Olympic Qualifiers last chance saloon!

Jayob10

walshb wrote: »

"Negotiations are understood to be continuing in the case of light-heavyweight Joe Ward, who was controversially beaten two days ago.

There are rumours that Ward could receive a wildcard as the Irish Amateur Boxing Association and the Olympic Council of Ireland continue to press for a reprieve."


Although I would love to see Ward get thru, what is the controversy? Was it a blatant robbery? I mean, it's well known that if a fight is in anyway close, either man can get it, and a home fighter usually does. The officials/scores have been checked out and all is above board, is it not?

It was a blatant robbery by all accounts

walshb

Jayob10 wrote: »

It was a blatant robbery by all accounts

Ireland's accounts?

Like I said, was there an investigation, and if so, were the scores and officials cleared of any wrongdoing? If they were, then really what is the controversy? Home town fighter gets the nod in close fight. Hardly a controversy.

Not saying Joe didn't deserve the win, as I didn't see the bout, nor am I saying that the fight was close, but really, are the Irish team clutching at straws here? I really would hate to think that Joe dominated clearly yet was not given the nod.

But, if one was to believe all the hype and talk of robbery with Egan in Beijing one would believe it was a robbery and clear win for Egan. It was far from it. That fight was a close fight. Yet we made out that Kenneth was blatantly robbed.

Katie Taylor has been the victim of some 'dubious' decisions too that never got overturned.

Jess16

Being on home turf or not shouldn't even come into it -only one boxer can score more points than the other and that has to be based on what happened in the ring only.

Another great win for Nolan, 17-13! One more fight and it's London 2012!

Jayob10

walshb wrote: »

Ireland's accounts?

Like I said, was there an investigation, and if so, were the scores and officials cleared of any wrongdoing? If they were, then really what is the controversy? Home town fighter gets the nod in close fight. Hardly a controversy.

Not saying Joe didn't deserve the win, as I didn't see the bout, nor am I saying that the fight was close, but really, are the Irish team clutching at straws here? I really would hate to think that Joe dominated clearly yet was not given the nod.

But, if one was to believe all the hype and talk of robbery with Egan in Beijing one would believe it was a robbery and clear win for Egan. It was far from it. That fight was a close fight. Yet we made out that Kenneth was blatantly robbed.

Katie Taylor has been the victim of some dubious decisions too that never got overturned.

Ward dominated 2 of the rounds against the Turk, i've heard that from a very respected source, someone who would accept defeat like a man.

The first round was close, but the final round especially was noticeably one sided in which Ward did all of the scoring, apparently it wasn't close at all. The crux of the controversy was that the Turk apparently tabled 2 scores upon Joe landing 2 clean shots, which shows something is up. This is coming from people who trawled the footage over and over.

You would seriously question how any appeal is going to be handled when its a hometown fighter in Turkey.

This would not be the first robbery that wasn't over turned in fairness, you make it seem like any blatant robbery of a decision is always rectified, its not.

Egan's fight in the Olympic final was close, but in fairness to Ward apparently he dominated the majority of this fight, the turk only need to jab his gloves to score.

the_real_lamp

walshb wrote: »

Ireland's accounts?

Like I said, was there an investigation, and if so, were the scores and officials cleared of any wrongdoing? If they were, then really what is the controversy? Home town fighter gets the nod in close fight. Hardly a controversy.

Not saying Joe didn't deserve the win, as I didn't see the bout, nor am I saying that the fight was close, but really, are the Irish team clutching at straws here? I really would hate to think that Joe dominated clearly yet was not given the nod.

But, if one was to believe all the hype and talk of robbery with Egan in Beijing one would believe it was a robbery and clear win for Egan. It was far from it. That fight was a close fight. Yet we made out that Kenneth was blatantly robbed.

Katie Taylor has been the victim of some 'dubious' decisions too that never got overturned.

John Dennen, boxing writer from UK, and Kennedy Katende, the Swede who Joe Ward beat in the first round, both said that Joe won the fight in their eyes.

Great win from Adam Nolan, juts one win away!

forzawexford10

http://www.rte.ie/sport/boxing/2012/0417/317365-iaba-still-pursuing-ward-appeals/

The part in bold below from Billy Walsh who seems an honest guy paints it as pretty clear daylight robbery. So in the irish corner they think instead of losing 18-15, Joe should have won 23-16, a ten point swing.

Well done to Adam Nolan 1 more win and the wexfordman will be representing Ireland in the Olympics in London

By Brendan Cole
The Irish Amateur Boxing Association is continuing its efforts to have Joe Ward’s defeat in the final Olympic qualifying tournament overturned.
Light-heavyweight Ward was beaten 18-15 by hometown fighter Bahran Muzaffer in Trabzon, Turkey, on Monday night in their last-16 contest.


The IABA lodged a protest immediately after the bout but it was turned down by the Appeals Jury on the basis that no rules had been broken.
Ward lost the third by two points on the judges’ scorecards and Ireland based the original appeal on that round.
Speaking on Morning Ireland, Ireland head coach Billy Walsh said: "We had Joe scoring 12 clean hits and his opponent scoring four (in the third). The judging gave it that Joe scored four hits and his opponent scored six in that last round. So it was a three to one turnaround to what actually happened."


The Irish camp is still unhappy with the result, believing it was clear to everyone present that Ward should have been given the verdict.
Walsh added: "To everybody around the place, it was pretty evident that Joe had won the contest and he was one of our most promising prospects and actually do well at the Olympics."
There is still some hope that Ward's Olympic dream can be kept alive. Appeals are being pursued by the IABA in conjunction with the Olympic Council of Ireland.
Walsh said: "There are a couple of avenues. We are pursuing those at the moment. I can’t really say what they are. We are working closely with Pat Hickey and the Olympic Council and some other people around the boxing association and hopefully they can bear fruit.
"But as of now he is out of the Olympic games."
There has been speculation in newspapers that Ward will enter the professional ranks in the wake of this defeat but Walsh was quick to emphasise that the focus remains on the events of last night.
Asked about the rumours, he said: "Absolutely not at this point in time. We are trying to decipher what happened yesterday and there have been no thoughts of professional boxing."
Ward’s youth also makes him an ideal candidate to box at the next Olympics in Rio De Janeiro in 2016.
Walsh added: "Joe Ward is a very young man and by the time the next Olympics comes around he will only be 22 years of age. The thoughts are with amateur at the moment and it will be our job to try to maintain and hold on to him for as long as we can."

walshb

Jayob10 wrote: »

This would not be the first robbery that wasn't over turned in fairness, you make it seem like any blatant robbery of a decision is always rectified, its not.

Egan's fight in the Olympic final was close, but in fairness to Ward apparently he dominated the majority of this fight, the turk only need to jab his gloves to score.

No, I didn't mean to imply that a robbery is overturned. In fact, quite the contrary. It's very difficult to change decisions in most sports. Anyway, yes, seems Joe won the bout, and clear to many.

Lomachenko had a decision overturned recently that involved a competeive fight. One I though he had won, but I did not believe an overturn was correct.

This 23-16, again, I mean, a point or two the other way and it's a close fight. And, it's well known that in these tournaments that in these bouts the hometown fighter will usually get the nod.

It's not an exact science is this computer scoriong. I have seen many times where one man scores a punch or two and the score register with the opponent. It's crazy. But, it applies to both men. Joe was unlucky here.

As for Billy's scoring of rd 3, I would love to hear the turks version of rd 3. I would love to see the fight.

It seems that the appeal is based really on this last rd, and its scoring.

Dodge

walshb wrote: »

Ireland's accounts?

BBC guy there said that he counted 4 punches thrown by Turk in final round, yet he scored 6 points

Like I said, was there an investigation, and if so, were the scores and officials cleared of any wrongdoing? If they were, then really what is the controversy? Home town fighter gets the nod in close fight. Hardly a controversy.

wasn't an investigation. They said that as no rules were broken, the appeal was denied.

can't see any turn round happening but I'd be disgusted if they didn't try every route to get him to the games

Dan man

Dodge wrote: »

BBC guy there said that he counted 4 punches thrown by Turk in final round, yet he scored 6 points


wasn't an investigation. They said that as no rules were broken, the appeal was denied.

can't see any turn round happening but I'd be disgusted if they didn't try every route to get him to the games

Agreed...there is one avenue in which he could be given the wildcard and that is if the Tripartite Commission Invitation place is void, and by my reckoning, under the rules the Tripartite Commission will not be able to award the invitation for the light-heavyweight meaning that the wildcard will be re-distributed by the International Federation (AIBA). Their rules state that the highest ranked non-qualifier from the worlds will be awarded the wildcard and this is the interesting point of note for Joe Ward and the IABA.

walshb

Dodge wrote: »

BBC guy there said that he counted 4 punches thrown by Turk in final round, yet he scored 6 points


wasn't an investigation. They said that as no rules were broken, the appeal was denied.

can't see any turn round happening but I'd be disgusted if they didn't try every route to get him to the games

Ok, so no investigation needed. Nothing was done incorrectly according to the AIBA. Well then, I don't see how this can be anything other than a controversial decision in Ireland's eyes. It's boxing, and nothing new either.

walshb

Dodge wrote: »

BBC guy there said that he counted 4 punches thrown by Turk in final round, yet he scored 6 points

As your username suggests, that is dodge. Need to see this scrap.

I wonder if the Turk received warnings for not boxing? I mean, 4 punches in three mins could see a DQ.

Not saying BBC man is fibbing, but that is some crazy sh1t!

duagre

^I estimate that is an exaggeration

Dodge

duagre wrote: »

^I estimate that is an exaggeration

yep, could well be. Could be that he meant 'clean shots' instead of punches. The point was that pretty much every report I've seen states that Ward was very unlucky with scoring

As walshb has said it happens a fair bit. But again, that doesn't mean Ireland shouldn't seek every route into the game for ward. If they're unsuccessful, then so be it

walshb

Dodge wrote: »

As walshb has said it happens a fair bit. But again, that doesn't mean Ireland shouldn't seek every route into the game for ward. If they're unsuccessful, then so be it

I agree, may as well go down fighting. Nothing to lose.

Dodge

Paddy Barnes wins and qualifies for the Olympics!

17:9

efb

Guys for any of you in twitter land @pmcdisc ;is the guy to follow- from the sports council- does live updates after each round and other qualifier news

Jayob10

Dodge wrote: »

Paddy Barnes wins and qualifies for the Olympics!

17:9

brilliant news! well done paddy

duagre

Good stuff from Paddy. He's a great fighter who has had a disappointing year.
All that was important here was that he got through. I have no doubt everything will fall into place and he will be in top form for the games.

ivers57

Great stuff from Barnes.
He is due to face a Turk in the semi, meaningless I guess as the main goal has been achieved. Given what happened to Ward might be a good PR stunt to just give a W/O.
Although not good enough to secure 1 spot at the World Champs the Turks have 9 of their 10 boxers still in the competition here!!!!

duagre

McCarthy well ahead after 2.

efb

@pmcdisc: McCarthy wins 16 to 7, great win for the young Belfast fighter.

efb

Interesting:
@johndennen: The Russian middleweight was a point up against Turkey going in the third but gets a public warning and loses on countback.

duagre

Great win indeed. He has done terrifically well.

yore

efb wrote: »

Interesting:
@johndennen: The Russian middleweight was a point up against Turkey going in the third but gets a public warning and loses on countback.

The ref gives the warning, but he doesn't score the fight. I don't think the judges have to agree eith him. (Maybe it's different with computer scoring!... I can't remember that rule but there are a couple of slight nuances between the two systems; other than obviously the scoring method. But if they don't agree, they probably just don't press the warning button ??).
At least on the paper, if the ref gives a warning, you can ignore it and just mark down that you ignore it.

A judge can also give a judges warning on his own scoring paper without the ref giving it, again I'm not sure how that would work for the computers though. I think that might be different there.

yore

yore wrote: »

The ref gives the warning, but he doesn't score the fight. I don't think the judges have to agree eith him. (Maybe it's different with computer scoring!... I can't remember that rule but there are a couple of slight nuances between the two systems; other than obviously the scoring method. But if they don't agree, they probably just don't press the warning button ??).
At least on the paper, if the ref gives a warning, you can ignore it and just mark down that you ignore it.

A judge can also give a judges warning on his own scoring paper without the ref giving it, again I'm not sure how that would work for the computers though. I think that might be different there.

Actually, I think I remember that there are no "judges warnings" for the computers! Google might tell me

efb

There are- but your on your own unless the others agree!

Always pushed the warning button when the ref signalled

duagre

Tommy is against Vladimir Cheles of Moldava next. He beat the Turkish HW 21-13

efb

Actually can remember one occision when I didn't- and was bollocked out of it for doing so

yore

efb wrote: »

There are- but your on your own unless the others agree!

Always pushed the warning button when the ref signalled

I only used the machines a handful of times myself and can't remember. But on paper I think it was "W" for warning, "X" for warning but judge doesn't agree and "J" if the ref didn't give one, but you thought he should have!

Maybe there is no discretion with the computer. Probably not! Actually, come to think of it, I don't know how it would be implemented practically. Ignore my previous comment!

efb

There is both a scoring button and a warning button for red and blue.

Pressing the warning button when the ref indicates is the same as W
Not pressing the warning button when the ref indicates is the same as X
Pressing the warning button when the ref doesn't indicate is the same as J