Chargers Thread

OAOB

Surprised we're hanging on to Ronnie Brown, he did well last year but if we're trying to get younger then he was an obvious cut. Woodhead should be a really good signing for us, should do the role Sproles had for us

Son Of A Vidic

Rochey18 wrote: »

Just signed Danny Woodhead, really like that signing...

OAOB wrote: »

..Woodhead should be a really good signing for us, should do the role Sproles had for us

Us Pats fans are sad to see Danny go, but such is life. I can guarantee you guys that he will not disappoint you.

Jolly Red Giant

Ronaldinho wrote: »

Elvis has left the building http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000151159/article/elvis-dumervil-cut-by-denver-broncos-after-fax-blunder

It will have far less effect on the Broncos than the Bolts losing Vasquez.

Justin10

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

It will have far less effect on the Broncos than the Bolts losing Vasquez.

Really don't see that, Corey Liuget will throw Vasquez around like a child.
We can now easily shift our Oline to the side Miller is, couldn't do that before.

Jolly Red Giant

Rochey18 wrote: »

Really don't see that, Corey Liuget will throw Vasquez around like a child.

The Broncos Oline is instantly better with Vasquez and Liuget only had one tackle and two assists in the October game and a single tackle against Manny Ramirez in the November game.

Rochey18 wrote: »

We can now easily shift our Oline to the side Miller is, couldn't do that before.

Please do - it will open up a pathway for blindside blitzes. An NFL team does have eleven players on the pitch you know.

Justin10

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

The Broncos Oline is instantly better with Vasquez and Liuget only had one tackle and two assists in the October game and a single tackle against Manny Ramirez in the November game.


Please do - it will open up a pathway for blindside blitzes. An NFL team does have eleven players on the pitch you know.

Suppose I better reply, its called slide protection. Used when you only have one premium pass rusher which would include the Broncos.
Corey Liuget is one of the best 3-4 DE in the league.

Jolly Red Giant

Rochey18 wrote: »

Suppose I better reply, its called slide protection. Used when you only have one premium pass rusher which would include the Broncos.

You are assuming that the Broncos will not replace Dumervil (indeed he could even be replaced by himself as the NFL could overturn the waiver and implement the new contract).

Vasquez would have been very handy if the Bolts Oline want to maximise sliding to stop Miller - its unfortunate for the Bolts that he is now with the Broncos.

The Bolts Oline was abysmal in 2012 and got significantly worse after losing Vasquez. If you want to utilise slide protection you need a half decent Oline - and the Bolts replaced Vasquez with Chad Who? I look forward to Reinhart and Clary "sliding" to block Miller.

Rochey18 wrote: »

Corey Liuget is one of the best 3-4 DE in the league.

From the Bleacher Report "Corey Liuget has been a full-time starter since day one, and he’s been average"

Shutdown Corner describe him as "solid"

I would actually regard Liuget as better than both those assessments - but "one of the best 3-4 DEs in the league"? - he has some way to go to be put in that company.

Justin10

You do know we have draft picks and still 10m under the cap, so don't know why you think our Oline is set

Also Corey Liuget average? Compare his season with Ngata.
He played two more games, Had 2 more sacks, 1 FF, 9 passes deflected which I think was only second to JJ Watt, Ngata had 1.
He is the second highest in 3-4 DE in sack count.

Two best in the league by far are JJ and Justin Smith.

Ye Corey Liuget is average, I would advise you stop wasting your time reading that rubbish.
Maybe watch some youtube videos of Vasquez instead

Jolly Red Giant

Rochey18 wrote: »

You do know we have draft picks and still 10m under the cap, so don't know why you think our Oline is set

Never said it was - but you are suggesting that the Broncos defense will collapse because Doom is off the team - Doom is a situational pass rusher who cost the Broncos big time in the run game last season.

As for draft picks - yes the Bolts might draft OL - but outside of a handful of elite college prospects over the years (e.g. Ryan Clady), OL players can take two or three years to grow into NFL OL players. The Broncos had to deal with this when Walton and Beadles were accelerated into the Broncos OL as rookies - it has hindered and has continued to hinder their development as players (and they will probably be cut when their contract ends as a result).

Rochey18 wrote: »

Also Corey Liuget average? Compare his season with Ngata.
He played two more games, Had 2 more sacks, 1 FF, 9 passes deflected which I think was only second to JJ Watt, Ngata had 1.

I didn't claim he was 'average' - I actually stated that I considered him better than that - what I disputed was your claim that he is one of the best 3-4 DEs in the NFL - he isn't.

Rochey18 wrote: »

Maybe watch some youtube videos of Vasquez instead

It's amazing how you can diss a guy because he turns his back on your team - a team that you claimed a couple of days ago that he wanted to remain with.

Let's be clear about a couple of things -
1. Is Vasquez the one of the best OGs in the NFL? - no he isn't
2. Was Vasquez the best Bolts OL player last year? - yes - by a wide margin
3. Will Vasquez be an immediate upgrade of the Broncos OL? - absolutely.

I am very happy with the signing of Vasquez - and it astonishes me that the Bolts who have such an atrocious OL would not make him an offer he couldn't refuse.

Justin10

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Never said it was - but you are suggesting that the Broncos defense will collapse because Doom is off the team - Doom is a situational pass rusher who cost the Broncos big time in the run game last season.

I never said it would collopse, all I said was our Oline could concentrate on where Miller lines up.

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

As for draft picks - yes the Bolts might draft OL - but outside of a handful of elite college prospects over the years (e.g. Ryan Clady), OL players can take two or three years to grow into NFL OL players.

Thats true but nothing the Chargers can do about that, but who ever we draft will be starting.

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

I didn't claim he was 'average' - I actually stated that I considered him better than that - what I disputed was your claim that he is one of the best 3-4 DEs in the NFL - he isn't.

Since you are so sure he isnt a top 3-4 DE, I would be interested who else you would have ahead of our 2nd year DE.

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

It's amazing how you can diss a guy because he turns his back on your team - a team that you claimed a couple of days ago that he wanted to remain with.

I am very happy with the signing of Vasquez - and it astonishes me that the Bolts who have such an atrocious OL would not make him an offer he couldn't refuse.

He did want to stay with us, he wanted the same deal he got off the Broncos.
AJ Smith and Telesco didnt want to pay it. I think that speaks more of his talent.

No one is dissing Vasquez, everyone said he is decent in pass blocking, and not that good at run blocking.

Jolly Red Giant

We could go around in circles for the evening - two games next season will determine who is right and who is wrong.

Justin10

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

We could go around in circles for the evening - two games next season will determine who is right and who is wrong.

Would still like to know who you consider better then Liuget?

Justin10

Rochey18 wrote: »

Would still like to know who you consider better then Liuget?

Still interested

Leslie91

Wow...... some great debate on our thread!!. Tks for coming in Jolly Red Giant and fair play to Rochey for fighting the good fight!.

Here's my 2 cents.

Yes the Chargers O line was atrocious in 2012. Vasquez was probably the best performer on that line, closely followed by Hardwick. Vasquez is a huge body who for me underachieves. He may even have more tools than say the likes of Dielman ever had but does not seem to be aggressive/confident enough to use them to dominate. He's been much more used to pass protecting all his career (going back to college days) and there's no doubt playing alongside Clary did not help him. My only real gripe about losing him is that he has gone to an in division team. He might improve your O line greatly but for us, like the other 3 positions (center apart) on the line, all are replaceable. In fact his replacement may actually have been a Charger last yr i.e. Troutman.

As for Liuget. I knew of him when we drafted him and must say I was disappointed at the pick on the day. But no more. He is turning into a proper 3-4 DE now and will only get better alongside say Franklin and a fantastic young player in Reyes. I dunno about him being one of the best in the league be that top 5 or 10 or whatever but he is a serious young player with a great attitude. The kind of guy we should lock up ala Donald Butler say.

It'll be interesting to see how Vasquez fares in Denver. Any word since McCoys exit as to what sort of O line running game they are going to employ. As mentioned above his main weakness for me is run blocking.

Justin10

Who do you think is better then Liuget, because I honestly cant think of any past 3 I mentioned, be interesting see who Im forgetting.

Justin Smith and JJ and top two with Ngata, but Corey performed better then Ngata last year. I cant think of any 3-4 DE Id have after that

Leslie91

Rochey18 wrote: »

Who do you think is better then Liuget, because I honestly cant think of any past 3 I mentioned, be interesting see who Im forgetting.

Justin Smith and JJ and top two with Ngata, but Corey performed better then Ngata last year. I cant think of any 3-4 DE Id have after that

Who is playing a strictish 3-4 nowadays apart from us, the Niners, Ravens and Texans?.

Green Bay right?, Raji is playing nose though correct?, there are other teams aswell I guess, off top of my head and in middle of offseason they are not coming to me!.

Justin10

Dallas, Miami, Colts, Steelers,Texans, Kansas and Arizona.
Do Washington too?

Out of all them teams Id have Liuget at 3 or 4

OAOB

By nature a DE in a 3-4 isn't going to grab many headlines, they are there to fill space and create holes for pass rushing LBs mostly. Watching the Chargers every week it is obvious that Liuget is an excellent DE for us but unless you watch other 3-4 defences play weekly then it can be very hard to judge their DEs. In a 4-3 defence its a lot easier as they are stat driven positions where as in a 3-4 the number of tackles or sacks a DE has will not truly reflect the effectiveness of the player.
Liuget came out of college as a junior when he probably shouldn't have and struggled in year 1, last year showed a huge improvement and i think he'll kick on again this year.

With regard to Vasquez he was a good Guard for us but always felt he could improve. I think he's a great fit for the Broncos as he'll keep Manning upright

Leslie91

OAOB wrote: »

By nature a DE in a 3-4 isn't going to grab many headlines, they are there to fill space and create holes for pass rushing LBs mostly. Watching the Chargers every week it is obvious that Liuget is an excellent DE for us but unless you watch other 3-4 defences play weekly then it can be very hard to judge their DEs. In a 4-3 defence its a lot easier as they are stat driven positions where as in a 3-4 the number of tackles or sacks a DE has will not truly reflect the effectiveness of the player.
Liuget came out of college as a junior when he probably shouldn't have and struggled in year 1, last year showed a huge improvement and i think he'll kick on again this year.

I'd agree with that in bold, 3-4 DEs are defo not headline/stat/sack grabbing ends. Hence it's hard to say unless you are watching all these defenses play regularly.

Leslie91

Rochey18 wrote: »

Dallas, Miami, Colts, Steelers,Texans, Kansas and Arizona.
Do Washington too?

Out of all them teams Id have Liuget at 3 or 4

Off the top of my head...

Spears (average), Wake (top player, is he really a 3-4 DE?), Moala (average), Keisel/Hood (average), Tyson Jackson (ha ha ha what a bust), Dockett (can be a beast), Campbell (average).

I think the Redskins run a 3-4 but by no means have any stars on the D line.

OAOB

I know we're trying to get younger but really thought Franklin was worth bringing back for another year, his performance last year warranted it. NT is a tough place for Rookies and it's definitely an area of need for us now, if the 3 LTs are gone by no.11 and Lotulelei checks out then i reckon we take him, it'll give us one of the best young lines in the league.

Leslie91

OAOB wrote: »

I know we're trying to get younger but really thought Franklin was worth bringing back for another year, his performance last year warranted it. NT is a tough place for Rookies and it's definitely an area of need for us now, if the 3 LTs are gone by no.11 and Lotulelei checks out then i reckon we take him, it'll give us one of the best young lines in the league.

Yeah losing Franklin leaves us mega thin at nose now. I guess another warm body will be found off the scrap heap. I'd hate to see us take a D lineman at #11 but like u say if the 3 frontline Tackles are gone it might be a case of best player available at a position of dire need. Were we to get Winston then all of a sudden we have some decent depth even if/when big lazy is released (reading the UT today it seems that it will happen soon).

OAOB

I really hate the idea of keeping Gaither but for the sake of saving 500k i'd keep him until after the draft, we'd know the depth of our O-line by then and it might not be pretty.

Ronaldinho

We should have no shortage of compensatory picks next year!! I'm all for a younger roster but the likes of Franklin would have started and given us some semblance of continuity, and we could surely just have brought him back on a 1yr deal. At this rate we will come in well under the cap, even allowing for signing rookies and some more FA vets for depth.

Leslie91

I see we've brought in another O lineman. U have to wonder are these guys truly better than Ty Green?, a guy who has been here knows the RB and QB?

http://www.chargers.com/news/press-releases/article-1/Chargers-Sign-Ohrnberger/fdccce1f-5ade-4913-92f7-09e4e16e2a3b

I understand familiarity and all but seems these lads coming in from AZ are down to the Whiz connection. I just think it's interesting that some of these guys (albeit cheap I'm sure) are being taken in over Green.

OAOB

Saw us signing that Guard from Arizona, they had one of the worst lines last year so it can hardly be that big an upgrade. On the flip side we had the worst so everything is an upgrade. Familiarity with players is big for coaches and Whisenhunt obviously wants to deal with some people he knows. The good thing about this is he's not going to bring any player he doesn't think is better than what we already have.
I wasn't impressed with Green whenever i saw him but no player could look good with the LTs we had beside them last year. Not sure if he's good enough to be anything more than a back up but i'd hope some team would give him a fair chance to earn a spot.

Justin10

Woodhead's contract, $3.5 with $1M guaranteed.

OAOB

Rochey18 wrote: »

Woodhead's contract, $3.5 with $1M guaranteed.

Amazing he couldn't get that off New England, good for us

HigginsJ

Rochey18 wrote: »

Woodhead's contract, $3.5 with $1M guaranteed.

Such a fan of this guy. Would have loved him to join us but hope it goes well for him in San Diego.

Will he get much work behind Ryan Matthews?

OAOB

Not sure if you go on to Bolts from the Blue (very good blog) but there was a very good podcast done recently that covered our draft needs in the first and what we should do with Gaither

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frRXNtOxGwI

Makes a very good case for going NT in the first i thought