SUPPORT for victims of sexual assault thread - mod warning post #1

Contessa Raven

I posted my story anonymously earlier in the thread. One thing I noticed after I was assaulted - and I still do to a certain extent - is that I couldn't feel the same way about things as I did before. The two years directly after, I was constantly angry at myself, my parents, my friends, the man who did it, the world. I just couldn't feel anything else. As I've slowly moved on, I feel numb a lot of the time. I do feel happy and sad etc, but it's different. It's a sort of numb version of how I used to feel. I find it difficult to get genuinely excited about things. Half the time I make out that I'm more excited than I actually am just so I seem normal.
The only emotion I am able to feel to it's full extent is anger. I know it's not healthy but I am so quick to temper it's scary. I probably should seek help but I am afraid of what it will dredge back up in me.

It's been 9 years and I am slowly getting over it but I often wonder if I ever will feel normal again. The people around me who know are very understanding but I don't think they can fully understand just how numb I am. Sometimes I can come across very cold and it's a result of what happened to me.

It's funny because before I saw this thread, I hadn't thought about it in a long time and I thought I was over it. But on reflection after reading some of the stories here, I realise that it still affects me to this day and probably always will. It certainly has made me reflect on my emotions and how they've been damaged. That's a word I don't use lightly either. I am very aware of how different I am to the person I was back before the attack.

lazygal

I'm bowled over (in a good and bad way) by the response to this thread. I hope it might inspire others to have a chat with their friends, I think the problem with sex is that it can be so hidden, so when sexual assault is being raised the temptation is to just ignore it as its not the easier thing to discuss.

careymary

I am just after making myself read all the posts on this thread because like another poster said I have been avoiding this thread since I first saw it.

I too have been raped,

When I was 11 I was raped by a friend of my fathers, and each week afterwards he would stand chatting to my father outside mass and it was my job to get the car key from dad so I always had to go over to them, and he would make a comment on how pretty I was, did I have a bf, and that I would break hearts all the time licking his lips at me. I tried to kill myself by overdosing on painkillers a couple of months after and was very disappointed when I failed.
So I took control, in my 11 year old head I decided to gain weight so no man would ever want to do that to me again, and I did so.

All through my teens and early twenties, I maintained my weight and grew more and more fearful of men

One day I began to take control of my life and started to lose weight

When I was 27 I entered a relationship, only my second ever, and after a few weeks he violently raped me in by bed, it crushed me.

I feel like I regressed then and I went and gained weight again to protect myself. I am in therapy and I logically know neither rape was my fault, but I don't feel it.

Knowing something and believing or feeling it are such different things for me, I was going to post unreg for this but I am determined to post it, it shouldn't be my shame, the shame should belong to them

neuro-praxis

careymary wrote: »

I was going to post unreg for this but I am determined to post it, it shouldn't be my shame, the shame should belong to them

Damn right

nkay1985

Fcuking hell.

That's all I've kept thinking as I've go through this thread and seeing that more and more of you have a story to tell. It's genuinely heartbreaking that any of you had to endure these experiences, never mind so many.

I just want to say that it's incredibly brave of you all to share your experiences and your thoughts and feelings. It serves many purposes, the most important of which, IMO, is to let everyone who has had such a traumatic event visited upon them that there are so many others out there; so many that may feel the exact same, so many that may have gone through what they're feeling and come out the other side, just that they're not alone. I can't for one minute imagine how it is but a lot of you have said how alone and isolated you feel/felt. Maybe this thread has helped to assuage that feeling in someone.

This is Boards at its best and you're all amazing.

LegacyUser

Mine is a toughie.

I was 7/8. The other person was 2/3 years older than me. But, she was also female.

I find it very hard to talk about because once I mention that it was another girl they say 'ah it wasn't rape'. I don't believe myself it was rape, because there was no penatrive sex etc but what she did to me wasn't right.

What made this even worse was that at the time I didn't know how wrong it was and I did it to another girl. I feel so ashamed even writing that.

It wasn't until I reached my late teens that I realised it shouldn't have happened. I think I blocked it out until then.

ladypip

wasitnotsure wrote: »

Mine is a toughie.

I was 7/8. The other person was 2/3 years older than me. But, she was also female.

I find it very hard to talk about because once I mention that it was another girl they say 'ah it wasn't rape'. I don't believe myself it was rape, because there was no penatrive sex etc but what she did to me wasn't right.

What made this even worse was that at the time I didn't know how wrong it was and I did it to another girl. I feel so ashamed even writing that.

It wasn't until I reached my late teens that I realised it shouldn't have happened. I think I blocked it out until then.

Maybe the girl who did it to you didn't know it was wrong either? She was probably a victim herself. I can see why at 7/8 that would have confused you about sexuality and right and wrong with regards your actions later to the other girl. Either way it was a horrible thing to happen to you at that age and I hope you can put it behind you.

midlandsmissus

Ched Evans -good he was convicted. Sad - the comments on twitter, some are horrendous.

Wompa1

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Ched Evans -good he was convicted. Sad - the comments on twitter, some are horrendous.

Got to respect the verdict but at the same time, I don't know anybody in Ireland that has a one night stand without the excuse of alcohol to play it off with the next day. Doesn't make it less serious but I'd imagine it means sex should be avoided on a night out with any alcohol because it could come down to your words against the other parties and then it's 50/50

Millicent

Wompa1 wrote: »

Got to respect the verdict but at the same time, I don't know anybody in Ireland that has a one night stand without the excuse of alcohol to play it off with the next day. Doesn't make it less serious but I'd imagine it means sex should be avoided on a night out with any alcohol because it could come down to your words against the other parties and then it's 50/50

Given the evidence about the girl's state at the time (fell over in a kebab shop, noticeably stumbling and slurring), it wasn't a 50/50 case. Sadly though, if there hadn't been CCTV footage and a witness to the girl's lack of sobriety, this case could have gone a different way. Delighted he got 5 years. I wonder why his teammate got off based on the same evidence though.

Wompa1

Millicent wrote: »

Given the evidence about the girl's state at the time (fell over in a kebab shop, noticeably stumbling and slurring), it wasn't a 50/50 case. Sadly though, if there hadn't been CCTV footage and a witness to the girl's lack of sobriety, this case could have gone a different way. Delighted he got 5 years. I wonder why his teammate got off based on the same evidence though.

There was CCTV of her slurring her words?..I've seen lots of sober women fall over wearing heels on tiles. I don't know much about what evidence was presented. I'm guessing somebody who worked in the kebab shop testified? Somebody sober that night?

rainbow kirby

Wompa1 wrote: »

There was CCTV of her slurring her words?..I've seen lots of sober women fall over wearing heels on tiles. I don't know much about what evidence was presented. I'm guessing somebody who worked in the kebab shop testified? Somebody sober that night?

If you want to argue the details of the case, please do it elsewhere - this is a support thread.

snafuk35

Sharrow wrote: »

I think most women will have been in the circumstance were they didn't want to have sex but felt they could not refuse or didn't feel safe to say no. I know it happened to me when I was young,

But how is a guy to know you felt you could not refuse or didn't fell safe to say no? If you didn't give him any indication you didn't want to have sex that's not his fault.

Giselle

snafuk35 wrote: »

But how is a guy to know you felt you could not refuse or didn't fell safe to say no? If you didn't give him any indication you didn't want to have sex that's not his fault.

The purpose of this thread is not to explain to you how some women are so afraid of violent consequences that they submit silently believing it to be the most prudent choice.

Its not to explain that perhaps the unspoken threat, the silent or menacing intimidation that some may feel, renders them unable to speak at all.

Its also not to inform you that the absence of a screamed NO, does not equal a whispered YES.

Its certainly not to allow the insulting misandrist implication that men - the vast majority of men - can't tell the difference between unwilling and willing participation.

rainbow kirby

snafuk35 wrote: »

But how is a guy to know you felt you could not refuse or didn't fell safe to say no? If you didn't give him any indication you didn't want to have sex that's not his fault.

Did you not read the part where it was stated that this is a support thread? If not, do have a read and think about it before posting again on this thread.

Fromthetrees

This thread is very sad. I'm sorry but I have never really given the subject much thought. I can only tell of my experiences as a male which might be a bit reversed to where most people are coming from on here.

My male friend was technically sexually assaulted but I never once thought he was until I read this thread, we (the lads) were back in a house one night after town, two girls we didn't know came back, long story short one of the girls went upstairs to where one of my buddies was with the other girl and stuck her friends hand down my friends pants, opened it for her as well, she came down and said 'my friend needed a little help', one of my other friends went up to them soon after and she was 'doing stuff' to him while he was totally passed out on the floor, we just put our friend to bed and the night continued as it was. (To be clear, I've been friends with this guy for 7 years and he would never go for a girl like that even he had been barely conscious). We had a laugh about it the next day and I'm 99% sure my friend has never thought anything bad about it. A few days later me and my friend saw these two girls by pure coincidence in the shop, they looked at him, whispered to each other and started roaring laughing. I thought nothing of it really at the time and it's only after reading this thread and seeing that if the reverse had happened and we were laughing in the shop at them over what happened it would have been downright evil.

This isn't my belief technically but from looking back it appears that a woman sexually assaulting a man simply isn't the same, that's certainly the way I felt at that time, it simply didn't feel like a big deal to me, my friend or anyone. To be clear I technically believe sexual assault is sexual assault regardless of what gender the two people are and is as serious a crime as you can get.

If my post is not suitable for this thread just delete it, I just wanted to contribute the only thing I know about the subject.

LegacyUser

At age 8, a teenage friend of my violent brother attempted to forcibly rape me.
At 11 and beyond, my mothers boss exposed himself and made indecent proposals for a few years.
At 18, my then-to-be FIL decided I was… fair game.
At 20, some drunken frat boys grabbed me, displayed themselves and made vulgar threats.

I am fortunate to’ve escaped rape, but emotional damage was done… Like many, the assailants shamed, blamed and threatened me. After the first incident, I went into seclusion for 9 painful years at an impressionable age. I can’t build a wall high enough to make the world safe, so I’ve become adept at running… from everyone and everything. And I can never go home again...

When youths are sexually assaulted, I wonder if there’s much hope of learning “normalcy” regarding intimacy (of any kind). Any sense of security is replaced with inherent vulnerability. The long term affects seem to touch every aspect of life, on a hidden level… from unknowingly sabotaging relationships, and distrusting authority figures, to cringing at simple interactions with those that have… male parts.

hondasam

A.ChildsPain wrote: »

At age 8, a teenage friend of my violent brother attempted to forcibly rape me.
At 11 and beyond, my mothers boss exposed himself and made indecent proposals for a few years.
At 18, my then-to-be FIL decided I was… fair game.
At 20, some drunken frat boys grabbed me, displayed themselves and made vulgar threats.

I am fortunate to’ve escaped rape, but emotional damage was done… Like many, the assailants shamed, blamed and threatened me. After the first incident, I went into seclusion for 9 painful years at an impressionable age. I can’t build a wall high enough to make the world safe, so I’ve become adept at running… from everyone and everything. And I can never go home again...

When youths are sexually assaulted, I wonder if there’s much hope of learning “normalcy” regarding intimacy (of any kind). Any sense of security is replaced with inherent vulnerability. The long term affects seem to touch every aspect of life, on a hidden level… from unknowingly sabotaging relationships, and distrusting authority figures, to cringing at simple interactions with those that have… male parts.

This is too much to happen to one person and I hope you have had counselling to help you along the way. It's natural you will be apprehensive of men anyone that has gone through what you have would be the same.
There are honest caring men in the world and I hope you meet one of those men some day.:)

Neyite

Fromthetrees wrote: »

This thread is very sad. I'm sorry but I have never really given the subject much thought. I can only tell of my experiences as a male which might be a bit reversed to where most people are coming from on here.

My male friend was technically sexually assaulted but I never once thought he was until I read this thread, we (the lads) were back in a house one night after town, two girls we didn't know came back, long story short one of the girls went upstairs to where one of my buddies was with the other girl and stuck her friends hand down my friends pants, opened it for her as well, she came down and said 'my friend needed a little help', one of my other friends went up to them soon after and she was 'doing stuff' to him while he was totally passed out on the floor, we just put our friend to bed and the night continued as it was. (To be clear, I've been friends with this guy for 7 years and he would never go for a girl like that even he had been barely conscious). We had a laugh about it the next day and I'm 99% sure my friend has never thought anything bad about it. A few days later me and my friend saw these two girls by pure coincidence in the shop, they looked at him, whispered to each other and started roaring laughing. I thought nothing of it really at the time and it's only after reading this thread and seeing that if the reverse had happened and we were laughing in the shop at them over what happened it would have been downright evil.

This isn't my belief technically but from looking back it appears that a woman sexually assaulting a man simply isn't the same, that's certainly the way I felt at that time, it simply didn't feel like a big deal to me, my friend or anyone. To be clear I technically believe sexual assault is sexual assault regardless of what gender the two people are and is as serious a crime as you can get.

If my post is not suitable for this thread just delete it, I just wanted to contribute the only thing I know about the subject.

I think your friends experience very much fits in with the theme of the thread - its challenging the stereotype that sexual assault or rape happens with force, in a dark alleyway, by a stranger. Its people we know that does this, people who at most, would admit that they were a bit pushy, but "once she got into it..." I doubt that any perpertrator on this thread would consider that what they did makes them a rapist.

What happend your friend is what many on here have experienced, in the guise of "only a bit of craic" or "well, he shouldnt have gotten so drunk then" or "well he was flirting with everything with a pulse at that party" or "why did he go upstairs with her friend if he wasnt up for it"

Your friend was sexually assaulted. And then further intimidated by the perpetrators afterwards. That you didnt immediatly recognise it as sexual assault is because it didnt fit in with the common stereotype - ie. the victim saying "no" or struggling.

The more common reaction to a sexual assault is to freeze, to go elsewhere in your head because your mind cannot comprehend what is happening. Its only afterwards that you say "WTF just happened, I didnt want that" then you are guilt-ridden because you didnt fight, shout or were too drunk. Also, its likely that if your friend had fought back, the two women involved would have gone all "oooh, he's a man and he hit a girl- he ASSAULTED me!!!" and the perception would be that he was a violent thug who hit a slip of a girl.

You say that a woman assaulting a man isnt percieved as being the same-I think you are right there, but there shouldnt be a difference in that perception. It shouldnt be laughed off by him or his friends. Those two women shouldnt have gotten away with what they did. The gardai should take male assault as seriously as female assault.

And I think that this thread, if it has made one man re-evaluate what constitutes sexual assault, and maybe explore this issue with other men then its doing something good.

midlandsmissus

hondasam wrote: »

This is too much to happen to one person and I hope you have had counselling to help you along the way. It's natural you will be apprehensive of men anyone that has gone through what you have would be the same.
There are honest caring men in the world and I hope you meet one of those men some day.:)

I am also scared of men.

I just feel so sad, at the injustice. I think about it all the time, whereas he probably doesn't give it a second's thought.

I just feel like this huge thing happened to me and I never got justice for it. i feel so off kilter.

eviltwin

midlandsmissus wrote: »

I am also scared of men.

I just feel so sad, at the injustice. I think about it all the time, whereas he probably doesn't give it a second's thought.

I just feel like this huge thing happened to me and I never got justice for it. i feel so off kilter.

I think posting your story was a really brave thing to do. You are a hero in my eyes, you really are xx

hondasam

midlandsmissus wrote: »

I am also scared of men.

I just feel so sad, at the injustice. I think about it all the time, whereas he probably doesn't give it a second's thought.

I just feel like this huge thing happened to me and I never got justice for it. i feel so off kilter.

I'm sorry for what happened to you.:)
I would imagine you will be scared of men for some time, are you getting counselling?
Have you thought about talking to him about what happened to see what he does think?

IrishEyes19

Sharrow wrote: »

I think most women will have been in the circumstance were they didn't want to have sex but felt they could not refuse or didn't feel safe to say no. I know it happened to me when I was young,

Its either rape or not. I might be wrong here, but there's being forced to have sex against your will, where you are literarly unable to stop someone either physically or mentally - that is rape. and then theres having sex with someone when you know deep down your not fully into it, or dont really want to - thats a choice and not rape in my opinion.

the reason I make this distinction is because rape is terrible and I cant imagine how awful it must be for a victim, but a false accusation is damaging too for someone wrongly accused. So, you need to be very clear about what is rape and what is not.

snafuk35

Giselle wrote: »

The purpose of this thread is not to explain to you how some women are so afraid of violent consequences that they submit silently believing it to be the most prudent choice.

Its not to explain that perhaps the unspoken threat, the silent or menacing intimidation that some may feel, renders them unable to speak at all.

Its also not to inform you that the absence of a screamed NO, does not equal a whispered YES.

Its certainly not to allow the insulting misandrist implication that men - the vast majority of men - can't tell the difference between unwilling and willing participation.

So let me get this straight.
I have a girl back at my place and we are kissing and I put my hands on her breasts and her bum, I start kissing her neck, start undressing her and we end up having sex and she doesn't resist or say no or push my hands away or anything. How am I supposed to know she doesn't want to have sex? That makes me a rapist does it? I'm supposed to be able to read her mind? That means most men must be rapists then? This is ridiculous. I suppose if I don't call her again that I deserve to be accused of rape?
If a woman say no and takes my hands off her body when I get more intense with her, I will stop right away.
But when I am getting more physical with a girl and she doesn't do anything to stop me that's a green light as far as I can see.
I haven't tied her up, I have drugged her or taken her by force.
I've been with girls who just wanted to invite me in to watch a DVD and kiss and cuddle because they said they weren't ready to have sex yet.
But while we were cuddling and kissing I would start touching them and they would tell me to stop. So I would go back to cuddling and kissing again and then their resistance would decline that bit further I would go back to fondling them and this time they wouldn't want me to stop.
They might never have intended to have sex at the beginning of the night but before you know it we would be naked. Lots of women are stop start stop start and you have to stop in order to talk to them some more so they are emotionally ready to have sex.
If a woman point blank does not want to have sex and will not let me go further, then I just leave, kiss them goodbye and make sure they get home safe.
But they will often be willing to meet again and by the next night or after a few other nights they would be more open to have sex than the first time. I just keep pushing the boundaries.
As far as I can see if a woman comes back to yours or invites you back to hers she is open to sex as a long as a guy plays his cards right and doesn't step over the mark too soon.
If a woman did not want to have sex but let me have sex when there was plenty of opportunities to say no and to put a stop to it, then it couldn't possibly be assault or rape and I am not guilty of anything.

Dudess

snafuk35 wrote: »

So let me get this straight.
I have a girl back at my place and we are kissing and I put my hands on her breasts and her bum, I start kissing her neck, start undressing her and we end up having sex and she doesn't resist or say no or push my hands away or anything. How am I supposed to know she doesn't want to have sex?

Oh come on, that's really disingenuous. Obviously you'd get vibes if a woman doesn't want to have sex/is uncomfortable - the scenario you've described doesn't include any such thing.

That makes me a rapist does it? I'm supposed to be able to read her mind? That means most men must be rapists then? This is ridiculous. I suppose if I don't call her again that I deserve to be accused of rape?

No, no, no, and no. As you well know.

If a woman say no and takes my hands off her body when I get more intense with her, I will stop right away.

But we're talking about a woman making it clear she's not happy to do it, body language is surely enough, yet still feeling obliged to.

I've been with girls who just wanted to invite me in to watch a DVD and kiss and cuddle because they said they weren't ready to have sex yet.
But while we were cuddling and kissing I would start touching them and they would tell me to stop. So I would go back to cuddling and kissing again and then their resistance would decline that bit further I would go back to fondling them and this time they wouldn't want me to stop.
They might never have intended to have sex at the beginning of the night but before you know it we would be naked.

Seems in those scenarios you can't take no for an answer. You may eventually turn her on but I can't understand why you wouldn't just leave it when she first says no.

If a woman point blank does not want to have sex and will not let me go further, then I just leave, kiss them goodbye and make sure they get home safe.

You leave because you're not getting your hole? Lol.

BarackPyjama

Dudess wrote: »

You leave because you're not getting your hole? Lol.

Who says romance is dead? :eek:

snafuk35

Dudess wrote: »

Oh come on, that's really disingenuous. Obviously you'd get vibes if a woman doesn't want to have sex/is uncomfortable - the scenario you've described doesn't include any such thing.

But I have been reading the posts here on this thread and quite clearly there are women who are petrified but the man took it that they were open to sex. If the woman didn't want to have sex but the man was given no indication that she was not interested - she didn't pull away when he touched and she didn't say no - then can you blame him for having sex with her? I can understand a woman regretting having sex with a man she didn't really want to but if he didn't know how she felt that's not his fault.

No, no, no, and no. As you well know.

The gist of some of the posts on this thread is that yes, the guy is a rapist and it is sexual assault when she gave in to sex but didn't say she didn't want to.

But we're talking about a woman making it clear she's not happy to do it, body language is surely enough, yet still feeling obliged to.

The posts seems to be saying that a woman will pretend because she is scared to say no. So a guy will be having sex thinking both he and her are enjoying it and her groans are groans of pleasure and be none the wiser.

Seems in those scenarios you can't take no for an answer. You may eventually turn her on but I can't understand why you wouldn't just leave it when she first says no.

In my experience women like to be pursued.
I might approach a woman and she tells me to f*ck off but I just turn it around and she ends up giving me her number and we end up going out. Lots of women will try to make excuses not to see you but you have to be smart enough to be persistant and persuade them otherwise. Finally in the bedroom she is ashamed of her body and is scared of her sexual feelings and of the unknown. I try to make a woman as comfortable as possible and in the end after much stopping and starting she gives into sex.
Most women put up some sort of a fight because they don't want to be seen to give in too easily but it's hardly rape or sexual assault if you turn them on and persuade them into bed.

You leave because you're not getting your hole? Lol.

I've often stopped, put my clothes back on and left right away, kissed her goodbye, told her no hard feelings and then next day she calls or texts me to give it another try.

Kimia

snafuk35 wrote: »

But I have been reading the posts here on this thread and quite clearly there are women who are petrified but the man took it that they were open to sex. If the woman didn't want to have sex but the man was given no indication that she was not interested - she didn't pull away when he touched and she didn't say no - then can you blame him for having sex with her? I can understand a woman regretting having sex with a man she didn't really want to but if he didn't know how she felt that's not his fault.



The gist of some of the posts on this thread is that yes, the guy is a rapist and it is sexual assault when she gave in to sex but didn't say she didn't want to.



The posts seems to be saying that a woman will pretend because she is scared to say no. So a guy will be having sex thinking both he and her are enjoying it and her groans are groans of pleasure and be none the wiser.



In my experience women like to be pursued.
I might approach a woman and she tells me to f*ck off but I just turn it around and she ends up giving me her number and we end up going out. Lots of women will try to make excuses not to see you but you have to be smart enough to be persistant and persuade them otherwise. Finally in the bedroom she is ashamed of her body and is scared of her sexual feelings and of the unknown. I try to make a woman as comfortable as possible and in the end after much stopping and starting she gives into sex.
Most women put up some sort of a fight because they don't want to be seen to give in too easily but it's hardly rape or sexual assault if you turn them on and persuade them into bed.



I've often stopped, put my clothes back on and left right away, kissed her goodbye, told her no hard feelings and then next day she calls or texts me to give it another try.

In almost all cases afaik the women initially said no and the man kept going. In his mind perhaps he was 'persuading her'. In hers, she's said no and doesn't want to go any further. Why is it not left at that?

You make a lot of assumptions - she's ashamed of her body and scared of her sexual feelings? Did she tell you that?

I find it very odd that you think women just 'give in' to sex.

snafuk35

In almost all cases afaik the women initially said no and the man kept going. In his mind perhaps he was 'persuading her'. In hers, she's said no and doesn't want to go any further. Why is it not left at that?

A lot of men have a fantasy where they can fast track to sex without the mushy romantic stuff. That's why prostitution was invented.
Many men are completely inept when it comes to romance and have no clue about human romantic and sexual rituals.
If a guy grabbed a woman hit her on the head and dragged her into bushes to have sex with her he is a rapist.
But if the same guy knew the right poetic things to say and the right romantic gestures and took her out for a meal or movie and acted like her dream man she would readily have sex with him.
Sadly women are mystery to many men and when they can't get sex they get extraordinarily angry. That is not the woman's fault. It is up to a man to make himself attractive. But for some men they are destined to be lonely and sex starved for life because they just will never get how women tick. So they turn to either prostitutes or rape or suicide I suppose.
It really is tragic how this understanding causes such needless misery.

You make a lot of assumptions - she's ashamed of her body and scared of her sexual feelings? Did she tell you that?

For most women their body image is a really big deal because let's face it women are judged on their appearance so its a big deal for her to be naked in bed with a man especially if the man just wants to screw her.

I find it very odd that you think women just 'give in' to sex.

This is just my personal opinion but I think a lot of women don't want to be seen as 'sluts' by other women or see themselves as a 'slut.' So if a guy can make girl feel less guilty about 'surrendering' or 'giving' or whatever you want to call it she will be more willing to have sex. A woman feels violated by a rapist or sexual attacker because he took no care about her feelings - a woman's vagina is not an appliance that a man can stick his penis into. The same guy could have taken the trouble to be romantic, to treat her right, to sweet her off her feet and make a heart flutter and then she would have willingly have had sex instead.

Wibbs

rainbow kirby wrote: »

Did you not read the part where it was stated that this is a support thread? If not, do have a read and think about it before posting again on this thread.

Did some people miss this post? For future reference any debate outside the support vibe will be deleted. If anyone wants to start a thread debating the ins and outs, then start it elsewhere, NOT on this thread. End of. Fin. Full stop and for our American influenced readers, Period. Thank you.


PS If I personally sniff anything within spitting distance of the usual PUA BS I will not be a happy camper. Call me an AFC* if you will, but that's how it goes.



*your PUA type will know what this means. They do love their acronyms.