation that has occured any better with the riduculous arguments you are posting here. The fact is that Board, and I know none of them as individuals, but I've learnt a lot here today, behaved in a manner that was obviously unacceptable to their members. You can argue their cause till you are blue in the face, but I'm making an educated guess that your piss poor attempts are falling on deaf ears.

Pedro D

Alrite Chief wrote: »

Pedro D wrote: »

€10 to play a course this good is a steal - I would love to see ramie & his staff running the place on behalf of the landlord to keep the ship afloat until the new club is formed

Correction. SCGC making off with fully paid up members subs is a steal. €10 to play the course for anyone walking in off the street is a great deal in fairness. Could you honestly stomach paying up €10 if you were fully up to date with subs and your GUI is now invalid?

I love the course so I reckon I will play a few games while the place is in good shape

Alrite Chief

Gambino wrote: »

I don't think SCGC has walked off with anyone's money, unless the definition of insolvency has changed.

I know exactly what it means. Absolutely no need for that attitude on here. Nothing constructive about your arguments. You are either on the wind up or are completely ignorant. Subs were being taken last week. Locks were changed last night. If you think the board handled this well you are delusional.

JALAS

Gambino wrote: »

stinkypoo wrote: »

JALAS wrote: »

Hi I have being a member since 2003 and a few hundred euro is a big thing a lot of the members have being hurting over last few years so letting people in for 400 euro less than us who are paying 1600 is a slap in the face so if I was you I would get my facts right. We helped out when club was in trouble and to do what they did to us is just despictable 95% of the people in South County are good honest people who all we wanted to do was golf and have a big of crack after in the clubhouse. Back to you !!!!!!!!!!

Well said Jalas! Sound like Gambino has more money than sense. Did he hand over €3250 that he never had a chance of getting back, as well as several levies over the years? Could go round in circles for years on this one, bottom line is you cant get blood out of stone!

So did you want new entrants to pay more or for you to pay less?

If the former, what was your plan B when they didn't bite at that price?

If the latter, what was your plan B to make up the income deficit?

And what is more useful to the club - a new entrant paying a grand or 1,289 (in their first year) or a loyal member who won't pay anything because he doesn't like the board?

Well Gambino I was not asking for a reduction on my sub but just for a bit of fairness to loyal members who have paid their subs on time every year. There was a core of members who every week played golf and went into club after for a drink or
cup of tea, sandwich or coffee and what did we get in return ? We got a text message at 6-21 am to tell us that our club yes our club is gone a text message how cowardly is that so if you have an answer as to why we where treated like that from people who where meant to be running the club on our behalf and now who refuse to answer questions as to how a club as they said only 2 months the club was on a healthy footing is now gone down the crapper !!!!!!!!!

GD1976

Was a member there since 2009 and loved the course and members were fantastic to a new member. Felt I bedded in well with existing members and felt at home there. Gutted it's closed. Could put your name on the sheet and always enjoy the company during a round. I don't have any phone numbers of existing members but would still like to meet ones for a game that I played usually on wednesday afternoons.

Gutted and annoyed. Feel for the older members who put so much in and made the club what it was.

Redzah

Just as an FYI guys. The audit report was signed on the 12th of April 2012 and I have the following issues with it;

Although it contained an emphasis of matter paragraph regarding going concern being contingent on continued support of the members the accounts were prepared on the going concern basis. This means that the auditors expressed reasonable assurance that the company would be trading 12 months from the audit report date (12th April). However less than 1 month later it ceases trading . The auditors would have had to have been presented with detailed forecasts and future cash flow statements as well as future funding requirements to sign off the audit report for this basis of preparation and would have had to stress test these so it could have possibly been professional negligence on their part or extremely misleading from SC management or most likely a mixture of both.

In my professional opinion all the factors point to accounts that should have been prepared on a break up basis (i.e. that the company would cease trading in the next 12 months) which would given anybody who could not interpret the financial statements the red flags necessary to know the financial position.

thegen

Gambiano or John, Ronan or Tom, please reply to my post!!!!

R25

Hi Guys, I was a member since 2009. I am absolutely gutted with the club closing. It was like a 2nd home. The members there were great to play alongside, staff very friendly and Ramie was a top man. He always made you feel very welcome. I feel for the staff who have now lost their jobs and the members who lost so much. I will look to join a new club as I want to keep playing competitively each week. I'd love to join a club where a few of the SC members are going so we could still enjoy some good banter whilst playing. Feel free to post where you're considering joining. Hope to cross paths again !! Cheers

Redzah

eagleleyes wrote: »

Get off your soap box Gambino, whoever the hell you are or whatever you want to call yourself, I hope the 'Board' - of which you are no doubt a member - is paying you well with other members money for the PR job you are attempting to do. You cannot make the situation that has occured any better with the riduculous arguments you are posting here. The fact is that Board, and I know none of them as individuals, but I've learnt a lot here today, behaved in a manner that was obviously unacceptable to their members. You can argue their cause till you are blue in the face, but I'm making an educated guess that your piss poor attempts are falling on deaf ears.

He's just giving his version of the events and if he's on the board then its only providing more info to the thread instead of a one sided moan. The audited 2011 accounts point to a club unable to generate sufficient revenue to cover costs and racking up accumulated losses year on year. Furthermore, its points to a club with an extremely weak balance sheet who were unable to fund day to day activities as they basically ran out've cash and couldn't fund the running of the club, sure management can be to blame and the economic environment can also be to blame but an attitude of members deciding not to pay their sub could also have been a factor as their situation was that precarious. Board had to try and continue to put on a brave face to try and keep club afloat. An announcement that the club was f'ed would've only guarnateed that the club went bust at an earlier period and the board appear to have tried to continue trading until they no longer could in the hope that either an investor, bank or a projected influx of members helped to turn the tide, its very easy to blame them and an arguement could be made that they should've cut their and your losses earlier but it is understandable why they acted in this manner.

Alrite Chief

Redzah wrote: »

He's just giving his version of the events and if he's on the board then its only providing more info to the thread instead of a one sided moan. The audited 2011 accounts point to a club unable to generate sufficient revenue to cover costs and racking up accumulated losses year on year. Furthermore, its points to a club with an extremely weak balance sheet who were unable to fund day to day activities as they basically ran out've cash and couldn't fund the running of the club, sure management can be to blame and the economic environment can also be to blame but an attitude of members deciding not to pay their sub could also have been a factor as their situation was that precarious. Board had to try and continue to put on a brave face to try and keep club afloat. An announcement that the club was f'ed would've only guarnateed that the club went bust at an earlier period and the board appear to have tried to continue trading until they no longer could in the hope that either an investor, bank or a projected influx of members helped to turn the tide, its very easy to blame them and an arguement could be made that they should've cut their and your losses earlier but it is understandable why they acted in this manner.

Would you not consider a text at 6 in the morning extremely disrespectful to those who have supported the club? Even if it meant folding earlier i feel better communication and honesty would of went a long helping regaining trust and recovery. An EGM at the very least should have been called some time ago and they should of leveled with members. That way new investment or some way of raising funds could have been spoken about. The last people to blame are members who hadn't paid over such uncertainty. Who's to say this wouldn't of happened 2 months down the line once them subs had been spent up. There is no defense for how this has been handled.

GD1976

R25 wrote: »

Hi Guys, I was a member since 2009. I am absolutely gutted with the club closing. It was like a 2nd home. The members there were great to play alongside, staff very friendly and Ramie was a top man. He always made you feel very welcome. I feel for the staff who have now lost their jobs and the members who lost so much. I will look to join a new club as I want to keep playing competitively each week. I'd love to join a club where a few of the SC members are going so we could still enjoy some good banter whilst playing. Feel free to post where you're considering joining. Hope to cross paths again !! Cheers

I have applied to Dun laoghaire,golf club. Would love to see a few members up there . Fantastic course and no joining fee at present.

Redzah

Alrite Chief wrote: »

Would you not consider a text at 6 in the morning extremely disrespectful to those who have supported the club? Even if it meant folding earlier i feel better communication and honesty would of went a long helping regaining trust and recovery. An EGM at the very least should have been called some time ago and they should of leveled with members. That way new investment or some way of raising funds could have been spoken about. The last people to blame are members who hadn't paid over such uncertainty. Who's to say this wouldn't of happened 2 months down the line once them subs had been spent up. There is no defense for how this has been handled.

Yes i agree that certain aspects of how it handled was poor and a 6am text is high on that list for sure. Also i think EGM was probably required under company law as net assets was less than half of called up share capital as company was in net liability position, the auditors should have forced this on managment before signing opinion.

Problem is that members would've run a mile and turned a small chance of recovery into no chance if board highlighted position or asked members for more money. With outstanding debts to members already of €1m there was no way members would have provided any more.

Also you are right such is the financial predicament that SC were in that even if these members had paid up there was a great chance that they would have gone bust 2 months down the line.

Fact is they needed more revenue through volume of new members coupled with fully paid existing members to turn things around and generate cash, existing members paying their subs would've provided the time needed (albeit it a limited timeframe) for this last chance saloon to save the club but obviously there was a huge risk involved for the existing members who were up to speed on the financial position. A portion of these members decided the risk wasn't worth it (and probably rightly so) but this did not give the club a last chance to generate revenue by attracting new members and the ones who got screwed were the existing members who were not informed/naive.

pinkdoubleeagle

Redzah wrote: »

Just as an FYI guys. The audit report was signed on the 12th of April 2012 and I have the following issues with it;

Although it contained an emphasis of matter paragraph regarding going concern being contingent on continued support of the members the accounts were prepared on the going concern basis. This means that the auditors expressed reasonable assurance that the company would be trading 12 months from the audit report date (12th April). However less than 1 month later it ceases trading . The auditors would have had to have been presented with detailed forecasts and future cash flow statements as well as future funding requirements to sign off the audit report for this basis of preparation and would have had to stress test these so it could have possibly been professional negligence on their part or extremely misleading from SC management or most likely a mixture of both.

In my professional opinion all the factors point to accounts that should have been prepared on a break up basis (i.e. that the company would cease trading in the next 12 months) which would given anybody who could not interpret the financial statements the red flags necessary to know the financial position.

Who are the auditors?

Gambino

I have absolutely no connection with the Board. I am a regular member who bought a share, paid my loan, paid his sub (in full and on time) every year and encouraged people to join. I also brought guests to opens, used the bar and restaurant and attended social events and meetings when I could. In return I got a golf club. I thought that was the deal.

I carry no torch for those who presided over the club's demise. What (seems to have) happened on Tuesday night (wiping records, new locks, removing machinery) sounds questionable at best and malicious at worst. I wish the new "owners" well in rescuing what they can and I will do what I can.

Amongst all the venom and accusations on this board, I have yet to see a single alternative strategy proposed that would have helped the club survive and grow. Some people seem to be in denial about their role. Whatever objections or criticisms they had, they cannot evade the fact that the club went out of business because it ran out of cash and they contributed to that situation by failing to pay their subs. If they had behaved differently we would have a golf club today and ten years of effort would not be down the drain.

South County's demise is a shot in the arm for other struggling clubs, in that they can get some new members from us. I hear that some are already getting ready to offer deals. The reality of the situation was that South County was hoping that some others would fail first and that we would benefit in the same way. The club's strategy was all about that and all it needed was for enough of the members to stick with it for long enough. A burden shared etc.

Unfortunately some were so engrossed in short term opportunism and personal fueds that they didn't see what was coming down the tracks. Every club - golf or otherwise - has its share of such types. We just seem to have had more than our fair share.

Russman

In fairness, and I'm not auditor bashing here, nor am I defending the board in any way, but an auditors report can mean something or it can mean nothing. Hindsight is always 20:20 vision. Remember the banks all had clean bills of health !:D

A paper never refused ink, and projections / budgets with regard to membership numbers etc are not really worth anything in these times.

I hasten to add that I have no connection in any way, shape or form with South County.

Bonnamassa

R25 wrote: »

Hi Guys, I was a member since 2009. I am absolutely gutted with the club closing. It was like a 2nd home. The members there were great to play alongside, staff very friendly and Ramie was a top man. He always made you feel very welcome. I feel for the staff who have now lost their jobs and the members who lost so much. I will look to join a new club as I want to keep playing competitively each week. I'd love to join a club where a few of the SC members are going so we could still enjoy some good banter whilst playing. Feel free to post where you're considering joining. Hope to cross paths again !! Cheers

I'm with R25 in this regard - I'll miss the course, the comraderie and Raymie's warm, friendly welcome each morning. I feel for all the staff who have lost far more that us members. I'd also like if, through these posts, ex-members might share their thoughts on where they're considering joining as I would like to keep up the many contacts made over the years.

Russman

Gambino wrote: »

they cannot evade the fact that the club went out of business because it ran out of cash and they contributed to that situation by failing to pay their subs. If they had behaved differently we would have a golf club today and ten years of effort would not be down the drain.

I don't know any details other than what's on this forum, but "failing to pay" seems a little harsh in the current climate, no. Maybe it wasn't a choice and they couldn't afford to keep playing golf ?


Hopefully the members (or ex-members) get sorted for golf with other clubs asap. South County's misfortune could be the salvation of other clubs.

Gambino

Bonnamassa - No need to miss anything (except the malcontents who have hopefully gone for good.) The course is open and available. Go on up.

Russman - if you read back over this thread you will see plenty of evidence that some people "refused" to pay. Whatever their reason - and I frankly don't give a sh*t if it was real or contrived - that is what killed the club. Not the Board, not the landlords. They did.