Households must pay for water meters.

bluesteel

Biggins wrote: »

Its for water.
...O wait, we will pay for that!

Its for rubbish collection.
......O wait, we will already pay for that!

Its for your roads.
......O wait, we will already pay for that in car tax!

Its for your fire services
......O wait, we will pay for that in call out charges!

Its for your local library.
......O wait, we will already pay for that in yearly fees!


Its for...

Sorry ...fcuk if I know! :mad:

Have you ever lived abroad? In a well run country? Or are you still living with your parents? Most people with a career have lived abroad for a bit and seen how they do things. I paid over 1k sterling in London, on top of water charges.

If you think annual library fees, fire call out charges etc pay for the respective services then you are wilfully ignorant. I have been in favour of a broader tax base for years, but economic illiterates in Ireland have an obsession with property. Even Tony Soprano has to pay his property tax

lugha

bluesteel wrote: »

Have you ever lived abroad? In a well run country? Or are you still living with your parents? Most people with a career have lived abroad for a bit and seen how they do things. I paid over 1k sterling in London, on top of water charges.

If you think annual library fees, fire call out charges etc pay for the respective services then you are wilfully ignorant. I have been in favour of a broader tax base for years, but economic illiterates in Ireland have an obsession with property. Even Tony Soprano has to pay his property tax

What is particularly depressing is that you don’t have to go all hypothetical to highlight the possible downside of a narrow tax base, where exchequer receipts are boasted by say, a temporary property bubble and it suddenly collapses!

Alas, apart from “bid Phil can f*ck right off” few of the neigh sayers here have much in the way of concrete advise on how we should structure our tax base. Presumably all of our problems are down to corruption and greed and sure fundamentally, the tax structures are grand really!

dvpower

keithob wrote: »

baffles me why people are ok or accepting this charge.... like the household charge...

when is it going to end....

are people blind that this money is not going to be used to ''improve the water service'' its simply going to be used to keep the state afloat as are goverment were stupid and foolish enough to bailout banks on our behalf.

question has to be asked - is irish society a bunch of cowards afraid of their goverment?

We voted for this government a year ago in the full knowledge that they would implement water charges.

Biggins

bluesteel wrote: »

Have you ever lived abroad? In a well run country? Or are you still living with your parents?

:pac:

Your new to the forum so I'll let those questions pass politely in answers.. :pac:

Have you ever lived abroad?
Yes, France, England, USA, Germany, Japan, and others thru work also.

In a well run country?
Yes, very many.

Or are you still living with your parents?
:pac:
This one is just funny! :pac:

Bless ya, you made me smile this morning. :pac:

seamus

Biggins wrote: »

Or are you still living with your parents?
:pac:
This one is just funny! :pac:

Bless ya, you made me smile this morning. :pac:

Made me laugh too; Biggins has nearly come full circle, soon he'll back living with his kids because he can't look after himself

Biggins

Irish Examiner:

Oh Eamon, how power changed you...
By Shaun Connolly

How many U-turns does it take to make a hypocrite?

That is the awkward question tormenting Tánaiste Eamon Gilmore after a thundering leaflet from his Democratic Left days emerged denouncing those twin evils — water charges and property taxes.

"How Many Councillors Does It Take To Turn Off The Water Tax?" the 1994 missive demanded to know before helpfully providing the answer that it just took Outraged Eamon and 14 others to sink the tap tax.

And who could argue with Gilmore’s logic that "water charges are another tax on workers on top of PAYE, PRSI and levies".

Indeed, if you substitute Fine Gael for Fianna Fáil this denunciation from Mr Gilmore could easily have come from any of his United Left Alliance/Sinn Féin opponents in the current Dáil: "This year the Fianna Fáil/Labour government is demanding more tax from the PAYE taxpayer. They have imposed residential property tax and now they are making us pay for water."

Gilmore was clearly the Che Guevara of Dún Laoghaire/Rathdown council at the time and insisted the authority should put it up to the big man in the environment department and even risk being abolished for a point of principle.

"The PAYE taxpayer has already paid enough for local services and should not have to pay again," the leaflet rails as his face beams from it.

But how times change — and power changes you. Now Mr Gilmore is happy to lead a merged, and supposedly still socialist, DL/Labour party which sees nothing wrong with not only imposing water charges, but doing so on the back of bringing in a property tax which is so crudely unfair it comes in the form of a flat rate levy which sees the obscenely wealthy and the welfare dependent pay exactly the same rate.

Not quite the sort of equality long since departed St Eamon the Tax Terminator would have approved of.

Source: http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/oh-eamon-how-power-changed-you-190933.html#ixzz1sTPFrebp

StephenHendry

whats gets me is the charge is inequitable, if its based on pure usage then yes it is fair charge even if i don't relish the though of paying it. the idea of paying for meters , a standing charge as well as the houshold charge on top of this ? the government want us to be pleased that they now be 'creating' 2000 jobs. what will happen will be the collection of charges passed out to some private company

dvpower

StephenHendry wrote: »

whats gets me is the charge is inequitable, if its based on pure usage then yes it is fair charge even if i don't relish the though of paying it. the idea of paying for meters , a standing charge as well as the houshold charge on top of this ? the government want us to be pleased that they now be 'creating' 2000 jobs. what will happen will be the collection of charges passed out to some private company

Paying for the meters is akin to a connection fee - which is pretty normal for utilities.

bluesteel

Biggins wrote: »

:pac:

Your new to the forum so I'll let those questions pass politely in answers.. :pac:

Have you ever lived abroad?
Yes, France, England, USA, Germany, Japan, and others thru work also.

In a well run country?
Yes, very many.

Or are you still living with your parents?
:pac:
This one is just funny! :pac:

Bless ya, you made me smile this morning. :pac:

Yes, I have a job and a life so not as much time to spend here as you.

Thats nice you lived abroad. Great. Did you pick up any knowledge on your travels? Or did the well run cities where you lived have money trees?

Ever hear of US property taxes? France has water charges ya know! Clearly you think Ireland is different...

Ah, why bother, whingers gonna whinge. Let's hear your solution for the budget deficit, feel free to put it up on a spreadsheet for us

Biggins

bluesteel wrote: »

...Ah, why bother, whingers gonna whinge,

Your a lovely person.
Good luck with that narrow attitude in life.

P.S.
If you actually bothered your arse to read the thread, you would read what my personal objections in this issue are - and here is a hint, its NOT about paying for the water itself.
..But there ya go, I'm educated enough also to read previous posts before jumping in and posting something that might be off target!
Now if only newbies would do similar!

MadYaker

StephenHendry wrote: »

whats gets me is the charge is inequitable, if its based on pure usage then yes it is fair charge even if i don't relish the though of paying it. the idea of paying for meters , a standing charge as well as the houshold charge on top of this ? the government want us to be pleased that they now be 'creating' 2000 jobs. what will happen will be the collection of charges passed out to some private company

You are a bit misinformed. The standing charge is paying for the metres. There isn't going to be any flat 300 euro charge. You will be charged by the cubic metre for the water you use. The charges are not going to be passed to a private company a new semi state owned company called Irish Water is being set up and it will be run by Bord Gáis.

MadYaker

Biggins wrote: »

:pac:

Your new to the forum so I'll let those questions pass politely in answers.. :pac:

Have you ever lived abroad?
Yes, France, England, USA, Germany, Japan, and others thru work also.

In a well run country?
Yes, very many.

Or are you still living with your parents?
:pac:
This one is just funny! :pac:

Bless ya, you made me smile this morning. :pac:

I agree with most of what you have said but condescending replies like this don't do your argument any favors

ART6

dvpower wrote: »

We voted for this government a year ago in the full knowledge that they would implement water charges.

"We" didn't vote for them. Some of us did, but not enough for either FG or Labour to be able to form a government on their own. I don't believe that anyone voted for a FG/Labour coalition. They were never asked.

Anyway, if we accept that the electorate agreed to the idea of water charges, then we should also accept that they expected all the other things that were promised then. What we actually got was all of the promised benefits scrapped within weeks and all of the promised drains on our pockets retained and even increased.

MadYaker

ART6 wrote: »

"We" didn't vote for them. Some of us did, but not enough for either FG or Labour to be able to form a government on their own. I don't believe that anyone voted for a FG/Labour coalition. They were never asked.

Anyway, if we accept that the electorate agreed to the idea of water charges, then we should also accept that they expected all the other things that were promised then. What we actually got was all of the promised benefits scrapped within weeks and all of the promised drains on our pockets retained and even increased.

If you expected anything else you were a bit silly. They were making all these promises in the depth of a recession when we had lost our economic sovereignty. What exactly were people expecting? I take nothing said by politicians in a run up to elections seriously. They will say almost anything to get elected.

bluesteel

Biggins wrote: »

Your a lovely person.
Good luck with that narrow attitude in life.

P.S.
If you actually bothered your arse to read the thread, you would read what my personal objections in this issue are - and here is a hint, its NOT about paying for the water itself.
..But there ya go, I'm educated enough also to read previous posts before jumping in and posting something that might be off target!
Now if only newbies would do similar!

a bit rich coming from the guy who started 2 threads about what Michael Noonan had supposedly said "OMG Is Noonan for reals?" without listening to the interview itself. And then had his hole handed to him in the debate that followed!

Don't forget to thank your nearest FG and Labour representative and supporter for all this generous robbing of your money!

Robbing? Yeah, real lucid points you are making there. You consider it theft to pay for water like every other modern country? Frankly I've better things to do than wade through the thread or your Opus Magnus. Sincerest apologies if you have said something interesting in the 20 thousand post you have to your credit

dvpower

ART6 wrote: »

"We" didn't vote for them. Some of us did, but not enough for either FG or Labour to be able to form a government on their own.

Yeah - that's how it works. The people who lost the election must live with the decision of the people. There will be another chance in 4 years time.

ART6 wrote: »

I don't believe that anyone voted for a FG/Labour coalition. They were never asked.

You must have been asleep during the election campaign. Everyone who voted for FG or LAB knew they were voting for a FG/LAB coalition government.
No other outcome was realistic.

ART6 wrote: »

Anyway, if we accept that the electorate agreed to the idea of water charges, then we should also accept that they expected all the other things that were promised then. What we actually got was all of the promised benefits scrapped within weeks and all of the promised drains on our pockets retained and even increased.

I don't accept that everyone who voted for the current government are in favour of water charges, but that they knew that water charges were inevitable and it wasn't such a red line issue that would cause them to vote for some other party who was against water charges.

Biggins

bluesteel wrote: »

a bit rich coming from the guy who started 2 threads about what Michael Noonan had supposedly said "OMG Is Noonan for reals?" without listening to the interview itself. And then had his hole handed to him in the debate that followed!

I posed a question in that thread and the matter was clearly addressed by informed posters.
I too was educated - I am hopefully the better for it.
Jeasus - sorry if that gets up your goat but hey it seems to have serve your purpose in trying to deflect that you didn't bother your arse to actually read the previous posts here before stupidly coming out swinging.
Well done you!

bluesteel wrote: »

Robbing? Yeah, real lucid points you are making there. You consider it theft to pay for water like every other modern country?

Here we go again...
Actually read the part that I have concern over will you for gods sake?
Kop yourself on - drop your high and mighty arrogant attitude and educate yourself!

bluesteel wrote: »

Frankly I've better things to do than wade through the thread or your Opus Magnus. Sincerest apologies if you have said something interesting in the 20 thousand post you have to your credit

LOL
Your character speaks for itself.
I don't need to retort further to the just above and insult in kind.

Ghost Buster

We should give the water supply contract to Concern. They can supply water to an entire village for 2 Euro

StephenHendry

dvpower wrote: »

Yeah - that's how it works. The people who lost the election must live with the decision of the people. There will be another chance in 4 years time.


You must have been asleep during the election campaign. Everyone who voted for FG or LAB knew they were voting for a FG/LAB coalition government.
No other outcome was realistic.


I don't accept that everyone who voted for the current government are in favour of water charges, but that they knew that water charges were inevitable and it wasn't such a red line issue that would cause them to vote for some other party who was against water charges.

the next election where people will remember the mess surrounding the household charge and not to mention what the water charges will be like. its stuff like that will influence people against FG/Lab. however the alternative next time round may not be attractive to a lot of people i.e. a mish mash of independents, SF FF etc.

The majority of people voted for FG/Lab in the hope that they would deal with the bad stuff a lot better, be more upfront of the difficult period ahead for the voters, both of which FG/Lab have failed miserably so far. I think Labour will hit a lot harder , as in usually the case with the smaller party in government , like the PDs and the greens

Slozer

keithob wrote: »

baffles me why people are ok or accepting this charge

Believe it or not, some people just like taking it up the @ss!

Biggins

Slozer wrote: »

Believe it or not, some people just like taking it up the @ss!

No scchhiiittt!

bananarama22

Ghost Buster wrote: »

We should give the water supply contract to Concern. They can supply water to an entire village for 2 Euro

Well said Why don't we just disconect from the mains and get a well out our back garden .. and tell them what to do with their water charge Has anyone or any regulatory body actually questioned the legality of the household and water charge? I mean, the household charge does cover ammenities such as fire service, road sweeping etc. But some houses are literally in the back arse of no where and recieve no such services anyway. I'd bet money that certain roads in Ireland have never even seen a road sweeper.

Bishop_Donal

I presume that the ESRI will soon come out with more of their usual bull**** that only people who are already contributing to society should be levied with water charges. Naturally it makes sense to link it to income again, so that people in the black economy can play with their hoses as much as they want (but it's not income tax...).

MadYaker

Ghost Buster wrote: »

We should give the water supply contract to Concern. They can supply water to an entire village for 2 Euro

Post of the day right there hahahaha

MadYaker

bananarama22 wrote: »

Well said Why don't we just disconect from the mains and get a well out our back garden .. and tell them what to do with their water charge Has anyone or any regulatory body actually questioned the legality of the household and water charge? I mean, the household charge does cover ammenities such as fire service, road sweeping etc. But some houses are literally in the back arse of no where and recieve no such services anyway. I'd bet money that certain roads in Ireland have never even seen a road sweeper.

Yes.. the gov are trying to introduce an illegal charge and hoping nobody will notice but you're wide to their antics!

Not everybody has a well in their back garden and not all wells are suitable for domestic use. The money from the household charge goes into the budget of your city/county council. Everybody benefits in some way from the services provided by the councils.

Ghost Buster

Ghost Buster wrote: »

We should give the water supply contract to Concern. They can supply water to an entire village for 2 Euro

My wife remembers the days before (piped) water, the rain used to collect in a tank that was bucketed into the house when needed.

She still has bad memories of the slugs and things they found in the bucket!:eek:

PS: the group scheme brought piped water in the early 1970s

Fiskar

Deleted User wrote: »

My wife remembers the days before (piped) water, the rain used to collect in a tank that was bucketed into the house when needed.

She still has bad memories of the slugs and things they found in the bucket!:eek:

PS: the group scheme brought piped water in the early 1970s

Typical, women use a bucket to collect water, men use their brains and pipe it!

Most women remember lots of the bad things but not how or where we got to where we are now in terms of infrastructure. It takes planning, co-ordination and alot of team effort to make the changes. I didn't mention money!

Stiffler2

They can try to install a water metre on my property but it ain't happening.
If they do install one when I'm not there I'll sue for trespassing.

Said water metre will also not work after I fiddle with it.
I'm also not nor ever will pay the household charge, they'll have to throw me in jail.

In fact Bertie and Seanie can pay these charges for me.

ART6

Stiffler2 wrote: »

They can try to install a water metre on my property but it ain't happening.
If they do install one when I'm not there I'll sue for trespassing.

No doubt they will pass a law that gives the new water company unrestricted access to you property, such that you will be committing an offence if you try to resist them.

Said water metre will also not work after I fiddle with it.
I'm also not nor ever will pay the household charge, they'll have to throw me in jail.

They probably will send you to jail, especially if you "fiddle" with the meter. In that case your sentence will probably be longer that someone who has committed armed robbery or murder, but has not avoided paying his taxes.

In fact Bertie and Seanie can pay these charges for me.

Come on now! These people are not responsible for the position in which you find yourself:rolleyes:

Stiffler2

Stiffler2 wrote: »

They can try to install a water metre on my property but it ain't happening.

The spell Czechs will be giving out yards for that one!

Anyway, they'll install the meter outside the property boundary on council land, i.e. the public road.