Undertaking on the motorway

Elephant Man from china

Jesus. wrote: »

What do you lads think of this scenario because I'm not sure if I do be in the right or not.

Say you're moving handily along in the left lane at say, 65 mph, and a line of slower moving traffic comes up in front of you - 6 or 7 vehicles strong including a couple of long arctic trucks. You look behind you and all there is is a car a good distance back so you move out and begin overtaking, not much faster than what you were doing, say about 70. The vehicles on your left are only doing about 50 so your speed is plenty fast to overtake them all quick enough but because there's so many of them, it takes a little longer. Then after passing the first 2 or 3, you look in your mirror and that car that was way back is right on your tail as he was obviously pelting it along.

My question is, is it okay to continue doing your speed and carry out your manoeuvre, or should you stand on the throttle because you've obviously forced the guy behind to reduce his speed?

I stress again that when you began your manoeuvre, the bloke was way back, so far that you wouldn't have been able to make out what speed he was doing. I'm not talking about people who pull out on advancing, fast-moving traffic forcing blokes to slow down in a dangerous fashion. This is a different kind of scenario so I hope I've explained it okay!

What do you think lads?

Pretty simple.. Drive faster to complete your move. Then get out of my way (figuratively)

Unless I've misunderstood your point and you can't move out of my way way because of slow moving traffic.. Then your not going to get grief off anyone

Zubeneschamali

cisk wrote: »

Undertaking would be moving into a lefthand lane to get past a slower moving car and possibly returning to said lane.

Driving in the leftmost driving lane passing fools in incorrect lane is not undertaking.

Undertaking is not mentioned in law or the Rules of the Road.

Passing on the left is what is illegal, except in 3 specific cases, and passing without changing lane is definitely illegal unless covered by those cases.

None of those cases involve traffic moving at 80-100 km.h.

Shankly88

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

The least of the countries worries in the speed limit on the M50. 3/4's of the cars on it travel at 75-90 anyway. Of them 2/3rds+ are in the middle lane.

All the while they brake to move across 2 lanes to exit the motorway from the middle lane, brake to merge on to the motorway, brake to change lanes. All the bloody time ****ing braking.

you are my hero

Jesus.

Henry Ford III wrote: »

You can't justify bad driving by saying someone else's bad driving made me do it.

I'm not. I don't regard undertaking as bad driving.

Sometimes the rules are difficult and/or frustrating to follow. Doesn't stop them being the rules however.

I would say downright stupid rather than frustrating mate! Indeed it doesn't stop them being the rules but rules can be changed, or at least, the stupid ones can be ignored by the Gardai.

And as I said, as long as you are aware that there could be police action if you're caught continuing on your way on the inside lane when some idiot is sitting in the middle, then its up to you to decide whether you want to continue driving straight ahead or cut across two lanes and back again. Out in the real World, some people will decide that continuing straight ahead is the appropriate thing to do.

Jesus.

Elephant Man from china wrote: »

Unless I've misunderstood your point

I think you've managed it, despite my going to great lengths to describe the particulars of the scenario.

Quite a feat that, Elephant Man! :P

ballooba

Henry Ford III wrote: »

You can't justify bad driving by saying someone else's bad driving made me do it.

Sometimes the rules are difficult and/or frustrating to follow. Doesn't stop them being the rules however.

Why justify it? If you can't beat them join them. Drive like you're in Russia. Problem solved.

Colonel Sanders

Left work at 8pm so needless to say it wasn't too busy. Think it was definitely a single figure number of cars I saw use the left lane

Don't think it was a Traffic Corps vehicle (not that it matters) but a Garda SUV type thing was cruising in the middle lane between Tallaght & the red cow!

Think special award of the night goes to the gimp driving a 07 Aygo at about 70km/h in lane 3 (lanes 1 & 2 empty) between Finglas and Ballymun northbound

dr.fuzzenstein

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

Left work at 8pm so needless to say it wasn't too busy. Think it was definitely a single figure number of cars I saw use the left lane

Don't think it was a Traffic Corps vehicle (not that it matters) but a Garda SUV type thing was cruising in the middle lane between Tallaght & the red cow!

Think special award of the night goes to the gimp driving a 07 Aygo at about 70km/h in lane 3 (lanes 1 & 2 empty) between Finglas and Ballymun northbound

They're the ones, if you cruise up behind them and flash them to get out of the way (which they do after about 5 minutes), will immediately go back out to the right-most lane.
How are mongos like that allowed to drive?

visual

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

They're the ones, if you cruise up behind them and flash them to get out of the way (which they do after about 5 minutes), will immediately go back out to the right-most lane.
How are mongos like that allowed to drive?

Whats worse is they believe they are a safe driver and everyone else is speeding

Spook_ie

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Keep going up to 120kph (assuming that;'s the speed limit).

Why? A speed limit isn't a target I'll often set cruise control to a 100 rather than 120 to save fuel

dr.fuzzenstein

Spook_ie wrote: »

Why? A speed limit isn't a target I'll often set cruise control to a 100 rather than 120 to save fuel

Just don't hog the "fasht" lane and we're happy. As for "it's a limit, not a target",

Driving back from Limerick to Ennis today and the amount of mongs driving on the motorway at 60 fcuking km/h. Should be points and fine.
I can just hear them saying "ah jaysus, I'm saavin' de daaaesel!"

Heroditas

TireeTerror wrote: »

Now I know I shouldn't have engaged with him and should have just let him by, but I see it as my personal duty to discourage people with bad manners and bully boy tactics. I wish he had pulled off the road at a service station where I would have followed him in and seen what he had to say for himself then.

No you shouldn't have engaged with him, you're not a member of An Garda Siochana. All you're doing is encouraging road rage.

As for following him in if he'd pulled into a service station, that's just compounding the situation. That's how people could end up with a tyre iron across the head. It doesn't help the matter at all.

Spook_ie

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Just don't hog the "fasht" lane and we're happy. As for "it's a limit, not a target",

Driving back from Limerick to Ennis today and the amount of mongs driving on the motorway at 60 fcuking km/h. Should be points and fine.
I can just hear them saying "ah jaysus, I'm saavin' de daaaesel!"

I don't but neither am I going to accelerate just to please others who should be watching for slower traffic overtaking even slower traffic. After all would you expect an arcticto overtake another artic at 120?

Jesus.

Nice one Doc

Hey Doc, check out the scenario I posted up earlier today and give me your tuppence worth.

Spook_ie

Spook_ie wrote: »

After all would you expect an arcticto overtake another artic at 120?

No as they are not capable of reaching 120 and therefore are not allowed to overtake on a motorway.

Spook_ie

Valentin Large Ace wrote: »

No as they are not capable of reaching 120 and therefore are not allowed to overtake on a motorway.

Incorrect, they are allowed to overtake, however they have restrictions on their speed and on which lanes they can use on motorways with 3 lanes

gutteruu

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

They're the ones, if you cruise up behind them and flash them to get out of the way (which they do after about 5 minutes), will immediately go back out to the right-most lane.
How are mongos like that allowed to drive?

Because unless you are speeding, you can do whatever the hell you like in this country. Cops won't do anyone for anything other than speed and phone.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Spook_ie wrote: »

Incorrect, they are allowed to overtake, however they have restrictions on their speed and on which lanes they can use on motorways with 3 lanes

fyp

Zubeneschamali

Spook_ie wrote: »

Incorrect, they are allowed to overtake

You must not use the lane nearest the central median, that is, the outside lane (lane 2 or lane 3, depending on the number of lanes), if you are driving:

• a goods vehicle with a maximum authorised mass of more than 3,500 kilograms, such as a lorry or heavy goods vehicle,
• a passenger vehicle with seating for more than 8 passengers (aside from the driver), such as a bus, or
• a vehicle towing a trailer, horsebox or caravan.

dr.fuzzenstein

Spook_ie wrote: »

I don't but neither am I going to accelerate just to please others who should be watching for slower traffic overtaking even slower traffic. After all would you expect an arcticto overtake another artic at 120?

Actually, its people pulling out to overtake who must watch for faster traffic approaching.
I often see people pull out just in front of me (of course I'm ready for them, being ever vigilant), overtake at 0.015 km/h faster than the vehicle they're overtaking and then stay out that little bit longer just to make a point. Sigh. I used to pull in front of them and gradually slow down just to annoy them back. Not anymore, they are welcome to it if it gives them a bit of pleasure in their grey world...

visual

a few cars in the distance tailgating a lorry on motorway all doing about 100kph in left lane.

As motorway is 120kph I will slowly catch them up so I move into overtaking lane in plenty of time so all have the opportunity to see me in their mirrors yet as im overtaking this group of cars who where all previously content to trundle along behind lorry for miles, one will suddly pull out and I will have to break and then endure the slowest overtaking possible.

What is with these drivers are they just stupid or is it some weird chip on their shoulder.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

visual wrote: »

a few cars in the distance tailgating a lorry on motorway all doing about 100kph in left lane.

As motorway is 120kph I will slowly catch them up so I move into overtaking lane in plenty of time so all have the opportunity to see me in their mirrors yet as im overtaking this group of cars who where all previously content to trundle along behind lorry for miles, one will suddly pull out and I will have to break and then endure the slowest overtaking possible.

What is with these drivers are they just stupid or is it some weird chip on their shoulder.

It is the stupid paddy attitude of "oh I can't be overtaken"

Cantona's Collars

Not motorway driving but anyone who drives the N11/N25 near Wexford will be familiar with the 2 lanes heading Southbound from Ferrycarrig,it's amazing the amount of morons who feel that it's ok to continue to do 60kph after leaving the speed limit while sitting in the overtaking lane and yes I admit to undertaking there as sometimes no amount of light flashing will get their attention as they stare blankly ahead.
Even the missus who is an extremely cautious driver has done it out of sheer frustration.

dr.fuzzenstein

visual wrote: »

a few cars in the distance tailgating a lorry on motorway all doing about 100kph in left lane.

As motorway is 120kph I will slowly catch them up so I move into overtaking lane in plenty of time so all have the opportunity to see me in their mirrors yet as im overtaking this group of cars who where all previously content to trundle along behind lorry for miles, one will suddly pull out and I will have to break and then endure the slowest overtaking possible.

What is with these drivers are they just stupid or is it some weird chip on their shoulder.

Ah yes, the people who are in the left hand lane, with me going faster in the outside lane, approaching a lorry. But they are going faster than the truck.
I am in the outside lane because both the car in the left and the lorry are going slower than me and I am overtaking.
I notice the car on the left is continuing until he/she reaches the lorry and then suddenly brake, swerve or just pull out on me.
This begs the question: Do these people not notice a great, big truck directly in front of them, a car approaching from behind at a faster speed in the outside lane and that they will have to adjust their speed either to pull out safely and overtake ahead of me or slow down and wait for me to pass before they can overtake?
Is the triangulation of all these factors too much for their poor, little brains? (which is my guess) Can these people chew gum and walk at the same time and do they wear velcro-fastened shoes, because laces are too challenging for them?
Answers on a postcard.

coffee_cake

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Ah yes, the people who are in the left hand lane, with me going faster in the outside lane, approaching a lorry. But they are going faster than the truck.
I am in the outside lane because both the car in the left and the lorry are going slower than me and I am overtaking.
I notice the car on the left is continuing until he/she reaches the lorry and then suddenly brake, swerve or just pull out on me.
This begs the question: Do these people not notice a great, big truck directly in front of them, a car approaching from behind at a faster speed in the outside lane and that they will have to adjust their speed either to pull out safely and overtake ahead of me or slow down and wait for me to pass before they can overtake?
Is the triangulation of all these factors too much for their poor, little brains? (which is my guess) Can these people chew gum and walk at the same time and do they wear velcro-fastened shoes, because laces are too challenging for them?
Answers on a postcard.

I find that if I keep on going and yell "fcuk off, fcuk off" at them they stay put.
:cool:

Jesus.

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Actually, its people pulling out to overtake who must watch for faster traffic approaching.
I often see people pull out just in front of me (of course I'm ready for them, being ever vigilant), overtake at 0.015 km/h faster than the vehicle they're overtaking and then stay out that little bit longer just to make a point. Sigh. I used to pull in front of them and gradually slow down just to annoy them back. Not anymore, they are welcome to it if it gives them a bit of pleasure in their grey world...

That's true Doc but what about the specific scenario I pointed out yesterday.

You still won't answer it ye mad whore ye!

b318isp

The simple truth is that a significant proportion of drivers are not actively thinking as they make their way along.

They simply react to whatever is happening or what pops into their head at that point in time.

There is no planning, there is no observation, there is no prediction, there is no consideration and there is no thought about the rules of the road. It's just the here and now.

Once we realise that this reactionary style is the major cause of the malaise in driving, then we can start to accommodate it - as nothing else will happen.

Caliden

Who is the onus of responsibility on when driving on a 3 lane motorway when someone (car1) in lane 1 wants to move to lane 2 but at the same time a car (car2) in lane 3 wants to move to lane 2.

In the above situation car2 is going faster than car1 but is 3-4 car lengths back and car1 is going faster than traffic ahead of it. Lane 2 is clear but for some reason car2 was in lane 3.

There's been a few times where I will check my blindspot and mirrors, see the car in lane 3 and see that lane 2 is clear but find that the car in lane 3 changed lanes the same time as myself.

Personally I think it's up to the car behind to notice and anticipate that car1 is going to overtake the slower moving cars and delay the move into lane 2 but I'm not sure.

djimi

Caliden wrote: »

Who is the onus of responsibility on when driving on a 3 lane motorway when someone (car1) in lane 1 wants to move to lane 2 but at the same time a car (car2) in lane 3 wants to move to lane 2.

In the above situation car2 is going faster than car1 but is 3-4 car lengths back and car1 is going faster than traffic ahead of it. Lane 2 is clear but for some reason car2 was in lane 3.

There's been a few times where I will check my blindspot and mirrors, see the car in lane 3 and see that lane 2 is clear but find that the car in lane 3 changed lanes the same time as myself.

Personally I think it's up to the car behind to notice and anticipate that car1 is going to overtake the slower moving cars and delay the move into lane 2 but I'm not sure.

Assuming both cars are indicating the right of way should go to the car in front.

However, if the car behind is travelling faster then the slower car should probably give way, as they would be moving into a lane that would not be clear by the time they got there.

Spook_ie

Spook_ie wrote: »

Incorrect, they are allowed to overtake, however they have restrictions on their speed and on which lanes they can use on motorways with 3 lanes

Yes I know they can overtake on a 3 lane motorway but as 99% of our motorway network is 2 lane then essentially they cannot overtake on a motorway.