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HEC SF: Clermont Auvergne vs Leinster; Sunday 29 April, KO 1600(CET); Live Sky Sports

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    #1232
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    I thought the assault on Cullen was far worse, I'm sure Boss will be fine.


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    #1233
    Fishooks12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭Fishooks12


    MungBean wrote: »
    It was the work of a scumbag and led to the injury and replacement of a player in the semi final of the biggest competition in the northern hemisphere. I'd give the refs a bit off a break considering it was off the ball and its wasnt clear at the time. But the citing commission exists to discipline behaviour like this, if they cannot do it then you bypass them.

    I'm sorry but this doesnt sit well with me at all to have Boss pay the price on the day and still now considering he was unavailable this weekend because of it while Cudmores actions are being brushed off as "Its a rough game".

    I'm not for one second condoning the hit, it was very bad. But if you were to get police involved for every such hit there would be a lot of courtcases in a pro rugby year

    And, as Tox said the shoulder charge on Cullen was worse


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    #1234
    padraig.od
    Registered Users Posts: 772 ✭✭✭padraig.od


    Fishooks12 wrote: »
    I'm not for one second condoning the hit, it was very bad. But if you were to get police involved for every such hit there would be a lot of courtcases in a pro rugby year

    And, as Tox said the shoulder charge on Cullen was worse

    If anyone had a copy of the game have a look at the ruck that comes right after the penalty from the scrum at the end. Cullen gets an other hammering from the side of a ruck, he takes some abuse.


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    #1235
    totallegend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭totallegend


    Fishooks12 wrote: »
    And, as Tox said the shoulder charge on Cullen was worse

    More dangerous definitely, but at least Bardy's hit on Cullen was in the thick of it, Bardy could argue he was trying to counter-ruck and got carried away in what was a crucial period of the match.

    Cudmore hit Boss because he knew the ref would be following the play and wouldn't see it, so he took his opportunity. No justification, no provocation, just a cheap hit from a limited rugby player trying to justify his rep as an enforcer.


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    #1236
    Fishooks12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭Fishooks12


    totallegend wrote: »
    More dangerous definitely, but at least Bardy's hit on Cullen was in the thick of it, Bardy could argue he was trying to counter-ruck and got carried away in what was a crucial period of the match.

    Cudmore hit Boss because he knew the ref would be following the play and wouldn't see it, so he took his opportunity. No justification, no provocation, just a cheap hit from a limited rugby player trying to justify his rep as an enforcer.

    All true

    Would be ridiculous to seek criminal charges though


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    #1237
    MungBean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,915 ✭✭✭MungBean


    Fishooks12 wrote: »
    I'm not for one second condoning the hit, it was very bad. But if you were to get police involved for every such hit there would be a lot of courtcases in a pro rugby year

    And, as Tox said the shoulder charge on Cullen was worse

    I'm not saying get the police involved for every such hit I'm saying take action on any such hits that affect your players and your club when the ERC doesnt. The ERC can ignore the bulk of them and the consequences on the players if they can be easily brushed aside. If Leinster made a fuss about it then the next one wouldnt be brushed aside so easily.

    The incident on Cullen is just another example of the ERC ignoring such things. I wouldnt say it was worse than Cudmore for the simple fact that it can be categorised as bad rucking. What Cudmore did was nothing other than an attack on a fellow player. It wasnt a late tackle it was an off the ball hit for no other reason than to do it. Ball was gone and the only reason to do what he did was to injure another player. I dont care how rough a game is scumbag behaviour like that shouldnt be tolerated. And tolerating it is exactly what the ERC is doing. So I say Leinster should discipline Cudmore themselves.


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    #1238
    totallegend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭totallegend


    Fishooks12 wrote: »
    All true

    Would be ridiculous to seek criminal charges though

    Yes


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    #1239
    tolosenc
    Registered Users Posts: 6,889 ✭✭✭tolosenc


    totallegend wrote: »
    Bardy could argue he was trying to counter-ruck and got carried away in what was a crucial period of the match.

    Which would get him off as far as the head-butt. What he did after that was dispicable and should be severely punished. You can't just go gripping players by the neck like that.


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    #1240
    totallegend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭totallegend


    tolosenc wrote: »
    Which would get him off as far as the head-butt. What he did after that was dispicable and should be severely punished. You can't just go gripping players by the neck like that.

    I'm not saying that it was legitimate rucking, I was using it to highlight how cynical and low Cudmore's hit was rather than excusing Bardy.


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    #1241
    BrunoGeist
    Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭BrunoGeist


    Any details on Boss's injury? I mean is it directly related to Cudmore's attack like broken jaw or something? I understand this game is tough but "players" like good old Jamie (the Debt Collector) spoil it for all. Sorry but in my book he's a book example of an utter d**che.

    As Seasick Steve put it:
    "Everything thang goes out come back around,
    Treat someone like a dog it'll come back,
    Come back and bite you and that's a fact."


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    #1242
    Cpt_Blackbeard
    Registered Users Posts: 2,456 ✭✭✭Cpt_Blackbeard


    MungBean wrote: »
    I'm not saying get the police involved for every such hit I'm saying take action on any such hits that affect your players and your club when the ERC doesnt. The ERC can ignore the bulk of them and the consequences on the players if they can be easily brushed aside. If Leinster made a fuss about it then the next one wouldnt be brushed aside so easily.

    The incident on Cullen is just another example of the ERC ignoring such things. I wouldnt say it was worse than Cudmore for the simple fact that it can be categorised as bad rucking. What Cudmore did was nothing other than an attack on a fellow player. It wasnt a late tackle it was an off the ball hit for no other reason than to do it. Ball was gone and the only reason to do what he did was to injure another player. I dont care how rough a game is scumbag behaviour like that shouldnt be tolerated. And tolerating it is exactly what the ERC is doing. So I say Leinster should discipline Cudmore themselves.

    Cudmore is a simple thug, but Leinster don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to blind eyes being turned to possible citings in the HEC semi's. In another world, SOB would have missed last year's final and Cullen would miss this year's. The citing commissioner should have cited Cudmore, but Leinster themselves raising issue with it would be a terrible decision.

    Citing Cudmore won't bring Boss back for the final, and Leinster are lucky that its only their second choice scrumhalf that is missing. It will weaken the match-day squad, but Ulster don't have much of an impact outside their starting XV so it won't be a huge issue.


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    #1243
    Quint2010
    Registered Users Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭Quint2010


    Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »
    Cudmore is a simple thug, but Leinster don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to blind eyes being turned to possible citings in the HEC semi's. In another world, SOB would have missed last year's final and Cullen would miss this year's. The citing commissioner should have cited Cudmore, but Leinster themselves raising issue with it would be a terrible decision.

    Citing Cudmore won't bring Boss back for the final, and Leinster are lucky that its only their second choice scrumhalf that is missing. It will weaken the match-day squad, but Ulster don't have much of an impact outside their starting XV so it won't be a huge issue.

    Agreed. Cullen was lucky both not to see yellow or be cited. If you dish it out you go to learn to take it.


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    #1244
    ongarite
    Registered Users Posts: 8,214 ✭✭✭ongarite


    Anyone have a link to say Boss is injured and/or is going to miss the HC final besides not being on the bench for the game this evening?


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    #1245
    rrpc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭rrpc


    Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »
    Cudmore is a simple thug, but Leinster don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to blind eyes being turned to possible citings in the HEC semi's. In another world, SOB would have missed last year's final and Cullen would miss this year's. The citing commissioner should have cited Cudmore, but Leinster themselves raising issue with it would be a terrible decision.
    If Cullen's was at worst a yellow, then by definition it wouldn't be a citing.

    Cudmore no more than a yellow for me either, which is why I suspect the citing commissioner didn't cite it.


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    #1246
    Hagz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,257 ✭✭✭Hagz


    I thought Boss's injury wasn't that serious, now he's missing the final??


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    #1247
    rrpc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭rrpc


    Hagz wrote: »
    I thought Boss's injury wasn't that serious, now he's missing the final??
    Reported as being doubtful for tonight's game, not the HEC final which is two weeks away.


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    #1248
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    MungBean wrote: »
    I'm not saying get the police involved for every such hit I'm saying take action on any such hits that affect your players and your club when the ERC doesnt. The ERC can ignore the bulk of them and the consequences on the players if they can be easily brushed aside. If Leinster made a fuss about it then the next one wouldnt be brushed aside so easily.

    The incident on Cullen is just another example of the ERC ignoring such things. I wouldnt say it was worse than Cudmore for the simple fact that it can be categorised as bad rucking. What Cudmore did was nothing other than an attack on a fellow player. It wasnt a late tackle it was an off the ball hit for no other reason than to do it. Ball was gone and the only reason to do what he did was to injure another player. I dont care how rough a game is scumbag behaviour like that shouldnt be tolerated. And tolerating it is exactly what the ERC is doing. So I say Leinster should discipline Cudmore themselves.

    Whilst I agree that the late off the ball challenge was out of order, I think 'Leinster should discipline Cudmore themselves' is also a bit mad.

    The citing commissioners are there. If Leinster really wanted something done about it, they'd make a fuss to the press. You could imagine the results.

    As for pressing charges, that makes a clear indication to the ERC staff. Politics will be politics. You can't go over the ERC's head on these things, as then you'll find yourself on the wrong side of them, which no club/province would want.

    It was a late charge. So what? We won. That'll do thanks. We were lucky to get away with not being cited on a few occasions from the game to be fair.


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    #1249
    danthefan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    Should SOB have been arrested for clattering Nyanga last season for example?


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    #1250
    19543261
    Registered Users Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭19543261


    Arrest everyone.


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    #1251
    MungBean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,915 ✭✭✭MungBean


    .ak wrote: »
    Whilst I agree that the late off the ball challenge was out of order, I think 'Leinster should discipline Cudmore themselves' is also a bit mad.

    The citing commissioners are there. If Leinster really wanted something done about it, they'd make a fuss to the press. You could imagine the results.

    If a player is injured by what the team or player themselves believes to be foul play and the ERC dont wanna know they should challenge it through whatever means they can. We have seen it before and if Boss's injury was worse I have no doubt he would do just that. As it is it can be brushed aside easily enough as part of the game etc etc. Ok talking of criminal charges was a bit over the top but I was just trying to stress the point that if the ERC ignore this type of thing when it seriously affects a player. And it has seriously affected Boss in that he had to be taken off in what was at the time the biggest game of the year for him and he's still not fullt fit because of it which is affecting him and his training when he has a huge game in a couple weeks then the lack of ERC action should have been highlighted by Leinster whether in the media or through the courts.
    As for pressing charges, that makes a clear indication to the ERC staff. Politics will be politics. You can't go over the ERC's head on these things, as then you'll find yourself on the wrong side of them, which no club/province would want.

    Fear of getting on the wrong side of the ERC is a pretty pathetic reason not to pursue an incident of foul play which left a player injured.
    It was a late charge. So what? We won. That'll do thanks. We were lucky to get away with not being cited on a few occasions from the game to be fair.

    So Boss was injured because of it, are you saying its of no consequence unless it affects the result regardless of how it affects the player ? There was nothing worthy of a citing on the Leinseter end imo, but several on the Clermont end. ERC should do their jobs and crack down on this crap.

    Just to add to the debate on the level of some other posters. *clears throat* So you think Cudmore should have hit him harder ? Off the ball hits are ok ? Players shouldnt say anything if the ref doesnt see it ? derp derp :rolleyes:


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    #1252
    danthefan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    Yep that's exactly what I meant. Because I don't think Cudmore should be feckin arrested it means I think late hits are great and Cudmore should have hit him harder.


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    #1253
    MungBean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,915 ✭✭✭MungBean


    danthefan wrote: »
    Yep that's exactly what I meant. Because I don't think Cudmore should be feckin arrested it means I think late hits are great and Cudmore should have hit him harder.

    Just like my exact argument was that SOB should have been arrested last year. I'm just responding on the level of your argument. Not my fault its so fcukin stupid.


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    #1254
    danthefan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    It must be that time of the month, you're getting hysterical.


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    #1255
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    I dunno Mung, I think you're getting a little wound up by the whole situation. Is Boss your brother or something? :D

    But seriously, yeah it's a citing offence, but TECHNICALLY so was Leo's slap/SOB's dig/Leo's ball-gouge/Brady's headbutt... The point is, if it gets missed by the citing comissioner, so be it, c'est la vie, live and let die, and other such clichés. That's life and it's a part of sport. Sometimes these things are brought up, but 9 times out of 10 the reason they are is because the ruling bodies are trying to stamp that bit of play out. Late challenges are there, but I'd much rather someone being cited for gouging or stamping then a little bit of SH bullying.


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    #1256
    MungBean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,915 ✭✭✭MungBean


    danthefan wrote: »
    It must be that time of the month, you're getting hysterical.

    Others have been able to discuss this like adults why not you ? Why is a weak comparison and moronic statement the best you can add ? .ak, Fishhook's and others obviously disagree stongly with me yet have decidied to engage. Yet others have nothing better to do but turn it into a fcukin row.


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    #1257
    danthefan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    MungBean wrote: »
    danthefan wrote: »
    It must be that time of the month, you're getting hysterical.

    Others have been able to discuss this like adults why not you ? Why is a weak comparison and moronic statement the best you can add ? .ak, Fishhook's and others obviously disagree stongly with me yet have decidied to engage. Yet others have nothing better to do but turn it into a fcukin row.

    Are you for real? I made a point. You start crying about how ****ing stupid and moronic it is without ever actually addressing why, and then decide I'm the one looking for a row?


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    #1258
    MungBean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,915 ✭✭✭MungBean


    .ak wrote: »
    I dunno Mung, I think you're getting a little wound up by the whole situation. Is Boss your brother or something? :D

    Time for a break methinks. Might go see what Isaac is at and how he's gettin on with his new wheelchair.

    I dunno I think it should have been cited and I think the injury means it shouldnt be let slide regardless of it not being cited. Anyway time to move on, this discussion is going downhill fast thanks.

    EDIT: That thanks at the end looks like I'm blaming you for the discussion going south but I'm not at all. I was gonna say "Thanks for humouring me anyway" but I decided to cut it out and failed it seems.


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    #1259
    MungBean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,915 ✭✭✭MungBean


    danthefan wrote: »
    Are you for real? I made a point. You start crying about how ****ing stupid and moronic it is without ever actually addressing why, and then decide I'm the one looking for a row?

    What point ? Saying "So SOB should have been arrested?" makes what point exactly ? They are two different incidents and I never even said anyone should be arrested. I said Leinster should take action themselves if the ERC didnt considering the impact on Boss.

    I responded to you in the manner you responded to me. Ignoring your point and throwing out a stupid statement. Why should I take the time to try and root out your point when your not even arsed posting it to begin with ?


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    #1260
    Jello
    Registered Users Posts: 2,739 ✭✭✭Jello


    Leinster just posted some pictures on facebook of a few of the squad messing around in Stephen's Green today for some kids thing, Boss looks grand

    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150878075090240&set=a.10150878059115240.464670.25793755239&type=3&theater


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    #1261
    totallegend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭totallegend


    Jello wrote: »
    Leinster just posted some pictures on facebook of a few of the squad messing around in Stephen's Green today for some kids thing, Boss looks grand

    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150878075090240&set=a.10150878059115240.464670.25793755239&type=3&theater

    Boss the victim of another off the ball incident there. That toddler has a mean look in his eye.


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