HEC SF: Clermont Auvergne vs Leinster; Sunday 29 April, KO 1600(CET); Live Sky Sports

Fishooks12

my friend wrote: »

would you not agree that he does not have the physical game that Boss brought?

Yes, anyone with half a brain could tell you Reddan hasn't the physicality of Boss. Same goes for Boss not having half the speed from the base as Reddan. Not seeing your point there

Yes, he came on full of adrenaline but look what happens when you're not in control.... crazy DG attempt, penalty conceded

So a DG attempt when there was nothing going on and and conceding a penalty is your reasoning behind Reddan having a bad game?

in a game like the one we are discussing its your errors that will cost you the game, esp w Brock James kicking

The penalty Reddan gave away, which was in no way a stupid penalty to concede was in the Clermont half. Assuming that logic it's fair to say that you must think SOB and Cullen had "howlers" too for conceding penalties (kickable ones too unlike Reddans)

The other "error" you refer to is a drop goal attempt where Reddan was caught in an awkward position from a line-out. Probably was a bit of a mad attempt but in no way could it have "cost Leinster the game". The result of it was a 22 drop out from which Leinster regained the ball 5 metres behind where Reddan attempted the kick

if anyone had debated w me, I would have developed my reasoning , instead we witnessed a collective attack dog knee jerk defence.

I now know better how things work here

Plenty of people have pointed out why Reddan had a good game to you so there's no point in going over that again.

You're the one only stifling debate by trying to claim a DG attempt and giving away a penalty constitute a "howler" then throw your toys out of the pram when people punch holes in this wafer thin argument

Flincher

Sundy wrote: »

What exactly should he be citied for? Grabbing a players shorts?

theres no way he was able to catch a hold of the guys nuts there.

In the Aviva Premiership, the RFU have started to cite these incidents under acts contrary to good sportsmanship, which can carry a very long ban. Both Callum Clarke and Chris Ashton were suspended under it in the last few months.

It looks like all Cullen got was a fistful of shorts. What was he trying to do though?

KERSPLAT!

Flincher wrote: »

In the Aviva Premiership, the RFU have started to cite these incidents under acts contrary to good sportsmanship, which can carry a very long ban. Both Callum Clarke and Chris Ashton were suspended under it in the last few months.

It looks like all Cullen got was a fistful of shorts. What was he trying to do though?

Maybe that's all he was trying to do?

tolosenc

For the Reddan debate:

We commanded territory with Reddan in a way we just did not with Boss. If memory serves most of the 2nd half was played in Clermont's half, whereas the first was in ours.

prospect

It would seem to me (and I am far from being an expert on rugby) that some people do not recognise some of the monumental efforts put in by each player on the pitch.

Just because someone didn't have a glorious intercept and run the length of the pitch to finish with a somersault try under the posts, doesn't mean they played badly or didn't contribute.

.ak

Benny Cake wrote: »

Prediction time

Leinster by 2 (19:17)

Not bad!

errlloyd

Here on the cullen incident. I presume Rougerie was wearing suspension shorts of some kind, I don't think Cullen reached up far enough to really grasp anything. Furthermore I'd say the last thing going through his head right there was "gonna give him a cheeky sack tap" he was rucking with all his heart and mind.

tolosenc

Citation deadline has passed, right?

Any word on Cudmore, Cullen or Bardy?

profitius

I saw the Cullen incident. If he ment that its a disgrace to not only Leinster but Irish rugby. IF he ment it!

Fishooks12

profitius wrote: »

I saw the Cullen incident. If he ment that its a disgrace to not only Leinster but Irish rugby. IF he ment it!

Which is impossible to tell! Best move on now I reckon!

Big Nelly

profitius wrote: »

I saw the Cullen incident. If he ment that its a disgrace to not only Leinster but Irish rugby. IF he ment it!

It was a HC semi...it was very high intensity....can't see him having the time to actually think about doing it....just pure nit picking......get over it...onto the final

BarackPyjama

profitius wrote: »

I saw the Cullen incident. If he ment that its a disgrace to not only Leinster but Irish rugby. IF he ment it!

All other players from all provinces were saints before this unseemly incident. He really has dragged the good name of gentlemanly Irish rugby through the dirt. Rugby is well on its way to becoming a real rough and tumble sport, full of ghastly collisions and punch ups. God forbid.

Aidric

Don't think he connected with his nuts but a finger might have made contact with his hole. :eek:

Bearcat

Aidric wrote: »

Don't think he connected with his nuts but a finger might have made contact with his hole. :eek:

I hope he doesn't bite his finger nails as the waft of garlic and meard is not a taste I could not contemplate!!:D

MungBean

Aidric wrote: »

Don't think he connected with his nuts but a finger might have made contact with his hole. :eek:

Maybe he didnt throw the punch either ? Maybe he was just trying to get yer man to smell his finger.

rrpc

Big Nelly wrote: »

It was a HC semi...it was very high intensity....can't see him having the time to actually think about doing it....just pure nit picking......get over it...onto the final

I see what you did there, very good

profitius

Big Nelly wrote: »

It was a HC semi...it was very high intensity....can't see him having the time to actually think about doing it....just pure nit picking......get over it...onto the final

BarackPyjama wrote: »

All other players from all provinces were saints before this unseemly incident. He really has dragged the good name of gentlemanly Irish rugby through the dirt. Rugby is well on its way to becoming a real rough and tumble sport, full of ghastly collisions and punch ups. God forbid.

You're both like those bad parents who blame others when their kids misbehave. Although you might not want to hear it I think that sort of thing (again, IF its intentional) needs to be stamped out of the game.

prospect

Flincher wrote: »

In the Aviva Premiership, the RFU have started to cite these incidents under acts contrary to good sportsmanship, which can carry a very long ban. Both Callum Clarke and Chris Ashton were suspended under it in the last few months.

It looks like all Cullen got was a fistful of shorts. What was he trying to do though?

Please tell me you are not comparing the incident where Clarke tried to break a guys arm with this total non-event!!!


Wow, way to ruin a good vibe guys. Leinster are one (admittedly very hard) match away from cementing their position as undoubtedly the best team in Europe, and this is the main topic of conversation.
Mother of god.

danthefan

prospect wrote: »

Please tell me you are not comparing the incident where Clarke tried to break a guys arm with this total non-event!!!


Wow, way to ruin a good vibe guys. Leinster are one (admittedly very hard) match away from cementing their position as undoubtedly the best team in Europe, and this is the main topic of conversation.
Mother of god.

Not only did he try, he was extremely successful.

Would tend to agree this is a non-event. If he's cited and it turns out a Clermont player testifies to having his balls grabbed I'll change my mind. Until that point it clearly looks like he grabbed a handful of shorts while looking in the opposite direction and people are getting hysterical.

The Aussie

danthefan wrote: »

If he's cited and it turns out a Clermont player testifies to having his balls grabbed.

The After Hours reply to this would be, The Frenchie was fuming he did not get "The Happy Ending" of old big ears, being French and all.
I will go and sit in the bold corner now

Flincher

prospect wrote: »

Please tell me you are not comparing the incident where Clarke tried to break a guys arm with this total non-event!!!


Wow, way to ruin a good vibe guys. Leinster are one (admittedly very hard) match away from cementing their position as undoubtedly the best team in Europe, and this is the main topic of conversation.
Mother of god.

No I'm not. I think the poster I quoted asked what he would be cited for, as presumably there isnt a specific law for grabbing somebody by the nads. I just mentioned that pulling hair and what Clarke did went under acts contrary to good sportsmanship, so if they were to cite Cullen, that is what he could be cited under. I wasnt comparing their actions at all.

For the record, I dont think there is a lot in it, but Im fairly puzzled as to what Cullen was up to having his hand in that region in the first place.

Sundy

Flincher wrote: »

No I'm not. I think the poster I quoted asked what he would be cited for, as presumably there isnt a specific law for grabbing somebody by the nads. I just mentioned that pulling hair and what Clarke did went under acts contrary to good sportsmanship, so if they were to cite Cullen, that is what he could be cited under. I wasnt comparing their actions at all.

For the record, I dont think there is a lot in it, but Im fairly puzzled as to what Cullen was up to having his hand in that region in the first place.

Ok, so what was Cullen doing?

Cullen was doing his best to help his team at the ruck. He found himself trapped at the bottom of the ruck so he looked for a way that he could still be some use.
This kind of thing happens all the time in rucks, player grabbing shorts, jerseys, ankles, scrum caps and whatever they can get hold of to try get an advantage for their team.
I suspect Cullen knew Rougerie had a pretty good body position and was trying to help off balance him. It might only mean a millimetre or two but as we saw at the end of the game, the smallest amount matters in rugby.


Anyway,I know I hold onto the opposition at ruck time when I'm playing, do you not?

Flincher

Well I'm a back......

Like I said earlier, I don't think there's a lot in it. I just think its a fairly bizarre thing to do, and a bit like putting your hands on someone's face, you're leaving yourself open to a citing, even if its reckless rather than deliberate. Admittedly, thats the last thing going through someone's mind when at the bottom of a ruck.

I think the window for citings has passed now, so the powers that be must have thought there was nothing in it either.

Sundy

If you read my post above you will see why its not a bizarre thing to do at all. The shorts in that area just happened to be the closest thing to grab.

As I said, do you not do that kind of thing when your playing?

.ak

ScareGilly wrote: »

YESSSS! Healy at 55/1 to score the first try and Leinster to win!

Just saw this. JAMMY GIT!

padraig.od

Is the citing window closed yet?

rrpc

padraig.od wrote: »

Is the citing window closed yet?

Yes, it closes 48 hours after the final whistle.

padraig.od

rrpc wrote: »

Yes, it closes 48 hours after the final whistle.

Fairly bad that nothing was done about Bardy or Cudmore.

rrpc

padraig.od wrote: »

Fairly bad that nothing was done about Bardy or Cudmore.

Obviously viewed as YC at worst by the citing commissioner, which tbh could well be correct.

As was Leo's 'punch' apparently.

.ak

I got back from Bordeaux on Monday, and only got through reading this thread now. My 2c on the match...


First off, I just have to mention to those unfortunate enough not to make it to Bordeaux that the experience of marching to Stade Chaban with the rest of the fans was one of the best experiences I've ever had as a Rugby fan.

Whilst you may have heard constant boo'ing on the TV from Clermont fans, let me tell you that they are the furthest thing from hostile, or bad sports. It's just their way, they like to use the advantage of having 30,000 fans there to try and influence decisions. And so they should. Home advantage is home advantage.

Arriving at the stadium we were greeted by thousands of Clermont fans of all ages, we were treated like some sort of liberating army - they shook our hands, hugged us, kissed us, sang with us, gave us free wine and food. It was bizarre yet amazingly welcoming at the same time. They even made a banner in Irish to welcome us. The atmosphere around the ground itself was unbelievable, it was like a festival or something, brass bands on every corner, plenty of wine and beer, the sun was shining... Amazing experience, I won't forget it anytime soon.


As for the match itself, well the intensity at the match itself was something to behold. Aside from the Clermont fans being their noisy selves, we were in full song and it may as well have been a terrace, it was that kind of atmosphere - totally rammed, barely enough space to sit down so we stood for most of it, chanting and singing and waving flags... So analyzing the match real time wasn't the easiest thing to do. When we saw the replay of the Fofana knock on at the end I swear we celebrated like wild monkeys, the place went off big time.

I re-watched the match last night, and have to say, the whole Barnes 'gifting' us the game couldn't be further from the truth. I agree we were lucky in several respect - I think Leo's punch was barely that, he just tried to shove the player off because he was being held off the ball. Watching it again, that was right infront of us, and a lot of the Clermont players were up to all sorts of dirty tricks before it blew up. So in one respect Leo was lucky not to get a card for it, but in another sense the Clermont players were lucky not to get yellows for the amount of infringements.

The only yellows I thought Leinster deserved was Darce's cynical kicking of the ball offside, and Jamie's pulling at the line out.

However, in nearly every ruck we had to deal with two 18 stone locks lying on the wrong side of the ruck over the ball. How Cudmore and Hines didn't get yellows amazed me, after watching the game again from a more relaxed, analytical point of view I can definitely say that Clermont were just as lucky with ref as we were.

There was elements of luck that helped and hindered both teams. The Fofana knock on, the unlucky bounce for Isa, the missed infringements and niggily scraps from both sides.

IIRC the penalty count was 13-12 to Leinster. It doesn't get more tight than that. If Barnes did us a favour, then he did a favour equally to Clermont. A different ref might've yielded a different result, having said that the teams might've approached the game in a different manner with a different ref so we will never know I guess.

One thing is for sure, Leinster were the better team, and luck didn't win them the game. The first half they struggled with the set pieces, but looked dangerous anyway. In the second half the pack found their footing and the Healy try came straight off the training paddock, no luck involved just good play. Same with the Kearney's DG, it was a beaut. After that spell of points Leinster turned the screw and dominated the game.

They only have themselves for blame for giving away those cheap penalties and free kicks at the end, but Clermont should've never been let near that try line.

I think Barnes got a little lost in the occasion at the end mind you. The SOB turn over won us the game. Yet, wasn't it penalty advantage? It was a strange one, but looking at it again, I think Barnes spotted several things from the Clermont pack and wasn't happy with his initial decision to award the penalty from the 5m scrum. The Clermont pack wheeled it and bore in from the side, it was completely illegal, but Barnes just saw blue shirts on the deck and called it without thinking.

Then there was the assault on Leo, something tells me Barnes caught that from the corner of his eye and just decided that he had a better view of it he would be reversing the penalty... He then looked for any excuse to give Leinster a pen. SOB got his hands on the ball and that was enough. You can see James running up to Barnes and Barnes won't even look him in the eye, he just tells him to go away and doesn't explain the penalty advantage being lost... but my guess is Barnes was awarding Leinster for the many infringements at the ruck in the previous phase by Clermont.


So, all in all, a tough, epic battle on both sides. Not champagne rugby, but not a far cry from international test rugby when the stakes are high. Both sides had their fair share of dodgy calls, and for me that cancelled each other out.

At the end of the day Leinster were the better team and managed to turn the screw after completing a fantastic move that lead to a try. That is all that separated these two great teams.

But I can see the Clermont players being grieved by certain decisions, and god help Leinster if they meet them again next year.


On an interesting side note, we gave the Clermont fans a standing ovation when they did their lap after the match, and the look on their faces was brilliant. They seemed genuinely surprised and amazed at the support from the away fans at the end of the match, so much so they turned and applauded us. That'll always stuck out in my memory, especially the look on Rougerie and Hines' faces.


Absolutely epic day, and an epic weekend. Bumped into the Skysports gang straight after the match back in the Connemara pub.. so that probably explains why they cut it so early!