Undertaking on the motorway

blindside88

I can't understand why this is seen as dangerous driving. According to the AA it's one of the top 10 dangerous activities on the motorway. I travel along the m50 everyday and constantly find people driving in the overtaking lane at 80kph, I therefore undertake them. The only way in which I can see this causing an accident is if the person on the outside pulls in without looking. Am I missing something?

dillo2k10

blindside88 wrote: »

I can't understand why this is seen as dangerous driving. According to the AA it's one of the top 10 dangerous activities on the motorway. I travel along the m50 everyday and constantly find people driving in the overtaking lane at 80kph, I therefore undertake them. The only way in which I can see this causing an accident is if the person on the outside pulls in without looking. Am I missing something?

Its dangerous only because people are told not to do it, so people dont expect people coming up on that side.

paddy147

blindside88 wrote: »

I can't understand why this is seen as dangerous driving. According to the AA it's one of the top 10 dangerous activities on the motorway. I travel along the m50 everyday and constantly find people driving in the overtaking lane at 80kph, I therefore undertake them. The only way in which I can see this causing an accident is if the person on the outside pulls in without looking. Am I missing something?

The sooner that the "M"-50 MOTORWAY is given its propper 120kph speed limit,the better.

The old 2 lane M50 was a 120kph motorway,but now this bigger and better M50 is only 100kph.

FFS like.:mad:

Guy:Incognito

paddy147 wrote: »

The sooner that the "M"-50 MOTORWAY is given its propper 120kph speed limit,the better.

The old 2 lane M50 was a 120kph motorway,but now this bigger and better M50 is only 100kph.

FFS like.:mad:

The least of the countries worries in the speed limit on the M50. 3/4's of the cars on it travel at 75-90 anyway. Of them 2/3rds+ are in the middle lane.

All the while they brake to move across 2 lanes to exit the motorway from the middle lane, brake to merge on to the motorway, brake to change lanes. All the bloody time ****ing braking.

BrianCohen

paddy147 wrote: »

The sooner that the "M"-50 MOTORWAY is given its propper 120kph speed limit,the better.

The old 2 lane M50 was a 120kph motorway,but now this bigger and better M50 is only 100kph.

FFS like.:mad:

As far as I know the lanes are too narrow for the 120kph limit.

paddy147

BrianCohen wrote: »

As far as I know the lanes are too narrow for the 120kph limit.

Oh sweet lord jesus,please tell me that you are only joking???:eek:

Arent the AA trying to get the speed limit upped to the 120kph limit??

emo72

paddy147 wrote: »

The sooner that the "M"-50 MOTORWAY is given its propper 120kph speed limit,the better.

The old 2 lane M50 was a 120kph motorway,but now this bigger and better M50 is only 100kph.

FFS like.:mad:

unfortunately they claim because theres now 3 lanes that its safer to bring the limit down to 100, to allow people to change lanes safely when try ing to get onto an exit. i know its crazy!

Mycroft H

BrianCohen

paddy147 wrote: »

Oh sweet lord jesus,please tell me that you are only joking???:eek:

Arent the AA trying to get the speed limit upped to the 120kph limit??

Just to say, that's from memory from a thread on here I think yonks ago. I'm a long time lurker so it could've been the last 4 years. I googled and the lanes are narrower by 25cm according to Wikipedia

CiniO

M50 has too many exits on quite short stretch of motorway. Lanes are narrow. Plenty of vehicles changing lanes, looking for right exits, etc...
I can't think of any other similar part of motorway in Europe where there would be any bigger limit than 100km/h.
IMHO 100km/h is just about right or even too much for M50.

paddy147

emo72 wrote: »

unfortunately they claim because theres now 3 lanes that its safer to bring the limit down to 100, to allow people to change lanes safely when try ing to get onto an exit. i know its crazy!

The RSA should send all the "crawl along" auld fellas and auld biddies over onto the M25 at junction 13 (Staines,Egham) and that will frighten the absolute shyte out of them indeed........all 6 lanes on each side of the M25.:D

blindside88

BX 19 wrote: »

Wasn't aware that there was a thread in it already.

dr.fuzzenstein

blindside88 wrote: »

Wasn't aware that there was a thread in it already.

Only the odd one or two (thousand);)
They usually go very well with very civilised discussion and polite arguing...:p

Dawn Rider

dillo2k10 wrote: »

Its dangerous only because people are told not to do it, so people don't expect people coming up on that side.

Don't bother to check their mirrors, and then scupper the driver in the inner lane:mad:

I have seen on the M50 lanes 1 & 2 essentially blocked by a slowcoach in lane 3, because they seemed nervous of undertaking.

Not

I can understand people trundling along a bit slower with the price of fuel these days, but anyone who needs to do so, please, please do it in the left hand lane - not, like I'm increasingly seeing, at 80k in the middle lane :rolleyes::rolleyes:

I dont like undertaking, and usually refrain from doing so, but I frequently meet people driving so dangerously slow in the middle lane that occassionally I dont have a choice - other than hitting the brakes and clogging up the left lane while waiting for an opportunity to move out to go around them.

And there are those who do keep to the left lane, until I come up behind them and as I'm about to move out to pass they suddenly move out into the middle lane for no bl00dy reason

Lets not forget those who trundle down slip roads on to motorways at 60k's and go straight for the middle lane dispite the road being clear in front of them and a queue of irate drivers behind all trying to race each other into the righthand lane to get past. Or those who on dual carraigeways move out to the right hand lane as soon as they get on to them because they'll be turning right a few miles further on - I see that all the time on the road from Lucan to the Naas Road.

Anan1

blindside88 wrote: »

I can't understand why this is seen as dangerous driving. According to the AA it's one of the top 10 dangerous activities on the motorway. I travel along the m50 everyday and constantly find people driving in the overtaking lane at 80kph, I therefore undertake them. The only way in which I can see this causing an accident is if the person on the outside pulls in without looking. Am I missing something?

Isn't that a very big only?

ScouseMouse

blindside88 wrote: »

I can't understand why this is seen as dangerous driving. According to the AA it's one of the top 10 dangerous activities on the motorway. I travel along the m50 everyday and constantly find people driving in the overtaking lane at 80kph, I therefore undertake them. The only way in which I can see this causing an accident is if the person on the outside pulls in without looking. Am I missing something?

I agree with every fecking word. I undertake pass on the left every day of the week AND I make sure I make eye contact with the dopes. Most then move to the left after me.

If there was proper enforcement, it would not happen.

Bluesphere

The worst arethe dopes who sit in the middle lane for an entire journey.

Dawn Rider

That's because they don't want to go in the 'fast lane', nor get stuck in the 'slow lane'... Perfect!

Reg'stoy

Increasing the speed limit won't change a thing, besides as someone who crosses the M50 twice (at least) a day I've grown accustomed to it.

As both a bike and car driver, the bike rider in me thinks every other car/truck/bus is out to kill me so I drive defensively. The vast majority of Irish drivers don't give a fcuk about their driving. Proper lane discipline, indication, hell even keeping their windows demisted is a; mah who cares.

When I said above that I drive defensivily, I mean not like a tank but rather I think about things. If I'm approaching a car who's to my right in the centre lane of the M50, and I'm catching him, I should be thinking if an exit is coming up; will he cut in front of me and if an on ramp is coming; should I be prepared to slow and move in behind him to allow traffic to filter on. Only if I'm a good distance from either would I contemplate undertaking him (if my left lane is clear and the two overtaking lanes are not).

Besides this creature who sits in the centre lane at 80kph, with nothing to his front or left, is my 'big foot' because I have yet to meet him. But then I don't really stress over other peoples driving, bar I consider them to be a possible danger to me or I see the results professionally.

My big thing is indication and road position. Indication should be muscle memory as in no conscious thought, Christ clutch control is pure reflex and muscle control after a short period driving; why shouldn't indiction be too. Same goes for road postion particularly at roundabouts.

I consider lack of indication as uncourtious and downright rude to other road users. Indication is just that, an indication that I am about to change my road position and not a 'woah there boss you'd better slow down cause I'm moving in front of you'. The amount of drivers who I've heard say sure I was indicating and when you ask was it safe to move, they reply again; but I was indicating.

The main thing is folks don't stress over others driving, stress leads us to make poor decisions. Believe me, people do get caught for not staying left or no indication and unsafe lane changes. The person you're stressed over may not at that moment be caught but if it's habitual; they will.

I would love it if everyone taught as much about there own driving as much as they did/do about others, if that was the case we'd be a lot more courtious to each other.

TheChizler

The reason that undertaking on the motorway is considered dangerous goes back to old laws which give funeral corteges right of way over normal traffic (RTA 1963). The below-normal speed (often barely walking-pace) is unexpected for motorists accelerating down a slip-road, with a conflict occurring in which the motorist joining the motorway is expected to yield to the funeral procession. The obvious flaw is that the joining vehicle is usually travelling in excess of 100 km/h, requiring evasive maneuvers and emergency braking. Accidents are common with large numbers of injuries resulting due to the close proximity of vehicles in the procession.

In 2005 alone there were 30 motorway funeral procession incursions in the Republic, all of which involved loss of life (source: CSO).

Since 2008 the RSA has issued warnings to undertakers outlining the risks involved in operating on motorways and other dual-carriageways, and as a result there has been a dramatic reduction of incidents involving undertaking.



Seriously though I imagine it's to do with people not expecting someone to overtake on their left side. Or if there's a long line of cars overtaking on the left there might be an incident when the driver in the inside lane needs to cross the outside lane to get to an exit.

Inbox

People don't change lanes because of the cats eyes I reckon. Why are there cats eyes on the M50 I often wonder?

ardmacha

People don't change lanes because of the cats eyes I reckon.

Don't they want cats looking at them or something?

Why are there cats eyes on the M50 I often wonder?

probably delineating the lanes, but you wouldn't know.

The whole thing is cat.

ScouseMouse

TheChizler wrote: »

In 2005 alone there were 30 motorway funeral procession incursions in the Republic, all of which involved loss of life (source: CSO).

Thats bloody obvious! I have never seen a funeral procession without a loss of life.

(sorry, couldn't resist that one !)

mathepac

Reg'stoy wrote: »

... The vast majority of Irish drivers don't give a fcuk about their driving. Proper lane discipline, indication, hell even keeping their windows demisted is a; mah who cares. ...

I agree. Add in the idiots who insist on undertaking and wanting the speed limit raised on the the congested multi-exit M50 and you have a recipe for disaster.

walus

I've driven cars in a good few European countries and as far as I can tell there are three fundamental rules that apply when driving on motorway. First and foremost:use only the outside lane for overtaking on a two lane carriageways, accelerate, overtake and get back to the inside lane; as for the three lane carriageways go you can overtake on all three lanes assuming that the speed you are traveling suited for the general traffic speed on the lane your are at.
From my own experience from driving in Ireland I must say that most drivers are very sloppy. They do not use indicators, have no clue how roundabouts work and are petrified when driving on motorway. Some tend to apply their own logic to on road situations rather than applying the rules everyone should be driving by. I think this is due to a lack of proper driving courses, say 20-30 hours of driving lessons with a qualified instructor, who would be able to teach the proper on road behavior that is not affected by bad bad habits of a dad, mum or an uncle.

Thank God you drive slow in this country. If it was not for that there would have been far more fatalities on roads every day.

dr.fuzzenstein

Was driving to work today, going from Shannon to Limerick on the dual carriageway.
12 reg rental car with what looked like two American tourists driving it, in the right hand lane, going at 80 km/h.
As cars where whizzing past on their left every now and then some car did try to get them to move over.
Me too. Drive up behind them, put on my lights, nothing. Indicate right, nothing. Flash them, nothing.
All the while cars passing them on their left with drivers glaring at them, nothing.
After a while I had to admit defeat, they weren't going to get it. So overtook on the left too, same as the other couple of hundred cars.
ROTR be damned, I will not crawl behind some eejit doing 80 km/h all the way past Limerick and be late to work, chances of being done are virtually none, it's worth the risk and only a complete moron would sit behind them for the next few hundred km's.
I already know they will fly back to the good ole' US of A and say "Ghee, those drivers in Ireland sure are aggressive, why in the name of heck where they all flashing us all the time?"
To me that rule was meant to prevent people overtaking every which way, but every now and then some gobsh*te decides he has to be awkward and that he has to fcuk up the whole system, mostly farmer John-Joe who is sad that he hasn't got a mile of traffic behind him anymore and discovered this neat little trick on how he can now still hold up the motorway, just keep right and traffic still has to follow him and he's all happy again!

Guy:Incognito

mathepac wrote: »

UOTE]I agree. Add in the idiots who insist on undertaking and wanting the speed limit raised on the the congested multi-exit M50 and you have a recipe for disaster.

If someone goes by you on the left YOU are in the wrong lane. If your driving properly it can't happen

whomitconcerns

My favourite is the guys that drive on the leftmost lane in the M50, exiting lane or whatever, and then shoot across all the lanes to the right when they actually near the exit as the traffic in their lane has slowed down..to exit funnily enough....4 lanes of traffic on one indication undertaking everyone else...thats if they indicate!!!!

pippip

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

If someone goes by you on the left YOU are in the wrong lane. If your driving properly it can't happen

it can if someone else is not driving properly.

cjt156

I actually saw a motorcycle cop direct a driver out of the 3rd lane on the N4 outbound at Lucan a week or so ago. Up with this sort of thing.

pippip

I was on the m50 in rush hour a few months back and a garda van was pissing down the outside lane (no lights or anything) at the lucan exit he moved across to the inside lane forcing all the queue jumpers (doddling along looking for a gap) to move on and once past the exit moved back out to the outside.

Thought it was brilliant, don't know how the queue jumpers dont cause more accidents.

mathepac

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

If someone goes by you on the left YOU are in the wrong lane. If your driving properly it can't happen

What an endearingly naive post with the faithful little acolytes adding their +1's.

Passing on the near-side on a motorway is both dangerous and illegal, just in case it escaped your attention; another motorist being "in the wrong lane", as you so charmingly describe it, is merely a matter of opinion. Given the course of action you prescribe, yours thankfully doesn't count.

If you want to drive where undertaking is legal go to the States. No doubt you could also legally shoot people for being "in the wrong lane"

corktina

:rolleyes:do we have to do this again?

djimi

Anan1 wrote: »

Isn't that a very big only?

Perhaps, but the same could be said of overtaking on the right.

As far as Im concerned if someone changes lanes without looking then they are at fault for whatever happens, end of story. There is no "I didnt expect him to be there" in driving; you should be aware of your surroundings at all times. If youre not sure that a lane is clear to move into then you dont move into it. Assume nothing.

Anan1

mathepac wrote: »

...another motorist being "in the wrong lane", as you so charmingly describe it, is merely a matter of opinion.

No it's not.

djimi wrote: »

Perhaps, but the same could be said of overtaking on the right.

As far as Im concerned if someone changes lanes without looking then they are at fault for whatever happens, end of story. There is no "I didnt expect him to be there" in driving; you should be aware of your surroundings at all times. If youre not sure that a lane is clear to move into then you dont move into it. Assume nothing.

Agreed, but fault isn't the issue. We already know that someone blocking the overtaking lane is a bit tuned out, undertaking them is therefore more dangerous than a standard overtake.

mathepac

corktina wrote: »

:rolleyes:do we have to do this again?

For the sake of the "I own the bleedin' road an' I make the bleedin' rules" gang apparently we must do it on a regular basis, but it gets boring.

They also do the "let's legalize every mood-altering substance known to man for recreational use" threads and the "why do I need a TV licence?" kind, just for variety.

Each time they start one of these threads the thinking seems to be "look at how radical and daring I am today dudes", forgetting it was done and dusted yesterday. I blame the parents. And the drugs. And the TV. And the GAA.

mathepac

Anan1 wrote: »

No it's not.

In the context of the post I responded to and the thread generally it certainly is or are you just lost in the thread flow?

Anan1

mathepac wrote: »

In the context of the post I responded to and the thread generally it certainly is or are you just lost in the thread flow?

No, it's not. The rule is simple, and clear - drive left, overtake right.

djimi

Anan1 wrote: »

We already know that someone blocking the overtaking lane is a bit tuned out, undertaking them is therefore more dangerous than a standard overtake.

Again the same could be said about overtaking them, no? If someone is a decent driver then it doesnt matter which side you pass them on as they will pay attention to both sides when changing lanes (I suppose a decent driver wouldnt need to be undertaken...); if they are a complete moron then they are just as likely to move right without due care as they are to move left.

Im not saying undertaking is correct, dont get me wrong. I just dont agree with the idea that the undertaker is the one causing the danger; if the person being passed showed the proper amount of awareness on the road then undertaking would not be an issue.

Not

Not wrote: »

And there are those who do keep to the left lane, until I come up behind them and as I'm about to move out to pass they suddenly move out into the middle lane for no bl00dy reason

Lets not forget those who trundle down slip roads on to motorways at 60k's and go straight for the middle lane

yes!
kill kill kill :mad::mad:

mathepac

djimi wrote: »

... I just dont agree with the idea that the undertaker is the one causing the danger; ...

Undertaking is both dangerous and illegal, if you don't agree get the road traffic laws changed, until then we simply obey them. Can you imagine trusting your safety on the road to the drivers (assuming they're not trolls) behind some of the lunatic posts here? I think I'd be driving the JCB everywhere.

Max Power1

mathepac wrote: »

What an endearingly naive post with the faithful little acolytes adding their +1's.

Passing on the near-side on a motorway is both dangerous and illegal, just in case it escaped your attention; another motorist being "in the wrong lane", as you so charmingly describe it, is merely a matter of opinion. Given the course of action you prescribe, yours thankfully doesn't count.

If you want to drive where undertaking is legal go to the States. No doubt you could also legally shoot people for being "in the wrong lane"

You amuse me

Keep your misinformed tripe coming. You overtaking lane hogger

Anan1

djimi wrote: »

Im not saying undertaking is correct, dont get me wrong. I just dont agree with the idea that the undertaker is the one causing the danger; if the person being passed showed the proper amount of awareness on the road then undertaking would not be an issue.

IMO it's a bit of a grey area. I undertake regularly, because I don't want to be delayed and because by not undertaking I then become part of the rolling roadblock myself. It does carry a risk though, and if worst came to worst I couldn't really describe myself as an innocent party.

MrDerp

mathepac wrote: »

Undertaking is both dangerous and illegal, if you don't agree get the road traffic laws changed, until then we simply obey them. Can you imagine trusting your safety on the road to the drivers (assuming they're not trolls) behind some of the lunatic posts here? I think I'd be driving the JCB everywhere.

Which is more dangerous?
- undertaking on a motorway
- overtaking on a broken white line on a regional route where the visibility isn't 100% e.g. a bit of a hill or a partial bend in front of you
Which is legal?

If the idiot in the outside lane has a reasonably expectancy of no-one passing on nearside, then other drivers have a reasonable expectancy of the idiot not being there in the first place.

The alternative is to sit behind the driver in the overtaking lane. What happens when the next car approaches from behind? A situation has now been created where someone will attempt to pass 2 or more cars on the left.

Drive up, maintaining respectful distance:
- If no movement, show right indicator. Wait. [has never worked]
- If no movement, flash. Wait. [sometimes works]
- If no movement, move into driving lane. Wait. [likely to work. Some panic when they realise you're 'crazy' enough to undertake and change lanes in a panic. These are the idiots that think they should police the 'fast' lane at the speed limit]
- If no movement, and not near a junction, chuck on the hazards and get past the idiot as quickly as your car will allow.
- Curse muppet, but don't beep or stare. You might startle him/her and get labelled a bad aggressive driver :rolleyes:

Zubeneschamali

mathepac wrote: »

Undertaking is both dangerous and illegal, if you don't agree get the road traffic laws changed, until then we simply obey them.

No "we" don't. Maybe you do, but life is too short.

ProudDUB

At the risk of sounding like a complete moron, what is undertaking exactly?

Is it over taking someone on the left, coz they are hogging the right lane & driving too slow?

Zubeneschamali

MrDerp wrote: »

The alternative is to sit behind the driver in the overtaking lane.

If you're coming up behind them in the overtaking lane, you are doing it wrong. You should be in the driving lane.

According to the Rules, when this happens, you are allowed to drive up level with them, but not to pass. You are obliged to form a rolling roadblock alongside them, which is more dangerous than simply passing.

MrDerp

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

If you're coming up behind them in the overtaking lane, you are doing it wrong. You should be in the driving lane.

According to the Rules, when this happens, you are allowed to drive up level with them, but not to pass. You are obliged to form a rolling roadblock alongside them, which is more dangerous than simply passing.

Naturally it's a given that one must first pull into the overtaking lane, but I tend to do this well in advance of my intention to overtake, which means I will come up behind the driver in the overtaking lane. It being a motorway, one can spot the lane hogger well in advance of any approach.

This also allows the other driver a longer opportunity to see me coming than if I simply pulled into the overtaking lane at the safe distance. Most lane hoggers, in my experience, will safely move in to the driving lane as you approach (if not defacto overtaking other traffic at that time), before pulling back out after you've passed. While this is also incorrect, I get that some people like to switch off with no traffic in front of them in their lane - fine as long as you switch on when being met by overtaking traffic.

Lane hoggers are the least of my issues to be honest though. My biggest problem is 100km/h drivers who catch up with 90km/h drivers, slow to match their speed, pull out and then try to overtake a 2-3km/h more than the traffic they are overtaking. They typically panic if there's any bit of a bend in the road then and sit outside a truck or bus until the road straightens out. They're more likely to form the roadblock (along with the trucks that overtake) than any mere lane hogger.

dillo2k10

mathepac wrote: »

What an endearingly naive post with the faithful little acolytes adding their +1's.

Passing on the near-side on a motorway is both dangerous and illegal, just in case it escaped your attention; another motorist being "in the wrong lane", as you so charmingly describe it, is merely a matter of opinion. Given the course of action you prescribe, yours thankfully doesn't count.

It is not just a matter of opinion, it is illegal to drive in the overtaking lane.

nookie

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